yuzu - hardware

but right now, Apple & Intel have better compute stacks than AMD

Phenom II supports popcnt

lol

bro it's a 17 year old instruction

It didn't die

it can vote and drink

exio4

it can vote and drink

not in the land of the free

SSE4a includes it

11:41 PM

That bastard of a set includes it

Egdarska

not in the land of the free

it can go to war and die *

11:42 PM

happy now?

still one year away

what about gun ownership

though it can sign up now

exio4

what about gun ownership

that depends on state

It can vote here

some states you can own a gun at 16, but you can't buy it

i thought drinking age here was 16

so like a parent's gift

>parent's gift

11:43 PM

:glue:

funny thing, in california you have to be 21 to buy a handgun, but a rifle is fine at 18

is this something like "the founding fathers used rifles, but handguns are a modern invention, so we don't have to comply to their desires"

well, they changed that recently, now any gun is fine at 18, but that was the law for a while

exio4

is this something like "the founding fathers used rifles, but handguns are a modern invention, so we don't have to comply to their desires"

it's more about being concealable

11:45 PM

and the founding fathers had handguns, flintlocks are old

11:46 PM

So a phenom I can carry a rifle

germany has a drinking age of 16

11:46 PM

we could be cool like the germans and accept kids will get drunk

They end up rejecting nuclear energy, not worth it

exio4

germany has a drinking age of 16

is that only for drinks in public?

11:47 PM

i haven't met a german that didn't get beer at home before 14

Egdarska

is that only for drinks in public?

buying

ah yeah

11:48 PM

we like to pretend we can control kids here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_in_Germany

Alcohol laws in Germany

The German laws regulating alcohol use and sale are mostly focused on youth protection. In contrast to many other countries, legislation is relatively lenient and not designed to keep young people away from alcohol, but rather intended to teach them an appropriate approach to alcohol consumption, which is reflected by one of the lowest drinking ...

11:48 PM

11:49 PM

buying/drinking vodka is 18, buying beer is 16, drinking beer is 14

lol Although the government has planned stricter regulations several times, the alcohol industry is politically influential and has prevented their implementation.

11:49 PM

forget about the industry, try telling germans they can't drink any time they want

GoldenX86_64

Phenom II boomers in suicide watch

i have it installed on a single core single thread celeron non d cpu system, hehe

12:02 AM

for now

12:04 AM

system has half gb ram too, with some of it eaten up by the integrated graphics

iirc that's a single core sandy

despite those older celerons having only one core and one thread, the ones released later on were indeed still 64bit capable

GoldenX86_64

iirc that's a single core sandy

nope. pentium d/core 2 era

shit, hope it's core 2

12:05 AM

wait, 450

12:06 AM

yeah it's core 2

12:06 AM

conroe die, 512kb of cache

but yeah, basically sort of like a 775 pentium 4 but without the ht and less cache, but still 64bit barely

12:06 AM

otherwise yeah, tech itself based on core 2 ish or whatever

its's 1/4 of a q6600

the 478 celeron and celeron d cpus only support 32bit, but the 775 ones make it possible

and can even run ddr3

in fact, the 478 pentium 4 ht, despite having it's 2 threads and such, is still only 32bit too, you have to go to a 775 pentium 4 ht to get 64bit

i built gentoo on one of those

12:08 AM

with global -Os

12:08 AM

just because

12:08 AM

@Pharynx guess ram use without a DE (edited)

GoldenX86_64

@Pharynx guess ram use without a DE (edited)

64 megs

that was with xcfe

12:09 AM

9-11mb

sus range

reminds me of my most pitiful linux systems here, hehe

12:13 AM

imagine a single core cpu 200mhz, then imagine having literally only 32mb (not gb) or storage ENTIRELY

exio4

next month you'll be buying a server for the pcie lanes, then you'll be buying your own datacenters gpu

I just ordered a second (used) RTX 4060 Ti 16GB off eBay for $413 after taxes.

then imagine finding a version of linux that would not only fit on that storage, but also have full color, a browser, audio, and built in basic apps

GoldenSun3DS

I just ordered a second (used) RTX 4060 Ti 16GB off eBay for $413 after taxes.

the AI card

12:14 AM

useless at anything else, but fantastic for AI

basically they were old thin clients i converted into stantalone systems, heh. the only os i could fit on their internal docs/doms was dsl, damn small linux, older distro now that has newer better replacements, but still unrivaled in it's small size.

GoldenSun3DS

I just ordered a second (used) RTX 4060 Ti 16GB off eBay for $413 after taxes.

sick

damn small linux is the only os that can meet those requirements above while also fitting on storage under 128mb like that

12:15 AM

there are many other os and linux versions that can fit on such storage, but you always will have to give up some thing, like gui, or browser, or audio, or etc

12:15 AM

dsl barely lets it happen

GoldenX86_64

the AI card

I considerd an RTX 3060 12GB as the second GPU. It was cheaper cost-per-VRAM, but I'd have to worry about mismatched VRAM capacity (getting LLM settings correct) and also I'm not sure if the cache on the 40 series makes a difference.

12:18 AM

I'm still not even sure if the extra cache on the 5800X3D makes a difference compared to a normal Ryzen CPU, or a CPU with more cores. For the models I'm running, it's definitely putting a very large amount of the processing on the CPU/RAM.

if you hammer RAM, cache will help a lot

I'm not sure exactly how LLMs work, but I figure it could go either way. If it's constantly needing to read/write and access the ENTIRE model size that is stored in RAM, then cache theoretically won't help at all. But if it needs a small amount to be constantly read/written much more than the rest of the model size, then the cache could help.

12:31 AM

There don't seem to be benchmarks for CPU, RAM and GPUs for AI LLMs online, at least that I could find. Like 5800X3D vs 5950X or 3000MHz RAM vs 4000MHz RAM, etc

gtx950

https://www.reddit.com/r/yuzu/s/17cR5UiY5A

From the yuzu community on Reddit

Explore this post and more from the yuzu community

1

2:46 AM

No, I refuse

GoldenSun3DS

I considerd an RTX 3060 12GB as the second GPU. It was cheaper cost-per-VRAM, but I'd have to worry about mismatched VRAM capacity (getting LLM settings correct) and also I'm not sure if the cache on the 40 series makes a difference.

3060 is faster for most workloads, LLMs are specifically bandwidth bound, so very well optimized code would have been a bit of a "you have to benchmark specific models" though

I doubt the 3060 would be faster if you're running models too large to fit into VRAM.

yeah, it won't

(edited)

Get 24GB or bust

I don't think you need that much VRAM for AI busts

Nvidia better start putting a minimum of 16GB on xx70's from now on.

best i can do is 12

3:21 AM

must be cool to be as powerful as nvidia, downgrade your next gen with 2/3 of the previous gen's lower tier card worth of vram and not even suffer a dent in lost sales

Hardware Theory Question: If I picked 10 random popular games, set all the settings to high 1080p and capped fps at 60, which would lower tier or higher tier cards get the hottest? (edited)

lower tier cards

7:42 AM

they'd work harder

7:43 AM

a >300W card that could do 1440p120 would be chilling at 1080p60

is it as simple as, a function of avg fps in gaming benchmarks by the TDP? (edited)

7:46 AM

basically fps per TDP watt?

Owen

is it as simple as, a function of avg fps in gaming benchmarks by the TDP? (edited)

no

7:46 AM

it also depends on the gpu architecture

7:47 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HznATcpWldo&t=176s for example, big RDNA3 chips are broken at this

optimum

AMD really need to fix this.

as in, high temps per fps or low temps? @exio4

7:48 AM

because im trying to design a PC that remains as silent as possible, and i dont want 3060 fanless gpu, so im looking to buy something that i can run med settings w/o fans turning on

7:48 AM

i know big factor is heatsink and other stuff, but just from a which gpu to buy perspective im curious imma look into undervolting too (edited)

Owen

as in, high temps per fps or low temps? @exio4

no, because the key here is that you need power management that works, and RDNA3 has that broken, Ada lovelace is great at that though

1

imagine if nvidia gave us control over it

7:49 AM

man i would burn so many cards

if you want to get an "efficient low-power gpu", your best choice: 40 series, pick a 4070 Super, and cap the TDP to 130W or so

1

aight ill strongly consider that, thanks

7:50 AM

do you know off top of head, for ~40% reduction in tdp how much % does fps go down (edited)

Owen

do you know off top of head, for ~40% reduction in tdp how much % does fps go down (edited)

depends on architecture too

7:52 AM

exio is gonna rant about efficiency in about 5 seconds

7:53 AM

but basically, high end gpus tend to overshoot and have stupid power limits, you can lower power draw by 30% and lose only like 15% performance

1

on Ada, the "rule", the 4070 non-Super is a 200W gpu, can go down to 150-160W without losing almost any performance (outside of cyberpunk path traced) 130-150W is the range where you start losing a bit of performance in normal games

1

Egdarska

but basically, high end gpus tend to overshoot and have stupid power limits, you can lower power draw by 30% and lose only like 15% performance

all Ada gpus lol

7:53 AM

Ada is reverse-RDNA rn

because it works?

AMD ships the 7800 XT underclocked basically, and you can crank the TDP and get massive performance gains

7:54 AM

it'll use 400W yes

i would say ampere too, unless the 3060 mobile is an outlier

but :glue:

i showed you the results

Egdarska

i would say ampere too, unless the 3060 mobile is an outlier

mobile chips are all underclocked, and Ampere has the Vmax quite high

7:54 AM

on desktop that doesn't really happen

30xx used to overdraw way more than needed especially on spikes, ADA you can get the same performance with a lower core voltage than recommended. (edited)

80w to 95 was like a 20% performance improvement, and 95w to 130 was like 5-6%

oh, btw, do not undervolt Ada

No need to truthfully

though i didn't test with a game using every feature, so no rt and dlss

It just doesn't draw as much as Ampere.

if you do get a 40 series gpu, undervolting is cringe unless you specifically tune the voltage for specific frequencies

7:56 AM

an overall undervolt is gonna have clock stretching

i don't have time to mess with gpus now, i'll just run oc scanner if possible and let it rest

7:56 AM

but even that is not something i'd do anymore

Egdarska

though i didn't test with a game using every feature, so no rt and dlss

yeah, RT is the biggest way to see gains in power

good thing nvidia scammed me and put 6GB in it so i can't use RT anyway

exio4

if you do get a 40 series gpu, undervolting is cringe unless you specifically tune the voltage for specific frequencies

so i shouldnt undervolt?

7:57 AM

oh is undervolting and setting tdp cap difernt?

Owen

oh is undervolting and setting tdp cap difernt?

yes

1

I just run my 4070 TI stock and it does basically the same as all the 4070 TI supers.

tdp cap is just the card uses less power

I would have gained 2.7fps in cyberpunk from my 4070TI to a TI super.

undervolting means you're telling the card to try to run at a higher speed at a lower voltage

7:57 AM

which usually means you're making your shit unstable

7:58 AM

but it runs gta5 lol

Not all GPU's are like that egd.

clock stretching is how gpus handle that nowadays

OldManKain

Not all GPU's are like that egd.

modern ones are

Egdarska

modern ones are

no

But yes, undervolting is much more usefull on CPU's over GPU's

if you undervolt amd cpus or ada lovelace you see clock stretching first

7:58 AM

after a point it breaks yes

If you undervolt Alder Lake you gain Frequency (makes no sense) (edited)

but my point is, is it worth it, compared to old gpus for example?

but if you are missing the voltage by a bit, it'll just say it does 2.2GHz and run at 1.8GHz internally and perform like 1.8

in old gpus you could undervolt and see real gains

it is if you tune the Vf by hand, manually

3080 you could see minimal loss on undervolt.

8:00 AM

And undervolt like what was it to like .920 with 0 performance loss.

exio4

but if you are missing the voltage by a bit, it'll just say it does 2.2GHz and run at 1.8GHz internally and perform like 1.8

clock stretching is fun

8:00 AM

>ah yes my gpu does over 2GHz!

8:00 AM

benchmarks showing shit performance:

i prefer the old "it's stable, i gained 30fps"

8:01 AM

8:02 AM

or the sequel "it only crashes in dumb synthetic benchmarks, it's stable for gaming"

Nah, it has to be stable in every synthetic or it's not worth.

Egdarska

or the sequel "it only crashes in dumb synthetic benchmarks, it's stable for gaming"

based

OldManKain

Nah, it has to be stable in every synthetic or it's not worth.

what about real games

I saw a guy today rant about his 4090 + 7800x3d 26K 3Dmark Timespy score, I'm over here on a 12700k 4070 TI with a 24K score going, hmmm okay.

rdna2 is funny, raster could take a huge undervolt sometimes

I can barely OC at all in CoD without the game exploding

8:03 AM

It’s made like garbage

run RT workloads and you need to overvolt lol

Moonlacer

It’s made like garbage

??

Moonlacer

It’s made like garbage

?

Alder/raptor undervolt, Raptor refresh you are fucked.

if it doesn't crash without overclock but crashes with an overclock it's not an issue with the software

8:05 AM

mgs5 was the same way, it's really hard to make it crash even with weird mods, but a shitty overclock will crash it 100% of the time

My computer is bored right now playing destiny 2. Everything maxed with 150% scaling.

Not a very hard game to run nowadays

I'm also undervolted from 1.350 to 1.245.

Egdarska

if it doesn't crash without overclock but crashes with an overclock it's not an issue with the software

In CoDs case, yes kek

And overclocked from 4.7 all core to 5.0 all core

It will crash regardless, but more frequently when OCed (edited)

I was told Alder Lake at 90c was fine.

8:08 AM

I never go over 77c

Moonlacer

It will crash regardless, but more frequently when OCed (edited)

try overvolting (edited)

8:09 AM

if it doesn’t crash ur gpu is defective

Nah, it’s the game

8:10 AM

Pretty sure it’s all in the VRAM sensitivity

hmm why won't afterburner work with destiny 2

8:11 AM

It will crash more frequently if you alt tab out, and it doesn’t even matter the vendor

Works on AMD™️

8:15 AM

Through Adrenalin

I love my 4070 TI draws about 80w less than my 3070 TI

I don’t really take power draw into account when buying GPUs

Moonlacer

I don’t really take power draw into account when buying GPUs

we can tell

8:16 AM

smh

I usually don't but I like to stress test my system since I will leave it on 24/7

8:17 AM

Disable sleep, disable hibernate, power shell get rid of hibernate etc etc.

8:17 AM

Only thing that hibernates on my PC is the monitors.

Wow, I don’t know why you would do that, though

8:17 AM

Unless it’s your NAS or something

Moonlacer

Wow, I don’t know why you would do that, though

My 3570K at 4.5ghz lasted 10years being on 99% of the time, Hoping Alder Lake can do it too. (edited)

I don’t trust Windows to not break things leaving it idle (edited)

Windows won't break shit if you disable all the bullshit.

8:18 AM

Powershell is your friend.

>not sleeping

windows sleep = windows fucks your PC up.

why

8:25 AM

you arent on amd

It can do some weird shit with big+little. (edited)

i still haven't had windows cause issues when sleeping

8:27 AM

i feel like i'm missing out

I haven't let windows sleep since 2008

8:27 AM

So who knows if it's safe now.

8:28 AM

It's like how windows won't clear it's state on reboot. Gotta shut that shit down for 10 minutes still in 2024

8:28 AM

Or hold shift

8:28 AM

During reboot.

exio says sleep on windows is worse than using linux for video editing, but he has a mac so his opinion is kinda worthless tbh

We will all be on linux before 2030

lol, this is the decade of desktop linux

Windows 12 inc for processors with AI chips, windows 13 inc online only.

any year now

8:29 AM

wayland is the future

Egdarska

exio says sleep on windows is worse than using linux for video editing, but he has a mac so his opinion is kinda worthless tbh

its still usable

8:29 AM

if your hardware combo isn't broken

8:30 AM

(AM5 / Zen4 issue for example)

Last linux I used was redhat 5.1 like in 2000/2001 forgot which version showeq needed.

i can't wait to use linux with wayland and an amd gpu for gaming, and rocm for all my general uses

8:31 AM

this decade will be great

Zen4 is amazing as long as you get a chip without dual CCD's if not you need that xbox gamebar

8:31 AM

7800x3d or bust basically for AMD

8:31 AM

Who wants gamebar to control their schedular.

i can't wait for windows to make old cpus completely unusable ngl

8:33 AM

@exio4 is there any extension that all am4/am5 and newer intel cpus use that is newer than 2017?

avx2 already pushes most bulldozer chips out and a lot of intel chips

i want something that requires ryzen 1 at the very least

AVX2 almost

8:34 AM

there's only 1 AMD architecture before Zen1 w/ AVX2 support

8:35 AM

if you meant on the amd camp exclusively

Egdarska

i can't wait to use linux with wayland and an amd gpu for gaming, and rocm for all my general uses

so true

OldManKain

Zen4 is amazing as long as you get a chip without dual CCD's if not you need that xbox gamebar

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/18vkjuy/why_arent_we_all_talking_about_the_am5_memory/

From the Amd community on Reddit: Why aren't we all talking about t...

Explore this post and more from the Amd community

8:35 AM

sleep is broken on AM5

8:35 AM

8:36 AM

maybe it isn't broken on the monolithic chips lol

Like I said I haven't used sleep since 2008, Sleep was broken back then on both Intel and AMD

8:37 AM

Windows Vista FTL

it wasn't on mac

8:38 AM

hol up

8:39 AM

they released excavator cpus for am4?

Egdarska

they released excavator cpus for am4?

yes

8:39 AM

I know of some IRL

8:39 AM

I actually wanna buy that rig one day

8:39 AM

just to experience the worst of AM4

bruh why?

8:40 AM

i mean why did they do it

8:40 AM

if they wanted super low budget am4 cpus they could have just used rejected ryzen3 chips with 2 cores

8:41 AM

would probably perform better

they needed APUs and Zen1 apus weren't ready

8:41 AM

you know Zen1 was like... buggy as fuck, right?

8:41 AM

they released it because the company was months away from bankruptcy not because they wanted

yeah, but lawdy, excavator apus

Bartlett lake the sleeper gamers CPU?

8:42 AM

12 Pcores with HT.

what?

You haven't heard about bartlett lake yet?

i dont follow rumors that much no

Not a rumor

8:43 AM

I won't post rumor's.

:glue:

Egdarska

yeah, but lawdy, excavator apus

zen1 has a major security bug btw

https://videocardz.com/newz/rumored-intel-bartlett-lake-s-targeting-network-and-edge-cpu-series-first-might-launch-with-12-p-core-variant

WhyCry

Rumored Intel "Bartlett Lake-S" targeting Network and Edge CPU seri...

Intel Bartlett Lake-S for NEX systems first, consumer variants not ruled out According to Benchlife, a site known for leaking various Intel roadmaps, the rumored Bartlett Lake-S is indeed coming, but the initial focus will be on the Network and Edge CPU series. The site reiterates the rumor that Bartlett Lake-S will be using the […]

8:43 AM

Okay rmored.

if you divide by 0 you get the last valid result

But it's real.

8:43 AM

I used to work for Intel.

exio4

if you divide by 0 you get the last valid result

i saw that

not even a minute damn

Egdarska

i saw that

its funny

Videocardz calls it a rumor, I know it is fact.

8:44 AM

You can even look me up on linkdin I worked for intel for 10+ years.

8:44 AM

In Hellsburrito Oregon

i dont know ur name bro

i cant look you up on linkedin

8:45 AM

its fine tho i trust u

If you knew how to type 1 name into google you would find my real name everywhere.

1

8:45 AM

I don't hide behind my handle/monikor/gamertag

oh

8:46 AM

i just have my socials like github linked to my account

OldManKain is linked to Rich Hall everywhere.

i love how my id is public

Except tiktok and the other stupid picture website.

knowing i have a degree is enough to find it

8:47 AM

#exposed by the government

I have a bachelors in RF engineering.

8:47 AM

Also ex military intelligence.

8:47 AM

But suck at coding.

8:48 AM

The superbowl broke me, I'm drinking too much.

im not american i dont get that

is that why i'm getting so many football ads?

Yes

did the 49ers lose?

I might actually give up my citizenship and go move in with my family in okinawa. U.S. won't let me have dual citizenship due to being a military vet.

Egdarska

did the 49ers lose?

Yes in OT

good

That hurts.

i don't watch football but i do like watching san francisco lose

Hey I used to live in north marin county SF.

8:51 AM

Got my first job at SEGA.

8:51 AM

Still have my ugly Sega Game Professional Fleece vest they gave us.

the only time i'd cheer for sf is when they play the raiders

My teams were chosen by my grandfather for taking me to their games in their home fields.

@exio4 we recently had flooding all last week, a tornado warning, and a 5.3 earthquake 10 minutes ago

8:58 AM

we just need fire season to start again for the full team

Egdarska

@exio4 we recently had flooding all last week, a tornado warning, and a 5.3 earthquake 10 minutes ago

Big Island?

san diego

Egdarska

@exio4 we recently had flooding all last week, a tornado warning, and a 5.3 earthquake 10 minutes ago

yoooo

What, an EQ on WC? I'm still on the west coast just left CA.

yeah, epicenter was around centro, near the border

There it is. 5.3 12:42AM

9:07 AM

Shit didn't realize it's 1am

9:08 AM

Fucking alcohol

9:08 AM

can't sleep till I finish this bottle.

Egdarska

@exio4 we recently had flooding all last week, a tornado warning, and a 5.3 earthquake 10 minutes ago

are you ok tho

yeah, we get earthquakes all the time

9:26 AM

i'm sick right now and i'm skipping work tomorrow, but that's unrelated

I blame Von Sigewolf

Egdarska

i'm sick right now and i'm skipping work tomorrow, but that's unrelated

did u use fsr2 lately

exio4

did u use fsr2 lately

i don't think fsr2 is so bad it would make me physically ill

10:13 AM

but also no

FSR2 is the best thing ever on low end cards without DLSS

10:14 AM

Imagine using NIS on a GTX 1660

Imagine trying to use NIS on anything pre-ampere...... (it's broken by the way) and has been for 3 years. (edited)

NVIDIA: buy our 500 bucks 128 bit Ada card or die

10:16 AM

Don't mind it's slower than a 3060ti

Nvidia "We aren't a gaming GPU company anymore"

10:17 AM

Battlemage is 4070 speed with shitty drivers.

NVIDIA "AI shills will sell it for us anyway"

AMD... STEP YO ASS BACK ON THE GPU FLOOR.

10:17 AM

It's getting bad, everything is AI now.

AMD is dead, they retreated to mid end only again (edited)

ARL 8p+16e no HT +2 AI and a new fake hyperthreading.

10:18 AM

I hope Zen5 DT is worth.

10:18 AM

ARL leaks only showing 2-5% over RPL.

I hope platform costs lower, AM5 is still stupidly expensive

And now PTL is being held back with 0 HT no AVX10 wtf is intel doing.

Saving money kek

I so wish I still worked at intel so I could see this shit.

Money that isn't spent on Intel drivers

ADL (12th gen) = shit we can't finish RPL in time, fuck it ship it how it is.

Man at least 5 people with NVIDIA asking for framegen after the article AMD hit it good with AFMF

No one understands 12th-14th gen are all on the same architecture names don't matter.

12th gen, the new skylake

10:20 AM

"We changed the cache size so it's a new arch" Intel

Lets just keep refreshing sandy bridge from 30xx to 40xx to 4xxx and beyond.

10:21 AM

4760K

10:21 AM

In reality that is what Intel should have done with 14th gen.

10:21 AM

Should have been like 13770K

10:21 AM

for the 13700k SKU.

10:22 AM

14th gen is almost as big as a rip off as 9th or 11th.

10:23 AM

8700k 6 cores 12 threads. 9700k 8 cores 8 threads and worse in real world performance.

13th gen is too, any mid to low end offer is just alder

13th gen to me is actually worth an upgrade from 12th.

We still lack avx512

It's 14th that is worthless if you have 13th

10:23 AM

I have avx512 on a 12700KF

10:24 AM

Have to disable e-cores in bios and enable it though.

If you get a real 13th gen yeah, totk here loves 2mb per p core

10:24 AM

But i3 and i5 users get alder, 1.25mb

Yeah forgot about that.

10:24 AM

I don't purchase anything below 700k

Even the 13400 and 13600 is a lottery

Well now its what core ultra 7

10:24 AM

or core 7 plus

10:25 AM

Core 7 look we have alder lake stuff in our meteor lake line which we say AMD does and call it snake oil.

10:26 AM

Can AMD and Intel just fucking name their processor like (Processor generation) *(Computer Power) done.

10:26 AM

Why am I only getting 10fps in TotK I have an I7

Kek

10:27 AM

Can't wait for the ultra 7 complaining

Which ultra?

10:27 AM

Actually only 7 and 9 have ultra

10:27 AM

5 has regular and plus.

10:27 AM

5 = xx400 - xx600.

What a naming mess

7 = xx700 = xx800 (if it existed).

10:28 AM

9 = xx900 - xx900KS basically.

10:29 AM

That is desktop naming.

10:29 AM

Laptop naming is already broken

10:29 AM

Core 115H

10:29 AM

Core 115T

10:29 AM

They should have just said F it and done xx100=900ks for the next 80+ years.

Poor people that don't follow this

Hey remember bigger the number the better.

10:32 AM

Like my ex wife. I got her a 6800GT, after our divorce her new man got her a 9200. (edited)

10:32 AM

But the number is bigger.

10:33 AM

Why my games no work no more.

1

10:37 AM

I feel so liberated right now, I'm not being yelled at for reporting issues to Yuzu.

10:38 AM

And cheats VM is now ready for the future.

Imagine getting flak for reporting bugs, damn

I got shit on for helping Your team, when I was apart of the other team.

10:47 AM

Then again I got shit on here, when my edizon SE cheats wouldn't work here 2 years ago also popkirby

(edited)

My dream GPU: RTX4070SUPER, with giant heatsink supported by socketing the GPU into 2-3 slots PCIE slots, fanless w/ optional silent fans, completely powered by PCIE since it can socket into 2-3 of them (edited)

4070 super comes in single slot

10:48 AM

Just not FE

no i mean, it sockets into two or three PCIE sockets, on the motherboard (edited)

No, I don't want SLI back.

10:49 AM

We already had those cards with SLI onboard, btw takes 2 pciex slots.

its not multiple GPUs, its just for mechanical support and to provide power to the GPU

10:49 AM

itd be a godsend for silent/fanless builds

Sounds like you want a 3060 6gb

And a pain to find compatible boards

10:50 AM

Pcie locations aren't fixed

1

GPU's have advanced so far the only MOBO manufacturer that makes a Power slot on the Mobo is ASUS.

OldManKain

Sounds like you want a 3060 6gb

just not powerful enough for me :/

Power connectors on the back sounds like a cool idea to solve this

10:51 AM

Or an extra slot at the end of the pcie for power

I'm on a 4070 TI with a single rail from my Corsair rm850x

10:51 AM

Then again corsair v3/v4 put out 288watts per rail.

or just increase the voltage supplied by the PCIe slot

Spec is 150w per rail.

10:51 AM

Not rail

even putting the power socket on the side would be better than top (the smallest face, oppisite the IO) (edited)

Per pciex connector should be 150w a piece.

10:52 AM

But corsair (also known as seasonic) does 288w per pciex 8pin (edited)

1

10:52 AM

Thats how you can run a 4090 + 13900KS on a RM850X.

wow thats really cool i didnt know that

It depends on the PSU manufacturor

10:53 AM

Corsair/Seasonic, and EVGA/Superflower both do 288w per pciex 8-pin. (edited)

10:54 AM

Even though spec is 150

Good quality wiring

This is what you can run on corsair v3/v4 with their proprietary 2x pciex8 to 12vhpwr.

10:55 AM

even the 850e which is bronze can do a 4090

10:56 AM

These are also all paired with a 13900k for these results.

10:57 AM

I have this but haven't used it yet.

10:58 AM

I'm literally running a single Pciex 8pin with the baby cable off the end into a 2 to 1 12vhpwr Nvidia adapter.

10:59 AM

This is what I'm using on my ASUS TUF 4070 TI OC

example of a more popular game running pretty good and without issues on the firepro w4100 there...

OldManKain

Sounds like you want a 3060 6gb

Sounds terrible.

GoldenX86_64

NVIDIA: buy our 500 bucks 128 bit Ada card or die

Wait for 96-bit $600 Blackwell GPU SunglassesFluent

OldManKain

I have this but haven't used it yet.

why you didn't use the one from corsair ? , i have this cable didn't melt on me thank god but i have 4070ti maybe when i upgrade to 4090 i will burn the house we'll see

Whoresair

5:13 PM

The 4070 Ti won't draw enough current over the pins to melt the connector @takanome9104

5:13 PM

The issue is the connector is poorly designed so doesn't mate properly during casual installation. The worst connector introduced in the consumer space as long as I've been messing with PCs (since the mid-90s).

5:14 PM

Even the flat molex connector was better than the horse shit that is the 12/16-pin PCIe connector.

yeah they need to ship the new cards with 2 plugs 12vhpwr

So, 4060/70/Ti owners are just as likely to not correctly mate the connectors, but those GPUs don't draw enough current for that to be an issue. Which is why almost all melted RTX 40 GPUs are 4090s and, to a lesser extent, 4080s.

5:18 PM

They need to use the molex mini-fit or whatever it's called pin standard. So the same size as current PCIe 6/8-pins, but with let's say 12 pins + 4 sense pins (?) and rated for 600W, same as the currentl 12VHPWR standard which uses needle-like pins. That'd cover all forseeable desktop CPUs. (edited)

5:19 PM

Basically the issue is the high current is melting connectors that are so thin that their contact area with the receptacle is much smaller than with the larger pins used in the PCIe 6/8-pin connector. (edited)

5:19 PM

tl;dr: Nvidia's fault for using it, then Intel's fault for adding it to the PCIe 5.0 spec for PSUs.

who tf makes a connector that doesn't click into place

6:05 PM

an assh*le that's who

6:05 PM

i felt stupid as hell plugging my 4080s in

OldManKain

Corsair/Seasonic, and EVGA/Superflower both do 288w per pciex 8-pin. (edited)

Oh snap. So I could run my 2080 with a single plug? That would save a bit of case clutter. (Superflower Leadex III 850W)

GoldenX86_64

Man at least 5 people with NVIDIA asking for framegen after the article AMD hit it good with AFMF

I hate NVidia, too, but it's not the gamers' fault that NVidia is greedy. I wouldn't even have dual 4060 Ti 16GB if I wasn't wanting to do AI LLMs. I'd still be using my A770 16GB, which I'm still trying to get rid of.

6:43 PM

Is NVidia's frame gen proprietary and not letting just anyone add it into a game or something like that?

DLSS is not compatible with GPL licences

6:47 PM

Plus motion vectors and all that that games don't provide

Mango9999

example of a more popular game running pretty good and without issues on the firepro w4100 there...

When it comes to emulation, I'm a full speed absolutist. It needs to be 90%+ at 90%+ of the time for me to consider it playable, unless it has a variable frame rate. 45FPS in a normal game is good, but when the target is 60FPS, that's 75% speed and running in a bit of slow motion. It's just not fun to play in even a little bit of slow motion, although modern emulators don't tend to have the irritating issue of the music being slowed down as well.

6:52 PM

And I'm someone that has no issue playing cloud gaming at latency of 70ms on 4G mobile data.

oh any person can have their own opinion on what they like or not, that's totally fine.

I would honestly rather play an emulated game with the full speed target reduced to 30FPS than play at 45FPS at 75% motion.

but yeah, the example above is fully playable and even comparable to the system itself to some degrees

Somewhat related: I was wondering why Wind Wake HD felt weird to me in Cemu the other day and I realized it was because it's locked at 30

is it? never played that version before

7:13 PM

i played the original on the console, which i believe was 30 too

7:13 PM

but after that i just used dolphin in recent years and forcing it higher one way or another

7:13 PM

in fact, even though that hd version exists, i still consider the gamecube version at 4k with dolphin and any other sharpening you can do to be just the best

7:14 PM

kind of a weird game to me too in a way because i do like it a lot, but it's hard to really go back and replay anymore, and just feels a bit boring every time i try now

Cemu gets it to 4k pretty easily, so it's likely comparable. I don't think they did much more than add some visual polish, though

Wide-screen sprites

7:39 PM

Good game to autoHDR

GoldenX86_64

DLSS is not compatible with GPL licences

I think you can still link to it

8:07 PM

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs

8:07 PM

yeah

https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA/commit/1b9ba2b2333746c5e2b05a2bf24fa6ec3828dcdf

Nobody expects the Red Team · vosen/ZLUDA@1b9ba2b

Too many changes to list, but broadly:

Remove Intel GPU support from the compiler
Add AMD GPU support to the compiler
Remove Intel GPU host code
Add AMD GPU host code
More device instruct...

8:32 PM

@Egdarska

8:32 PM

amd was funding it apparently but dropped out

8:33 PM

runtime to run unmodified cuda on amd

Oh nice, Cuda compat

8:50 PM

Why kill shintel tho

it's in the faq on the main page for zluda

Lol, AMD chad at least

>Realistically, it's now abandoned and will only possibly receive updates to run workloads I am personally interested in (DLSS).

9:12 PM

"I want DLSS on AMD" but they actually coded a compatibility layer to make it work

Dude actually worked

9:15 PM

Would be funny to see DLSS FG on AMD, we'll see how heavy it is compute wise

I like DLSS but I welcome FSR3 frame gen on my 20-series card

On what game?

Witcher 3 is probably the best example for me. I can only get low 40s with all of the ray tracing turned on, but the frame gen mod gets me to a solid 60

9:17 PM

By contrast, Alan Wake 2 is too heavy for extra fake frames to be useful, and it performs better without it

Oh, the mods

9:17 PM

Wish more games were officially supported

1

9:17 PM

Last I checked there were only 2

Does the Avatar game support it? I didn't check

9:18 PM

That's another case of me owning it but not really doing more than using it as a test case. It came free with my CPU

9:19 PM

I think I threw the mod files into it, but might not have put them in the right folder, because I don't think it worked when I checked

deadlybydsgn

Does the Avatar game support it? I didn't check

yes

9:19 PM

but FSR3, officially, is uh

9:19 PM

cringe

9:19 PM

it forces you to use FSR2

I thought you could disable it in Forspoken and just leave the FG

no

9:20 PM

you have to use FSR2 as AA at least

That's the only game I have with FSR3

it's a software lock, AMD doesn't recognize the existence of other upscalers so they went out of their way (nearly) to make the experience worse for everybody

9:20 PM

on my steamdeck I very much prefer XeSS DP4a

Moonlacer

I thought you could disable it in Forspoken and just leave the FG

Now there's a game that was promptly forgotten about

It's a stuttery mess in the area I'm in so you can't even see the benefits of FG

IIRC the demo ran okay on my old 6800k/2080 combo, but the gameplay didn't click with me

No, it's not a very good game

it's alright iirc

No weapon variety for like the first half of the game

9:23 PM

And the constant dialogue between your character and the cuff is unbearable

9:23 PM

I will probably play the game with dialogue off if I ever finish it kek

9:24 PM

And it's very easy

9:24 PM

If you hold the dodge bind while moving you're basically just invincible

9:24 PM

It perfectly dodges nearly any attack

I'm okay with easy. I mostly care about good stories these days

It doesn't have a good story

but I do recall reviews trashing the dialogue too

so, if switch 2 is just switch architecture with better hardware, and allows for easy backwards compatibility, does that inherently make it easier to emulate? Or will new hardware/architecture say without backwards compatibility, be harder to emulate no matter what? I guess what I mean to say is, what will make emulation have to start from square 1? The hardware? or software? (edited)

11:40 PM

Is there a path that leads to switch 2 being easy to emulate/not require starting from square one?

The short answer: We shall see

12:20 AM

A hack will still be required, and after that it will depend on how much the CPU/GPU stuff has changed

it should be broken and emulated fairly quickly. the possibility of it not does exist, just is very small, and precedent nearly completely shows won't be the case. the things we already do know so far about it are good signs it will be sooner rather than later too. because there are aspects that people will be able to apply things they know now to right out the gate, and etc. as opposed to a brand new entirely different thing.

12:24 AM

even if it touts some new great security, and there are defenders trying to say that it might be different this time, or etc etc, there is just plain too much motivation to do so, and too many with the abilities to do so, and etc.

12:25 AM

and even if it's a situation like the switch where you have to have earlier models or other blocks down the road, won't matter, because it just needs one model to be hacked one time ever, that's it, all games are dumped essentially from here on out and emulation is off to the races, no matter what they lock down after it.

12:26 AM

i wouldn't be surprised actually if after a while we ended up with another "dolphin situation" where it's literally so similar and easy to do at a point, will just get tacked onto the current existing switch emulators, with no need for anyone to start any new emulators for it at all.

Nintendo will not let a hack like the V1 happen again

that's for sure

doesn't matter, some thing will

@Pharynx Have anything to add? smug

how tf do you think precedent applies here

12:53 AM

hos might be the most secure consumer-facing operating system currently in existence

12:53 AM

there are no useful software bugs, no kernel bugs, no secure monitor bugs, they are reusing the same stack

12:54 AM

the only chance you have is that nvidia fucked something up again and they didn't, they also added a crap ton of glitch resistance to orin

12:54 AM

will someone get into it? probably but not soon

12:54 AM

and that doesn't mean an exploit will ever be practical

12:55 AM

there is zero chance there will ever be a pure software exploit that is useful for homebrew or game dumping

exio4

amd was funding it apparently but dropped out

It's fine, rocm will be finished any day now

Yeah, tomorrow for sure

Pharynx

will someone get into it? probably but not soon

so you saying, i gotta get job at nintendo

the positive precedent is that people are absolutely fiendish about getting into nintendo's shit

1:10 AM

a lot of very smart people will be trying but that guarantees nothing

We can only hope nvidia fucks up again, they won't make the same mistake but could be a different one

1:14 AM

Vulnerability in the ethernet driver

@Pharynx have they isolated drivers

exio4

@Pharynx have they isolated drivers

iommu + nvservices is separated from everything

oh so its not viable

I miss the 3ds/wii days, the exploits got fucking wacky

i feel like on a security-first setup you basically have to rely on too many exploits to make it viable

1:17 AM

you need to like, break the hardware and software concurrently, i assume

1:17 AM

i feel like this is one of the reasons xbox won't get an exploit either, even though you technically can run your own code on it on dev mode

I thought that was mostly lack of interest

nah

1:19 AM

i mean, it does help xbox is irrelevant, but it's also that their system is much more secure than sony's

1:20 AM

even if you broke out of a game, you'd need to break out of the hypervisor, and there's a fuckton of things to go through for a proper jailbreak

exio4

i feel like on a security-first setup you basically have to rely on too many exploits to make it viable

on systems with total software security the better move is to get the hardware to run your code instead

Pharynx

on systems with total software security the better move is to get the hardware to run your code instead

what do you mean?

in switch v2's case, glitch the bootrom before any lockouts occur

oh

attack the chain of trust at the topmost link

i am hopeful

1:27 AM

DIY quantum computers to break nintendo keys

what is the issue with nvidia's

1:58 AM

unironically

1:59 AM

RTX 2000 series came after GTX 1000, 3000 after 2000, 4000 after 3000

the only issue is the 1600 cards and they already forgot about those

1600 made sense tho

i mean we went from 900 to 1000 to 1600 to 2000 to 3000 (edited)

2:05 AM

increments aren't adding up

it was turing so better than pascal, but gtx, so they used an in between number

SadSinglePringle

i mean we went from 900 to 1000 to 1600 to 2000 to 3000 (edited)

this is a change in how they increment things

2:06 AM

but there's still a bigger number better line that is "100% clear"*

exio4

it was turing so better than pascal, but gtx, so they used an in between number

why not 1500?

*almost always

Egdarska

why not 1500?

who knows

also

2:06 AM

i'm just saying

it was a one-off architecture anyways

4070 ti super

2:07 AM

and then you have the aibs with the

i don't even know how amd's card naming works

yeah fair, ti super is wack

Egdarska

i don't even know how amd's card naming works

5700 XT, 6700 XT, 7700 XT

2:07 AM

they're "sane" but started at 5000 and will have to fix the fuck up soon

i just know the 7900xtx is supposed to be the best

2:07 AM

but it's still a midrange card

nvidia still has like a decade to get its numbers together

Egdarska

but it's still a midrange card

look man, that's different

2:07 AM

it is their best

PNY GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16GB XLR8 Gaming VERTO EPIC-X RGB Overclocked

2:07 AM

like

2:08 AM

what does that even mean at that point

most of these aren't NVIDIA's fault lol

no i get that

2:08 AM

just

yeah those are oem names

aibs go crazy

Not exclusive to pc hardware market tbh

XLR8 is a ben10 reference fr

ans they usually mean something within the oem naming

exio4

XLR8 is a ben10 reference fr

that's exactly what i was thinking lol

2:08 AM

are you a ben 10 fan Exio?

evga had the best naming

i've not watched the reboot

2:09 AM

but i did watch the whole main show like a year ago

2:09 AM

@SadSinglePringle ^ re: ben10

nice

2:09 AM

i haven't watched the reboot either

2:10 AM

but i've watched all the og series

Super ti sounds horrible

2:10 AM

Mx is still a mess

MX is dead

super tie

And quadro cards are impossible to understand (edited)

true that

the ti cards should just be xxx5

quadro cards got fucked when they had two generations back to back with the same letter

4075 super

Egdarska

the ti cards should just be xxx5

4070 sounds much nicer tho

or the other way around idc

Also, DLSS naming is terrible

"RX 580", "RX five-eighty" "4070 Super", "forty-seventy Super" "ryzen 3600" , "ryzen thirty-six hundred" all of those sound neat

3.5, but framegen is not guaranteed

lol

i have no idea how to call them in spanish

GoldenX86_64

3.5, but framegen is not guaranteed

?

2:13 AM

that's a hardware feature

nvidia shouldn't have done 3.5 ever

Erre equis quinientos ochenta

Egdarska

that's a hardware feature

No?

Cuarenta setenta súper

they should have just had different names for the tech

guys i bought a laptop but windows isn't doing hardware av1 encoding

DLSS

GoldenX86_64

Erre equis quinientos ochenta

i say 5 80

DLRR

2:13 AM

DLFG

Cinco ochenta is fine

would clear up some confusion for the less tech literate

1

SadSinglePringle

they should have just had different names for the tech

they did

2:14 AM

frame generation is different from just dlss

2:14 AM

it's a subset of dlss

They are all under the DLSS umbrella though

NVIDIA's frame gen is feature is locked through hardware, not versions, you still get Reflex from the frame gen requirements/suite

the issue is they shoved it all in one term

GoldenX86_64

They are all under the DLSS umbrella though

yes, that's what subset means

FG SR RR, all two letters (edited)

and then they have a numbering scheme that doesn't work

2:15 AM

3.5 means it could have rr but no fg or worse fg no rr

2:15 AM

then you have dlss "3" games without fg

2:15 AM

or rr

It's exactly like USB, you have no clue of what you get

yeah, because that's the number of the dlss version

every component has a version now, and they're all up around 3.5

Nvidia named USB, confirmed

though i do agree they should force publishers to use the whole subset

if you have DLSS 3.5, and no RR/FG - you have the latest temporal upscaler

Problem is, nowhere you are told that's just SR

but then it becomes useless if the game doesn't use RT, because then you don't need RR

RR for SSR when

exio4

NVIDIA's frame gen is feature is locked through hardware, not versions, you still get Reflex from the frame gen requirements/suite

@GoldenX86_64 compile the OFA benchmark

2:16 AM

it's part of the encoder, and i can't test shit here

2:16 AM

turing doesn't have all the API shit

Not in my desktop PC, but I will be tomorrow for that night (edited)

2:17 AM

I have to fix my remote access

the OFA benchmark should be funny

ofa deez

the lower end cards do have lower OFA throughput

2:19 AM

because they clock the encoder lower

2:19 AM

but usually encoder clocks mean jack shit lol

2:20 AM

and 4070 Ti Super and up have dual encoders, dunno if they double up OFA

2:20 AM

but it might explain why FG on lower end cards is underwhelming at 4K

2:20 AM

either way, 4060 should still outperform 3090

exio4

"RX 580", "RX five-eighty" "4070 Super", "forty-seventy Super" "ryzen 3600" , "ryzen thirty-six hundred" all of those sound neat

"7900 XTX," = "Seventy-nine hundred Ex-Tee-Ex"

lol, i hadn't seen the performance comparison between the 7900xt and the 4070 super in cyberpunk

2:30 AM

@exio4 when are you changing to team red?

So many abreviations!

Egdarska

@exio4 when are you changing to team red?

why do u insult me like that

it's only 50% slower

2:31 AM

do they make a 7900 without letters? lol

no

i'd imagine it would be around 4050 performance, since losing just one X is 1/6 the performance

did you check phantom liberty path traced benchmarks

2:33 AM

iirc 7900 XTX is around 4070 performance there

i think it was rt overdrive

yeah "path tracing" (edited)

but at least the xtx only costs almost twice as much

Egdarska

but at least the xtx only costs almost twice as much

yes, nvidia offers twice the performance per dollar

i still don't get what amd's thought behidn the pricing was

raster

"we're cheaper than THEIR flagship"

it is just raster

our flagship is shit tho

xtx missed targets

exio4

it is just raster

cool, for the 20% of games that are fully raster now

it was supposed to be 30% faster

2:36 AM

than it actually was

that's just how amd goes

2:37 AM

"it was supposed to be ***"

Egdarska

cool, for the 20% of games that are fully raster now

well, yea but if you are a “upscaling denialist” + “rt is too demanding” person; you just think those are tech demos

2:37 AM

im excited to see the fsr2 vs dlss 1080p comparison

i've done that already, with re4

Upscaling denialist? kek

fsr2 is, uh

tim from hardware unboxed checked dlss at 1080p and said “its mid, sometimes its usable tho”

it's better than bilinear i guess

and hes checking fsr2 next

FSR2 on quality is just fine

2:38 AM

Granted I play at 4K

Moonlacer

Upscaling denialist? kek

you have to ignore the quality of upscaling to accept amds performance claims

i have used dlss at 1080p with 75% resolution and it's Fine™️

2:39 AM

fsr2 at any quality at 1080p is just worthless, just use the native taa upscaling

otherwise you already need to ask amd for a 50% performance advantage

exio4

you have to ignore the quality of upscaling to accept amds performance claims

It gives me about 20-30% more performance on Ratchet and Clank

Moonlacer

It gives me about 20-30% more performance on Ratchet and Clank

image quality

2:40 AM

check XeSS on Ratchet

2:41 AM

need an fsr2 version

its gonna look better and while performing worse (amd hardware moment), offer better IQ

Egdarska

need an fsr2 version

Yes, I've compared the two

there we go

Not noticeable in 4K apart from some shimmering differences, which appear differently with every method

yea now try fsr2 performance

also funny thing, fsr2 is just barely better than the native upscaling in re4, but that's only because the native taa is fucked

and dlss performance

exio4

yea now try fsr2 performance

No

2:42 AM

That's unreasonable

Moonlacer

No

this is what makes 4K viable on lower end gpus

"4K"

fsr is useless once you upgrade your monitor

Moonlacer

"4K"

and? a 4K tv or monitor can be had for cheap

2:43 AM

the fact that dlss is fine and fsr2 is useless is an amd L here

2:44 AM

4k + dlss performance still looks better than 1080p native

2:44 AM

and if we bring 1080p native, DLAA is the best TAA rn

2:45 AM

for context, 1440p + dlss quality holds up and is rendering sub 1080p

2:45 AM

for 1080p like performance

Native resolution still wins octolingSip

I can force native dci 4k on my 3070

2:49 AM

It hardly holds itself together

Moonlacer

Native resolution still wins octolingSip

native resolution as a pure concept has been dead for like 12 years

2:50 AM

the pixels you ultimately push matter

2:50 AM

but 1440p => 4K with FSR1 + no AA would look worse than DLSS Balanced at 4K

2:50 AM

the quality of upscaling matters

2:50 AM

and before you say "oh-uh but upscaling is not native"

2:51 AM

games render shit at non-native resolutions all the time, in fact, Cyberpunk 2077 defaults to tier 2 VRS on VRS-capable GPUs

2:51 AM

even the render buffers that are native resolution aren't fully native resolution (edited)

2:51 AM

it does disable VRS on upscaling, funnily enough

2:52 AM

so DLAA is very demanding in cyberpunk 2077

@exio4 one of these is native resolution, the other is dlss quality

tbf

2:54 AM

the biggest issue i have with fsr2 isn't pure IQ in stills

2:54 AM

it's that everything fucking shimmers

2:54 AM

it fails hard at anti-aliasing

no bruh, that's native with no fsr

2:55 AM

i forgot to take fsr comparisons, but i'm just saying fsr is only an improvement over the native taa because the native implementation is so shit

i mean

2:55 AM

in those screenshots

2:55 AM

my gut feeling is that the aliased image is the native TAA

2:56 AM

because aliasing is like, what DLSS/DLAA are excellent at dealing

2:56 AM

nvidia has basically created the best value anti-aliasing so far, it even improves your framerate at times, insane to think about that

yeah, it's not really aliasing per se, if you disable taa the aliasing doesn't look that chunky

2:56 AM

it's fucking up something else

bro what

2:56 AM

did they make TAA CREATE aliasing

2:56 AM

...

yeah, it's straight up broken

2:57 AM

it destroys diagonal lines

dude

2:57 AM

r/FuckTAA is into something

but some lines look fine

if they're on AMD and they look at this

nah, that's just capcom

i understand why they're pissed

they've had issues with taa with rengine since re2, and some games are better but usually it's like this

2:58 AM

dmc5 looks fine for example

btw do you own some of the nixxes games

2:58 AM

what are ur thoughts there of DLSS

my guess is someone on the team is fucking up some variables for the taa

2:59 AM

i think i only used dlss in horizon zero dawn

nixxes being spiderman / miles morales / ratchet and clank

because i only played spiderman on the 1060

2:59 AM

their native upscaling was fine

yeah but dlss on spiderman to me is insane because its one of the games i notice its issues the least

i haven't looked at it, i might download it again later

3:00 AM

i never finished it

pretty reliably dlaa / dlss is better than native taa, i usually don't even check native

you're at 4K

the only time i thought native upscaling was better was in control, and that was because of dlss 1 (edited)

i have yet to play control w/ DLSS2

it's pretty good

3:02 AM

the game has a lot of mesh surfaces and it's very noisy, dlss takes care of most of it

3:02 AM

even the global reflection noise

fucktaa is right because consoles don't have dlss and so many developers fuck that shit up

i have said before

console issue tbh

shoutouts to ffvii rebirth for the latest why god moment

xbox series S is cucked due to AMD's incompetence here

greggle

shoutouts to ffvii rebirth for the latest why god moment

what did they do?

Xbox Series S rendering at 540p on demanding areas, 800p on a good day

3:03 AM

would be fine... if they could use DLSS, it'd look blurry but the IQ would be consistent, FSR2 just ruins the image

exio4

Xbox Series S rendering at 540p on demanding areas, 800p on a good day

damn, must be a light game

nothing specific, just that game in general is tough to look at on console

oh

3:04 AM

just buy it on pc

3:04 AM

oh wait

first we gotta wait for it to come to epic games store then wait for it to release on pc (edited)

can't wait for the full trilogy package for only $~~210~~ $180

rebirth already comes with remake for free

3:07 AM

i'll let you decide what that says about how well remake sold

i was confused as to how windows had spatial audio and it was transparency mode + the video coming out of my speakers

will it be the same for pc?

3:08 AM

also, do they reimburse the dummies that bought the remake?

exio4

i was confused as to how windows had spatial audio and it was transparency mode + the video coming out of my speakers

sometimes my hearing aids connect to the tv and i don't get why everyone is looking around

they're selling a standard edition of rebirth that just includes rebirth for 70 eagles and a twin package that includes rebirth and remake for... 70 eagles

3:09 AM

so no, they're still trying to scam you into accidentally not buying both

there's the square enix i know

3:09 AM

i guess those nfts didn't work out

3:10 AM

i have redbull

3:10 AM

its midnight

Can't believe you didn't catch on to the money making heist of the decade, SMH

time to pop some meds

also, i don't know if this is an issue with airpods in transparency mode, but with my buds it's really hard to tell the location of backup alarms

3:11 AM

like, that sound is normally kinda hard to pinpoint, and with the hearing aids it's almost impossible

3:11 AM

but i haven't been run over so far so

‍♂️

I need more time

3:12 AM

I haven't seen much about hardware news in the last 3 months other than the highlights, and I really miss it

the issue i have with transparency mode on my

is that if there's a lot of noise happening they start becoming less "spatial"?, but for only a few noises, i have forgotten i have put them too many times lol

yeah, i think that's an issue with any multi-microphone array

but like, crowded restaurant with people around in every direction, cars passing by, it does get harder to pinpoint where each noise is coming from

good thing i don't work in a noisy as fuck place

3:14 AM

sarcasm btw

3:14 AM

i can't hear shit at work, too many noises

you can still tell vaguely, cars coming from "behind", but you can't tell their speed other than through sheer "distance"

yeah, i can usually still tell it's from "the left", but no specific angle

3:15 AM

in a silent room with the buds i can tell almost exactly where the noise is coming from

but like, i'm on my own room now, with the earbuds, and my keyboard sounds like it is coming from... the keyboard? it is 99.999% of the way to not having anything on my ears

3:15 AM

yeaa

3:15 AM

same thing

we need more microphones

3:17 AM

i don't know if you also have this problem, but someone i know says he does, where with some earbuds that have transparency+voice boosting mode, it boosts some noises that overlap human voice frequencies

3:17 AM

so things like air filtration systems are loud as fuck

3:17 AM

where you can barely hear them normally

Egdarska

i don't know if you also have this problem, but someone i know says he does, where with some earbuds that have transparency+voice boosting mode, it boosts some noises that overlap human voice frequencies

i dont think apple's adaptive transparency mode is doing much on this regard

3:18 AM

the voice feature i noticed is more about tuning down the noise cancellation dynamically

3:19 AM

so it "opens" the frequencies through the ANC

Egdarska

so things like air filtration systems are loud as fuck

I've had that issue with every pair of ANC earbuds I've used (edited)

@Egdarska if you ever buy an amd gpu, the alpha translation layer gives you a 20% boost on blender

exio4

@Egdarska if you ever buy an amd gpu, the alpha translation layer gives you a 20% boost on blender

that's about as likely as me buying a mac

3:31 AM

20% boost on 30% performance is 36% of the performance

lol

Daily reminder the 3050 is still the lowest offer for DLSS

3:41 AM

The comparison of FSR should be against XeSS

3:41 AM

Since DLSS lacks the generic hardware feature

FSR and XeSS DP4a isn't a fair fight either

3:42 AM

FSR gets destroyed

3:43 AM

you want to compare FSR2 with breaking your monitor for it to become a good solid option at normal resolutions lol

It's a tradeoff of quality Vs gaining performance

3:52 AM

Ask 1650 and Vega iGPU users what they prefer, those two are the most common users

my steamdeck gets better performance on FSR2 true

3:53 AM

the only downside is the image is unusable

3:53 AM

but i guess it's better than accepting 35 fps instead of 40

When you want to play a game with low end hardware, what gets you closer to 60 FPS is more important

3:54 AM

And XeSS is too heavy there

doesn't vega have dp4a though

Each of the 3 has its use

if you said polaris you'd have a point

GoldenX86_64

Each of the 3 has its use

yeah obsolete hardware - fsr2 modern amd hardware - xess dp4a arc gpus - xess xmx nvidia - dlss

Basically

3:55 AM

Would be fun to see how slow DLSS on AMD is over Cuda

@exio4 https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/studio-dlss-gilmour-blender-davinci-resolve-unreal-engine/

DLSS 3.5 Integration in D5 Render | NVIDIA Blog

DLSS 3.5 Integration marks a new era of real-time rendering, plus explore winter worlds with 3D artist Michael Gilmour this week ‘In the NVIDIA Studio.’

3:58 AM

blender with ray reconstruction is going to be so funny

what

that one is a solution for basically real time raytracing using blender scenes

4:00 AM

so not quite cycles

4:01 AM

but if ray reconstruction ever comes to blender natively it's even more joever for amd

4:01 AM

animations in minutes with full quality cycles rendering

dude, ray reconstruction with like, >32 samples per pixel would be funny as fuck

yeah

4:03 AM

for animation, 512 samples is considered "low" right now

4:03 AM

that's smashing render times

this would likely make the work of artists like 500x better lol

it's kinda like when denoising first came to blender, even though the original denoiser was absolute shit

4:04 AM

it meant you could do 2000 samples instead of 20,000

dude i can't wait for this, it's gonna go so hard

4:05 AM

my fucking 2060 super is gonna keep getting finewine

4:05 AM

i swear, i expected nvidia to have made all the new dlss shit to be exclusive to 40 series by now, just for the bigger performance budget of big tensor cores

one of the problems is that dlss isn't open source

4:05 AM

so they'd have to have you download it separately, like optix at the beginning

that is fine tbh

it was kind of a pain setting up optix at first

i'd expect all the wiring to be left there as optional the same way it'd work on an amd gpu otherwise, and you drop the .dll somewhere (which could be automated) and it just works™️

4:07 AM

>By upgrading to a GeForce RTX 40 Series GPU, Gilmour could use NVIDIA DLSS Frame Generation to further improve viewport interactivity by tapping AI to generate additional, high-quality frames, ensuring increased FPS rendered at lower resolution while retaining high-fidelity detail.

4:07 AM

dude i can't even

yeah, dlss is different because it's all in a dll

they are adding dlss frame generation to the viewport hahahahhahaHHAHAHAHAA

optix was weird

4:07 AM

you had to integrate it into your cuda environment

4:07 AM

swapping original files around and hoping nothing broke

i know this is different (edited)

4:07 AM

cuz

4:08 AM

i cannot cope with this

4:08 AM

it is fucking funny how we've now in the age where we have a practical monopoly where you have an image quality advantage by going to a specific brand

we've come full circle

4:09 AM

you didn't get to see the days of gpu specific apis

AMD could release a RTX 50 series competitor tomorrow, and NVIDIA delay theirs until 2026 and just giving up some margins would make AMD gpus stay on shelves lol

you'd buy a game and it would look modern on a voodo card and shit on everything else

oh no

have you ever looked up the glide api?

i remember it existing

4:10 AM

and it being the standard

most people know it because of a fork that was used in the n64 emulator

what

but it was an exclusive api competing with og opengl

i dont follow n64 emulation

and it was pretty cool

yeah its the 3dfx one iirc

4:11 AM

3dfx == voodoo? i think?

yeah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glide_(API)

Glide (API)

Glide is a 3D graphics API developed by 3dfx Interactive for their Voodoo Graphics 3D accelerator cards. It started as a proprietary API, and was later open sourced by 3dfx. It was dedicated to rendering performance, supporting geometry and texture mapping primarily, in data formats identical to those used internally in their cards. Wide adopti...

4:11 AM

>However, just before it ceased operations and had its assets purchased by Nvidia, 3dfx released the Glide API, along with the Voodoo 2 and Voodoo 3 specifications, under an open source license

4:11 AM

wait, 3dfx was bought by nvidia? LOL

yeah

4:12 AM

it's how they got sli

i thought they had purchased assets in bankruptcy or something

i think that was another company's assets they bought

nvidia is wild to me tbh

4:13 AM

it sounds like an awesome place to work in too

4:13 AM

to the point that everybody working from before like 2019 or so

4:13 AM

is a multi-millionaire now because of stock shit

4:14 AM

and they had trouble making people work

4:14 AM

lol

4:15 AM

intel please save us

4:15 AM

oh @Egdarska i checked customs shit

4:16 AM

i could buy an A380 for like $300

4:16 AM

i lowkey wanna check real XeSS XMX

that seems about right

in the ideal world i could pick an A770 16G

4:17 AM

i've heard the experience finetuning LLMs is actually not that bad

4:18 AM

it isn't like AMD where your linux userspace randomly crashes

this was funny

4:18 AM

i remember people saying theirs was better because glide is "blurry"

dude

glide also applied anti aliasing

Matrox there got fucked

Egdarska

glide also applied anti aliasing

somebody i've talked with said DLAA looks worse than native in many games because its too blurry so that checks out

exio4

Matrox there got fucked

matrox had issues

and their clips all had insane aliasing issues / shimmering

it couldn't do blending, so it just checkered any blended texture

also, this is fucking funny

4:21 AM

we're back to square 1

4:21 AM

brand-specific ways of making games look better

mipmapping was a gimmick bro

voodoo doesn't know what to make up to sell cards

Egdarska

mipmapping was a gimmick bro

mipmaps are cringe

4:21 AM

were u following those like, back in the day

4:21 AM

idk how old u are

not really, i just had a cousin who had lots of them

4:22 AM

i'm 34

4:22 AM

so i was too young to have my own

you're not that old lol

but he used to rant about them and then i'd play with them

that explains why you're relatable, you're not old, just not a kid

4:22 AM

i swear you talked like you were in your late 40s

i'm old compared to the average discord user

well

4:23 AM

so i am

4:23 AM

i'm trying to remember the name of that one racing game that looked like it was running on a genesis with every other card

4:23 AM

but it was properly 3d with glide

talking about genesis

4:24 AM

i hate sega for never releasing virtua racing 32x on another platform

like, everything was replaced by billboards if you didn't have glide

4:24 AM

and no lighting

raytracing is a gimmick

4:24 AM

wait wrong decade

exio4

i hate sega for never releasing virtua racing 32x on another platform

you'll die salty about that

Egdarska

you'll die salty about that

no

4:24 AM

once ive got enough money i'll semi-retire for a few years and do it myself

there's lots of games that are stuck in old consoles

if sega doesn't do it

the ds has a lot of games that are not only ds exclusive, but japan exclusive

4:25 AM

there's a really nice flight sim combat game on ds, japan only

4:25 AM

luckily you can bullshit your way around it

4:26 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaPlz5K6B_Q

MasterOfRayquaza

DS History Episode 1: Jet Impulse

https://imagequalitymatters.blogspot.com/2011/01/retro-tech-analysis-virtua-racing-md-vs.html "rendering at 320x240" but actually it is 320x192 because of black borders, >Here, we see a solid 20fps update providing a clear extra level of fluidity above that of the MD version. at 20 fps

Retro Tech Analysis: Virtua Racing (MD vs 32X)

Well, here’s the final part of our Christmas/New Year holiday coverage. Having mostly been put together after hours outside of a busy period...

4:27 AM

15 fps on the megadrive version

4:27 AM

256x192 @ 15 fps for the MD version

4:27 AM

with much reduced render distance, etc

4:28 AM

I wish I could play this game at 6K@120 vsync'd or something

those were the dark days

4:31 AM

glad to see consoles have brought us back

4:31 AM

i still remember playing f-zero x after ocarina of time

4:31 AM

i didn't know what frame rate was but damn it looked so fluid

4:31 AM

60fps vs 20

Egdarska

those were the dark days

tbf this is a 2D console "forced" to 3D

4:32 AM

.... with software rendering lol

4:33 AM

i'd not even think a modern system would struggle with software rendering this at decent resolution/framerates

yeah, drastic uses software rendering and that's nitnendo ds on android

4:34 AM

can do 2x resolution too, runs on almost anything

Egdarska

yeah, drastic uses software rendering and that's nitnendo ds on android

wack

4:40 AM

I think at high enough resolutions & framerates, you are gonna start hitting memory bandwidth bottlenecks

4:42 AM

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=3840*2160*60*64+bytes

3840216060*64 bytes - Wolfram|Alpha

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.

4:42 AM

31 GB/s

4:42 AM

2160p60 @ 64 bytes per pixel of memory bandwidth required

4:43 AM

i mean, on a high-end m*c, you can kinda ignore this, you have GPU-levels of memory bandwidth off the CPU

4:43 AM

"ah yes 200 GB/s of memory bandwidth for a cpu"

4:44 AM

you'd ideally still try to fit within caches, though

wasn't that the issue with the x360? kinda

PS3 emulation is a bit one struggling with this

4:44 AM

the weird hybrids Sony put together are... GPU-like? and CPU-like? and neither?

4:45 AM

so you need to emulate them on your CPU, but they expect GPU-like bandwidth and throughput

4:45 AM

it is why they were good at Some Things™️

4:45 AM

they were basically proto-gpu-compute-accelerators, the goal was to do software rendering or something like that iirc

it could either fit a full 720p image in the edram, or a lower res one with msaa

ohh i don't remember that from xbox

4:46 AM

i thought you meant emulation related

so most games went with sub 720p and msaa which looks nicer

my bad :meow:

4:46 AM

that's not a bad deal tbh

exio4

they were basically proto-gpu-compute-accelerators, the goal was to do software rendering or something like that iirc

they're abominations

4:47 AM

they had like 2-3 workloads where they made sense

they would have made been fine

but they sucked at doing full cpu and full gpu work

if they hadn't... leaned into it

the only reason they used them for the ps3 was because the dude that came up with them was involved and he just wanted to shove them in there

4:48 AM

and everyone else was too much of a pussy to tell him to fuck off

like, if you told you had 3c6t + 2 SPU + a normal GPU, it'd have been great, as an edge for them, you can develop something normal and find an use for them eventually, like tensor-core-tier

yeah, the spus are amazing as helpers

Turing had tensor cores tacked along, but they didn't ship a 2080 Ti that got outperformed by a 1060

if they'd had a gpu and used the spus for everything after rendering it would have made their games look so much better than x360 it wouldnhave given them an actual edge

4:49 AM

specially by the mid-late generation where most of the graphics came from post processing

there were a lot of innovatives from sony games that were like "oh so we had SPUs we had no fucking clue what to do with, so we told the engineers to go hard"

having dedicated post processing units would have meant not using half of the gpu power for it

innovative techniques*

back then doing shitty gaussian dof took like 1.2ms at 720p lmao

i read some papers from like 2006 on graphics shit

and they were doing it at half res, so 360p

and it blew me how shit we don't even think about was measured in ms there

yeah

4:52 AM

ssao was out of the question for most games

i can't remember what it was, it was like sampling some texture at native resolution too many times caused the effect to go from 1ms to 4 and im like ???

tonemapping had to be taken into consideration

4:52 AM

now it's just one of a hundred steps in the final preparation of the image

4:52 AM

you don't have to think about it

its why modern games cant “scale back” to old graphics

also the reason why bloom was so shit

and people struggle to get that

it could only use one render target, so they just turned the opacity to 500

like, variable rate shading would sound deranged 20 years ago

instead of being like 5-6 levels with different strengths

“so you are telling me you do that much work, just to avoid rendering bits of a buffer, and you do this half a dozen times?”

exio4

like, variable rate shading would sound deranged 20 years ago

vrs is reverse msaa

Egdarska

vrs is reverse msaa

tier 1 is

4:55 AM

tier 2 is much better

4:55 AM

i dislike tier 1

i can't remember that one x360 game that would run into the low single digits when there was blur on screen

4:55 AM

and they weren't using separable gaussian blur

but tier 2 is much more expensive and complicated

and the blur radius wasn't insane, it was just like a heat shimmer effect, probably 10 pixels

4:56 AM

but bruh

4:57 AM

even with a mask i can't even imagine how long it would take a 2006 gpu to do 100 samples per pixel at 720p

sonys funny cores would have given ps3 an insane lead used exclusively this way (edited)

4:58 AM

instead of trying to render everything cpu related on 1 single core, and relying on SPEs for normal crap

just freeing the ps3 from having to use quincunx would have been a huge win

did you watch alexs video on TA

4:59 AM

TAA

no

5:00 AM

i watched a bit

5:00 AM

this was an issue in a lot of multiplatform games

5:00 AM

the x360 version would be high res but aliased, or low res but smooth, and the ps3 would be both low res and blurry as fuck, but still aliased lol

DLAA did better at AA at times than naive 8x SSAA (edited)

makes sense, you need insane downsampling to get rid of temporal instability

5:01 AM

it's why i fucking hate fxaa and anyone who uses it

fxaa is great bro

kotaku pls

i havent used fxaa much, usually i played with AA off back then and now i just use DLAA or supersample with DLDSR for older games

5:03 AM

as pure AA

Egdarska

kotaku pls

one of my hot takes is that FuckTAA should be happier with games designed for upscaling because that means buffers get rendered at higher resolutions to improve the quality of the upscaling

exio4

i havent used fxaa much, usually i played with AA off back then and now i just use DLAA or supersample with DLDSR for older games

did i get lucky

5:06 AM

btw @Egdarska have u read through SMAA paper

5:07 AM

its a kinda proto DLSS, they do a temporal supersample and then try to design the spatial anti aliasing to account for these

exio4

btw @Egdarska have u read through SMAA paper

yeah, smaa is pretty cool as far as post process aa goes

5:52 AM

it's the same process as jpg compression, if you look at small enough blocks, everything follows the same basic shapes

Egdarska

it's the same process as jpg compression, if you look at small enough blocks, everything follows the same basic shapes

part of me wonders what kind of FSR1-like upscaling could be implemented with optical flow analysis + basic reshade-like injection tbh

5:55 AM

generic DLSS one day

it will probably be pretty decent by the time something is available

one day

6:24 AM

i want the fsr3 vs dlss3 video from alex

6:26 AM

DLSS FG is apparently much higher quality than FSR3 (which seems to match what I experienced, DLSS FG at 60 => 120 fps, had no funny visual glitches, but I have yet to see an FSR3 in-between frame that looks 'weirdly native' lol)

6:26 AM

it's still good enough because smoothness is important

DLFG is just better

6:33 AM

the frametimes feel more consistent compared to fsr3

i also wish i had an ampere & ada gpu

6:35 AM

to benchmark OFA on 'em

ofa?

optical flow analysis

6:40 AM

the hardware bit that DLSS Frame Generation uses to find what moved between frames alongside motion vectors (edited)

6:40 AM

it does it at full resolution

kk

6:46 AM

i just didn't understand the abreviation lol

fixed wording to make it clearer (edited)

i can't wait for the rtx 50 series

6:55 AM

with

6:55 AM

DLSS Frame gen x2

6:55 AM

double the interpolated frames!

6:55 AM

what more could you want!

6:55 AM

no generational uplift

6:55 AM

aside from the price

I want DLSS Frame Reprojection

yes

6:56 AM

i actually 100% agree

6:56 AM

i feel nvidia could work some black magic

Frame Gen is cool but doesn't scale

actually

well I mean it does, but not on input lag

theoretically

frame reprojection could lower lag, improve smoothness, and ultimately break the idea of native rendering beyond anything we've seen so far yet

real frame -> reprojected frame -> interpolated frame -> real frame

uhh

6:57 AM

I feel like reprojection would be a different setting

exio4

frame reprojection could lower lag, improve smoothness, and ultimately break the idea of native rendering beyond anything we've seen so far yet

technically speaking we've already seen a rudimentary implementation

it can introduce more artifacts but improve input latency

the internet lost it's mind for a bit over it

SadSinglePringle

technically speaking we've already seen a rudimentary implementation

?

6:58 AM

https://developer.oculus.com/blog/introducing-application-spacewarp/ you mean this?

Introducing Application SpaceWarp

Application SpaceWarp (AppSW) is a developer-driven optimization technology that can unlock extra computation power for suitable content. In our initial testing, Application SpaceWarp gave applications up to 70 percent additional compute, potentially with little to no perceptible artifacts.

https://youtu.be/IvqrlgKuowE?si=EKkf9mzZ-dq9BKGt\

Linus Tech Tips

I’m Embarrassed I Didn’t Think of This.. - Asynchronous Reprojectio...

6:58 AM

inope

oh

some random dude

yeah that demo

made a lil game

6:58 AM

demo ye

6:58 AM

still it's pretty good

AppSW is actually shipping in real games

6:58 AM

lol

meh

6:58 AM

just waiting for nvidia to say they trippled frame rates

i'm going to be honest for a moment

6:59 AM

why the hell does windows need an upscaler?

assassin's creed nexus & asgard's wrath 2 both use it

SadSinglePringle

why the hell does windows need an upscaler?

Xbox

no like

if they work on it for Xbox - might as well ship it for windows users

they're making an upscaler

yes

for applications

no, it's for games

no its for apps

GoldenSun3DS

I just ordered a second (used) RTX 4060 Ti 16GB off eBay for $413 after taxes.

I think I might actually try to make a game using AI for things like story dialog, sprites and maybe even music. I think as long as you are good at prompting, keep good notes on things like character descriptions and plot history and use a very large model with very large context (essentially memory/RAM for the AI), you could write a very compelling novel with AI for converting your story ideas into a novelization. I'm not good at writing a story with prose or that feels good to read, so AI opens up the possibility that someone like me could actually write a good story. But you definitely need powerful hardware with multiple high VRAM NVidia GPUs to get the speed good enough to use AI LLMs for work purposes. For work, it's not good enough to just wait 10-20 minutes (or an hour) for it to ouput 500 words of high quality text.

SadSinglePringle

no its for apps

if you mean the new thing it's for games

ok

they are working on a MetalFX competitor basically, apparently has both a spatial & temporal mode

it is for games

7:00 AM

but it also works for application for some reason

spatial upscalers do that yes

atleast thats what some news articles are saying

7:00 AM

not sure how true it is however

FSR1 works on apps too

7:01 AM

but apparently it's for games

SadSinglePringle

it is for games

exio4

but apparently it's for games

is it for anything really?

they just won't disable it for non-gaming apps, but it's for games

@Egdarska there's apparently a temporal one too

7:02 AM

and it can run on the NPU - akin to MetalFX Quality on iPhone lol

"Microsoft is also working on an improved color management feature for Windows 11, "

7:02 AM

improved implies they have working color management right now

SadSinglePringle

is it for anything really?

a decent spatial upscaler is good for somebody doing 4K gaming, you can ideally do 1440p to 4K on lower end cards and get most of the way there without having to suffer the bandwidth & overhead of upscaling to that resolution and a temporal AI-driven upscaler is Microsoft's XeSS/DLSS

7:04 AM

so

ehhh

7:04 AM

dlss is more than enough tbh

DLSS is nvidia-only

every game supports it anyways

7:05 AM

i know

i love it, but a competitor that runs on every vendor would be very much appreciated

it's more than enough for me

this is Microsoft working on thier upscaler because next-gen Xbox is likely AMD too

honestly anything i say right now take with a huge grain of salt i'm in the middle of an all nighter and i haven't had much sleep for the past couple of days

i am supposed to be working

7:06 AM

i hate adhd

ME TOOOOOO

7:06 AM

i've got a whole project to be doing rn, but i'm out of caffeine and i think my medicine is wearing off

mood

indeed

exio4

this is Microsoft working on thier upscaler because next-gen Xbox is likely AMD too

they have no faith in amd making a decent one

Egdarska

they have no faith in amd making a decent one

everything points to Microsoft & Sony forcing AMD to make RDNA5 competent too (edited)

Egdarska

they have no faith in amd making a decent one

(and they'd be right based on the current showing)

exio4

everything points to Microsoft & Sony forcing AMD to make RDNA5 competent too (edited)

so rdna4 is written off lol

the freaking switch two could be better than the ps5 when it comes to visuals, because amds sitting on their ass

nah it will still be mobile hardware

7:09 AM

but it will probably have a better upscaler

yeah that's fair

that's the joke

honestly tho

it'll be more pleasant to look at heavily upscaled DLSS than FSR2 failing to do 360p to 4K

from the leaks people have been doing isn't it going to be based on the T320 or something like that?

allegedly

yeah

7:10 AM

someone was doing some testing with comparable hardware with a bit of forced bottlenecking

(digital foundry)

if it's not a heavily limited version of the T320 it will actually be a pretty powerful handheld

exio4

(digital foundry)

yeah

7:11 AM

and if they can use that giant ai accelerator then it'll mitigate a good chunk of the performance loss from dlss when docked

idk memory bandwidth will still be a bottleneck

that's the biggest worry in my opinion

it's gonna have mobile hardware memory bandwidth lol

memory is gonna make or break the system

the iphone ports of games are actually memory bound

7:12 AM

from what i've seen

the best most optimistic leak places it at 1/3 of the mobile 3060

its fine

which is honestly kinda alright for a handheld i guess

theyll make totk 60 fps and everybody will say its a PS5 killer

lmao

7:12 AM

also how much do they really need?

Egdarska

which is honestly kinda alright for a handheld i guess

i dont think it can get that good on a handheld

they could port rat game 2 at 60fps 480p with dlss

it's not like nintendo is planning on running realistic games

7:12 AM

it's nintendo

it's not just realism

I'm assuming everyone here has Yuzu working right?

there's lots of things that are heavier to run than they look

Samsara Da King

I'm assuming everyone here has Yuzu working right?

yes

Egdarska

there's lots of things that are heavier to run than they look

oh i know trust me

7:13 AM

but we've seen what they can do with the switch

Egdarska

there's lots of things that are heavier to run than they look

what iwll be the first game to use rt on switch (edited)

people usually think cel shaded is easier to run but it depends on implementation

SadSinglePringle

yes

Would it be possible for you to dm me as I kinda need some assistance.

and the jump from switch to 1/3 3060 would be insane

Samsara Da King

Would it be possible for you to dm me as I kinda need some assistance.

#support-windows #support-linux or whatevr, this is the vibing section of the server pls

Samsara Da King

Would it be possible for you to dm me as I kinda need some assistance.

Sure

exio4

what iwll be the first game to use rt on switch (edited)

a pokemon game

Egdarska

a pokemon game

unreal engine game too

it will look like scarlet but with rt tacked on

7:14 AM

and it will run at 20fps

20 fps

nah

ok you are optimistic

mario odyssey with rt

i can't wait for nintendo epd to get their hands on modern hardware

is epd the good subdivision

luigi's mansion 4 is gonna be

i want a cyberpunk port to ios

7:16 AM

lm3 was actually made by next level, but nintendo epd made all the good looking switch games

mario odyssey with rt

7:17 AM

dlss

7:17 AM

dlfg

7:17 AM

dlrr

the fact that nintendo games gonna get anti-aliasing is wild

7:18 AM

it only took them a bit longer than most of the industry

a bit

pikmin 4 does have taa

i mean actually become standard

there's actually a good number of switch games with taa, mostly ue4 games

wait pikmin with ray tracing would actually look amazing

pikmin ue5

pikmin with lumen and nanite

i'm going to go work at nintendo

exio4

it only took them a bit longer than most of the industry

n64 had AA before anyone else

get access to pikmin 5 source code

there are switch games using msaa

run it on pc with nanite and lumen

GoldenX86_64

n64 had AA before anyone else

what AA did it do

the only one back then

exio4

what AA did it do

crusty pseudo-msaa and full screen aa

7:20 AM

aka a blur filter

it has a form of msaa

GoldenX86_64

the only one back then

you mean msaa, or ssaa, or full screen?

ssaa iirc

no

7:20 AM

lol

7:21 AM

ssaa would be insane

no fucking way it did ssaa

it didn't

it had a poly edge msaa but it worked using the z buffer and an alpha

it was a kind of almost msaa, with a single sample

so the only way to use it was back to front

>msaa >single sample

then it just blurred the edges

im lost

(so it was never used)

7:21 AM

basically

exio4

im lost

yeah, that's why i say pseudo-msaa

1xmsaa

it wasn't msaa

so useless

and the fullscreen blur i assume was proto-fxaa?

still first in the game with it, and with only 4mb

it used the sample to calculate how far away the nearest triangle edge was and then just blurred it

uh

7:22 AM

fxaa but only across the horizontal

scanline fxaa kek

7:23 AM

while the ps1 tied verts to resolution giving us glorious wobbly graphics, nintendo had aa, and microcode working as a compute shader

alright, so googling this, it seems like... the anti-aliasing was ... just blur

mostly yeah

you don't need more for a CRT

(you do, but the hardware couldn't)

n64 games look better when you force the aa off

GoldenX86_64

you don't need more for a CRT

crts aren't magic

7:24 AM

they don't create anti aliasing

no, they do something worse, along destroying your eyes

agree to disagree

even less at the low resolutions of the 64

designers worked with crt in mind

most games are 320x240

which is how you end up with castlevania scenarios

good use of "crt aa" was fucking art

exactly

3D games work differently

there wasn't crt aa

but dear god i'm happy crts are dead

yeah

7:25 AM

low key crts suck

also, CRTs can be pixel perfect

i like my thin screen

i like my eyes free of radiation

don't go outside then

exio4

a decent spatial upscaler is good for somebody doing 4K gaming, you can ideally do 1440p to 4K on lower end cards and get most of the way there without having to suffer the bandwidth & overhead of upscaling to that resolution and a temporal AI-driven upscaler is Microsoft's XeSS/DLSS

I wonder if it'd be possible to do dual GPU gaming where the other GPU is using all of its power on AI upscaling. You'd avoid the SLI issues because the game would only be running on a single GPU. I wonder what kind of resolution boost you could get if you dedicated all of something like an RTX 4060 to AI upscaling and/or Frame Generation.

GoldenX86_64

i like my eyes free of radiation

wait till he learns about light

it's not aimed directly to my eyes

electromagnetic radiation

GoldenX86_64

it's not aimed directly to my eyes

no, it's just like 400 times more intense

GoldenSun3DS

I wonder if it'd be possible to do dual GPU gaming where the other GPU is using all of its power on AI upscaling. You'd avoid the SLI issues because the game would only be running on a single GPU. I wonder what kind of resolution boost you could get if you dedicated all of something like an RTX 4060 to AI upscaling and/or Frame Generation.

uhhh, the biggest issue - you start hitting bottlenecks on PCIe bandwidth/latency & there's diminishing returns of spending that many resources on "AI upscaling"

but constant, not at a disgusting low refresh rate

yeah

and without a fucking high pitch

technically speaking it wouldn't have much affect would it?

no, but neither would a crt

the tensor cores work seperately from the rest of the gpu when it comes to dlss for example

remember having to use 85hz to not get headaches?

idk i just feel like CRTs are heavily overrated and anybody thinking of CRT blur is more thinking of composite blur than anything

it's not like running it on the same gpu causes them to interfere with each other

exio4

idk i just feel like CRTs are heavily overrated and anybody thinking of CRT blur is more thinking of composite blur than anything

nah, scanlines had their charm

7:27 AM

sometimes

7:27 AM

only in 2d era games

SadSinglePringle

it's not like running it on the same gpu causes them to interfere with each other

i think they mean like using an amd gpu

the 2D games that used composite blur to do effects were a thing sure, but that's a different shit

if you miss scanlines so much just use retroarch, a 4k oled, and a good pc

SadSinglePringle

the tensor cores work seperately from the rest of the gpu when it comes to dlss for example

not really

i want a triple gpu setup with one gpu for rendering, one for physx, one for upscaling and fg

tensor cores are somewhat separate, but not fully standalone, and they still have to share caches/etc

get info from textures

GoldenX86_64

nah, scanlines had their charm

Nah, scanlines or attempting to imitate CRT on a flat screen monitor (for stuff like emulating older games) just looks bad. Even if you get it absolutely perfect, it's inferior to not having the scanlines.

i remember a buddy had a 960 with a 550 ti for physx

i mean genuine scanlines, not shaders

for the 4 games where that made a difference

I still think genuine scanlines are bad

let me guess, 3 were batman arkham games

1

7:30 AM

they were

and borderlands

GoldenSun3DS

Nah, scanlines or attempting to imitate CRT on a flat screen monitor (for stuff like emulating older games) just looks bad. Even if you get it absolutely perfect, it's inferior to not having the scanlines.

(they never looked good)

but you get amazing stuff when taking advantage of it, like great hair drawings

so much paper

7:30 AM

the dust and smoke looked cool

7:31 AM

in a low fi render way

7:31 AM

anything modern shits on it

also, you can emulate CRT scalines on hiDPI monitors pretty well

remember the rage when physx cards lost support?

they did?

yeah, you used to be able to use a radeon and a physx, that got cut and after that, the card itself

7:31 AM

since compute shaders took over

i still see a selection thing, i thought a second nvidia gpu would work

and most newer games don't even do physx on the gpu

no, i mean the actual physx card

7:32 AM

the dedicated one

the shader shit for emulating CRTs is funny to me

well, don't use it for cyberpunk, it's intended for snes games

because the best way to emulate CRT's graphical quirks is pixel density

ironically, yeah

but the PC world is alergic to 4K 24" displays

7:33 AM

so

i would pay the shit out of a 24 inches 4k display

7:34 AM

we're almost there, just one more push

Also, even for games where the CRT effect is necessary to complete the visuals, that's more of the game developers of the time utilizing hardware tricks to achieve things that weren't possible otherwise. In those cases, the CRT scanlines are still not a good looking effect. They just fix a visual bug that is caused by not having them, and if you could mod the game to fix that visual bug without using scanlines, the game would look better without it.

well, timetravel to back then and start selling oleds

Runs gud

640 x 480 @ 24" is 33 ppi 320 x 240 @ 24" (ignoring scanlines because 240 would be done through using even/odd frames on a 480i signal) = 16.7 2160p (3840x2160) would get reduced to 2880x2160 2160/480 = 4.5 2160/240 = 9 you have a 9x9 block to work if the pixels were square, and it gives you room create thin scanlines for ~effect~

7:45 AM

https://forums.libretro.com/t/sony-megatron-colour-video-monitor/36109/633 funny

Sony Megatron Colour Video Monitor

No, unfortunately our “update” routine is pretty much just “download the new stuff and overwrite any conflicts”. Renamed ones will not be moved around

7:53 AM

Can't wait to have it back

super resolution videos for rdna2 is also missing

AL+ is missing for everyone kek

7:54 AM

And AFMF support for RDNA2 iGPUs

AL+ is missing for RDNA3 owners, with no explanation as to why it needs to be RDNA3-exclusive

It has to exist first before it gets to be tested

at least nvidia gives me half assed excuses for their software locks

The driver was public maybe a day before it got taken down

@Moonlacer what software is similar to the overlay amd uses?

7:59 AM

the intel made one

PresentMon?

that, thanks

Wish I could talk about AL+ more

8:01 AM

I don't remember what was in the public driver, though, lol

ndas suck eh

Get Blink to send the MPR save

8:03 AM

The one gidoly sent isn't even a save file???

https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/02/12/testing-ai-engine-amd-ryzen-9-7940hs-windows-11/

Testing AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS' AI Engine in Windows 11 - CNX Software

Some of the newer AMD Ryzen processors come with an AI Engine (also called NPU or IPU) that works in Windows 11 including the Ryzen 9 7940HS, Ryzen 7

8:04 AM

1 year after launch, AMD's NPU is still borderline useless, even if it technically exists

8:04 AM

Intel's consumer NPU has existed for a month and it already has more support

@Blinkhawk can you pass that metroid prime save already?

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2024/02/01/introducing-neural-processor-unit-npu-support-in-directml-developer-preview/ >NPU support in DirectML is only available for Intel® Core™ Ultra processers with Intel® AI Boost at this time.

Introducing Neural Processor Unit (NPU) support in DirectML (develo...

A developer preview of DirectML support for Intel® AI boost With the release of DirectML 1.13.1 and the ONNX Runtime 1.17, we are excited to announce developer preview support for NPU acceleration in DirectML, the machine learning platform

exio4

Intel's consumer NPU has existed for a month and it already has more support

and i still can't play forza on intel drivers

GoldenX86_64

and i still can't play forza on intel drivers

shows how hard gpu drivers are

and how much focus is on ai

8:06 AM

can't wait to get even more tailored ads thanks to it

8:10 AM

honestly, not happy to have another powerdraw in the os trying to sell me trash

wut

8:13 AM

apple has shipped NPUs for a while

apple is not microsoft

8:14 AM

what do you think w12 will use them for, better paint.exe?

they use them for face recognition (faceid), background blur, background noise reduction

8:14 AM

isn't that one of the things it will use NPUs for too?

8:14 AM

object segmentation / background removal (edited)

exio4

apple has shipped NPUs for a while

haven't android oems done it too for a while?

GoldenX86_64

what do you think w12 will use them for, better paint.exe?

yes

their current background removal is ok but it will be better with npus

Egdarska

haven't android oems done it too for a while?

i meant specifically laptops, but yeah - it's just that android socs have not had its NPUs let's say, be a focus like Apple lol

yay, local copilot boo, more ads

copilot won't run locally

8:15 AM

speciallly not on a normal NPU

goodbye to the only plus

GPT-3.5 is a 170B parameter

8:16 AM

that basically means you need >128GB of RAM to use it

8:17 AM

GPT-3.5 isn't very well optimized tho, you need smaller models

8:17 AM

but you'll still need like 32GB for good results lol

kids in 2040 will make memes out of old discord logs

and that means those npu are basically a marketing buff right now, if the only use is blurring and recognition oh and of course, routine recognition to provide more ads

mfs with 1TB of l3 cache laughing at some dude complaining he needs 128GB of ram

NPUs are not enabling something "new", they're enabling them to be done more efficiently

8:18 AM

Apple did their AI shit on intel cpus, without NPUs

8:18 AM

the trick? it pushed your battery life down to like 2 hours, now it doesn't even know it is running

you can run gans on cpu lol

8:19 AM

or amd i guess, same thing

8:19 AM

turns out hardware designed to do something efficiently usually does it more efficiently

it's mid at best then, guess it will be more interesting in the coming years

1

GPUs usually are way more powerful than NPUs at AI shit, too, so you could technically see Microsoft do all this tomorrow, or yesterday

8:20 AM

for example, on my m*c, stable diffusion on the NPU takes much longer to run - something that'd take like 7 seconds off the GPU would need 12-13

8:20 AM

but the power consumption drops from 45W of having the GPU maxed out to ... like 15W lol

Egdarska

turns out hardware designed to do something efficiently usually does it more efficiently

there's no killer use for NPUs yet

wut

it's a nice to have, not a WOW MUST HAVE

GoldenX86_64

there's no killer use for NPUs yet

"you can have a meeting with background noise removal without any (major) hit to battery life" is already a massive W

meh

there's no killer use for integrated sound processors yet

not impressed

iphones do background noise removal, and have done so for a few years

it's like wow you have audio without a card

8:21 AM

big woop

I mean, something stupidly basic, you know Apple Photos?

8:22 AM

they do all the "object identification" on-device

8:22 AM

google photos does it on the cloud™️

i mean awesome, it saves a bit of battery life it's not a live or die feature to me

8:22 AM

just a novelty

exio4

I mean, something stupidly basic, you know Apple Photos?

their OCR is also NPU accelerated too iirc

novelty doesn't mean mundane, it's kinda the opposite

8:23 AM

the fact that the current npu use is mundane now is kind of the point

8:24 AM

it's something that improves the device without being a "feature"

and it will be marketed as a feature everywhere

because at some point soon the npu will be like having a media engine in your soc, it's just there

8:24 AM

yes, video acceleration was an advertised feature too

this is like wondering why video encoding is a feature

multi touch was an advertised feature

1

that's my point, will be great in the near future, right now it's just a "meh, you made the 15w laptop cpu even more cramped in the die"

what?

i'm not following anymore

8:26 AM

it's using less power so ?

Apple shipped their first NPUs just to help their faceID sensor, with the iphone X, that is when it was a "novelty without general purpose"

and idling 99% of the time when it isn't using less power

the same that your media engines are

8:26 AM

or your display engines if you only have 1 display plugged in

also, i doubt the iphone's is idling at any time

or uhhh, most of your cores, when you're not using them

i also don't get the "when it isn't using less power"

8:27 AM

do you think it's always running full speed on idle?

No idea what Windows 12 would use AI for other than the obvious small things

8:28 AM

On device Copilot seems too far out

the one they made very clear is ad placement

8:28 AM

that irks me

judging tehcnology by what microsoft does with it is also kinda dumb, they're microsoft

8:28 AM

they failed at making phones twice

it's the use i will get

Aye, and I think it's funny how many times they've already changed Copilot's location and deaign

i don't get to buy apple devices

8:29 AM

so what use i get from npus is whatever samsung cooks, and microsoft

nowadays you have on

using machine learning

Siri's speech to text model (they should improve it, fuckers) / their whole assistant
OCR
object segmentation ("pinch to select subject") / background removal
their text autocomplete is a small GPT-like model
tagging things (apple photos runs all on-device, it's potentially end-to-end encrypted with no way for Apple to see the actual content of pictures) "dog", "pet", "car", etc
camera background blur, background noise removal, forced-eye-contact-in-a-creepy-way (RTX Broadcast suite but Apple)
video editing features - also usable for 'small stuff' (tracking objects, etc)

pretty solid

https://developer.apple.com/machine-learning/api/ lol i google and they have most of these exposed as APIs

8:33 AM

i missed a few things

sadly i'm not an use case for most of them kek

that tracking objects thing is cool, can you export to like blender?

8:33 AM

for render compositing

Egdarska

that tracking objects thing is cool, can you export to like blender?

... I mean, there's nothing that says you can't just write a plugin to call it directly from blender

8:34 AM

I assume just nobody has done it yet?

API is there

like, I used this https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/macos-background-removal.1691/ (iirc, or a similar version)

macOS Background Removal

This plugin provides a filter to remove a persons background using macOS' built-in Vision API. The filter can be found in the filters window under "Effect Filters". This means that it can be used on any type of source, not just Video Capture...

8:35 AM

for removing the background when i 'streamed' on my m*c

8:36 AM

it looks fine

apparently there's way to get the motion tracked data into blender with third party apps

this was a 3 Mbps stream

8:37 AM

don't mind that i cropped a small bit of a 1080p 3 Mbps stream ok

Where mah pixels?

i think it looks surprisingly ok, given it was re-encoding a mjpeg thing on the background too

Was that H264 originally?

the stream was H265

did you encode it with a 7900xtx? kek

8:39 AM

the ai work is fine, but the camera didn't like 3mbps

https://www.youtube.com/live/rE4nK9eTZac?t=3261

exio4

Cyberpunk 2077 - PS4 Unpatched #02

Built-in webcam, makes sense

it's also a macbook webcam on a dimly lit room, on a small corner of the screen, on a 3Mbps H265 stream, that got re-compressed by youtube in real-time

I've still never seen a good webcam in person, so I have reason to believe they don't exist

nah I mean

8:41 AM

if I wanted peak webcam I could... have used the phone

50mp to the rescue

macOS automatically offers the option to use your iPhone as a camera if it is nearby

GoldenX86_64

50mp to the rescue

I'm a 12MP peasant

Cheaping out on webcams, SMH

exio4

https://www.youtube.com/live/rE4nK9eTZac?t=3261

this is unpatched cyberpunk on a base PS4

Still better to have it built-in than use some janky external solution

i wish i finished it

sudden exio

8:43 AM

lol the old ui

this isn't even the old UI

8:43 AM

this is the pre-launch UI

8:43 AM

it actually has a lot of weapon names changed too

8:43 AM

it confuses the fuck out of me when i look at the inventory, which takes multiple seconds to load

Do you still have the physical copy?

yes, it's next to me

It didn't require a download, did it?

nope

Nice

Sony moment

8:44 AM

it came in two blurays too

give it a few years, it will be a good piece of history

I may have to do that with Starfield if it launches on PS5

8:45 AM

Too bad it will be when the game only has half the amount of bugs

I do plan on a proper full playthrough if I have a PS5 at one poiont

8:46 AM

point*

you expect todd to fix something by then?

because on a PS5 it won't crash (from running out of memory) and it will run much better

heh wonder if we'll get a switch 2 port

GoldenX86_64

you expect todd to fix something by then?

Nah, it will be after the DLC launches which always brings way too many bugs in

8:47 AM

They inadvertently make their single player games live service

ah yeah, if anyone uses edge, you have to do this

On Linux?

no idea if chrome does it, but seems like browsers can't load profiles

8:48 AM

windows too

8:48 AM

tested it on rodrigo's laptop

either way

8:48 AM

excited for NPUs

i wanna see more use for them

for example, Intel's NPU can already be used for separating tracks on audacity

8:48 AM

https://github.com/intel/openvino-plugins-ai-audacity/blob/main/doc/feature_doc/music_separation/README.md

openvino-plugins-ai-audacity/doc/feature_doc/music_separation/READM...

Contribute to intel/openvino-plugins-ai-audacity development by creating an account on GitHub.

that's cool af

8:50 AM

18+ song, just as a content warning, dunno if I can add spoiler tags to files

8:50 AM

@GoldenX86_64 ^ this is a test I did, it can run on CPU too, but of course, a NPU is much more efficient

it isn't perfect, but it gets to 99.95% of the way there

8:51 AM

I didn't know it was this much of a solved problem lol

good enough to start working

I used a FOSS music separator like that recently

exio4

for example, Intel's NPU can already be used for separating tracks on audacity

yo

I look forward to the time when it can enhance clarity of older music

RTX audio when, so that piano doesn't sound weird when it has the voices removed

The AI really, really, can't do that right now

i don't think piano will be solved soon

8:53 AM

the harmonics of a piano have a lot of overlap with human voice

sadly

8:54 AM

someone take that vocals only file and turn it into a miku cover

it would have to know not only which note is being played, and the exact voice of the singer, so not impossible but a lot of work

You see a lot of music based games that have clearly used some kind of tool like this when they haven't gotten the separate tracks from artists themselves

8:54 AM

Ones like FUSER, Fortnite, and some others

yeah, they had to do that in some old tracks for guitar hero

8:55 AM

specifically in paint it black, the original masters were fubar

Yeah, too much echo

so they had to separate them as best they could with like 2007 technology (edited)

8:56 AM

then metallica's death magnetic was the opposite because the guitar hero dudes got the original tracks before lars fucked with them

All the tracks just bleed into each other when all the instruments are playing in Paint It, Black (edited)

so that's the only way to hear the album and have it sound good

I just wish NPUs were a bigger focus, they are fucking exciting tbh

8:58 AM

fucking M1 has technically a better NPU than meteor lake & phoenix iirc

Quite a few of my favorite band's songs weren't recorded in a professional studio, and were quite literally recorded on a one track recorder with fused input wires

8:58 AM

I want AI to be able to separate that

have you tried Audacity's?

Not yet, no

i'm gonna try that thing

https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Neural_Engine

Neural Engine

Apple's Neural Engine (ANE) is the marketing name for a group of specialized cores functioning as a neural processing unit (NPU) dedicated to the acceleration of artificial intelligence operations...

if it can separate black metal it can do anything

oh it's actually worse than MTL

9:00 AM

wack, i feel like other vendors' stacks are mid if they seem to get outperformed by Apple's weaker cores lol

Oh, and the ability to make concert recordings sound closer to studio grade

@GoldenX86_64 btw, NVIDIA's autoHDR is something that would be great for NPUs too

9:01 AM

because you could do them on laptops, without uh, firing up a dGPU for it

did github fix their shit? this is downloading at 10MBps

video playback won't go from 14 hours to 90 minutes because your video has prettier blacks

it used to be like 1-2

Moonlacer

Oh, and the ability to make concert recordings sound closer to studio grade

Good test here: https://youtu.be/Q57hmiH9qNE?si=leJZb01XrxAOplvK

MrSlapyourmammy

DEVO - The One That Gets Away

actually i think i have a better test for this

9:03 AM

i'm gonna see if i can isolate the bass from and justice for all

9:03 AM

if it can find it it's really good

exio4

because you could do them on laptops, without uh, firing up a dGPU for it

if it can do 4k video, that's a good win

9:04 AM

https://www.mercadolibre.com.ar/placa-de-video-nvidia-msi-ventus-3x-geforce-rtx-40-series-rtx-4070-912-v513-219-oc-edition-12gb/p/MLA25862072?pdp_filters=category:MLA1658#searchVariation=MLA25862072&position=9&search_layout=grid&type=product&tracking_id=02f6c207-3d85-4144-ae09-b71eedf05c52 the joy of being poor

Over $1M, sounds reasonable /s

it actually is reasonsable

9:07 AM

for the context here

9:07 AM

lol

Anything for them Tensor cores

well, I personally feel like at that price point you do want that yes

9:07 AM

we talked about it smh

@exio4 the gpus just appear as gpu 0 and gpu 1

9:14 AM

so let's hope gpu 1 is the 3060 and not the vega

use your CPU

9:14 AM

it'll be faster

kek

NPU-friendly workloads tend to work best on IGPs over dGPUs

9:14 AM

because they're basically doing a lot of small packages over PCIe otherwise

hmm, even if it's a vega

I have no idea if Vega would work

9:15 AM

but the CPU will be gud

we're gonna find out

I don't trust Vega at this, hopefully ur pc doesn't explode

that was 30 seconds of audio

9:17 AM

but i don't know which gpu it was running on

lol

9:17 AM

look at task manager?

9:17 AM

maybe (edited)

yeah i wasn't looking, i'll do another run with the other gpu and check

9:19 AM

lol yeah, it can't separate the bass from the guitar

9:20 AM

i think it just means bass as in sub-bass, not the instrument

Egdarska

i think it just means bass as in sub-bass, not the instrument

yeah its not instruments

i'm not seeing a spike in either gpu but this one finished significantly faster

9:24 AM

hold up i think it did isolate the bass, it's just almost imperceptible, which makes sense

9:25 AM

the vocals do sound pretty clean, a little bit of compression gets rid of the robot voice effect

i think this is pretty good for what is ultimately a basically real-time tool

yeah

@Egdarska think of more cool uses for npus

9:29 AM

@Egdarska have you ever used macOS?

9:29 AM

@GoldenX86_64 you too, recently

9:29 AM

i know of a killer app for NPUs

kinda, but not for long

macOS has every file indexed, and you can do cmd+space to fire up spotlight

basically just used it as long as i had to to copy some files

you can use spotlight to run apps, do math, do currency conversions, etc

9:30 AM

and also search in your computer

9:30 AM

and when it does indexing, it also does OCR, and identifies objects into categories

oh

i can literally do this and just get info about photos in the computer (with photos in the library prioritized)

that's actually great

this shit is not "mandatory" to do on NPUs, but thanks to e-cores + npus it means that macOS can do this indexing on battery and it isn't actually noticeable

i hope next windows has an usable search bar

type "the benadryl shadow man" and see what pops up

you still get 12+ hours of battery life with this happening in the background, thanks to e-cores being actually e-cores that max out at like 0.5W per cluster

9:33 AM

you know how in AMD's cpus you have CCXs, so the cores are isolated

9:34 AM

if you have a ryzen 3950x you have four CCXs, and you can actually have some app go hard on everything on one CCX and everything else stays responsive

9:34 AM

Apple does the same, this cpu i am on is 4+4+4 (4+4 for p-cores, 4 e-cores), and the e-cores don't really affect the responsiveness of the system cuz they don't even share L2 (there's no overall L3 here)

9:34 AM

i love that

Egdarska

type "the benadryl shadow man" and see what pops up

i got selfies what now

9:36 AM

i like the random metal pipe crashes

GoldenX86_64

that's actually great

all on-device!

the fastest was a mix of cpu and gpu for the different things

in general the biggest issue is that GPUs are slow to communicate with + they need a lot of time to be fired up

9:41 AM

so if you have something that is done every 100ms of audio, for example, doing it on the CPU will likely be faster (or even better, a properly put together NPU lol)

9:41 AM

but if you can send a bunch of data to the gpu and get it crunched, it'll be FAST

9:43 AM

i wonder whats gonna be the next coprocessor

9:43 AM

we've got media engines, npus, gpus, heck, even cpus are now also separated on different types

9:43 AM

exciting

seperate rgb matrix chips

GoldenX86_64

i hope next windows has an usable search bar

this doesn't solve the problem, but if you install power toys you can use it's search bar feature, power toys run run is waaaaayyyy better and more accurate from my experience and even allows you to do simple stuff with math etc. (edited)

yeah they yoinked krunner

LotP

this doesn't solve the problem, but if you install power toys you can use it's search bar feature, power toys run run is waaaaayyyy better and more accurate from my experience and even allows you to do simple stuff with math etc. (edited)

i use it

1:44 PM

it's very much akin to comparing wordpad to the whole microsoft office suite

1:45 PM

spotlight is just so much better i'm lowkey sad when i don't have it lol

yeah, i originally got it because searching Steam in windows search would only show Sreamlabs kek

also the file searching is faster and more accurate

LotP

yeah, i originally got it because searching Steam in windows search would only show Sreamlabs kek

also the file searching is faster and more accurate

why do you have streamlabs installed isn't it useless

2:43 PM

i installed it like 7 years ago kek

2:44 PM

it has my streaming/recording settings so i just didn't bother switching back to base OBS

Now I want a version of Aliens vs Predator where the human soldiers wear Vision Pros to aid them in combat. https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1aps10e/these_apple_vision_pro_mods_are_getting_wild_this/

From the virtualreality community on Reddit: These Apple Vision Pro...

Explore this post and more from the virtualreality community

LotP

it has my streaming/recording settings so i just didn't bother switching back to base OBS

switch back gidolygun

NVIDIA GeForce™ RTX 30 or 40 Series GPU or NVIDIA RTX™ Ampere or Ada Generation GPU with at least 8GB of VRAM

(edited)

5:43 PM

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/ai-on-rtx/chat-with-rtx-generative-ai/

NVIDIA Chat With RTX

Your Personalized AI Chatbot.

5:43 PM

Wait, 35GB????

35GB for what? Is it going to be better than something like LM Studio?

It's RTX so of course.

6:06 PM

6:07 PM

The package includes LLMs.

35GB is like a medium sized LLM. The large LLMs at a decent quantization level are like 50GB plus. The one I like is 100GB: Goliath 120B Q6 longlora

Is that with compression? I dunno how that'd work.

6:14 PM

Teach me sensei

6:14 PM

Quantization is essentially compression.

squanchy 🥗

Is that with compression? I dunno how that'd work.

The higher quantization level (like Q6 or Q8), the less compressed the model is. It's slower and harder to run, but it's higher quality. The lower quantization level (like Q2 or Q4), the more compressed it is. It's faster and easier to run, but lower quality. I'm still pretty novice at running LLMs myself. The 100GB model I mentioned runs at 0.3 tokens per second on my PC (5800X3D, 128GB DDR4 2800MHz CL16, RTX 4060 Ti 16GB). That's like 3 or 4 seconds per word. As far as I understand it, LLM performance is mostly a function of how much of the model you can get to run on VRAM instead of system RAM. The more of the model size that you get to run in VRAM, the faster it'll run. To run the really large models, you really need multiple high VRAM Nvidia GPUs. Intel GPUs are crap on LLM and apparently AMD GPUs cannot utilize multiple GPUs. I recently ordered a second 4060 Ti 16GB so that I can boost performance running the super large models and I'll probably need a third.

I'm going to save this for when I'm not sleep-deprived.

6:21 PM

Would NVLink / SLI have helped?

6:21 PM

Does 3D V-Cache help?

6:21 PM

I have a 3950X. Sadge

6:22 PM

Wait, does CPU matter at all?

6:22 PM

I have a 4070 12GB

GoldenSun3DS

Hey @exio4 Thanks for recommending LM Studio and giving me advice on it. I've tested some AI models for story writing if anyone wants to see: https://imgur.com/a/53FtQKk This is a test prompt so that I can compare the story writing quality of 3 different models: The Bloke Goat Storytelling 70B Q6 (only works up to 4K context) The Bloke Goliath 120B Q6 (32K context mode via extended context) The Bloke Dolphin 2 6 Mixtral 7B Q6 (32K context)* *2 Mixture of Experts Mode (default) and 8 Mixture of Experts Mode I'm specifically testing its ability to follow my story writing style instructions (1K+ words long) in the system prompt and the story prompt. The 120B model is suuuuuuuuuper slow on my PC. 0.3 tokens per second, which is like 3 or 4 seconds per word. Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 128GB DDR4 2800MHz CL16, RTX 4060 Ti 16GB I'm going to be buying a second 4060 Ti 16GB to boost performance.

I also posted about my testing of LLMs on my PC here: https://discord.com/channels/398318088170242053/729830357666496583/1206022093884497920 I also recorded a video testing performance: https://youtu.be/Eaz-H-3FkZg

GoldenSun3DS - Emulation Enthusiast

Testing Shadow PC Pro (Cloud PC) with LM Studio LLMs (AI Chatbot) a...

squanchy 🥗

Does 3D V-Cache help?

I think maybe, but I'm not sure.

squanchy 🥗

Would NVLink / SLI have helped?

Apparently, SLI does not help unless fine-tuning the model. It (inferencing) apparently also is not PCIE bandwidth sensitive, so I'm going to be using PCIE Gen 3.0 X1 to X16 adaptors for adding more GPUs to my PC lol I've seen some people say that limited PCIE bandwidth might only hurt the speed that it loads in the model. On a related note, you really want the LLM models stored on a fast NVME SSD. I'll find out if PCIE Gen 3 X1 bandwidth hurts performance for inferencing (which means chatting with the bot). Wait for my confirmation before adding GPUs this way just incase I'm wrong. (edited)

I realize I have no idea what kind of work people are actually doing on these local GPU-facilitated LLMs

6:27 PM

@exio4 tipped me off to some Mac ones but I still haven't implemented anything in what I do for work

6:28 PM

AI in my workflow so far is just editing/refining copy for social/comms and the Generative AI stuff Adobe implemented into Photoshop

I still have Shadow PC Pro until February 22nd I think, so I might test the NVidia RTX LLM thing on it. I mostly wanted to test it out, but it's $50 per month for renting a PC in the cloud with 4 (kind of weak) cores, 28GB RAM, but it has RTX A4500 with 20GB VRAM. It's apparently like an RTX 3070 equivalent with more VRAM. Also, the ShadowPC's SSD storage performs like a SATA SSD with read speeds around 500MB per second, so super slow loading in 30GB+ sized models.

squanchy 🥗

Wait, does CPU matter at all?

I think CPU/RAM matters when you're running models that don't fit entirely inside VRAM. But even with 16GB VRAM, the models that fit entirely inside VRAM are kinda small. You also still get a decent performance using models a little bit larger than your VRAM capacity. I don't know exactly how much CPU or RAM speed matters. I don't know of any online benchmarks that test these components for LLM performance.

Eugh I need MI300X.

6:34 PM

adds to Amazon cart

6:34 PM

192GB would be enough for most models, right?

6:34 PM

6:35 PM

Also wait, would this mean models run faster on laptops with LPDDR5X-8500 or whatever?

deadlybydsgn

I realize I have no idea what kind of work people are actually doing on these local GPU-facilitated LLMs

Basically, anything you can do with Chat GPT. They're just less powerful than Chat GPT. I found this interesting: https://youtu.be/zIWqTJu9HaA My sister apparently used Chat GPT to write a resume. Mostly, I just mess around with it. I'm seriously going to try using it to write stories. You need to be very skilled with prompting to get good story results with AI. That means character descriptions, descriptions of every event and action, etc. You're describing it page by page, more like converting your story ideas into novelizations. You can also use it for roleplaying, which includes NSFW roleplaying or NSFW stories. Chat GPT blocks those kinds of things.

ThioJoe

Actually, ChatGPT is INCREDIBLY Useful (15 Surprising Examples)

1

squanchy 🥗

Also wait, would this mean models run faster on laptops with LPDDR5X-8500 or whatever?

A theory is that a server CPU with very high number of RAM channels gets okay performance with just CPU, but I feel like if you invest in something like that, it could get obsoleted by some GPU in 3-5 years (if it's even viable). M2/3 Macs with extremely large RAM capacity is also apparently okay for LLMs because it has unified RAM that is faster than standard RAM. But it still won't match performance of running AI on GPU VRAM.

I don't think I do enough long form writing to mess with it in that form (edited)

GoldenSun3DS

Basically, anything you can do with Chat GPT. They're just less powerful than Chat GPT. I found this interesting: https://youtu.be/zIWqTJu9HaA My sister apparently used Chat GPT to write a resume. Mostly, I just mess around with it. I'm seriously going to try using it to write stories. You need to be very skilled with prompting to get good story results with AI. That means character descriptions, descriptions of every event and action, etc. You're describing it page by page, more like converting your story ideas into novelizations. You can also use it for roleplaying, which includes NSFW roleplaying or NSFW stories. Chat GPT blocks those kinds of things.

writing a resume with a llm is a really bad idea lmao (edited)

Most of the downloadable LLM models seem to be uncensored in regards to NSFW sexual content, and there are some models specifically marked as uncensored.

__fastcall

writing a resume with a llm is a really bad idea lmao (edited)

I didn't see it, so I assume that she fed it all of her info

6:42 PM

Oh, and the M2/3 Macs that I mentioned with very large RAM capacities? Those things are multiple thousands of dollars, so not a cheaper alternative lol

GoldenSun3DS

I didn't see it, so I assume that she fed it all of her info

sure but to have a competitive resume you need to describe your actions in your role, quantify your contributions and intentionally use terms that get pass ATS systems (edited)

6:43 PM

i dont think llms are very good at doing that

If you want more info, I suggest you join "LM Studio" Discord server and "The Bloke" Discord server (use Google) and read discussions there and maybe ask questions. The Bloke is the name of the person (group?) releasing some quantized versions of LLM models that I like to use.

GoldenSun3DS

A theory is that a server CPU with very high number of RAM channels gets okay performance with just CPU, but I feel like if you invest in something like that, it could get obsoleted by some GPU in 3-5 years (if it's even viable). M2/3 Macs with extremely large RAM capacity is also apparently okay for LLMs because it has unified RAM that is faster than standard RAM. But it still won't match performance of running AI on GPU VRAM.

ye

6:49 PM

Why spend £50,000 on an AMD Epyc Zen 5 server when you can just spend £5000 on an RTX 5090.

6:49 PM

6:50 PM

So I keep having to change my work password. I'm running out of symbols to add to the end of my existing one. (edited)

2

Also, interestingly, when you run models that are much larger than your VRAM capacity, the GPU is hardly being used. My 4060 Ti 16GB is at 45C running the 100GB model and MSi AfterBurner shows around 25% to 35% power Utilization. CPU/RAM is that much slower than GPU/VRAM that it causes that much of a bottleneck.

6:57 PM

I really want to see some YouTube channels like Gamer's Nexus or Hardware Unboxed benchmark AI LLMs.

HWU would never do it because they want to stay a gaming channel.

7:27 PM

GN might but I don't think he has the expertise. He'd need to get the help of someone like Level1Techs.

7:28 PM

Aka Tech Gruffalo

7:28 PM

Tech Jesus x Tech Gruffalo collab on LLMs praydge

nah, would be no views in that, or care/demand

7:32 PM

99.9% of people don't care about llms, 89% don't know what they are

Large Lucky strike Mangos

7:42 PM

How much of an upgrade for TOTK would going from a 12700k to a 7700x or 7800X3D yield me? Really looking for 60fps consistent with no slowdowns. 4090 video card. I'm asking because Micro Center has a 7700x combo for $350 and 7800X3D combo for $450 right now.

Somebody answer this man.

7:52 PM

What resolution @mazeroth

4k

Right now the 12700k can't do 60fps consistent. I was spoiled with BOTW on CEMU.

YouTube's search is SO BAD.

7:56 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce3hhyd7Hvs

AnthonyXT

The legend of Zelda: Tears of The kingdom |i7-12700K | RTX 3080 | 1...

7:56 PM

This guy seems to get 4K60 in TOTK?

7:56 PM

Have you enabled XMP in the BIOS @mazeroth ? Install CPU-Z and post a screenshot of the Memory tab. (edited)

XMP enabled. At work now.

Well I dunno, you should definitely get 60fps with a 12700K @ 4K.

Watch the first minute of that video. He's getting dips down to 54 fps.

mazeroth

Right now the 12700k can't do 60fps consistent. I was spoiled with BOTW on CEMU.

i would expect the 12700k to get about 55 fps average in the harder areas to render you can go up to 4k maybe even 8k with a 4090 with basically no loss in frame rate since it's all cpu bottleneck a 7800X/X3D would probably bump that to about 70 fps average

8:06 PM

and a 13700k/13900k is about the same peformance as 7700X and 7800X/X3D iirc (edited)

8:06 PM

also they're using 2x yuzu scaling, you should be using a native resolution mod instead since the result is better (edited)

LotP

and a 13700k/13900k is about the same peformance as 7700X and 7800X/X3D iirc (edited)

Good DDR5 also really helps with Yuzu

8:30 PM

Maybe 5+ FPS vs quality DDR4 3600 cl14 (b-die)

Also, if you're poor like me, beware going into AI Discord servers. They're talking about stuff like six RTX 3090 PC builds lol

mazeroth

How much of an upgrade for TOTK would going from a 12700k to a 7700x or 7800X3D yield me? Really looking for 60fps consistent with no slowdowns. 4090 video card. I'm asking because Micro Center has a 7700x combo for $350 and 7800X3D combo for $450 right now.

7800x3d will handle a smooth 60 just fine

9:27 PM

A 2080 can do 4K—the gpu barely factors as long as it’s half decent with at least 8GB of vram (edited)

deadlybydsgn

7800x3d will handle a smooth 60 just fine

nope

I have one and it does kek

i have one and its does not

9:28 PM

Pebkac

9:28 PM

looooooook

9:28 PM

7800x3d

I don’t know what to tell you except that mine does it fine (edited)

9:30 PM

How much ram do you have?

when you run in open area sure but in kakariko or more demanding area thats not true

9:30 PM

32gb

I got a solid 60 in a fully loaded lookout landing

GoldenSun3DS

A theory is that a server CPU with very high number of RAM channels gets okay performance with just CPU, but I feel like if you invest in something like that, it could get obsoleted by some GPU in 3-5 years (if it's even viable). M2/3 Macs with extremely large RAM capacity is also apparently okay for LLMs because it has unified RAM that is faster than standard RAM. But it still won't match performance of running AI on GPU VRAM.

I'm on an M2 Max with their wide bus, they perform extremely well at AI stuff, but their advantage is more of "you can do this on a laptop now, which wasn't possible/viable before"

deadlybydsgn

I got a solid 60 in a fully loaded lookout landing

what mods do you use ?

Not many

9:32 PM

I’m on 1.0.1 with the 1.5.5 mod for scaling outside of Yuzu. The name escapes me atm

9:33 PM

DynamicFPS

exio4

I'm on an M2 Max with their wide bus, they perform extremely well at AI stuff, but their advantage is more of "you can do this on a laptop now, which wasn't possible/viable before"

"extremely well" relative to their power envelope - e.g. they outperform "raster equivalent AMD" by a long shot, this laptop i've got is only 3060 ish performance, but you could have it 3060 ti ish AI performance... with 80+GB of VRAM, on a laptop on a desktop/workstation, with workloads you can split across GPUs - you're better off doing that, but for big BIG BIG models, you'll start waiting to run workstation boards with more lanes

Dang I missed the part where exio got an m2 max

takanome9104

what mods do you use ?

If I have a chance, and remember after the kids go to bed, I will try to upload a screenshot or two for you. I was kidding around before and wasn’t trying to be a jerk about it, but it really does work well on my system.

9:37 PM

most of the time getting 60fps but its not stable 100%

deadlybydsgn

If I have a chance, and remember after the kids go to bed, I will try to upload a screenshot or two for you. I was kidding around before and wasn’t trying to be a jerk about it, but it really does work well on my system.

if you have afterburner just run normal benchmark and see 1%lows its never stable 60fps

The only hiccups I notice are shader compilations, and those go away completely if I turn on async and don’t mind dealing with wonky weapon icons (edited)

deadlybydsgn

Dang I missed the part where exio got an m2 max

i wish it was a big ram variant

9:43 PM

this is the base model

I won’t pretend to know if it’s 100% scientifically never ever below 60 but it appears like a smooth 60 in OSDs. I can check (edited)

but it's the laptop i have had for a while now

takanome9104

if you have afterburner just run normal benchmark and see 1%lows its never stable 60fps

Use literally any other benchmarking tool if you wanna see accurate 1%lows, afterburner sucks at it

LittleGuy

Use literally any other benchmarking tool if you wanna see accurate 1%lows, afterburner sucks at it

why?

It gets stuck at the lowest value it reach's from my experience with it

bruh isnt that the goal wtf

No that would be Min FPS, 1%low is different

GoldenSun3DS

Apparently, SLI does not help unless fine-tuning the model. It (inferencing) apparently also is not PCIE bandwidth sensitive, so I'm going to be using PCIE Gen 3.0 X1 to X16 adaptors for adding more GPUs to my PC lol I've seen some people say that limited PCIE bandwidth might only hurt the speed that it loads in the model. On a related note, you really want the LLM models stored on a fast NVME SSD. I'll find out if PCIE Gen 3 X1 bandwidth hurts performance for inferencing (which means chatting with the bot). Wait for my confirmation before adding GPUs this way just incase I'm wrong. (edited)

So earlier I was testing it while looking at bus usage in MSi Afterburner. During processing of the tokens, it did show PCIE bus being utilized, but once it started outputting tokens (words), it dropped to zero. I guess I will be finding out how much of a performance penalty there will be going from PCIE Gen 3.0 X8 to X1. My motherboard is Gen 3.0 only and the 4060 Ti is apparently x8 only. To clarify, when it is "processing tokens" is the time it takes to process your input and/or the current context loaded in. Let's say you're starting a fresh chat with default system prompt and you say "Hello". The prompt processing is going to be just a few tokens, so it'll get done fast. Let's say that next, you type in 100 tokens worth of words. Before it can start outputting words, it needs to process those 100 tokens, which is where PCIE bandwidth could potentially become a bottleneck. Let's say that you have a long chat history where between all your messages and the AI's messages comes out to 10,000 tokens. You just ejected the model and reloaded the model. In order for it to continue, it needs to process those 10,000 tokens, which is where PCIE bandwidth has the chance to become a bottleneck. I suspect that an additional RTX 4060 Ti 16GB even at PCIE 3.0 X1 will be faster than not having the GPU if it means having less of the model loaded into RAM. It will certainly have no penalty once it is outputting tokens, so if you wanted to be efficient, you could tell it to make its response at least 1000 words long or something like that (which is what I'm usually doing with stories).

@deadlybydsgn @takanome9104 7800X3D averages about 70 fps but 1% lows are in the 45-55 range (edited)

11:26 PM

data was provided by 1 of the UltraCam 2.0 benchmarks

LotP

@deadlybydsgn @takanome9104 7800X3D averages about 70 fps but 1% lows are in the 45-55 range (edited)

yeah thats match my 7800x3d benchmark tbh

I will admit I am not sensitive to 1% lows, but I’ll check later

deadlybydsgn

I will admit I am not sensitive to 1% lows, but I’ll check later

everybody is sensitive to 1% lows, the question is how much

12:24 AM

i personally dont notice a bit of a frame drop, or slightly increase in frametimes, but any sudden shifts in frametimes are noticeable

It’s likely I may notice it but not care, kind of like how I am with VR. In that case it helps me have great VR legs regardless of performance

deadlybydsgn

It’s likely I may notice it but not care, kind of like how I am with VR. In that case it helps me have great VR legs regardless of performance

nah, it all depends on where your breaking point is

12:32 AM

like, I personally tried guardians of the galaxy - on gamepass, and it would (every 10-15 seconds) "freeze" the camera for like a third of a second

ended up buying it on steam lol

That does sound miserable

12:46 AM

But I played on an old system for so long that I don’t care about little hang ups as much

I appreciate everyone chiming in about my upgrading from 12700k to 7800X3D. I've held off playing TOTK because of my 1% lows as it bothers me. Are you guys seeing noticeable performance improvements with newer versions of Yuzu with TOTK in regards to framerate, or has it been pretty stagnant? I'm fine holding off playing TOTK until this Christmas when I get 2 weeks off work, if it means Yuzu will be better optimized for my 12700K and I don't have to upgrade. I know there's no crystal ball but figured I'd ask what you think the next ~10 months might bring for performance in TOTK, in regards to CPU and framerate.

I mean… it all beats the switch

1:12 AM

I haven’t noticed any big performance gains, but I’m probably not the kind of perspective you’re looking for (edited)

exio4

like, I personally tried guardians of the galaxy - on gamepass, and it would (every 10-15 seconds) "freeze" the camera for like a third of a second

dead space on game pass

2:51 AM

turn freesynced 80fps into 38 non-freesync with this one trick

completely unreleated talk

3:16 AM

who here gets nauseos in vr?

SadSinglePringle

who here gets nauseos in vr?

me when its warm

3:24 AM

i need 15 degrees or less

3:24 AM

25 is the max max

how

i like how samsung keeps calling the side button the bixby button

3:34 AM

as if it's not the first thing samsung owners disable

lol

4:04 AM

true that

Egdarska

as if it's not the first thing samsung owners disable

That is the literally the first thing I did

5:04 AM

I changed to a regular shutdown button

i haven't met a single samsung owner that didn't disable the bixby button

5:23 AM

it's about evenly split between turning it into a regular button, or changing it to google

on my dad's phone it won't let you disable the bixby button unless u sign into a samsung account

5:24 AM

lol, i think they did that for like 2 generations

5:24 AM

and i can't remember which one it was, but one generation straight up didn't let you change it, you needed to force it by rooting

lmao

brand shenanigans go crazy

takanome9104

why you didn't use the one from corsair ? , i have this cable didn't melt on me thank god but i have 4070ti maybe when i upgrade to 4090 i will burn the house we'll see

I haven't had a need to open my case for cleaning or anything yet, when I do It will get swapped in because it will be way cleaner. (edited)

yup single cable great for looks

Superflower sells what appears to be an identical one

2:06 PM

I wish they were more flexible cables but I guess that’s not what you get for $16. Plus I don’t need it yet

putting power plug into the motherboard will solve the issue , but will ruin backward compatibility tho

I haven't done any research do any other PSU's besides corsair/seasonic evga/superflower do the 288w per pciex?

2:18 PM

Or are all the rest at the 150-160?

afaik it's just them, caused me confusion when i had to buy a cable

I'm okay with it going to the PSU. Mobo power plugs feel like more of a PITA to uncouple

2:41 PM

You just have the downside of it usually being potentially messier for airflow

does the intel arc a770 work on yuzu?

Cables really don't restrict airflow much unless you make a huge messy nest of them. (edited)

Waffles

does the intel arc a770 work on yuzu?

I don't know, my A770 has been in a box since I got my 4070 TI, and put the 3070 in the HTPC.

OldManKain

I don't know, my A770 has been in a box since I got my 4070 TI, and put the 3070 in the HTPC.

the compatibility section on the yuzu website is just error 404 so this is the only place i can ask

in my case i don't mind the cables directly plugged to psu , but other small cases will benefit from power plug into the actual motherboard

2:46 PM

this plug can do 600W

OldManKain

Cables really don't restrict airflow much unless you make a huge messy nest of them. (edited)

My case is a weird horizontal desktop case—a lot like the old ones where monitors used to sit on top of them. I got it because it fits nicely into an entertainment set and supports full ATX. So, maybe I'm niche. Anyway, at least in my use case, the PSU is right next to the one side intake fan, so I have to be really deliberate about cabling to avoid spiderwebbing in front of that fan

2:47 PM

But yeah, I guess if I'm thinking of how it would be in my older Fractal Define, it would be less of an issue. I like that case a lot but it's too big for the living room setup

takanome9104

in my case i don't mind the cables directly plugged to psu , but other small cases will benefit from power plug into the actual motherboard

Part of me wonders if something like that could result in more damaged cards from heavy handed builders

nah, when i was fucking around in my case to install my gpu i was thinking it was dumb as shit that we force all this shit to go vertical

2:50 PM

i'll definitely go out of my way to get a horizontal setup if i ever buy a new case

Yay, I feel validated

deadlybydsgn

Part of me wonders if something like that could result in more damaged cards from heavy handed builders

if anything will give support to the pcb tbh

My 2080 isn't particularly heavy, but the 4070Ti TUF I briefly had sure felt like a chonker. I was glad it was going to stand up instead of hang down in a traditional setup (edited)

yea the 4080s i got is the first gpu i've had where it's so damn big i'm worried about sag

i own an unpatched switch, but do i need to revert back to an older version of firmware or OS to use the fusée-gelée exploit? or does it just work?

Waffles

i own an unpatched switch, but do i need to revert back to an older version of firmware or OS to use the fusée-gelée exploit? or does it just work?

Fusee gelee is a hardware exploit it works on any firmware including the latest

ahhh ok

3:15 PM

thanks

Waffles

does the intel arc a770 work on yuzu?

intel cards "work" for yuzu from what i remember

wdym "work?"

if you already have one you can try it, if you were thinking of buying one just buy something else

i already own one

Waffles

wdym "work?"

lots of issues, bad performance, though not as bad these days

bad performance with yuzu specifically? or are you just talking about the bad drivers in the beginning?

both i guess, but specifically yuzu, it lacks some instructions so yuzu has to take the long paths

hm

and of course depending on which games you play you might encounter more issues, because not a lot of testers have intel gpus

ive used it since week 2 of launch and i will say, its gotten WAYYYY better

3:25 PM

im mainly thinking of playing BotW and ToTK

you could probably ask in #yuzu-general for a better answer, this channel is mostly a general hardware channel, not yuzu related

3:28 PM

but yeah, intel support has gotten better

even in fortnite, for a long time it would only work in DX11 where it would get bad stuttery fps and DX12 would crash, but they fixed a lot of that and now DX12 doesnt crash, fps isnt an issue, and even DX11 is a LOTTT better

Waffles

wdym "work?"

Intel GPU, especially xe and arc have a lot of graphical issues and driver crashes in some games

any specific to name a few?

Xc3, totk. I know there is more I just can't remember the games

3:42 PM

Anyways It's much worse compared to Nvidia and amd cards

3:43 PM

Opengl is also completely unusable in most cases

a;right

5:49 PM

That's a woolly system lol

5:57 PM

Fluff for days

two systems actually, heh.

6:00 PM

top 3 from one, bottom 2 from another

I previously mentioned that I didn't really understand "modern" AA methods, but this video is helping: https://youtu.be/WG8w9Yg5B3g

Digital Foundry

Tech Focus: TAA - Blessing Or Curse? Temporal Anti-Aliasing Deep Dive

SadSinglePringle

how

what

Waffles

ive used it since week 2 of launch and i will say, its gotten WAYYYY better

what's the card? A770 16G, A750?

a770 16gb

sick

6:40 PM

i wish i could have an a770 16g, really wondering how well their compute stack holds up, heard good things regarding stability and that, just limited compatibility because it's new

its gotten a LOT better

6:43 PM

it was pretty unstable for a while

6:43 PM

and had a big problem with anything directX for a month

6:43 PM

but after that its been running great

I am so close to buying an A380 as soon as I get some extra $$

6:56 PM

I wanna try real XeSS

6:57 PM

XeSS on my turing gpu or steamdeck looks great, the first first version was a bit mid on XMX but XeSS 1.1 already pushed Intel so ahead in the upscaling game it got me interested

Is it DLSS > XeSS > FSR?

get a matrox luma a380

deadlybydsgn

Is it DLSS > XeSS > FSR?

Yes

deadlybydsgn

Is it DLSS > XeSS > FSR?

DLSS and XeSS XMX are very close, then XeSS XM4, then FSR (edited)

Mango9999

Click to see attachment 🖼️

This isnt as dirty as my ps3

7:24 PM

I opened that up and it was just entirely dust

7:25 PM

(Also the hdmi does not work)

Awesomeangotti

(Also the hdmi does not work)

messed up hdmi port is one of the most common issues i see with them passing through here, and what people ask me to fix most, with the ps3 and xbox 360 both there, as well as xbox one now pretty often too.

7:26 PM

half of the time you can still get some life out of the port.

Mango9999

half of the time you can still get some life out of the port.

On mine it registers on the tv but no video gets sent out

7:26 PM

Fortunately the av port works though!

you just need to sit there and pull/push the cable end in different directions, and apply different pressures, until you find a spot where it barely connects good enough to work, then find a way to secure it that way, whether with tape or even just the weight of the system.

Mango9999

you just need to sit there and pull/push the cable end in different directions, and apply different pressures, until you find a spot where it barely connects good enough to work, then find a way to secure it that way, whether with tape or even just the weight of the system.

Why does it stopcworking

7:27 PM

“Stop working”

i have an xbox one here with that issue there actually where it has to have some small thing propped under the end of it's cable at all times to sort of push up on the port in order for it to work.

7:28 PM

and the contacts just break over time for whatever reason, usually just people being hard on the systems over time, or having cables pulling hard on the port, or etc.

7:28 PM

but yeah, often times you can push it back good enough to use for a while longer, just need to find the spot.

7:29 PM

otherwise after that, the only solution is to replace/resolder a new port, which typically isn't worth it to most people.

7:29 PM

myself included

Dang

Guess i gotta find a component to hdmi converter

be aware of the zen4 + Turing + Polaris user (edited)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVPt0mSaAE

Actually Hardcore Overclocking

Trying PBO2 Tuner on the 5700X3D

Levlight

be aware of the zen4 + Turing + Polaris user (edited)

Polaris?

exio4

Polaris?

not on the ss yeah (edited)

7:55 PM

but yeah Polaris (rx580) (edited)

Brolaris

Levlight

be aware of the zen4 + Turing + Polaris user (edited)

This is a rare moment where a linux user only sends part of their neofetch screenshot instead of the whole thing.

1

~~fastfetch~~

neofetch time :3

fastfetch

Samueru

fastfetch

79

8:39 PM

cursed

Monitor OC

8:39 PM

80Hz doesn't work

Samueru

80Hz doesn't work

do you have VRR?

Nope

79 doesn’t evenly play 24/50/30/60 fps

8:47 PM

i want 600 Hz

8:48 PM

to play 24/25/50/30/60/120 all evenly at the same time

Levlight

be aware of the zen4 + Turing + Polaris user (edited)

Holy crap 5.5ghz???

Awesomeangotti

Holy crap 5.5ghz???

duno why it says that havent seen it go over 5ghz so far¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (edited)

Levlight

duno why it says that havent seen it go over 5ghz so far¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (edited)

Its done it for one nanosecond

meh

I'd say

https://www.phoronix.com/news/COSMIC-Alpha-Is-Close

System76's COSMIC Desktop Nearing Alpha Release

In a Valentine's Day blog post, System76 has outlined how they are nearing the release of their alpha build of the COSMIC desktop environment that they have been developing as part of their Pop!_OS Linux distribution.

9:44 PM

Looks like gnome and hyprland had a baby

Hey could Dozen be effecting other vulkan titles too?

Maybe? I'm not sure

10:33 PM

It should only affect AMD GPUs if at all as there is some conflict with the driver ID there (edited)

man

2:18 AM

i would love an macbook if they were any good for gaming

take the L and buy multiple devices

or just, don't buy a mac

what if they want good laptop speakers

drop $2000 on a laptop for good speakers

2:25 AM

bro

or idk, a trackpad that doesn't make you wanna jump off a bridge

?

Egdarska

drop $2000 on a laptop for good speakers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc

Dave2D

The Mystery Of MacBook Speakers

SadSinglePringle

i would love an macbook if they were any good for gaming

If asashi gets vulkan to work that will be possible, but there is only so much you can do with the igpu either way

if you suck tim cook's silicon banana you can get a max chip which is 3060 and upwards in raw performance

exio4

what if they want good laptop speakers

sony xm4s better (edited)

SadSinglePringle

sony xm4s better (edited)

WH?

2:27 AM

nah

2:27 AM

WF maybe idk i havent tried them

why would you want good laptop speakers

2:28 AM

just buy headphones

2:28 AM

viola

exio4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc

i'm not arguing they're not better, they are, just that i doubt it's a normal person's main concern

2:28 AM

if it is then they'd buy one anyway

2:28 AM

first of all, i don't even personally know anyone who doesn't use headphones

they're expensive laptops, they can be a concern and one of the reasons they consider it (battery life, fan noise, speakers, etc) but gaming is a dealbreaker (edited)

2:29 AM

like for me battery life is a deal breaker for a general purpose device

actually, there's another dealbreaker for me with the m2 macbooks unless there's models with different keyboards

if its a gaming-only device i can live, because it dying on a charge doesn't mean i have to stop watching cat videos

the fucked up arrow keys

they all have those

2:30 AM

i think

2:30 AM

i assume you mean them being small

discustang

2:31 AM

also no numpad

idk i never had a problem, like i actually am keyboard agnostic as long as they have no numpad

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Use vim keybinds, problem solved

my keyboard right now is actually in german layout

2:31 AM

azerty lol

2:31 AM

err, qwertz

though you can do it the apple way and buy a numpad arrow dongle

i forgor, i had to look up (or more like, down, to the keyboard itself) (edited)

i'm really tempted to buy a second laptop just for carrying around, one of the 14" thinkpads

2:32 AM

they have the paddle trackpad buttons i love, and the clit mouse

i havent used a thinkpad in years

2:33 AM

i assume their trackpads have finally got multi-touch in the last decade tho

they've had for a long time

that's the key, the one i did had it too

2:34 AM

but it wasn't good at picking up gestures lol

Egdarska

i'm not arguing they're not better, they are, just that i doubt it's a normal person's main concern

i feel like speakers are important, youre just special because youre deaf tbh

nah, even with good ears, i wouldn't use laptop speakers because other people don't need to listen to what i'm doing

dont you ever are alone

and at home i'd just use headphones, or actual speakers if i have to

have u ever used a bluetooth speaker

2:36 AM

macbooks shit on them

yes, and also my wired speakers

the bar is low yes (edited)

i doubt they shit on my old stacks

and saying "spend $500 more on a laptop for it" is also stupid

in no world am i ever choosing a laptop speaker if it's not a mac and probably even then

i just don't like not using headphones

I dont speakers on my desktop pc, it is headphones only

i'd need a subwoofer to feel ok without headphones, and i can't because apartments

i use my laptop speakers for background noise if im vibing around the room, my homepod mini sounds worse (duh) and logitech z407 are meh

Egdarska

i'd need a subwoofer to feel ok without headphones, and i can't because apartments

the laptops have subwoofers

2:38 AM

they're tiny

lol

but hey, they exist

2:38 AM

technically

big "rocm exists" vibes

have u actually listened to a macbook

yes

2:39 AM

subwoofers aren't just for listening to bass, you can't hear the really low frequencies

really low = 50 hz?

2:39 AM

yeah 130 or so is the limit for the macs

18-20

2:40 AM

that's not a subwoofer lmao

i dont think my airpods go that low

2:40 AM

arent subwoofers for lows

2:40 AM

<200 hz

yes, but the lowest frequency matters

fair

my old sony stacks had 3 speakers in them, a bass speaker for around 150-500, the regular speaker, and the chirper, and it still needed a subwoofer

2:42 AM

you can't really feel the thump from 150hz

nah i mean 130 is where they start tapering off lol

2:42 AM

what is your laptop or the closest notebook check has reviewed

i don't know if they've reviewed it

exio4

i dont think my airpods go that low

Most headphones can play 20 Hz, might be -20dB below ideal level but they can

Samueru

Most headphones can play 20 Hz, might be -20dB below ideal level but they can

i dont think that counts

yeah, we're talking speakers

i am pretty sure the airpods go down to 20 hz

most decent ones do, they just can't reproduce it well

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

2:45 AM

lol

2:45 AM

20 hz for half a second is REALLY FUCKING loud

2:45 AM

before the throttling kicks in

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param6.php?&idmain=1203&ls=3&tit_stand=2&addlistgroup=-2&cl0=%23000000&cl2_0=%23000000&stand0=HDM-X%C2%A0in%C2%A0ear&idhp0=1203&report_page=1#gsc.tab=0

Comparing changes in frequency and sound pressure as a function of ...

Comparing changes in frequency and sound pressure as a function of the applied voltage and a impedance of an amplifier - Direct comparison of graphs Reference Audio Analyzer

if you have a 20 hz beat that lets the subwoofer cool down it'll be loud

2:46 AM

i guess

Holy shit the airpods are horrible

airpods pro @Samueru

2:46 AM

airpods non-pro aren't sealed

mine advertise as low as 7HZ, but it only goes down to 11

2:46 AM

i want my money back

they will be forever shit

yes the pros go down to 20 hz but i can't hear shit

2:46 AM

you feel it more than anything

yeah, under 18 you don't really hear it

2:47 AM

technically

2:47 AM

you "feel" the pressure which is what sound is, but it's different

35 hz is when i dont hear it on the laptop

but with mine i do "hear" 11

as a constant noise

2:48 AM

lol a square noise at 17 hz is fucking loud

2:48 AM

got jump scared

2:48 AM

the harmonics are loud as fuck that is what they are called right

Square waves are full of harmonics, so yeah

i can only really hear down to 16 and that's on something way nicer than the airpods

i cant remember sound terminology

greggle

i can only really hear down to 16 and that's on something way nicer than the airpods

i can hear 11 on some $27 wired buds

2:49 AM

i love them tho

is this a bluetooth limitation?

well really i lied

2:50 AM

i can 'hear' down to 8

2:50 AM

but it kind of makes me feel schizophrenic so i'll cap it at 10

exio4

is this a bluetooth limitation?

shouldn't be, isn't it using apple's bluetooth whatever?

airpods are standard bluetooth, the apple shit is for the gimmicks

ah

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param6.php?&idmain=2352&ls=3&tit_stand=2&addlistgroup=-2&cl0=%23000000&cl2_0=%23000000&stand0=SIEC&idhp0=2352&report_page=1#gsc.tab=0

Comparing changes in frequency and sound pressure as a function of ...

Comparing changes in frequency and sound pressure as a function of the applied voltage and a impedance of an amplifier - Direct comparison of graphs Reference Audio Analyzer

then maybe

uhh

Airpods pro are better

i can "hear" something at low hz

it's uncomfortable to listen to frequencies that low though, my ear balls don't like it

1

yeah

it's supposed to make you feel weird

2:51 AM

don't know why tho

2:51 AM

but we hate low frequencies

i'm pretty sure most nicer stuff does go all the way to 0 if you've got giga hearing

20 hz feels weird

it's actually really hard to go that low and still have something that can produce normal sounds

i didnt know airpods went that low

2:52 AM

what is a song that uses 20 hz

2:53 AM

meaningfully

i think mine only go so low because they cheat by having 2 drivers in the buds

i would guess most music that goes that low taps out at 50-60 hz

2:54 AM

i'm sure there's an extremely specific genre of music that uses 20 hz just to be edgy

exio4

what is a song that uses 20 hz

i haven't actually tested but this song feels like it's one of the lowest i've heard https://youtu.be/oWzzNvcxY4w?t=903

Negative Wingspan

Machine Girl - WLFGRL (2014) [Full Album]

2:56 AM

there's like 5 layers of bass

i still find funny that airpods pro 2 are on tsmc 7nm

i guess i could just check with audacity

i'd be surprised if that was lower than 40

actually i just remembered it's youtube

2:57 AM

so it would get fucked anyway

my very scientific test of playing a frequency next to that song reveals that it's somewhere between 50-60

i dont hear more/less bass (frequencies) on the macbook pro, just that they're LOUD (on app2) (edited)

2:59 AM

i guess thats expected

according to audacity's spectrum analyzer there's audible sounds at like 36HZ, but the peak is at 40

3:03 AM

that's the lowest song i could think of, there's probably some indie band with an album with a full verse as the name that has done it just to be special

exio4

i use my laptop speakers for background noise if im vibing around the room, my homepod mini sounds worse (duh) and logitech z407 are meh

wireless headphones?

3:06 AM

although

SadSinglePringle

wireless headphones?

i had xm4s and they were e-waste

bruh

3:07 AM

which ones?

lol, i forgot you actually bought xm4s

headphones or buds?

i prefer my laptop over wh1000xm4

3:07 AM

headphones

makes sense

i am never buying a sony audio product lol

3:07 AM

again

3:07 AM

they've burned me

the earbuds are just better

3:07 AM

but at the same time

3:07 AM

i'm biased

Hear me out but some random audio receiver i found in the basement

nah, their old speakers were god tier

as my roommates

yeah but i have apple shit so i'll pick up airpods pro instead

do not like my music

they're shit now tho

exio4

i am never buying a sony audio product lol

true

app2 are likely better at transparency mode anyway

3:08 AM

which is how i use my in-ears

3:08 AM

i'll pick airpods max 2 when they update them and i have money

3:09 AM

i prefer headphones and transparency mode is just too good on app2, i wonder what it is like on the max

3:09 AM

i didn't try my friend's airpods max when i tried their susvara so i missed that lol

3:09 AM

i only realized later when i saw them around on a photo i took there

3:10 AM

@greggle youve tried the max i assume?

shite

im waiting for them second one

3:11 AM

but im wondering transparency mode

3:11 AM

how good is it

they have like 150 eagle sound quality

im not buying them now

3:11 AM

i am buying them when they get the glow-up the app2 got

that's probably generous considering i've heard cheaper headphones i liked more

greggle

they have like 150 eagle sound quality

so they moved the beats engineers to the apple headphones division

im assuming transparency mode is good tho

they have a lot of useless noise going on, like the resolution of them just sucks

3:12 AM

everything sounds like a bit compressed youtube video

that sucks

3:12 AM

but uh, what about transparency mode

great noise cancellation tho

3:13 AM

i don't think i've ever tried transparency

ah

the sound quality is bad enough to tank them for me, plus the charging diaper

i haven't been told max are good ever, even as an overall product, but if the max 2 are good enough™️ i'd be happy

3:14 AM

i want headphones that do transparency mode so hard

3:14 AM

i also want anc

yea i'd love to buy a max that didn't suck ass (edited)

exio4

i want headphones that do transparency mode so hard

Get the koss porta pros then lol

frankly i would spend like 250 eagles if i saw the current max on sale but apple never discounts them

i mostly want headphones for when im out in winter, airpods pro 2 sound weird as fuck if you cover your ears and you have something slowly move alongside them

yea and the porta pros sound better if you're not listening to edm or jpop

i listen to edm a lot

they can't keep up with fast music

so no hyperpop

3:16 AM

on them

3:17 AM

but also "transparency mode" as a feature only makes sense if you have any noise cancellation

3:17 AM

like transparency mode doesn't make on normal airpods

3:17 AM

that's just them existing

afaik the only good true wireless overears are still the two audeze gaming sets and focal bathys

yeah i heard focal bathys are good

3:17 AM

and an australian homie saw them for 300 USD

3:17 AM

sick deal

crazy that sennheiser still hasn't made a good momentum

i just want anc + transparency mode as options

3:19 AM

i didnt think apple's transparency mode was this good until i tried it

3:19 AM

and now they made me a simp

3:19 AM

lol

exio4

and now they made me a simp

i'm sure that took a lot of coaxing

yea

3:20 AM

https://soundcloud.com/marshmellomusic/marshmello-x-hol-movement

3:20 AM

@Egdarska just got this song on my release radar

3:20 AM

i laughed because its the most dubstep song i have heard in like a year

3:21 AM

i like it tho im a basic bitch

3:21 AM

how do you check the frequency response of the song

3:21 AM

i assume its 50 hz like everything else

3:22 AM

ok it got boring

3:22 AM

it goes for too long should be 120 seconds not 200+ (edited)

you can use audacity's spectrum plot to see where it peaks

i already moved to the next song and im gonna make msyelf some pizza

but it's not exact because there's no good way to separate individual frequencies like that

didnt our homie fourier solve this forever ago

3:24 AM

i need to fucking work i have been vibing for too long

3:24 AM

and its past midnight, F

for the overall frequencies yes, homing in to one frequency is a bit harder

3:25 AM

i guess another use for ai

dont harmonics only go one way

3:25 AM

either way, for when u have bass problems just listen to lo-fi

3:25 AM

ez

@exio4

wack

you can basically ignore roll-offs because they won't be the "real" frequency that played

3:32 AM

so just focus on peaks, looks like lowest is 40ish

that explains why my laptop did sound much weaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwls5SpNn1s

Kaze Emanuar

How we BEAT the Limitations that defined the N64s Artstyle

3:43 AM

this guy is too powerful

return to yoshi's island will be amazing if kaze ever actually releases it

i'm honestly just happy seeing him turn the 64 inside out

3:49 AM

the demo was cool tho

Fun fact, the Mario 64 ds model has less polygons than the original mario 64 model on the n64

they probably shaved a lot not having to do the weird connector bits between limbs

yeah, the ds model looks better overall

4:00 AM

at least to me

4:00 AM

also the ds model had quads because ds, so the actual triangle count is closer than it seems

i mean i prefer the nintendo 64 model

4:02 AM

now that we're firmly past plastic mario i really don't like mario's design from like 2000-3d world

i prefer the mario wonders model

i prefer the luigi's mansion model

i need to buy a coca cola

or brawl

and get to work, i just took my meds

4:03 AM

and opened a redbull

4:03 AM

i can't wait to finally get to work after 2am

4:03 AM

my 7-8 am deadline looking real hot rn

i hate smash mario

4:03 AM

it's because he's so mad

4:04 AM

i've never understood why smash mario is so pissed

because he just wants to race and host games but the hand of god makes him fight

4:04 AM

i'd be pissed too

doesn't seem to piss luigi off

luigi is built different

luigi's a sociopath

4:05 AM

luigi

plastic mario sucked though, hd mario is much better

i love how i have no idea how any marios look

4:06 AM

i haven't even watched the movie

4:06 AM

nah, luigi is more

there's three eras of mario; the wild west of arcade-n64 where you never got the same mario twice, plastic mario from sunshine-nsmb2/u, and hd mario from 3d world on

exio4

i haven't even watched the movie

put your ai shit to good use and dub the movie with mario's game voice

4:07 AM

not charles, the noises from mario & luigi

hd mario's defining difference is being allowed to have emotions

voita berta budde baba

but he's also a little pudgier so it's more fun to watch him scurry around

4:08 AM

plastic mario had two emotions: mouth open, mouth closed, and he ran like a dweeb

i really like the odyssey model

yea odyssey is the best mario has ever looked

4:09 AM

i'll give smash mario that i like him more than plastic mario

movie mario has some cool ideas, i like that he's wearing a typical american worker uniform with rated gloves and shoes and shirt

what

but the button up looks wrong on mario and i really hate his proportions

4:12 AM

still better than plastic mario

the face just looks weird

4:13 AM

bowser is perfect for jack black though

his face looks fine in the movie but i agree that no promo render makes the face look good

I never did figure out how to get ray traced Mario 64 working

4:14 AM

It was like “compile it” and I was like wat

the best mario model

I started going thorough the instructions but fell away at some point and never got back to it

i wish they'd let devs go crazy with mario like it was before sunshine, they didn't even really let square do dwarf rpg mario in a way i liked

rtx mario 64 is just ok, you didn't miss much

i need to play it

I was far enough into a file in RetroArch to not care to start over anyway

i wonder if there's a metal version somehow

Dx12 to metal somehow? I dunno

the original mario movie is underrated

4:17 AM

if you're willing to meet it where it is it's a thrilling fever dream

finally a contrarian greg opinion i agree with

4:19 AM

i hope they start doing rtx versions of gc games at some point

Speaking of that era, I just heard Henry Cavill is heading up a new Highlander movie

luigi's mansion with rtx would be an actual improvement

meh

4:20 AM

i mean i would rather they do some lazy rtx shit than actually remake luigi's mansion again

I never really played those

they haven't remade luigi's mansion

4:20 AM

they butchered it for 3ds

Egdarska

i hope they start doing rtx versions of gc games at some point

n64

but it's hard for me to think that luigi's mansion 3 would look better with ray tracing

4:21 AM

a demake is still a remake

i want rtx virtua racing

because it looks really good

RTX Quest 64 thonking

but the original would probably look better, if not rtx then with baked lighting

4:21 AM

basically i'd be happy with a lm3 engine remake of luigi's mansion

I would welcome a Shadows of the Empire remake though

autohdr went from meh at 400 nits to goddamn amazing at 1300 with the aoc, totk is pretty with it

the most i would want them to waste time on is a remake that brings it to lm3 levels, fuck ray tracing (edited)

show me on the doll where the rays touched you

1

no, it's where remakes touched me

4:22 AM

the rays can do whatever they want

rays touch almost everywhere, then they lie and say it was everywhere

i like remakes when they're of old enough games

it's an opportunity cost thing

GoldenX86_64

rays touch almost everywhere, then they lie and say it was everywhere

"and everything it doesn't will be added with the denoiser"

i'm gonna get a job at nintendo and suggest we remake ocarina of time again just to spite greg

would you rather play luigi's mansion again or luigi's mansion 4? a proper remake of luigi's mansion would take uncharitably as long to make and charitably 3/4 of the time to make

4:24 AM

and they would absolutely make next level do it

Just hire that guy doing it in UE5

deer sold separately

at least zelda remakes have their own dedicated team

4:25 AM

but i think it's a shame nintendo won't let grezzo make a fully new 2d zelda

i can see them offloading other remeakes to grezzo

I want more 2D Zelda. I really enjoyed LBW

since no one bought their original game

Or maybe give us a crazy new Zelda 2

Egdarska

i'm gonna get a job at nintendo and suggest we remake ocarina of time again just to spite greg

4K textures prometheus

(edited)

4:26 AM

I'd pay $100 for that game

If rather have a FFVI remake

Egdarska

i like remakes when they're of old enough games

same cyberpunk needs a remake already

ocarina of time rtx hd with exclusive motion controls for switch

ps4 is last gen

i hate all these main team remakes because it just makes the actual new thing take way longer and the side team remakes make me sad because often they make me think those teams could really make great new lower budget games in those series

exio4

same cyberpunk needs a remake already

we start counting from the moment the game is finished

PS5 is now in its “latter days” per Sony

resident evil 4 didn't need a remake especially because it directly 'delays' resident evil 9

Mormon Edition incoming /s

i liked re4 remake tho

wait is it me or did nvidia fix gsync on yuzu?

I'd tell you, but...

re4make was good but really shattered my desire to play any remakes

4:29 AM

i was alive when these games were new dammit

yep, nvidia fixed the gsync issue

greggle

i was alive when these games were new dammit

its ok time comes to all of us

GoldenX86_64

wait is it me or did nvidia fix gsync on yuzu?

wot

single window qt thing, if gsync or gsync compatible was enabled, games would boot and get stuck to 24-27 FPS on NVIDIA

4:32 AM

works fine now with 551.52

bing bing vs ding dong really would've been fine just getting an nso release, it's the worse game between it and dk 94 anyway

4:32 AM

they could've at least remade dk 94 instead seeing as it's an og gameboy game

also @exio4 fast VA is no joke

4:34 AM

unless you check viewing angles, it's basically IPS

GoldenX86_64

single window qt thing, if gsync or gsync compatible was enabled, games would boot and get stuck to 24-27 FPS on NVIDIA

wack

GoldenX86_64

unless you check viewing angles, it's basically IPS

why viewing angles

it's between ips and tn in viewing angles

4:45 AM

not as colour inverting tn, but not rock solid like ips

4:45 AM

there's some gamma shift

oh yeah, but it never dies like TNs did imo

and black smearing must be recorded to be seen

it is like, colors are slightly inaccurate (unless you're seriously off axis)

yeah, you still get the intended image

4:46 AM

but it's not "perfect" like ips

yeah i thought you meant it was TN-like and that felt wrong lol

4:46 AM

where you just get a seizure-simulator

white is purple!

4:47 AM

no, you get for example yellow getting an orange tint, but nothing worse besides that

tint seems accurate

4:48 AM

it's not a shift it's a tint lol

i kinda miss the days of your display being spy-proof because you have to look at it head on to see anything

4:52 AM

now people can be at 170 degrees and still read everything

you can get that

4:52 AM

just coat it

4:53 AM

also, spy-proof screens exist already

4:53 AM

https://us.shop.xreal.com/products/xreal-air-2-pro

XREAL Air 2 Pro

Air2 Pro. The ultimate wearable display experience. Ships in 5 work days. Explore >> Connectivity: USB-C DisplayPort Items Included: Glasses Unit Prescription Lens Frame (Details available on XREAL's official website or through our partner, JUN GINZA) Detachable USB Type-C Cable Light Shield Three types of Nose P

4:53 AM

now my problem is targetin 180 fps

i remember making ghetto spy proof screens by removing the polarizing filter

4:54 AM

and making glasses out of it

aaand forza still loads the amd card even when you force the nvidia

4:55 AM

microsoft coding be like

i had that happen, i had to add it to graphics options and choose high performance manually

4:56 AM

don't know how that would work with 2 dgpus

4:56 AM

probably badly since microsoft

i have it enforced to high performance and it still uses the ayymd

does it only have one executable?

4:57 AM

and also, is it the microshit store version?

it's steam

4:57 AM

afaik that's all it has

greggle

would you rather play luigi's mansion again or luigi's mansion 4? a proper remake of luigi's mansion would take uncharitably as long to make and charitably 3/4 of the time to make

luigi's mansion dark moon > 3 ngl

i really like the one where luigi gets a time machine

i like when mario says "we really need to drive these ghosts out of Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon™️ "

@exio4 https://www.techpowerup.com/318426/top-amd-rdna4-part-could-offer-rx-7900-xtx-performance-at-half-its-price-and-lower-power

6:20 AM

bruh

>Apparently, the top Radeon RX SKU based on the next-gen RDNA4 graphics architecture will offer performance comparable to that of the current RX 7900 XTX, but at less than half its price (around the $400 mark). It is also expected to achieve this performance target using a smaller, simpler silicon, with significantly lower board cost, leading up to its price. What's more, there could be energy efficiency gains made from the switch to a newer 4 nm-class foundry node and the RDNA4 architecture itself; which could achieve its performance target using fewer numbers of compute units than the RX 7900 XTX with its 96. this is cool!

6:21 AM

finally a 4060 Ti competitor

6:21 AM

i mean, at $400 it's almost worth it

6:21 AM

but they're not even trying to rech even mid tier

yeah, XTX performance for $400 is actually decent

6:21 AM

but i doubt it happens lol

i still can't believe they actually asked $1000 for the original

6:22 AM

in what world is that a good deal for anyone but the dumbest amd simp?

6:23 AM

i had my bets on like $750 with a planned "surprise" slash to 650 a couple months later'

its faster than a 4080 in raster

but i didn't count on amd being amd

:copium:

which one is the card they realized was priced fucking stupid and they changed the price after they already sent the marketing?

6:24 AM

6500?

uhh quite a few

6:24 AM

RX 7600 also had that

i remember one was like on launch day "we fucked up, it's actually $100 cheaper"

exio4

but i doubt it happens lol

There's no way

Moonlacer

There's no way

yup

6:44 AM

amd thinks they should be raster off a bad way performance tier kind of deal

Moonlacer

Finally it's time

So how did this work out for you?

My house isn't large, but there's a kitchen and pantry between our router and the bedrooms/bathroom, and the signal sometimes gets iffy on that end. We had our electric system overhauled a few years ago, so I might try it out. If my router was more centralized, I probably wouldn't need anything, but I suspect that's a common issue.

just run a long ass ethernet cable

3:15 PM

thats what i did for my brother who lives downstairs as the router is far away upstairs

I do that for very temporary scenarios, but it doesn't make sense for this

deadlybydsgn

My house isn't large, but there's a kitchen and pantry between our router and the bedrooms/bathroom, and the signal sometimes gets iffy on that end. We had our electric system overhauled a few years ago, so I might try it out. If my router was more centralized, I probably wouldn't need anything, but I suspect that's a common issue.

I don't know about those, but i bought some similar ones but tlc brand, they're pretty good

4:22 PM

But since they repeat the signal they're not great for game streaming or stuff like that, i notice some added latency, not unplayable but significant

4:22 PM

Perfect for normal use tho

deadlybydsgn

My house isn't large, but there's a kitchen and pantry between our router and the bedrooms/bathroom, and the signal sometimes gets iffy on that end. We had our electric system overhauled a few years ago, so I might try it out. If my router was more centralized, I probably wouldn't need anything, but I suspect that's a common issue.

Works fine, just varies wildly with how your house is wired

Egdarska

i remember one was like on launch day "we fucked up, it's actually $100 cheaper"

5500 iirc

4:33 PM

And the "oops 5600 is not competitive, let's force vendors to overclock it without testing time"

Moonlacer

Works fine, just varies wildly with how your house is wired

what speed do you get?

https://www.techpowerup.com/319073/intel-core-i9-14900ks-draws-as-much-as-409w-at-stock-speeds-with-power-limits-unlocked

4:47 PM

how the F can anyone cool that

takanome9104

how the F can anyone cool that

Already fixed the CPU cooler problem on my 14700k with all power limits removed on Bios (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), Idle temps are at 25-27 C but loud noise (500-600 RPM fan speed and with room temp around 20-22 C, winter temps), all core load 83 C but full rpm spin on the cooler (edited)

disrupt0r

Already fixed the CPU cooler problem on my 14700k with all power limits removed on Bios (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), Idle temps are at 25-27 C but loud noise (500-600 RPM fan speed and with room temp around 20-22 C, winter temps), all core load 83 C but full rpm spin on the cooler (edited)

do you hit the thermal limit during r23 bencmark ? , ive build for my brother pc with same cpu and artic freezer 360 it hit thermal limit after r23 run

takanome9104

do you hit the thermal limit during r23 bencmark ? , ive build for my brother pc with same cpu and artic freezer 360 it hit thermal limit after r23 run

Yes, CPU did throttle in r24 multicore benchmark . But after 10min run, temps where staying between 86-92 C, never beyond 95 C. (edited)

this is the annoying issues with these intel cpus every year they increase the power, at some point they need to focus on power instead on performance thats really stupid

5:23 PM

Intel is going thru their FX moment

Samueru

Intel is going thru their FX moment

10GHz record when?

takanome9104

Click to see attachment 🖼️

this is more accurate we dont need total system power

I don't even know what the record is these days, i think it was 9GHz

Egdarska

I don't even know what the record is these days, i think it was 9GHz

I could run totk at 60 fps on my 8700 if that was the case

Well idle temps + power usage are ... as expected, even though Hyper-V is enabled , and WSL2 ubuntu 22.04 is running on the background. (edited)

i got a system down to just above 0c earlier

6:16 PM

once or twice a month during the winter i'll just kill the heat entirely, open all windows, and just sit for a couple hours in my jacket and stuff letting the house air out, wind fly through, etc. until it feels super fresh and is same temp as outside and etc. then i'll get it all back goin again.

6:17 PM

sometimes though i'll take the chance to run a lower power system just to see it's temps though too, heh.

messin with an amd apu oc right now, and just can't seem to break 4.2-4.3ghz with it, unfortunate.

6:43 PM

i mean, it still will boost stable a bit past it, if i keep it set to actual 4.3 or lower, and will then run around 4.5-4.6 or so, but that's it.

6:46 PM

normal base is 3.6 and boost is 3.9. and 4.3 and 4.5 essentially is the spot i can hit. any sliver higher totally still will run on desktop and stuff all the way up to almost 5ghz, but crashes and has obvious stability issues in games and etc.

6:46 PM

in fact, 4.6 and 4.7 still make it fully in game into gta v and will run for a bit, but running the benchmark crashes it.

6:47 PM

all said, have gta v running with a 50-60fps average on it with it's integrated graphics, not bad.

6:49 PM

oh, just finally had some instability at 4.3-4.5. that's fine though, tells me 4.2-4.4 is essentially guaranteed, and 100mhz won't change much.

Mango9999

i got a system down to just above 0c earlier

you mean weather temp 0c but the system can go beyond 10c easily or even 20c right ?

takanome9104

you mean weather temp 0c but the system can go beyond 10c easily or even 20c right ?

idle temp was 2, load temps started approaching 8-10 almost though sometimes

what cpu ?

i5 2500s. same one i did it with last time

6:51 PM

2400s i mean

i see

6:52 PM

65w

6:52 PM

intel come back please

yeah, probably the absolute worst sandy bridge i5 that exists that isn't a mobile or ulp chip, hehe

6:53 PM

being so low power and efficient compared to the others though, makes it run pretty cool, even under normal situations

6:53 PM

didn't take any pics this time, but these are the ones from last time, just wasn't as cold that day, heh.

6:54 PM

but yeah, just a fun experiment for me sometimes just to see how cool a system can run just on air and with it's oem cooler and etc.

7c idle

right there i have the side panel right off the system and open side facing out the window during winter

takanome9104

7c idle

yeah, it's max hit like 14 or 15 or something if i recall correctly when i was running gta

takanome9104

you mean weather temp 0c but the system can go beyond 10c easily or even 20c right ?

F i was 5c away

Mango9999

yeah, it's max hit like 14 or 15 or something if i recall correctly when i was running gta

oh you didnt run stress tests?

that 2400s there i do have to give credit i guess, it does exceed it's expectations usually with most things when i do use it. even fully passed the vr test back when i did a wave of that with it. was paired with a kepler gtx 670 for the test. was able to actually do quite quite a bit.

takanome9104

oh you didnt run stress tests?

nah, not for that specifically no, just bored

6:57 PM

if i truly had a record breaking cold day, and was actually in the mood do go as crazy as possible, and maybe make a content piece out of it or something, then i would maybe get that into it.

who needs ln2 when you have antarctica prometheus

6:59 PM

7:00 PM

neat, 4.5 and holding it there at all times, perfect

7:00 PM

well, close

7:02 PM

passed all basic desktop and browser tests, gta is fine, benchmark runs entirely whole way through with zero issue, system restarts consistenly every time, and been pegging it for a few minutes now to let it go for a little while. so think it's good to go.

7:03 PM

i also have a laptop i need to start working on at the same time as these other couple too here soon.

7:04 PM

laptop is an interesting piece, one that i only have a few of here actually, a laptop with a core duo (not core 2 duo) cpu in it, which is neat.

7:05 PM

they aren't great at all by any means, but are cool pieces to collect up now.

7:05 PM

the notorious intel gma950 for it's graphics

7:05 PM

same chip used in all those earliest netbooks and other similar things

Mango9999

neat, 4.5 and holding it there at all times, perfect

Why is that faster than my 8700

oh it's not, heh

4.5Ghz of the slowest cores in existence

i basically sort of consider them for what they are, as opposed to what they were advertised or intended to be. which puts them much more into perspective and make a bit more sense.

8:55 PM

the way it was though, had them competing against things they could never beat.

8:56 PM

otherwise, without getting into the whole shitshow of it, because of how they were made around those generations, things like cinebench and others will read a quad core as a dual core with hyperthreading, and etc. even though they technically are not obviously. but at the same time, the way they work, essentially have that performance.

8:56 PM

so if you just ignore their lies and consider them to be half the core count with hyperthreading and compare them to intel chips of the same, they start to totally line up and make sense.

8:57 PM

but yeah, as advertised, people had them competing against true full power quads from intel at the time, making them a big joke.

Phenom

Three cores of pain

@exio4 did you see the 3050 6gb numbers

2:35 AM

6500xt moment, with encoding, but at the price of the 6600

2:35 AM

Worse performance than the 1660s

cringe

They made an already bad value gpu even worse

another "but dlss" moment for the low end

3:04 AM

it needs to use performance to surpass a 1660 ti, at 1080p

speaking of dlss

3:22 AM

i don't think i can buy anything other than nvidia at this point

3:22 AM

dlss is just too good

valve prism just dropped

>tongue tracking

5:34 AM

5:35 AM

i think the funniest part isn't any of the joke specs, it's rdna3 for vr

RDNA3 is fine for VR

5:57 AM

once av1 is the standard for encoding kek

Just use 200Mbps

lowkey they had me psyched out for like 1 minute

7:01 AM

before i started actually reading

SadSinglePringle

lowkey they had me psyched out for like 1 minute

it had other people fooled too https://web.archive.org/web/20240215034506/https://www.notebookcheck.net/Valve-launches-counter-strike-on-Vision-Pro-with-new-Prism-headset-featuring-custom-AMD-APU.803328.0.html

Valve launches counter-strike on Vision Pro with new Prism headset ...

Valve has launched a high-end standalone headset dubbed the Prism with specs capable of taking on the Apple Vision Pro. With a starting price of $1,299 versus $3,499 starting price of the Vision Pro, and including full PC compatibility, the Valve Prism is shaping up as a potential Vision Pro killer.

7:09 AM

they deleted it lol

Nice

can I ask a HWfly related question and the OLED RST point?

GoldenX86_64

once av1 is the standard for encoding kek

it already is, its just that amd underperforms

Egdarska

it had other people fooled too https://web.archive.org/web/20240215034506/https://www.notebookcheck.net/Valve-launches-counter-strike-on-Vision-Pro-with-new-Prism-headset-featuring-custom-AMD-APU.803328.0.html

i looked at the screens, were too high res for a consumer product

SadSinglePringle

dlss is just too good

xess needs to ship in more games

10:52 AM

xess xmx is also good

no

no??

11:01 AM

xess > FSR

OldManKain

xess > FSR

XeSS XMX > XeSS DP4a > FSR but DLSS and XeSS XMX trade blows supposedly, so I hope I can pick up an Arc gpu at some point to try them

Even DP4a looks good

exio4

i looked at the screens, were too high res for a consumer product

Too low tbh

7:35 PM

Wake me up when we have 8192x8192 per cone (edited)

OldManKain

xess > FSR

Shit>>>fsr

I haven't tried upscaling with Shit yet. Which method does it use?

With WHAT?

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/s/vDUkr6B8L9

From the hardware community on Reddit: Industry group invalidates 2...

Explore this post and more from the hardware community

1

10:08 PM

Never change, Intel

Big xeon

GoldenX86_64

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/s/vDUkr6B8L9

This means the compiler (in this case, Intel's oneAPI DPC++/C++ Compiler) was not optimized for a particular kind of workload, or even for specific applications, but specifically for two SPEC CPU 2017 benchmarks

10:44 PM

10:44 PM

Remember Bapco or whatever it was?

10:45 PM

The "independent testers" who kept producing heavily pro-Intel benchmarks...then it was revealed Intel were funding them lol.

10:45 PM

i.e. it was an "industry body" and Intel was the main member of the body.

10:45 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAPCo_consortium

BAPCo consortium

BAPCo, Business Applications Performance Corporation, is a non-profit consortium (founded in 1991) with a charter to develop and distribute a set of objective performance benchmarks for personal computers based on popular software applications and operating systems. BAPCo's current membership includes Acer, ARCIntuition, ASUS, Compal, Dell, Dyna...

10:46 PM

BAPco has suffered criticism for bias in its benchmarking products. It was found in 2002 that Intel was the sole contributor to a series of CPU tests, tests which heavily favoured their own CPU's vs competitors, where the tests of the year before performed significantly better on non-Intel parts.[1] Intel was investigated by the FTC, and eventually fined for this action, among other anti-competitive measures.

Isn't userbenchmark another of those?

UB isn't paid by intel

11:08 PM

he's just got issues

Nah, that guy is being paid, we just don't know it yet

I think it's someone who bought an FX-9590 and is still mad about the 220W TDP. (edited)

I remember people put that CPU on motherboards that only supported the FX-8350 kek

@Mango9999 I have a job for you Do you have a Fermi on hand?

Samueru

Nah, that guy is being paid, we just don't know it yet

Nah, he's the worst kind of shill, the unpaid shill

just like me fr

Nvidia shill, apple shill, facebook shill

@exio4 stop being an Apple shill, install Asahi on your expensetop and run yuzu with OpenGL

is m2 max even supported?

12:05 AM

lol

Egdarska

Nvidia shill, apple shill, facebook shill

the holy trinity

Yeah, M1 and M2 has full 4.6 support

12:05 AM

Validated even

12:06 AM

Linux offering better API support than Apple already

i said m2 max

12:06 AM

not m2

12:06 AM

m1 pro/max had some weird quirks back in the day

Should still work

GoldenX86_64

Linux offering better API support than Apple already

not shocked btw

12:12 AM

apple has just stopped caring about OpenGL

12:12 AM

deprecated for like a decade already iirc

exio4

the holy trinity

I forgot valve shill

1:02 AM

The middle of the shill triforce

The only decent of those 4

valve makes generally mediocre hardware lol

1:09 AM

out of the hardware companies to shill for it's weird

1:09 AM

it's just that valve has to compete with Asus

God tier software though

1:11 AM

And good value most of the time

GoldenX86_64

God tier software though

wdym by that? because I wouldn't call steam that

Compare to any other store/launcher

The steam launcher even once had a bug that ran an rm -rf / kek

i think this is all relative

GoldenX86_64

Compare to any other store/launcher

Depends on what you want

1:25 AM

Gog is superior to steam in my opinion because it just launches my games

1:26 AM

I can just disable notifications, or not run it at all

I, for one, still launch all of my games from the command prompt like a gentleman. /s

Also steam on linux disables the screensaver even when no game is running

GOG is good but Steam has lots of features

Most of those "features" are just bloat for me

Samueru

Also steam on linux disables the screensaver even when no game is running

You can blame gnome for that

Controller mapping is cool tho

GoldenX86_64

You can blame gnome for that

Was this something that they forced because of gnome?

Afaik yes

right now I have to launch steam with steam-screensaver-fix which does some ld preload hacks

1:28 AM

And on gamemode when a game is launched is that the screensaver is disabled

Linux gaming be like

I appreciate Valve’s recent emphasis on store events

1:28 AM

Next Fest, etc

GoldenX86_64

@Mango9999 I have a job for you Do you have a Fermi on hand?

maybe 12 or 15 or so give or take

I need you to set up a windows 10 or 11 PC with a Fermi card, regular Windows, you need to install the opencl opengl Vulkan compatibility pack

1:50 AM

Then test if yuzu runs games on Vulkan

1:50 AM

Vulkan Fermi Is kinda here

Interesting

i have a couple systems that would be ready to go for it, just can't do it right this second, but will indeed try to here shortly.

1:53 AM

i have many other systems too with win10 on that would be easy to just toss any fermi card of choice into really too.

1:54 AM

i don't have every single fermi card ever made, but i have one of pretty much every gpu or variant that exists, or a way to represent any tier, whether geforce or quadro

Samueru

The steam launcher even once had a bug that ran an rm -rf / kek

steam and rf rm a disk a couple times and it will still be better than the competition

Well on linux there isn't any so that is technically true, but I wouldn't call steam good software though

valve is not good at this

2:03 AM

they're just not so bad you wanna quit gaming

2:03 AM

(most of the time)

2:04 AM

like, if you look at the 5700xt's display issues, pcie woes, utterly broken encoders

2:04 AM

you'd think that gaming is just doomed and get a bunch of video streaming subscriptions to kill time

exio4

like, if you look at the 5700xt's display issues, pcie woes, utterly broken encoders

You know what is crazy? rdna1 is actually the good card on linux

2:05 AM

rdna2 has some weird ring timeouts and rdna3, well the 7800 XT can't reboot without giving you a permanent black screen

through the hard work and perseverance of distinctly not amd

2:05 AM

amd does not love mesa and will never tuck them in at night

2:06 AM

but the chad lads do it anyway

Samueru

You know what is crazy? rdna1 is actually the good card on linux

"good"

GoldenX86_64

Vulkan Fermi Is kinda here

is the cpu or anything else going to matter? will haswell be fine? and any specific fermi gpu in mind really?

exio4

like, if you look at the 5700xt's display issues, pcie woes, utterly broken encoders

A few days ago someone was on the archlinux forum asking about the state of Intel arc because they were so done with their 6600XT randomly crashing

Haswell is fine Try to use something with at least 1gb or 2

Samueru

A few days ago someone was on the archlinux forum asking about the state of Intel arc because they were so done with their 6600XT randomly crashing

linux bros will do anything except buy working hardware

1

Samueru

A few days ago someone was on the archlinux forum asking about the state of Intel arc because they were so done with their 6600XT randomly crashing

yeah i mean, that's amd

https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/1aj9sr8/intel_arc_gpu_current_state_on_linux/

From the archlinux community on Reddit

Explore this post and more from the archlinux community

Samueru

https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/1aj9sr8/intel_arc_gpu_current_state_on_linux/

since NVIDIA is a bad option on wayland/hyprland

2:08 AM

called it

kek

2:11 AM

Also now the NVK drivers on nvidia are getting very good (edited)

Even at the worst I've heard about nvidia on linux, they at least kinda work

Arc sucks on Linux too

Lowkey I wish their was an application on windows that could mimic hyprland

4:35 AM

I miss linux

4:35 AM

But I also have an nvidia laptop so I can't go back

linux has it so much worse than windows on gpus still...

4:37 AM

amd has god tier rendering but zero recovery, making it a russian roulette

4:37 AM

intel has useless vulkan drivers

4:38 AM

and nvidia still has kms module dependency, and bad wayland support

SadSinglePringle

Lowkey I wish their was an application on windows that could mimic hyprland

It took file explorer what, 15 years to get browser tabs, maybe in the next 10 years there will be tiling wm in windows

Theirs already a program that can mimic it

4:54 AM

Just not one with the animations of hyprland

4:54 AM

Which would be nigh impossible

What's the program name?

https://github.com/LGUG2Z/komorebi

GitHub - LGUG2Z/komorebi: A tiling window manager for Windows

A tiling window manager for Windows

. Contribute to LGUG2Z/komorebi development by creating an account on GitHub.

4:56 AM

Just no where near as smooth or animated or quick like on linux

4:57 AM

Which makes me sad

Does it override the win key hotkeys?

4:57 AM

I now can't use a window PC because I'm pressing win+f like an idiot opening the feedback hud every time lol

still, gotta say, gnome with fractional scaling is quite usable

5:15 AM

why is that not enabled by default? only the rejected appled devs at gnome know

can you do it the mac way

5:36 AM

like I run my 1440p monitor (thx again btw <3) at "1080p" but it's actually 4K downsampled to 1440p, with 2x scaling (edited)

5:37 AM

macOS doesn't technically do fractional scaling AFAIK

gnome in a nutshell

exio4

can you do it the mac way

Windows movement between different scaling displays is seamless at least Which is a huge W against windogs (edited)

that was the only thing i liked about linux back when i tried different distros, the window management is pretty cool when it worked

When it works

5:49 AM

When it doesn't, you hate it

yeah, windows dwm is bland but at least it "usually" works

I'm using Linux because it's basically mandatory for my laptop until an LTSC W11 shows up, but Fedora has treated me well so far

i used to have the powertoys window resizing thing but i don't really need it on the laptop

5:51 AM

since i usually just use one window on the left and the rest on top

5:51 AM

but that was cool

Best toys

5:52 AM

The usable search bar is the best one

5:52 AM

Wish it could replace the joke the start menu has

i personally dont like overly complex window management, but macOS is a bit dumb at times due to Apple vibes

At least it's reliable

that's why i dont like when it gets complex

i used to have that window one and the power rename

5:55 AM

the keyboard manager is also cool but i prefer to just use autohotkey since i don't need it all the time

idk i personally would rather have virtual windows over any of this

5:56 AM

im on a 14" display, 27" is bigger but it isn't pixel dense enough to have multiple apps (at 1440p)

Normal sized glasses when

GoldenX86_64

Normal sized glasses when

what kind

VR/AR or just AR but decent

https://us.shop.xreal.com/products/xreal-air-2-pro this is the closest rn to eye headphones but it's cumbersome and what not

XREAL Air 2 Pro

Air2 Pro. The ultimate wearable display experience. Ships in 5 work days. Explore >> Connectivity: USB-C DisplayPort Items Included: Glasses Unit Prescription Lens Frame (Details available on XREAL's official website or through our partner, JUN GINZA) Detachable USB Type-C Cable Light Shield Three types of Nose P

5:57 AM

exio4

idk i personally would rather have virtual windows over any of this

do you miss windows flip 3d?

Small enough, but must be wired

5:57 AM

Vista my beloved

GoldenX86_64

Small enough, but must be wired

yes, it is wired

Egdarska

do you miss windows flip 3d?

what is that

lol

5:58 AM

another microsoft idea for the future of computing

5:58 AM

it died in vista

i switched to linux in 2007-2008 from windows xp

5:58 AM

and used linux until i switched to macOS

5:58 AM

only gave windows a go with w10 and it was meh but w11 was an improvement and it's getting better

5:59 AM

w13 is gonna be the year microsoft has a consistent ux

oh that one

You skipped w8

3d alt tab that required a beefy gpu just to show your open apps

You pussy, suffer 8

GoldenX86_64

You skipped w8

vista, 7, 8 and 8.1

8.1 was fine, fight me

i wanted windows 8's metro ui though

8.1 was fine

Egdarska

3d alt tab that required a beefy gpu just to show your open apps

isn't it still a thing?

i only moved on from 8.1 in 2021 i think

Vista and 7 were ez Vanilla 8 was painful

exio4

isn't it still a thing?

no, it's just a 2d image now

just that "rendering a few triangles at 60 fps with cute animations" is no longer like, beefy

8.1 was fine 10 was unstable 8.1 11 is good but has too much telemetry

flip 3d was techinically also "2d" but it displayed in 3d and was coded by actual monkeys

6:01 AM

and could only show like 6 windows lol

6:01 AM

widgets were also one of those "it works for phones but dumb on desktop" ideas

6:01 AM

i literally never see my wallpaper

talking about telemetry

6:01 AM

https://twitter.com/luftkopptim/status/1757504736134062549

Tim (@LuftkoppTim) on X

tech bubble: "Apple has bad AI" Base for this take:

Siri Ignoring:
image object recognition
Music Karaoke
Live Photos video upscaling
Adaptive Transparency
best Smartwatch sleep-tracking
visual lookup
PDF auto-fill detection
much more

6:02 AM

i love how every twitter thread that is weirdly popular has people with the worst takes you've ever heard boosted lol

6:03 AM

i'm with the russian spy, we shouldn't let companies call current models AI

machine learning is a good term

6:06 AM

but the key is that they "mean the same, realistically"

6:08 AM

people are complaining about terminology when apple is vibing hard beyond the competition in machine learning shit

6:08 AM

there are "rumors" that "Apple is putting AI cores on M4"

i propose the term "spicy if else trees"

Apple has shipped NPUs for half a decade

Egdarska

i propose the term "spicy if else trees"

statistical models aren't if/else trees, but that's what siri is more like right now (edited)

you right, they're more like mandalas

Egdarska

you right, they're more like mandalas

not really, the statistical models are just fancy interpolation

6:10 AM

or extrapolation at times

6:10 AM

conceptually speaking they just massage numbers a lot on one side, and numbers at the other side come out (edited)

6:10 AM

which you then convert into an output

6:11 AM

i wanna record ~spatial video~ with this smh

just tape 2 phones together

the key is that those are nearly-perfect true POV

tape them to your face

too heavy bro

it's probably going to be closer too because the cameras on the glasses don't correspond to the center of the eyes anyway

Egdarska

it's probably going to be closer too because the cameras on the glasses don't correspond to the center of the eyes anyway

usually what you see on mixed reality reprojections is massaged a lot with image processing in real-time

6:15 AM

to make it match what your eyes would see

i wonder if you'd be able to make videos that make people puke on purpose by messing with the camera origin data

6:16 AM

subtly but enough to make them dizzy over time

eh

Egdarska

subtly but enough to make them dizzy over time

this is basically where vr legs come in

but then it would be worse (edited)

6:17 AM

because that relies on the data from the camera location being accurate (edited)

vr immersive videos tend to be shit

6:18 AM

with the wrong IPD

6:19 AM

i think you really overestimate the quality of a lot of XR content lol

6:19 AM

games are like, where it is good

6:19 AM

but movies and that are a struggle

but it's usually bad equally for both eyes

6:19 AM

i'm talking about messing with the camera origin for each eye separately

Egdarska

but it's usually bad equally for both eyes

... not guaranteed, actually

how bad are the headsets that the cameras are just flopping around?

Egdarska

how bad are the headsets that the cameras are just flopping around?

I don't mean the camera passthrough

6:20 AM

I mean immersive 360/180 degree video

6:20 AM

you can make shitty 180 degree videos on youtube

exio4

games are like, where it is good

i want vr animal crossing

and link me

Egdarska

i want vr animal crossing

uhh

6:22 AM

there are a lot of sandbox games which "copy" the vibe

i haven't seen a single animal crossing ripoff that is even similar

im tired as fuck

they usually either copy the aesthetics, the animals, or the "gameplay", but not all three

oh btw @Egdarska i said i was tired as fuck every morning, or night

6:23 AM

and he said he had the same issue, and it was sleep apneq

6:24 AM

checked apple watch

6:24 AM

it thinks i have <10 breaths per minute at times

does your guys' healthcare cover sleep apnea masks?

i think im gonna die

Egdarska

does your guys' healthcare cover sleep apnea masks?

i'm not sure it will do now

exio4

it thinks i have <10 breaths per minute at times

maybe it's just deep breaths

i'm sure it would have a year ago

6:24 AM

but that's communism

6:25 AM

rn i can't really afford a doctor visit anyway

based ancap bro gonna fix the country

6:26 AM

i was surprised to see i'm slightly healthier than in my last physical, and my doctor even more so

6:27 AM

but i also found out i can't do pull ups anymore, so that's a real goal i have to work to

6:27 AM

i can do barely half now

what are pull ups

you grab a bar an pull yourself up

oh these

6:28 AM

i can't do any rn

6:28 AM

i could when i was 20 kilos lighter tho

full means your clavicle reaches the bar

6:28 AM

i can barely put my head to the bar lol

6:28 AM

but i'm also 260lbs

6:29 AM

though when i could i was heavier

6:29 AM

but also stronger so

‍♂️ i really let myself go

stareted using a logi mech keyboard - for the pricepoint i am v v v happy AShappy

which one you got? @aphirst

exio4

which one you got? @aphirst

K855 - paid i think about 55 quid for it as well as maybe 20 quid for a bolt-compatible mouse

tkl?

11:12 AM

sick

strongly considering buying a 2nd one for work

i'm using my laptop's keyboard rn, but i've got my g915 tkl for the desktop/headset next to me, i wish logitech made a usb-c version....

i have a whole bunch of older logi Unifying keebs and mice that i might sell on

11:12 AM

what does tkl mean

no numpad but still normal

ah right

its not the hyper compact stuff

Ten Key Layout ?

11:13 AM

just guessing

ten-key-less iirc

ahhhh

11:13 AM

numpads are interesting but ultimately not necessary

11:13 AM

unless you regularly do data entry

the key (sorry) is that you've still got the normal layout, but it isn't starting to collapse functionality into a function+arrow key for page up/down, etc

i have a usb 10key at work specifically for when inputting student grades into a spreadsheet

i dont use a numpad, i've always hated numpads

but otherwise it just wastes deskspace

i only had numpads as a kid cuz that's what the cheap keyboards have/had (edited)

all my keebs are japanese layout ofc, i wonder whether i can flog them to westerners online

uhhh

11:14 AM

my keyboards are a mess lol

maybe one person would be interested in just buying them off me in bulk

my laptops are in german, my logitech is english iso? i think? the small enter key, and the backup one i have around is latin american spanish lol

11:15 AM

they're all in english through software anyways lol

i absolutely fscking despise en-US layout

i dont use the german or spanish layouts

i have a german logi K780 somewhere

en-US?

but since i do stuff in japanese occasionally i basically need japanese layout

exio4

en-US?

yeah because en-GB is different

this is the g915 tkl

11:17 AM

i think thats the layout i use on all my keyboards? kinda?

11:18 AM

idk i got used to the american layout for software dev as a kid

11:18 AM

the clis of the world are basically coded with the assumption you've got an american layout as well

this is Japanese layout and you can see it has the UK/EU enter key, weird punctuation, and also weird space/shift/backspace geometry

uhhh

exio4

uhhh

i grew up with the UK layout, got used to german layout in germany, then started using Japanese layout since living in japan; i always hated the US layout with the symbol placement and the flat enter key

i dunno

aphirst

i grew up with the UK layout, got used to german layout in germany, then started using Japanese layout since living in japan; i always hated the US layout with the symbol placement and the flat enter key

you sure you mean uk and not ansi vs iso

11:31 AM

this @aphirst

not all boards with the 7-shaped enter key are the same geometry though

11:32 AM

pay close attention to the backspace key on the japanese board

ohh

GoldenX86_64

Haswell is fine Try to use something with at least 1gb or 2

sorry i didn't finish up last night, was kinda tired and had a few hurdles that were too annoying to deal with at the time.

1:14 PM

firstly, i need to actually know where to get this vulkan compatibility pack in a way that is NOT that windows store.

1:14 PM

but, that aside, fermi cards no longer work whatsoever even with opengl now it seems with newest versions, even with their newest driver, and even though they clearly have the opengl support for it, the emulator will still just say it does not and not even let you try to launch games.

1:15 PM

vulkan is no longer even an option too by defaul, with it being greyed out entirely and won't let you even try, with an error beforehand even saying it failed to initialize.

1:15 PM

that compat back may solve that though, who knows.

1:15 PM

otherwise as of now, way way older versions are the best to use for such hardware, and the only possible option for most.

i see some issues here, possibly able to address it.

1:25 PM

it thinks it's "opengl4.5" for some reason.

1:25 PM

didn't know there was a 4.5...

1:25 PM

the current specific card is a quadro 2000

1:25 PM

newest possible driver

1:26 PM

going to try yet another gpu, and go back to a geforce this time

ok, got some results now

2:05 PM

just only with opengl, but is a start

2:05 PM

got a 550ti to totally take and accept it as opengl4.6

2:06 PM

so it's either a 400 series problem vs 500 series specifically, or a low end vs high end thing specifically. it's not a geforce vs quadro thing.

2:06 PM

but yeah, not all of fermi is supported at all anymore.

It's only in the play store, unboomer yourself and run a regular Windows build

GoldenX86_64

It's only in the play store, unboomer yourself and run a regular Windows build

i do, i don't log in on most of them

6:02 PM

does it just download a thing i can then copy to one of the other systems and install there

6:02 PM

or do you HAVE to sign in on every system you want it on

You can download it without an account, just close the popup asking to login (edited)

otherwise, if you are saying that many of you actually sign your account into every win10 system you use, shit, don't do that...

6:03 PM

as for legit windows, i don't have a single non legit win10 system, i just have too too many keys to do that shit

6:05 PM

i think i narrowed down the seperate issue above there too, getting fermi to work at all that is.

6:05 PM

and i think it mostly comes down to a fermi 1.0 vs fermi 2.0 issue.

6:06 PM

i just can't get any of my fermi 1.0 based cards to work anymore, and all just get detected as opengl 4.5 by the emulator, but still clearly are 4.6. but the fermi 2.0 cards, most of them (but still not all) tend to take right off the bat.

I bought an extra 64gb of ram coming tomorrow for my ML training, do y'all think I'll finally be able to play totk at 120p /s

if you weren't before, no, not by just adding ram

thankfully I'm able to run the game at 1440p at decent framerates, I just think its absurd that in just under 10 years I go from having 4gb of ram to now 80

it will still run fine then and the same as it did before. if your ram before was super slow and horrendous, and you are going to super fast and awesome ram, then you would maybe see a tiny bump in actual visible performance, but even then wouldn't be much.

6:10 PM

still nice to have though for other things.

oh yeah, the totk thing was a joke, but I will benefit with the new ram for a bunch of other things

for anyone curious about the way above there, here is the gtx 550 ti results with current version of yuzu and 8 player smash, using standard opengl. already full playability here so far.

GoldenX86_64

You can download it without an account, just close the popup asking to login (edited)

is this the exact specific thing right here? https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9NQPSL29BFFF?hl=en-US&gl=US

OpenCL™, OpenGL®, and Vulkan® Compatibility Pack - Official app in ...

This compatibility pack allows more of your favorite OpenCL™, OpenGL®, and Vulkan® apps to run on a Windows 10 or Windows 11 PC that doesn't have these hardware drivers installed by default. If a DirectX 12 driver is installed, supported apps will run with hardware acceleration for better performance. This package supports apps that use OpenCL v...

6:19 PM

if so, i have bad news.

6:19 PM

if not, just let me know, heh.

6:20 PM

it does indeed install without logging in, and didn't even ask me, which is cool. installed fine and confirmed on the system itself.

6:20 PM

yuzu however, even when selecting vulkan and attempting, gives the same error as before saying it failed to load the video core or there is an outdated driver.

6:20 PM

fermi drivers can only go so far, and i do have the newest possible one.

6:21 PM

yuzu version 1716.

Mango9999

is this the exact specific thing right here? https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9NQPSL29BFFF?hl=en-US&gl=US

Yeah it's that One sec you need a custom build

k

We block dozen for now on purpose

6:28 PM

@Mango9999

6:28 PM

Fuck

6:28 PM

My isp is dead

6:28 PM

@PacoA can you pass mango the build I made?

no rushes at all, hehe.

6:31 PM

i'm just sitting getting going for the rest of my day for now.

6:32 PM

having some chips and watching a few videos while i smoke and stuff too.

Sure, mango send me a dm

6:34 PM

I'll send it there

Thanks

6:35 PM

Tourism saturated my isp here, it barely works

6:42 PM

these are the options i still have after.

6:42 PM

i don't see any dx12 option, and vulkan itself still doesn't work.

6:42 PM

@PacoA@GoldenX86_64

Use Vulkan

again, i did, it doesn't work still

Then select the second Fermi option

6:43 PM

Show me your available Vulkan devices in yuzu

after i pick vulkan, there is no other option to pick, the second still remains grey

6:43 PM

one sec

Ah gotcha

6:43 PM

To old d3d12 for dozen

6:43 PM

Thanks mango

6:44 PM

hard to tell with that shitty camera, but yeah, has no option to pick at all, and is grey and won't let me drop it down even.

6:44 PM

this is normal and expected under normal circumstances.

6:44 PM

but yeah, nothing new is being forced or that i can see.

6:47 PM

there's the final error, which we all already know, but just for reference.

6:48 PM

and further confirmation anyway that the file indeed is replaced/in use.

6:48 PM

which specific version of yuzu did any of you use to do it before? and what specific fermi cards has a person actually tried before, and confirmed results?

6:49 PM

how did they originally install the emulator, and any other minor things?

6:50 PM

i'm using official build, newest one at the time as of this morning unless there is even newer right now. using windows 10 fully up to date as of actual today. don't run any monitoring or other softwares during such specific tests at all.

6:50 PM

i5 4440, gtx 550 ti, 8gb ddr3, 250gb hdd.

6:51 PM

games tried: virtua racing, mario 3d world, smash bros, breath of the wild.

6:53 PM

tried recopying the file again anyway, tried picking opengl just to see if maybe there was a different option in it's second thing, tried picking null just to see if maybe it would show up there, and still nothing.

6:55 PM

that vulkan compatibility pack totally did download and install from the ms store, and when i look in it's library it is indeed totally there and on my system. is there some further thing i need to do with this maybe? or that i'm maybe overlooking?

6:55 PM

does it have to be further installed from there or something? nothing happens if you click "open" by it, because it's already installed and has no thing to open.

6:55 PM

kinda like on steam there

. different update to the seperate issue up there relating to opengl and fermi. using gpuz i can see that even it is detecting some of the more obscure and older fermi cards as opengl4.5, but once i put something like a 550ti or other newer/greater one in, shows the expected 4.6.

7:03 PM

so yeah, even though all of fermi on paper does officially support 4.6, there is some thing making the older fermi1.0 cards no longer accepted as such, or something.

7:04 PM

with a 550ti though, even up to games like smash, and even under opengl, you get full playability, pretty cool.

Mango9999

which specific version of yuzu did any of you use to do it before? and what specific fermi cards has a person actually tried before, and confirmed results?

That same one, and got no confirmation, I wanted to know if Fermi could run it But it seems it lacks required d3d12 features

yes, i agree and believe it also comes down to this

7:10 PM

if i "could" have a d12 driver to install or that would make the card accepted as such, even if hacked/rigged, i think it then could maybe force or be attempted.

7:10 PM

otherwise right now it just wants that real bad.

Maybe Kepler works

shit, thanks for telling me that little quirk of downloading shit from the store without logging in there, haha

7:43 PM

can't believe i never heard of it before or considered it

Does the Mangosoft Store require login?

GoldenX86_64

Maybe Kepler works

vulkan running on a quadro k2000, essentially a gtx650/gt740 ish kepler card. performance is better than opengl, and by a clearly visible amount, which is good. performance starts out as it's going to be mostly from the start, without the obvious shader hell of before.

Can you try dozen on it too? See if it's better

otherwise yeah, with a kepler card, everything worked right away first shot as expected and how instructed, so fermi is the problem with the other there, no biggie though

Dozen provides a newer Vulkan than the Nvidia driver

GoldenX86_64

Can you try dozen on it too? See if it's better

what does that mean

But no idea how good it is

7:50 PM

Installing the compatibility pack from the windows store

oh it has that right now

7:50 PM

it's the same system from before, just different gpu

7:50 PM

so yeah, i have the pack, and am using the custom build

Then selecting "Microsoft Direct3D 12 (Quadro K2000)" as the device

correct, that's what i did

Nice!

and yeah, results right now are very very great, far exceeding my expectations

So Kepler works, is it better than the native Vulkan driver?

7:51 PM

Newer games will crash, keep that in mind

hehe, the native one crashes on me more times than not, to the point where i avoid it at all costs unless i am at maxwell or greater. so i would say that's a resounding yes, haha

NICE

7:52 PM

Thanks

7:52 PM

The Microsoft dozen dev is in vacation, but once he's back I'll try to provide what's missing to get it working on all games

otherwise for performance sake, the default vulkan driver, on 600 series cards, largely has the same performance as opengl. i know that sounds weird, but others have indeed experienced it too. just doesn't work that well natively on the cards i guess.

@Blinkhawk Kepler works with dozen, and beats the native Vulkan driver

Lol

shit, that 8 player smash round is still just plowing holding 60fps all times now

7:53 PM

will not even stutter anymore

Guess next test is GCN

my video way way above was it's opengl performance earlier today itself with same emulator version for comparison, this is nearly double it

What else has d3d12? Old GCN and broadwell? (edited)

gcn will likely be the cutoff point for sure

7:55 PM

i can still get gcn1.0 cards to do almost all current things even

7:55 PM

their highest end firepros are still quite powerful too, and have a ton of vram

Forgot to test if dozen runs arceus, that's where old GCN stops working for yuzu on Vulkan

7:56 PM

If dozen makes arceus work for it, epic win

Dozen is promising

Guess gen9 intel is worth it too, it can't run scarlet

GoldenX86_64

What else has d3d12? Old GCN and broadwell? (edited)

apple

Real d3d12

if kepler's dx12 support counts, so does apple's

8:10 PM

fr

8:10 PM

but, unironically, is there a way to install dozen as a standalone thing?

Afaik no

8:11 PM

Wonder if someone got it ported to apple, else you will have to use it over a windows VM

uhh

8:11 PM

no, I mean, I'd run windows yuzu

8:12 PM

GPTK (the DX12 layer) is windows-emulation-exclusive afaik

8:12 PM

it'd be doing ARM => x86 => ARM lol

8:14 PM

is there really no .exe / .msi / .something to install dozen?

8:15 PM

>Microsoft dozen Vulkan driver is available since 22.1.0 in MSVC package and since 22.2.0 in MinGW package as well. This driver relies on D3D12 API to function and it can use GPU acceleration on supported systems. File names: dzn_icd.x86_64.json, dzn_icd.x86.json, vulkan_dzn.dll. For information on how to deploy see usage notes.

8:17 PM

alright, so vulkan drivers are just a .dll

That should work, but I couldn't get it to load

8:18 PM

Most likely I missed something

https://github.com/KhronosGroup/Vulkan-Loader/blob/main/docs/LoaderDriverInterface.md#driver-discovery did you use VK_DRIVER_FILES

Vulkan-Loader/docs/LoaderDriverInterface.md at main · KhronosGroup/...

Vulkan Loader. Contribute to KhronosGroup/Vulkan-Loader development by creating an account on GitHub.

Guess it needs a system wide installation then

GoldenX86_64

What else has d3d12? Old GCN and broadwell? (edited)

gcn 1.0. firepro w4100. same gpu as a radeon hd7770 ghz edition, just slightly cut.

yuzu doesn't boot

and similarly to the other, results are sometimes magnitudes greater

8:23 PM

game still holding 60 right now

8:23 PM

things like the firepro w7000, s7000, radeon sky 500, and etc should all be able to tank botw now

Compare to native Vulkan

it only boots the simplest of games on the card

8:24 PM

like virtua racing as an example of the best

8:24 PM

the ones it does run though do run full speed, but yeah, it's hell getting any to run at all before

8:24 PM

would always just deal with opengl with them

So it's already a compatibility boost

even opengl has a hard time booting a large number of games on the card as it is

8:25 PM

but still, the ones that do, generally perform ok

I'll mention this in the next report, it's a huge help for old hardware users

indeed

8:26 PM

i know a lot of emulators are just starting to ditch older support and stuff, and i totally do get it, and don't fault them totally for it

8:26 PM

but the few who CAN remain supporting all of us until the very end, will not be forgotten, and people love it

8:26 PM

keeping that dev philosophy is a great thing

8:27 PM

and yeah, won't always work out, but the fact it's at least considered is what matters, because yeah, some get kinda pretentious about it even

8:29 PM

. so would intel hd 4000 range, things like intel hd4400 and hd4600, be what you were referring to up there with respect to intel curiosity? (edited)

lets hope dozen doesnt need avx lol

it already works on the cpus themselves with the graphics

8:33 PM

been using some of them for the tests so far with dedicated cards

8:33 PM

just haven't tried their integrated in a long time

8:33 PM

but yeah, their i3 chips generally will have the intel hd4400 and i5 and i7 chips the hd4600 (edited)

. intel hd4600 does not work

8:49 PM

kinda expected though, heh, but wanted to try...

ok, I've got yuzu-cmd doing something, is there a way to dump all the valid graphics backends?

9:24 PM

oh wait

exio4

ok, I've got yuzu-cmd doing something, is there a way to dump all the valid graphics backends?

Are you trying to get yuzu running on asashi?

no, macOS

9:32 PM

i'm trying to procrastinate alright?

Mmm

9:32 PM

Isnt opengl like super ancient on macos?

9:33 PM

Asashi will give you better opengl results

I'm trying to use directx12

Oh is that the compatibility layer they recently mentioned?

yeah, dozen => gptk => metal (edited)

9:35 PM

i have low expectations, but uh

9:35 PM

gptk can run cyberpunk?

But yuzu doesnt use directx?

dozen is a Vulkan => DX12 translation layer

9:36 PM

GPTK is a DX12 => Metal translation layer

Oh I see

9:36 PM

Worth the shot I guess

dunno lol

9:37 PM

the ui doesn't boot for some reason

rip too many gotchas

exio4

rip too many gotchas

Time to spin asashi

Samueru

Time to spin asashi

effort

https://youtu.be/BditFs3VR9c?si=5ilr5cbuW1z74jDu For the RTX gang, worth a try on yuzu

Digital Foundry

RTX Video HDR Modded For Games... And The Results Are Excellent

2:50 AM

Gran turismo 6 with HDR sounds perfect

This is like my sister telling me to try her cooking.

he has video proof it works pretty well

3:44 AM

mentions some of the issues it's got at the moment

3:44 AM

and the inherent downside (performance overhead)

3:45 AM

NVIDIA's game HDR feature isn't even openly supported yet lol

3:45 AM

it was found in the drivers

3:45 AM

the debanding sounds like an awesome use of AI tbh

3:46 AM

take 8-bit video and add intermediate gradients with machine learning

Fixes so many skyboxes

I'd actually like a debanding filter without the brightness

3:47 AM

it'd likely be possible to run on the NPU in AS

3:47 AM

would work great for playing SDR games over the network on the laptop

Mmm

4:45 AM

More reasons I will never be able to switch back to amd

i want to see a comparison of auto hdr, nvidia hdr, and the native hdr in re2 remake

4:47 AM

i wouldn't be surprised if nvidia hdr is better than the native implementation

exio4

and the inherent downside (performance overhead)

i thought performance would be worse tbh

5:06 AM

I have two RTX 4060 Ti GPUs in my PC. One of them is in an X1 to X16 PCIE adaptor plus a ROG Strix PCIE Riser cable. The motherboard is PCIE Gen 3.0 only. It was supposed to be both GPUs with 16GB VRAM, but the eBay seller I bought it from labeled the 8GB version as 16GB, so I nees to return it, but for now I'm using 16GB + 8GB. AI LLM doesn't seem to be held back much by the Gen 3 X1 bandwidth because the LLM performance was about the same as with only the 16GB GPU if I allocate 8GB to each GPU. The performance isn't much better when utilizing more of the total 24GB VRAM, so the extra 8GB VRAM probably doesn't help much. It's also annoying to get the LLM to properly utilize the full capabilities of multiple GPUs when they have mismatched VRAM capacities. (edited)

"The more you buy, the more you save"

GoldenX86_64

"The more you buy, the more you save"

amd can't say the same

7:08 AM

rdna2 => rdna3 was a downgrade in VR performance lol

And ada is a downgrade in every gpu tier

not really, there's still improvements

exio4

not really, there's still improvements

(other than the 4060, which is a weird card) (edited)

exio4

(other than the 4060, which is a weird card) (edited)

4060 vs 3060 is still like a 50% improvement with modern rendering lol

Amd, does a phenom 2 to fx with rdna3 Nvidia, "haha, look at me murder the entire entry and mid range market"

but 4060 Ti vs 3060 Ti is a jump at low resolutions, RT & efficiency - uses like 35% less power in the "worst case", can use less than half, it is a big improvement, if you use DLSS at 1440p

alan wake 2 numbers aren't even close for those 2

Egdarska

4060 vs 3060 is still like a 50% improvement with modern rendering lol

4060 is muuuch faster

7:11 AM

but it loses 4GB of VRAM

7:11 AM

so it's weird

7:11 AM

i unironically love the 4060's performance numbers

And still expensive

for the price it's insanely good

be thankful it isn't 6

lmao

5060, 96 bit wide, 4x slot, 6gb But path tracing yo

4060 Ti is still an improvement over the 3060 Ti tho

In 3 games

no

7:12 AM

1080p gaming

Oh sorry, 5

which is what the card can do, and 1440p + DLSS Quality is 1080p performance

Still an excuse

7:12 AM

Generational rot

yeah bro, people buy 4060 for 4k gaming

it is, NVIDIA is pulling another "we got you mofo"

7:13 AM

4060 Ti was $399 for 8G

7:13 AM

tho

exio4

it is, NVIDIA is pulling another "we got you mofo"

I consider Ada better than Ampere anyway

And now even 1080p games use over 8gb

Ampere was the e-waste generation

That card will age like shit

it's a 60 series card, those always aged like shit

it's going to be funny if capcom forces nintendo to force nvidia to put a decent amount of vram in an nvidia product

Bless capcom in this case

i find something funny tho

7:14 AM

Ampere is considered a good generation

capcom is the only reason the switch doesn't have 3GB of ram

exio4

it's a 60 series card, those always aged like shit

1060 tho

but power consumption went through the roof lol

7:14 AM

and VRAM was nearly stagnant

7:14 AM

3080 10G is 100x more cringe than a 4060 with 8G

7:15 AM

3080 10G was over twice the price of the base 4060, 2+ years ago, people paid >$1200 for it (edited)

Ampere pulled another 4090, but on even higher end skus

Ampere was like

7:15 AM

bad

The fools that paid mining prices for cards, lol

7:16 AM

Still happy I paid 300 bucks for the 3060ti in goddamn Argentina

i'm still happy with the 3060, even with the gimped vram

high power consumption, stagnation in VRAM across the high-end, flagship with suicidal VRAM, RT became viable in some way, but it also didn't have AV1 encoding so you can't even say it was a good leap in the media engine

i almost bought a turing card in 2021 lol

1

no new core features

7:17 AM

i love my 2060 super and think it "aged gracefully" but turing is just old

7:17 AM

even 3 years ago it was old

Turing also aged like crap There's a trend with nvidia now

Turing aged fine

7:17 AM

lol

7:17 AM

it still handles modern games better than RDNA2 technically

Low end turing aged well

2080 Ti outperforms the XTX in blender

7:17 AM

so

7:17 AM

exio4

it still handles modern games better than RDNA2 technically

yeah, it's almost unplayable instead of completely unplayable

Blender is not a game

Egdarska

yeah, it's almost unplayable instead of completely unplayable

nah, I mean, you get DLSS lol

7:18 AM

RDNA2 gets FSR2 (which uh is a thing), or XeSS DP4a (which runs like shit on it)

7:18 AM

XeSS DP4a runs better on Turing than RDNA2 too

7:18 AM

lol

Turing cores

like, Turing is a better architecture, just "limited by its node"

Still a shit product stack

speaking of outdated shit, i tried to find a way to transfer files easily from android to windows without using airdroid

We've been getting shit product stacks for almost a decade now

it was a flat perf/$ in old games, but the architecture was a massive leap

there isn't

7:19 AM

the only almost decent one requires a samsung device

Egdarska

speaking of outdated shit, i tried to find a way to transfer files easily from android to windows without using airdroid

Kde connect

and specific intel bluetooth chipset

my 2060 super was meant to be a temporary card

7:19 AM

i wanted a 16gb 70 series card

7:19 AM

i'm still waiting

Sell the mac, get two 4090s kek

GoldenX86_64

Kde connect

is that another linux meme or a real answer?

lol i haven't paid for it yet

Egdarska

is that another linux meme or a real answer?

it is real

7:20 AM

kde connect is legit good

Egdarska

is that another linux meme or a real answer?

Real, works on windows, give it a try

i will

7:20 AM

airdroid doesn't really bother me

kde connect on linux+android is sick

7:20 AM

it's the closest to airdrop i've seen metaphorically speaking

but i was hoping we'd be at the point where i just pair two devices and they can share files

yes

7:21 AM

kde connect adds your computer as a device you can share

which we are, if you own specific devices

from the share section

which means it's shit

7:21 AM

no i meant like without installing a program

oh

7:21 AM

that is only possible on mac + ios

7:21 AM

lol

Too many different corpos in the middle

you can "technically" do it on windows, over bluetooth, and it's fucking stupid

7:22 AM

you have to start a transfer before you can receive files

7:22 AM

and it's slow as fuck

airdrop is funny

7:22 AM

they use like 7 protocols

7:22 AM

based on vibes

and the only one kinda like airdrop needs a samsung or oppo device, and a windows program that only works with specific chipsets

Egdarska

and specific intel bluetooth chipset

Apple does this btw

Microsoft said they are working on nearby share with android support, but expect it to take a decade

their wifi chipsets has custom firmware

exio4

Apple does this btw

yeah, but that's apple, they have proprietary ssds

their nand is actually custom for some forsaken reason

And premium ram without ecc

apple moment

you just expect things to be stupid with apple

i mean, this one isn't stupid per se

7:23 AM

it's just extra work for a small advantage

7:23 AM

a lot of extra work

yeah that's what i said

And a massive fuck you to the customer

7:23 AM

The main reason

this one is actually reasonsable lol

7:24 AM

they do it so your wifi doesn't disconnect when you airdrop

That one is fine

so you have a wifi direct connect, p2p between devixes

Its actually good use of available techs

yeah, for communication it makes sense because you'll only connect to apple devices anyway they can do what they want

7:24 AM

not being able to swap ssds is not justifiable

i am happy qi2 became a thing tho

Egdarska

not being able to swap ssds is not justifiable

swap flash*

7:25 AM

the controller is on the soc

you can't do it either way so that's just semantics

if you say "uh oh it should be out of the flash", i don't want my system to use twice the power on constant I/O lol

Inb4 they do it to just avoid adding pcie lanes

no

7:25 AM

it's because they do the soc on their bleeding edge node

7:25 AM

that's insanity

7:26 AM

it's stupidly expensive

7:26 AM

but it saves 250mW

exio4

if you say "uh oh it should be out of the flash", i don't want my system to use twice the power on constant I/O lol

And then you sell an 11k mac pro with the same limitations

GoldenX86_64

And then you sell an 11k mac pro with the same limitations

mac pro has pcie lanes

7:26 AM

you can just stick ssds on it lol

And no gpu support

its a desktop

does kde connect work better as an app or as a desktop program>?

7:26 AM

or is it the same?

Yes

Egdarska

does kde connect work better as an app or as a desktop program>?

uhh i havent used it on windows, but on kde it adds to the share shit

7:26 AM

so you right click share => kde connect => phone

7:26 AM

and it automatically transfers

I would just use the store one

windows can do that with both regular programs and the store, but the store is usually better "integrated"

7:27 AM

but the store also causes issues because microsoft

And auto updates

GoldenX86_64

And no gpu support

thats technically* not apple's fault* *Apple would have the sign the driver, but the only company with ARM drivers right now is NVIDIA, AMD's ARM drivers don't exist

They do, samsung has them

7:28 AM

Plus mesa is a thing

no, the raspberry pi guy on YT has tried to get AMD gpus to work

GoldenX86_64

They do, samsung has them

didn't samsung get drivers for a specific gpu in their specific architecture?

it's just impossible, they don't have ARM drivers that work like, properly, Samsung's drivers are basically specially baked to work because IGP

to be fair, getting dedicated graphics to work on a god damn SBC is hard work in the first place

AMD moment

you can buy an Ampere ARM workstation, plug a NVIDIA gpu, and it'll work

7:29 AM

(on linux)

7:29 AM

plug an AMD gpu, and you get fucked

7:29 AM

lol

7:29 AM

of course, for compute-first, not really gaming

Still, nvidia could just work on the apple cheese grater

7:29 AM

Its just apple being elon musk stupid with nvidia

nah not that stupid

GoldenX86_64

Still, nvidia could just work on the apple cheese grater

NVIDIA would have to port the driver to ARM macOS [which is a constantly moving target] and then sell these to the 30 people with Mac Pros in the planet

They sell to weirder markets

7:30 AM

Apple lost a chance to turn the grater into something usable

exio4

NVIDIA would have to port the driver to ARM macOS [which is a constantly moving target] and then sell these to the 30 people with Mac Pros in the planet

would apple allow drivers with support for apis they don't want?

i dont like the mac pro

No one does, not even apple

Mac Pro still has a reason to exist though

I guess its the last one

if you need the storage

Egdarska

would apple allow drivers with support for apis they don't want?

I'm not sure

7:31 AM

from what I know, the AMD drivers on macOS were cooperative work between Apple and AMD?

a 4090 limited to moltenvk lol

Same as intel iirc

Egdarska

would apple allow drivers with support for apis they don't want?

they just don't even utilize those APIs at all. im like 80% certain the last Nvidia supported Macs couldn't even properly use CUDA

Moltenvk and cuda

LukeTheVideoGamer

they just don't even utilize those APIs at all. im like 80% certain the last Nvidia supported Macs couldn't even properly use CUDA

i think they can

7:32 AM

it's just very old cuda now

kde connect on microsoft store just says downloading with no file size lol

Still better than opencl for sure

been downloading since i asked

bro, Metal > OpenCL

Microsoft store for ya

OpenCL is trash

calculating download size, almost ready

Metal, CUDA, fucking half-patched-together vulkan compute

kill me pls

all better than opencl lmao

Direct compute beats it

i personally stand by the reasoning that Apple has nothing to lose with fully supporting Vulkan on macOS

they just don't care

They don't, they're just idiots

well, they're not idiots, they're just stubborn.

can't even cncel the download

like, their hardware can't even do OpenGL shit from 10 years ago

7:34 AM

because they never implemented it

Made a phone gpu, then decided to make gaming gpus Watch metal turn into vulkan in 2 years

it is closer to NVN

Except for everything it doesn't support

it depends on the generation, a lot

7:35 AM

older Metal was really cringe

exio4

like, their hardware can't even do OpenGL shit from 10 years ago

coincidentally, they also deprecated OpenGL about 10 years ago

LukeTheVideoGamer

coincidentally, they also deprecated OpenGL about 10 years ago

exactly

7:35 AM

M1 is also quite meh

is there really no way to force microsoft store downloads to be removed?

Reboot

7:35 AM

Or let it chill

Egdarska

is there really no way to force microsoft store downloads to be removed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

Gasoline

The terms gasoline (), petrol (), or simply gas identify and describe the petrochemical product characterized as a transparent, yellowish, and flammable liquid normally used as a fuel for spark-ignited internal combustion engines. When formulated as a fuel for engines, gasoline is chemically composed of organic compounds derived from the fractio...

1

It will eventually install

it has a cancel download button but it doesn't work as usual

Apple's GPUs are quite mid at a lot of things, but they're decent at raw compute

7:36 AM

which is like, all you can use them for in macOS anyway lmao

7:36 AM

but their GPUs really need a glow-up

M4 will be lit

exio4

M1 is also quite meh

on a raw performance standpoint i agree, but on a more fundamental level, i honestly think M1, and Apple Silicon as a whole, is a big step forward for bringing all standard computing towards a brighter, RISCier future (please excuse the pun)

Lol

either way, if anybody shits on Apple GPUs, I'll mention M3 has technically a more advanced RT core than RDNA3 (and likely RDNA4)

LukeTheVideoGamer

on a raw performance standpoint i agree, but on a more fundamental level, i honestly think M1, and Apple Silicon as a whole, is a big step forward for bringing all standard computing towards a brighter, RISCier future (please excuse the pun)

I meant the GPU's feature support

And arc

I love M1 lol

And better drivers

i'm the apple simp here

exio4

I meant the GPU's feature support

honestly, that's another side effect of apple being stubborn as all hell

Metal may be shit as a 3d api, but the drivers are top tier

exio4

either way, if anybody shits on Apple GPUs, I'll mention M3 has technically a more advanced RT core than RDNA3 (and likely RDNA4)

phone gpus do too

Ehh, qualcomm is pretty meh

I haven't been able to find architectural details on Qualcomm's RT acceleration FWIW

7:38 AM

if you can link me to some

7:38 AM

i'd appreciate it

GoldenX86_64

Ehh, qualcomm is pretty meh

in performance, but i think the newest gous actually do have RT cores

Apple has WWDC were they explain this

and we're talking architecture

Egdarska

in performance, but i think the newest gous actually do have RT cores

so does RDNA2 technically

740 is compute RT, a la gtx 1600, and 750 is rdna2 level RT

7:39 AM

No hardware for denoising

they already have Metal (which, granted, is actually pretty good, its downside lies in the fact that NO ONE USES IT), why should they care about 30 year old OpenGL, or the similar-on-paper Vulkan?

rdna2 level RT is not really a big improvement

i think rt in phone games is really a meme at this point tbh

LukeTheVideoGamer

they already have Metal (which, granted, is actually pretty good, its downside lies in the fact that NO ONE USES IT), why should they care about 30 year old OpenGL, or the similar-on-paper Vulkan?

Metal actually launched before Vulkan, by like 1-2 years

7:39 AM

they just couldn't wait for the industry

but i also think native res gaming in phones is dumb so idk

Because khronos is perpetually drunk

specially with the resolutions we have now

exio4

Metal actually launched before Vulkan, by like 1-2 years

which is partly my point, why should they care about Vulkan when they already have (and have had) Metal?

like, they were/(are?) part of khronos

7:40 AM

and they took forever

"Opengl 5", vulkan, was in debate for years

so they said lol fuck it

lol, now that the download isn't fucked it downloaded in 3 seconds

7:40 AM

thanks microsoft

Egdarska

but i also think native res gaming in phones is dumb so idk

apple agrees

7:41 AM

MetalFX Quality is a temporal upscaler running on Apple's NPUs, on a phone

7:41 AM

it's sick

7:41 AM

the quality is kinda like wonky XeSS tho

Egdarska

but i also think native res gaming in phones is dumb so idk

my phone screen is god damn 2300x1080 or some stupid shit like that, i ain't gonna be seeing any of the pixels from normal gaming distance

exio4

MetalFX Quality is a temporal upscaler running on Apple's NPUs, on a phone

funny how it has almost all the downsides of regular old FSR then, huh? :p

exio4

the quality is kinda like wonky XeSS tho

(which is fine, because it is a 6 ish" screen)

LukeTheVideoGamer

funny how it has almost all the downsides of regular old FSR then, huh? :p

that's MetalFX Performance

7:41 AM

the spatial upscaler

LukeTheVideoGamer

my phone screen is god damn 2300x1080 or some stupid shit like that, i ain't gonna be seeing any of the pixels from normal gaming distance

imagine running any non-2d game at that resolution on mobile hardware

exio4

the quality is kinda like wonky XeSS tho

It has two tiers right? One is xess, the other is fsr1

GoldenX86_64

It has two tiers right? One is xess, the other is fsr1

yes

7:42 AM

Quality is Temporal™️ with Machine Learning™️ Performance is FSR1-optimized-for-their-GPUs

exio4

that's MetalFX Performance

sorry, shoulda clarified, of regular old FSR2 (which is temporal... just not that good. or artificially intelligent.)

Wish performance was open source to add it to yuzu

LukeTheVideoGamer

sorry, shoulda clarified, of regular old FSR2 (which is temporal... just not that good. or artificially intelligent.)

not really, MetalFX Quality has a different set of issues

GoldenX86_64

Wish performance was open source to add it to yuzu

it isn't open-source, but it is a system API in macOS

Would help android

what about Qualcomm's

Fsr1 murders android

7:43 AM

Also proprietary

qualcomm made a spatial upscaler for phones

7:43 AM

oh

7:43 AM

yuzu is gpl right

7:43 AM

it's joever if so

Yeah, dick corpos

7:43 AM

Nis can be added, but it's shit

GoldenX86_64

Fsr1 murders android

does anyone on yuzu team have the knowledge to alter the fsr1 filter?

In what way?

there's some stuff that can be changed to make it a lot lighter

7:44 AM

get rid of the anti ringing for one, it doesn't really matter at phone sizes

LukeTheVideoGamer

sorry, shoulda clarified, of regular old FSR2 (which is temporal... just not that good. or artificially intelligent.)

FSR2 & MetalFX Quality are a bit different on how they behave, but MetalFX's not as good as DLSS/XeSS XMX by any means - it is much more lightweight though

I guess byte or breadfish can

DLSS is insanely demanding

and it won't be an extreme sharpening anyway

DLSS is actually carried so hard by Tensor cores lol

exio4

DLSS is actually carried so hard by Tensor cores lol

hm i wonder why /s

exio4

DLSS is insanely demanding

Wanna see it work on ayymd with the cuda compat layer to see my 6600 suffer

if you run it at 1080p + DLSS Performance, you go from 40 fps native to 20 fps (on a T400) in some games

7:45 AM

T400 is a pro card that can run DLSS in shader units

Why? No one knows

DLSS is just cuda, if you run it on an older gpu it can just run

exio4

if you run it at 1080p + DLSS Performance, you go from 40 fps native to 20 fps (on a T400) in some games

nvidia marketing, dlss can run on my r7 200 ez

Egdarska

nvidia marketing, dlss can run on my r7 200 ez

real tbh

7:46 AM

it can run

7:46 AM

nobody said real-time in the convo tho

T400 is a gtx1600 card though, its still turing cuda

yeah it is good FP16

7:46 AM

Pascal would actually be even worse

GoldenX86_64

T400 is a gtx1600 card though, its still turing cuda

that's still like 6x better than modern amd compute

1

and Maxwell would just die

Egdarska

that's still like 6x better than modern amd compute

Unless it's vega

imo, even if it's technically worse than DLSS, i am of the belief that FSR2 is just as good if you can't use DLSS (don't have a card that can do it, or it's not supported in a game while FSR2 is) FSR1 and NIS can go to hell for all i care.

GoldenX86_64

Unless it's vega

then it's 12x

Weird amd decisions

LukeTheVideoGamer

imo, even if it's technically worse than DLSS, i am of the belief that FSR2 is just as good if you can't use DLSS (don't have a card that can do it, or it's not supported in a game while FSR2 is) FSR1 and NIS can go to hell for all i care.

I prefer XeSS

7:47 AM

on the d*ck, XeSS DP4a is godtier

7:47 AM

it runs worse, yes

i remember the Reddit posts about why isn't nvidia making dlss open, it would revitalize my 580

but you can do XeSS performance, and it's... blurry? it isn't a shimmery mess

which struggles with fsr3

if you stop the camera for a tenth of a second it will look near native

2012 AMD: "Let's focus on compute" 2019 AMD: "Compute doesn't matter" NVIDIA: Free real state

GoldenX86_64

2012 AMD: "Let's focus on compute" 2019 AMD: "Compute doesn't matter" NVIDIA: Free real state

yeah, AMD failed to read the room SO HARD

lol, amd never focused on compute, they tried for a year and gave up

GoldenX86_64

2012 AMD: "Let's focus on compute" 2019 AMD: "Compute doesn't matter" NVIDIA: Free real state

let's focus on compute, they said, 5 years after Nvidia decided to try and focus on compute

Egdarska

lol, amd never focused on compute, they tried for a year and gave up

they tried on hardware

7:48 AM

not software

Remember the cpu opencl driver

i don't

i remember people getting mad at the blender devs for their amd cards being shit

They promoted opencl so hard

man, did you see ZLUDA being faster than AMD's own HIP-RT stack?

but it cost me the same as an nvidia card bro, you're just not utilizing it fully

honestly, i think compute is extremely important... but not for me!!!

exio4

man, did you see ZLUDA being faster than AMD's own HIP-RT stack?

zelda...

ZLUDA, AKA running CUDA core, optimized for NVIDIA - compiled to AMD bytecode

7:50 AM

runs faster than AMD optimized code

7:50 AM

it's so fucking funny

Intel provided a driver thst only worked on their cpus and gpus So amd responded with one that worked on any cpu, and radeon (edited)

this was around 2013, when cycles was still in very early no even alpha state

LukeTheVideoGamer

honestly, i think compute is extremely important... but not for me!!!

modern games are heavily compute intensive

GoldenX86_64

Intel provided a driver thst only worked on their cpus and gpus So amd responded with one that worked on any cpu, and radeon (edited)

have they always been like this

Yes

and my integrated nvidia gpu was beating full desktop amd gpus

the "normal standard raster" bits of GPUs are like, vibing

and mine was shit even by integrated standards

Remember when we had integrated nvidia gpus

yeah

exio4

the "normal standard raster" bits of GPUs are like, vibing

it's extremely hard to make them meaningfully faster in a way that is cost effective

Glorious days

good old 6150 se, i loved you even though you were shit

7:51 AM

it let me play modern warfare on launch at 30ish fps 640x480

exio4

the "normal standard raster" bits of GPUs are like, vibing

Unless you're intel, then you sell 2007 raster perf to msi to put on a handheld

7:51 AM

Poor thing is a flop before release

GoldenX86_64

Unless you're intel, then you sell 2007 raster perf to msi to put on a handheld

meteor lake on the the handheld is just power starved

THE CLAWWWWWWW

lol, i forgot they're making intel handhelds

And raster starved And driver starved

why tho

it's not raster starved

7:52 AM

it's like the ROG Ally at 10W, just that the power curve is higher

ok no joke, i already don't like the good non-Valve PC handheld (ROG Ally), why would i ever like the bad one?

i wouldn't call the ally good

steamdeck gaps the rog ally and the rog ally is "on paper" faster

Egdarska

i wouldn't call the ally good

it is good for PC OEM standards

it's one of the least bad tho

the only flaws it has are battery life, thermals are inconsistent, burns SD cards & has a proprietary expansion port

7:53 AM

that's basically perfect in the windows market

They went from 48/24 in alder xe to 64/32 in meteor lake xe, tmu/rop

i thought they fixed the burning card slot

Thats still massively raster starved

Egdarska

i thought they fixed the burning card slot

it's a hardware flaw but now it is mitigated by running the fans harder and throttling faster

Plus those tmu and rops have a trash ipc compared to amd

the biggest issue Arc has is utilization

7:54 AM

it's not just the driver, it's the architecture

7:55 AM

it is built "like an small IGP", which if you are on 7 year old IGP, 1080p gaming is already gonna be massively filling every CU and utilization will be high, but as you go higher - you need to be a bit smarter with resource allocation, and Intel fails there

First gen has its flaws Battlemage better not be another rdna3

my reasoning for me to not want an Ally is a three-way combo mixed with good old reliability and heat issues the screen is too high resolution and too high refresh rate to ever make sense on a handheld if you don't want your battery to last 30 minutes (720p/800p at between 30-60hz is perfectly serviceable on a handheld), controls are far too Xbox focused to ever be convenient for weird use-cases (like using the DESKTOP), and the entire software experience, especially the fact that it runs Windows, is an immediate deal breaker. doesn't help that it doesn't have the best QC and it can melt my fucking SD card

i dislike the rog ally so much, because i feel burned by the "custom silicon" they announced

7:56 AM

it was a fucking 7840U rebrand

so kde is actually really fucking cool

The whole ally is a mess A 350 bucks deck decks it

Z1 Extreme!!!!!!! (aka the Ryzen 7 7840U)

Egdarska

so kde is actually really fucking cool

Told ya

steamdeck is slower

7:57 AM

at 15W it's a bit slower

7:57 AM

but then you play anything else, or put a framecap

i thought it would at least need the app running but it really feels seamless

it's slower but it's also the far more well-rounded device

Not so much to justify the Ls of the ally

yeah, I mean it as a "funny gotcha"

7:57 AM

the rog ally is faster, but only if you trash your battery life

7:57 AM

if you run it at 10W, the deck is faster

7:57 AM

lol

Deck, even first series with the trash ips display, still looks like a better product

i won't be interested on a handheld until we have rdna3.5 or 4

I'd easily trade performance if it means i won't be fucking tearing my hair out at every possible bad hardware or software decision

Egdarska

i won't be interested on a handheld until we have rdna3.5 or 4

i'd wait for rdna5

7:58 AM

rdna4 is rdna3++

lol

Watch them rush rdna4 too

rdna5 is the one microsoft/sony told to fuck off and get competent

so i guess that answers the question "will amd try to compensate rdna3 owners and fix their shit"

Microsoft & Sony look at RT Overdrive and ask AMD when they will be able to ship that

The one that gets into consoles is competent, look at rdna2 vs rdna1

(to be fair, that's also about the same generation that next gen systems are gonna be utilizing c.2028 so it makes sense)

GoldenX86_64

The one that gets into consoles is competent, look at rdna2 vs rdna1

the one in consoles isn't really competent

RDNA2 is architecturally fine

sony/m$ just forced amd to make it usable

it's just half-obsolete by design

The custom chip? Sure But rdna2 gave us good products and a good arch

GCN support baked into the die ❤️

no

Gcn my beloved, the OG finewine

8:00 AM

From d3d11 and ogl 4.0 to vulkan and d3d12

8:00 AM

Best fine wine so far

8:00 AM

Second best is dlss and the fun stuff nvidia is adding to their drivers

RDNA2 is honestly only held back by the fact that it's recent ~~also RT performance but to a lesser degree~~, if it were older i'd already have one jammed into my FX-6300 system

RDNA2 is architecturally good at the things it does

8:01 AM

it just doesn't do everything

nothing does everything

NVIDIA:

nvidia can't make me breakfast, AMD does that for me every day

Rdna2 is a good last hurrah to pure raster, plus some rt to not feel useless like rdna1

8:02 AM

Still selling the best budget card, the 6600

8:02 AM

The best argument against a 3050

god the RX 6600 is legitimately the BEST budget GPU i think to have ever come out, save for the GTX 1060

1060 was far better though

8:03 AM

because i could still use it for blender and stuff like that

Pascal was just too good at old rendering, plus cuda

optix support with real time denoising made it great

8:04 AM

i was also using it a lot because that's when things like esrgan became useful for regular users

8:04 AM

and i did a lot of old game texture denoising/scaling

8:04 AM

can't do that on amd faster than on cpu

I consider maxwell v1 to pascal to be the windows xp of nvidia kek

8:05 AM

Or 7 if you're not such a boomer

pascal was also a huge leap in performance

8:05 AM

almost double performance going from 960>1060

i personally think ampere was one of the worst gens

On the same node iirc

in a while

It was

8:05 AM

Close to Fermi

GoldenX86_64

On the same node iirc

nah, different node

But the king still is the FX 5000 series

8:06 AM

Nothing tops that

pascal was legitimately one of the biggest performance leaps next to GeForce 7000 to 8000, that fucking 1080 Ti was way too good, considering the fact that if not for games finally taking more advantage of RT and Mesh Shading, it'd still be a GREAT budget find if you can get it used

"D3d9" support, but broken Overheated Was slow Offered nothing valuable Overpriced

LukeTheVideoGamer

pascal was legitimately one of the biggest performance leaps next to GeForce 7000 to 8000, that fucking 1080 Ti was way too good, considering the fact that if not for games finally taking more advantage of RT and Mesh Shading, it'd still be a GREAT budget find if you can get it used

(and, in fact, it is if you straight up do not care about recent releases)

Oh geforce 8 still is the biggest leap ever

8:07 AM

Pascal to turing is meh compared to curie to tesla

8:08 AM

Just too much at the same time

to think that there used to be a time where you could go up a single generation and go from "playable" to straight up performant without completely breaking the bank

LukeTheVideoGamer

pascal was legitimately one of the biggest performance leaps next to GeForce 7000 to 8000, that fucking 1080 Ti was way too good, considering the fact that if not for games finally taking more advantage of RT and Mesh Shading, it'd still be a GREAT budget find if you can get it used

1080 Ti aged like trash

oooh that's a hot take if I've ever seen one

it just was so fast for the time, that even losing 40% performance means it was still ahead

the mistake nvidia has never made again

Turing: "we added those tensor units only rich kids with maxwell v4 could get (volta) and added these shiny new fixed function rt units, the real chad is the software department" Tesla: "we're the new world order in gpu design"

nvidia really fucked up by making the 1080 ti so fast and not charging $1600 for it

Kek yes

the 4090 would be a good GPU if it wasn't $2300 right now

I mean

Bet jensen beats himself up because of that

2060 can outperform the 1080 Ti

8:11 AM

it's fine

8:11 AM

lol

he could have advanced the current pricing by 3 years

Well duh, see how well kepler does at d3d12 why don't you

we'd be at $1900 for a flagship by now

exio4

2060 can outperform the 1080 Ti

ive seen exactly two reasons why this can be: ray tracing, and mesh shading

LukeTheVideoGamer

ive seen exactly two reasons why this can be: ray tracing, and mesh shading

it's called FP16

And async compute

yep

8:12 AM

turing is just a massive architectural leap over pascal

8:12 AM

the problem is that you need to leverage it

Pascal was a muscle car Sooner or later that fixed rear axis has to go

i mean, that's also true but also I'm a simple ol gamer i don't give a fuck about no floating points or asynchronous computation i just want what gives me higher FPSes

1

consider it as if AMD/Intel had shipped dual core CPUs in the DOS era

8:13 AM

and then when hardware could leverage it

8:13 AM

you'd say "holy shit that thing can rip"

Software

yes, sorry

LukeTheVideoGamer

i mean, that's also true but also I'm a simple ol gamer i don't give a fuck about no floating points or asynchronous computation i just want what gives me higher FPSes

they just showed why it gets worse performance

i know

️

Turing is a crysis era moment Everyone vibing to d3d9, then boom, d3d10 features And then it takes years to use them

8:15 AM

1080 Ti is the 11 TFLOPS (FP32) 2060 is almost 13 TFLOPS (FP16)

in all honesty though, i do like Turing... i just don't think its price to performance on the used market right now is worth it compared to EITHER the generation before or the generation after.

turing only made sense for a brief period of time

Keep in mind that fp16 limitation on Pascal is a software lock, the switch is 2:1 like Turing

when the super series launched, or if you picked a 2060S for $300 before the 30 series launched like I did

GoldenX86_64

Keep in mind that fp16 limitation on Pascal is a software lock, the switch is 2:1 like Turing

no, it isn't a software lock

8:16 AM

it's an optimization to make the gpu bigger

Just drop one fp16 every 4 of the other or so?

Pascal can do FP16 at 11TFLOPS

8:16 AM

by just using the FP32 units

8:17 AM

the FP16 is the real FP16 compute it has, which is what got nerfed on Pascal

8:17 AM

the software bit is the FP64 stuff

And nintendo asked for the real deal?

switch is maxwell

it's also got ASTC

8:17 AM

it's a different sub-branch

Maxwell and pascal are 99% the same thing

if you think about it all Nvidia GPUs are just Maxwell but better

no

and the gpu is not just a maxwell gpu, they made lots of changes (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

if you think about it all Nvidia GPUs are just Maxwell but better

not really

8:18 AM

Turing was the latest major rework

yuh huh

you had Maxwell => Pascal, Turing => Ampere = > Ada

Volta is maxwell v4, you won't change my mind

Volta is weird

Pascal with tensor

it's not pascal either

Shares the same driver bugs tho kek

Volta never made it to a "GTX" consumer card IIRC, which made seeing videos on the Titan V back in 2017-2018 before Turing all the stranger

it's like.. you know the proto-RDNA2 that is half-GCN-half-RDNA1-half-RDNA2 somehow of the PS5?

8:19 AM

that's kinda what it is to turing and pascal

8:19 AM

it is pascal with turing architectural details put into use, and early tensor

A gtx 750 and a Volta are the same for yuzu, it's so weird

LukeTheVideoGamer

Volta never made it to a "GTX" consumer card IIRC, which made seeing videos on the Titan V back in 2017-2018 before Turing all the stranger

yea i dont think they did

technically, could a Titan V utilize DLSS 2 if it really wanted to?

uhhhh

I think it can

I am not sure, Titan V's tensor is very weird

technically yeah

it only supports some really old types

8:20 AM

like, turing is aging now too

8:20 AM

it doesn't do bf16

8:20 AM

because that's newer

I remember it being listed for dlss1 support

lol

Volta's tensors are also ... more isolated

8:21 AM

they have more overhead

might as well just do fsr1 and taau

We need to get one, see if cp77 offers ray reconstruction

im ngl the 1080 Ti woulda been killer if it got a Volta refresh :3

while on Turing and onwards they are much better

LukeTheVideoGamer

im ngl the 1080 Ti woulda been killer if it got a Volta refresh :3

that's just a new card, they can name it what they want

kinda like Turing's OFA

Egdarska

that's just a new card, they can name it what they want

the GTX 1580

1080 ti super

cursed

pronounced tie

Super tie

(can't use 1680 those series of cards are Turing)

Meanwhile, AMD refreshing polaris

i dont mind pascal for the time

8:23 AM

but turing was basically the same price new and massively ahead

Heh remember the pitch for polaris? Exio you will love it

SLI

8:23 AM

lisa su did it too

No

8:23 AM

Worse

wait, it wasn't?

VR support for 200 usd

ohhh

Back then

yeah

We know how that went

exio4

but turing was basically the same price new and massively ahead

i'm a turing-stan because rt cores and tensor are so based as a concept tbh

8:24 AM

tensor on nvidia is funny

VR for the masses? nah, crypto for the masses

Still better than the compute accelerated audio of gcn3

8:24 AM

That died fast

GoldenX86_64

VR support for 200 usd

i remember that

8:25 AM

it was almost usable

just to give you a funny: my 2060 super has more tensor compute than the 7900 XTX's maximum throughput

Almost, and nvidia was still better

exio4

just to give you a funny: my 2060 super has more tensor compute than the 7900 XTX's maximum throughput

But compute denoising

exio4

just to give you a funny: my 2060 super has more tensor compute than the 7900 XTX's maximum throughput

(yes, you have to use smaller integers on turing)

8:25 AM

but it is just funny, 2060 super, we all realize this right

8:25 AM

Almost the smallest tensor bro

it's just very hard to use because the cache of Turing gpus is very small, so you need to hyper-optimize the code

i still can't recover from the 2070 super beating the 7900xtx at rendering before hip-rt

8:26 AM

and the 2600 super was like almost up to it

I mean, if you wanna laugh, a 4060 has more RT grunt than all of Turing - and a 3070, and all of RDNA3

8:27 AM

note, 4060, not 4060 Ti

8:27 AM

this is the $299 card

8:27 AM

128-bit bus, too

8x slot

8:28 AM

4x next gen, calling it

exio4

I mean, if you wanna laugh, a 4060 has more RT grunt than all of Turing - and a 3070, and all of RDNA3

this graph is so fucking funny but in a sad way

8x gen 4 isn't it?

yes

is there any workload that will saturate it?

like the RX 6600 / 6600 XT

8:29 AM

yes, Doom Eternal at maximum textures

Or totk

like i can think of a few but not very common

8:29 AM

and it's irrelevant for blender anyway which is the graph

either way, something to keep in mind

Pcie5 should sort this out

NVIDIA's memory compression is better

you can use gen 3 1x and not see a difference on blender

by only a few hundred MB or so

8:30 AM

but 8GB on NVIDIA is actually closer to like 8.5-9 on AMD lol

8:30 AM

depending on the workload

The 6900xt losing to the arc kek

exio4

but 8GB on NVIDIA is actually closer to like 8.5-9 on AMD lol

real apple vibes

Arc's not even properly utilized there

exio4

depending on the workload

Can confirm

8:30 AM

Its true, you save around a gb at best

like, Arc with half-broken drivers

i remember that was an nvidia point with pascal, the bus didn't matter because special compression

Egdarska

i remember that was an nvidia point with pascal, the bus didn't matter because special compression

the bus? as in memory bus?

8:31 AM

or what?

Egdarska

real apple vibes

8GB of RAM is equal to 16GB guys trust

LukeTheVideoGamer

8GB of RAM is equal to 16GB guys trust

apple delusions are funny

8:31 AM

they could have said 12GB and not even be that wrong

exio4

the bus? as in memory bus?

yeah, back when they downgraded it to 192bit for the xx60 series

Until you call the gpu

or was it 128

There was a 160 bit 1060 iirc

they could have showed how Apple's apps use much less RAM than Windows' equivalents

Egdarska

yeah, back when they downgraded it to 192bit for the xx60 series

I mean, they did it again (RDNA2 w/ Infinity Cache, NVIDIA w/ the bus reduction across the stack on Ada)

GoldenX86_64

There was a 160 bit 1060 iirc

there was a ddr3 1060 but we don't count those

1

exio4

they could have showed how Apple's apps use much less RAM than Windows' equivalents

that wouldn't really matter because the system uses more RAM than a fresh install of Windows idling on the desktop

LukeTheVideoGamer

that wouldn't really matter because the system uses more RAM than a fresh install of Windows idling on the desktop

that is not an issue (edited)

8:32 AM

that's on purpose

8:32 AM

Apple will try to use memory just in case

8:32 AM

if you might need an app, it'll preload it

8:32 AM

and stay in cache

"that's on purpose" dude a fresh macOS install without any other apps opened uses 5GB just sitting there

Unused ram is wasted ram

it'll also preemptively swap things (windows does this too)

LukeTheVideoGamer

"that's on purpose" dude a fresh macOS install without any other apps opened uses 5GB just sitting there

yes, it actually preloads things like the notes app, calendar, etc

LukeTheVideoGamer

"that's on purpose" dude a fresh macOS install without any other apps opened uses 5GB just sitting there

that's really not an issue unless the ram isn't released when needed

1

Using all ram as a cache is actually good use of ram

it actually makes me mad when games won't use more than 8GB becaue they're hardwired to have that limit, and then they have to work harder to pull assets from storage

8:34 AM

like it's not a problem now with fast storage

this is what I've got right now on this 32GB laptop - I'm technically using 26GB on apps, and 4GB of swap

but it's been an issue since we used hdds

The difference is that apple uses 5gb, and windows on an 8gb system uses 20gb The rest is in page file

i actually really dislike the whole "unused ram is wasted ram" mindset because i honestly think there isn't a worse way to waste ram than to fucking preload applications i will never use and immediately go into swap just because an app calls for more memory that i cannot give it

And linux chills with 1gb kek

but I can run LM Studio, have the GPU decide to pull 7-9GB of memory for the GPU, and it'll handle it fine

LukeTheVideoGamer

i actually really dislike the whole "unused ram is wasted ram" mindset because i honestly think there isn't a worse way to waste ram than to fucking preload applications i will never use and immediately go into swap just because an app calls for more memory that i cannot give it

?

GoldenX86_64

The difference is that apple uses 5gb, and windows on an 8gb system uses 20gb The rest is in page file

yuzu users be like i optimized yuzu guys, i downloaded a program that sends everything to swap

8:35 AM

pls add this to yuzu

no, that's the thing, it preloads them, as in preemptively, it's basically free ram

LukeTheVideoGamer

i actually really dislike the whole "unused ram is wasted ram" mindset because i honestly think there isn't a worse way to waste ram than to fucking preload applications i will never use and immediately go into swap just because an app calls for more memory that i cannot give it

If the os wasn't pure bloat, you wouldn't need to touch swap

no, swap is fine

what im TRYING to say is that no, unused ram isn't wasted, i just want the peace of mind that low number gives a primordial part of my funky lil brain

in fact, in an ideal world - you DO use swap

2gb of swap at boot is fine 30 is a microsoft moment

exio4

in fact, in an ideal world - you DO use swap

i fucking HATE swap

LukeTheVideoGamer

i fucking HATE swap

we don't live in the hard drive days anymore

You still wait for the ssd

depending on what you do swap can be necessary

SATA is cringe for swap

8:36 AM

but NVMe can do fine

a large render will use 64GB of ram and 120GB in swap

8:36 AM

if you have only 32GB lol

exio4

SATA is cringe for swap

i used to do cpu rendering on 16GB of ram, with swap on hdd

Egdarska

depending on what you do swap can be necessary

i will sooner buy a RAM upgrade than ever trust my system to go into swap

Now imagine you get charged 500 bucks for 32 gb

LukeTheVideoGamer

i will sooner buy a RAM upgrade than ever trust my system to go into swap

you can't "outrun" caches

And it's not even ecc

every file you load ends up in RAM - and unless explicitly cleared, it'll stay there, even if you close the app

just get 1TB of l3 cache bro

Intel optane be like

idgaf i am a fucking freak when it comes to memory usage, and imo, the less chance it has of having to be written to my storage drive even temporarily, the better.

lol

is it weird, irrational, and stupid to think that way? YES!

wait until he finds out the system doesn't even report every swap instance

a modern SSD can take a few terabytes a yar without even caring

but i like it, so i try to live that way as much as i can

year*

LukeTheVideoGamer

is it weird, irrational, and stupid to think that way? YES!

you're making the experience worse

Yar

8:38 AM

Yar yar bings

mesa hates the swaps

Egdarska

wait until he finds out the system doesn't even report every swap instance

"he" atp i should just fucking change my name

idk i don't read bios

like, on macOS - on 32GB, I constantly am swapping, just because the desktop widgets, if I don't look at the desktop (and 'memory pressure' isn't super low) - it'll automatically send things to swap

Egdarska

idk i don't read bios

that's understandable

Egdarska

idk i don't read bios

uefi man

lel

Kek

sorry for being very irritable i just uggghhhh

Sorry i only navigate the uefi with the mouse, i don't read bios

i want a laptop with 3 nvme slots so i can keep an ssd just for swap

1

Based

GoldenX86_64

Sorry i only navigate the uefi with the mouse, i don't read bios

Sorry, i only use ryzen master

i just really do not like wasted things, especially wasted storage space and memory use. my problem with that though is that my idea of "wasted" is very... well. you already have an idea from my previous messages.

golden trying to find when we'll beat him up fr

i guess it could be possible to route one of the usb-c connections with a cable and tape an ssd inside

8:41 AM

there's actually some space by the radiator

LukeTheVideoGamer

i just really do not like wasted things, especially wasted storage space and memory use. my problem with that though is that my idea of "wasted" is very... well. you already have an idea from my previous messages.

something to keep in mind, RAM by itself uses the "same power" staying on empty or full

this laptop be roomy

8:42 AM

exio would hate it, the thickest part is like 1''

Ram exists, needs to be filled, then die The cycle of data

memory only really changes power consumption and you can say oh it's a power thing, it's less efficient - if it actively has to do extra power management

GoldenX86_64

Ram exists, needs to be filled, then die The cycle of data

I READ, I DIE, I READ AGAIN

1

i also just... REALLY dislike the whole "unused ram is wasted ram" argument

Egdarska

exio would hate it, the thickest part is like 1''

Don't make me remember my 1.5 inches pentium 4 laptop

oh you got the thin model

8:43 AM

i had a piece of shit gateway thing that was like 2.5''

Egdarska

exio would hate it, the thickest part is like 1''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpOYr_o8LW8

Sanguine Skull Ch.

Doctor Breen Hates Gaming Laptops (AI Voice Meme)

Yeah only had a radeon igpu

LukeTheVideoGamer

i also just... REALLY dislike the whole "unused ram is wasted ram" argument

it isn't like wrong to think that way mind you, i just disagree with that mindset.

but the speakers were amazing for the time

In 2002

LukeTheVideoGamer

it isn't like wrong to think that way mind you, i just disagree with that mindset.

... you disagree... with like, how computers work?

yes

8:44 AM

i think they're dumb and stupid idiots that should think better

they don't think tho

I do too They can't cook for me

fr

exio4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpOYr_o8LW8

the speakers had subwoofer air ports

So expensive, can't improve my daily life

i've never seen anything like it again

Egdarska

the speakers had subwoofer air ports

... what?!

but i would buy one if they made it

Old laptops had crazy sound design

exio4

... what?!

you know how subwoofers have big holes that push air so the bass thumps?

when making a laptop 4 inches thick was just necesssary

it had those but small

Egdarska

you know how subwoofers have big holes that push air so the bass thumps?

yes

small meaning like 1.5''

Lol

i mean

i just miss that era of not giving a shit if a laptop was thin enough

on a power consumption and PURELY TECHNICAL standpoint, yes, "unused ram" is wasted ram. but that's not what im thinking about when i use my computer. when i use my computer, im thinking "hmm, how much memory is taken up by these applications, and if they fill up the available pool, how much would i need to free up to run another application?" THAT'S why i don't like the "unused ram" shit

if it fit in a backpack it was considered portable

doesn't apple use these for bass technically

i doubt you feel that very much

LukeTheVideoGamer

on a power consumption and PURELY TECHNICAL standpoint, yes, "unused ram" is wasted ram. but that's not what im thinking about when i use my computer. when i use my computer, im thinking "hmm, how much memory is taken up by these applications, and if they fill up the available pool, how much would i need to free up to run another application?" THAT'S why i don't like the "unused ram" shit

there is a problem there

8:47 AM

computers don't run on a 1 GB used (virtual) = 1 GB used (physical)

LukeTheVideoGamer

on a power consumption and PURELY TECHNICAL standpoint, yes, "unused ram" is wasted ram. but that's not what im thinking about when i use my computer. when i use my computer, im thinking "hmm, how much memory is taken up by these applications, and if they fill up the available pool, how much would i need to free up to run another application?" THAT'S why i don't like the "unused ram" shit

Serious case of install gentoo there You can literally run a browser with 512mb there

LukeTheVideoGamer

on a power consumption and PURELY TECHNICAL standpoint, yes, "unused ram" is wasted ram. but that's not what im thinking about when i use my computer. when i use my computer, im thinking "hmm, how much memory is taken up by these applications, and if they fill up the available pool, how much would i need to free up to run another application?" THAT'S why i don't like the "unused ram" shit

im thinking about PURELY how the software experience ties into my hardware, not the hardware itself, and to THAT degree, i don't see how any of my memory is "wasted"

on almost every computer out there you have:

preemptive caching/preload
memory compression
preemptive swapping

8:48 AM

or memory mapped files

again, it's purely irrational base reactions and shit, but it's how i tend to roll in general, so...

GoldenX86_64

Serious case of install gentoo there You can literally run a browser with 512mb there

i remember installing puppy linux on a really old laptop that had like 256MB of ram

8:48 AM

it was surprisingly usable

1

8:48 AM

if all you needed was a browser and maybe write a document

LukeTheVideoGamer

again, it's purely irrational base reactions and shit, but it's how i tend to roll in general, so...

I just mention it because I feel like understanding why this doesn't work the way you think it does might help you appreciate the tricks!

exio4

on almost every computer out there you have:

preemptive caching/preload
memory compression
preemptive swapping

mfs be like i completely shut down windows, everything had to reset

8:49 AM

microsoft: word?

8:49 AM

b-but i turned off fast boot or whatever

for example - memory mapped files are files that are read by the app, and they can use memory, but they don't have to be in memory, so if the RAM they use is needed, they'll just be ignored, and when you run the app again, those bits that were cleared from memory will be... read again from disk!

exio4

I just mention it because I feel like understanding why this doesn't work the way you think it does might help you appreciate the tricks!

... i don't appreciate the tricks because i LEGITIMATELY do not see why or how they are useful. which, in that regard, i guess i should appreciate them, since they're working as intended, as invisible behind the scenes functions keeping everything working???? i dunno man.

and the trick here, if you have memory mapped files, and they're used by multiple apps, the OS automatically "deduplicates" them

LukeTheVideoGamer

... i don't appreciate the tricks because i LEGITIMATELY do not see why or how they are useful. which, in that regard, i guess i should appreciate them, since they're working as intended, as invisible behind the scenes functions keeping everything working???? i dunno man.

the key here is that modern computing is enabled by hundreds of tricks

i just go by "oh this thing is going super high... don't like that don't like that at all" because that is my reaction to literally any number going big when there's also a known "upper limit"

boot times even on modern hardware would be rough without those memory mapped files

LukeTheVideoGamer

i just go by "oh this thing is going super high... don't like that don't like that at all" because that is my reaction to literally any number going big when there's also a known "upper limit"

there isn't a "single" upper limit

8:51 AM

it is workload dependent

8:52 AM

macOS' Activity Monitor represents this in an user-friendly way: Memory Pressure

8:52 AM

dude it's 1:50am im not gonna be perfectly capable of wording everything to a degree that you'd agree with

green = good, yellow = be careful, red = bro one more and i'll tell you to fuck off

if you use any ML program that bar will always be red

the key here is that memory pressure is NOT pure memory utilization, because again: things which you don't use can just be compressed! you might decide to be extra inefficient, e.g. if you have a lot of tabs - you might decide to keep them in RAM, even if it isn't necessary, just because they'll load a tiny bit faster

ive been trying to tell you for the past 15 fucking minutes or so that this is literally my IRRATIONAL TAKE on something that is entirely RATIONAL. IRRATIONALLY, i see big number and go "uh oh that's bad" or "oh hey that's good!", when logically, and RATIONALLY, i should be focusing on all the different, smaller nuances instead

you can have memory-mapped files, which are compressed, so going through the file is still MUCH faster than going to your SSD

LukeTheVideoGamer

ive been trying to tell you for the past 15 fucking minutes or so that this is literally my IRRATIONAL TAKE on something that is entirely RATIONAL. IRRATIONALLY, i see big number and go "uh oh that's bad" or "oh hey that's good!", when logically, and RATIONALLY, i should be focusing on all the different, smaller nuances instead

I just feel the need to explain it, because as a nerd that is interested in these things, I consider this stuff one of those crazy things that allow modern computing to become viable

8:55 AM

like, video compression made video streaming possible

8:56 AM

1080p 60 fps video at 8 bit per channel, would require 373 megabytes a second 3 gigabits of internet, just to watch 1080p video in realtime

8:56 AM

4K 60 would require 4 times that

i see high framerate and go "that's good i think keep it up

" but i don't immediately think to check frametimes or latency. i see high memory use and go "uh oh that's not good i should close some apps" but I don't immediately think "hmm, but my system hasn't crashed, and logically it isn't going to unless i put every app under extreme pressure"

exactly, that is why I talked about Memory Pressure

8:57 AM

Apple is actively creating a "new fake unit" to represent the actual memory load of the system

exio4

Apple is actively creating a "new fake unit" to represent the actual memory load of the system

userbenchmark moment

Egdarska

userbenchmark moment

it does make sense, though

sure it does bud

you can ask a normal person "run activity monitor, is the thing there green"

8:57 AM

"how high is it"

8:58 AM

"ok so it's not memory problems"

8:58 AM

(or it is lol)

how are your effective frames per second?

on a purely irrational basis, i like low memory usage and as little use of swap/page as i can get. logically, rationally, i know i should know better than that.

Egdarska

how are your effective frames per second?

this is basically an user-friendly abstraction, it is useful to gauge how much of the memory you have can be compressed, how much is actively required to keep the OS running, etc

8:59 AM

you could look at linux tier stats of types of pages

9:00 AM

I'm not saying it is a "real comparable unit across PCs"

LukeTheVideoGamer

on a purely irrational basis, i like low memory usage and as little use of swap/page as i can get. logically, rationally, i know i should know better than that.

it doesn't help that ive been conditioned by my phone and crappy low end laptops with 4GB of RAM that if i exceed that physical pool of memory (perceived, obviously, not accounting for anything else), then apps will either slow to a crawl or just "crash" or close

it is basically workload, ram size, cpu, ssd, etc dependent

9:01 AM

if you have a faster SSD - with a faster SoC, your memory pressure can go higher before it starts hurting the user experience

honestly with how my system is currently configured im more likely to run into a CPU or GPU bottleneck before i end up actually using all my memory

my phone has 4GB of RAM

9:03 AM

apple moment, but they do ram compression and all the tricks

my phone has 8GB of ram but because Android is a fuck if i have more than 5 apps open in the background (give or take) then shit'll start excising itself from the background to free up memory

android is a clusterfuck of memory management

9:04 AM

every OEM is different in their own weird way

9:04 AM

iOS isn't that good, mind you - on a 2GB or 3GB iphone you're still very tight

google pixel 8... grrrr.... Google MAKES Android they should try making Android 15 actually good with memory management

https://arxiv.org/abs/2312.11514

LLM in a flash: Efficient Large Language Model Inference with Limit...

Large language models (LLMs) are central to modern natural language processing, delivering exceptional performance in various tasks. However, their substantial computational and memory requirements present challenges, especially for devices with limited DRAM capacity. This paper tackles the challenge of efficiently running LLMs that exceed the a...

9:05 AM

this is one of Apple's latest papers

exio4

android is a clusterfuck of memory management

android memory management seems to have actually gotten worse

exio4

https://arxiv.org/abs/2312.11514

considering rumors of an LLM powered Siri or whatnot for iOS 18, i am unsurprised at the topic shown here.

I'm very curious about what Apple will do with LLMs

9:06 AM

they hate unpredictable user-facing features

9:06 AM

they do a lot of machine learning, but it's all the subtle small stuff around the OS that makes it go the extra mile, or to allow edge-compute

Egdarska

android memory management seems to have actually gotten worse

i wouldn't doubt that for a second sadly

Egdarska

android memory management seems to have actually gotten worse

why so btw

might be just anecdotal, but i had an lg 2GB device before and i didn't see as many apps being restarted

9:13 AM

i could have like 6 open at the same time and swap between them and sometimes they would take a few seconds to come back but they'd be where i left off

9:13 AM

modern android just nukes them

@exio4 kde connect is better than i thought

9:24 AM

it turbocharged my phone

9:25 AM

wait, it changed, sad, it used to read 125

9:25 AM

there we go

lol

Egdarska

might be just anecdotal, but i had an lg 2GB device before and i didn't see as many apps being restarted

apps did get much heavier

exio4

apps did get much heavier

no, but i mean like when they'd use up all the ram anyway, and i also had games running back then

9:32 AM

these days it seems like if ram runs out it just gives up and closes the apps rather than try to swap

i'm confused rn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uUNvPKvS_s

Vikas Music

Fortunate Son - Eurobeat Remix

9:39 AM

this still slaps

9:39 AM

i keep checking back to make sure he's still dead

wut

Egdarska

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uUNvPKvS_s

RIP bozo? What about Jeff Bozos?

exio4

wut

he made it when kissinger died

oh based

Egdarska

modern android just nukes them

My phone has a "keep open" option for apps. Galaxy Fold 5, probably on other Samsung phones.

i think all android phones do

10:02 AM

the trick is how it deals with running out of memory if you have several apps that are marked as keep open

i cant keep apps open on ios lol

10:21 AM

Apple knows what's best for me

supposedly

shut up and buy the new device

Egdarska

shut up and buy the new device

it works fine

10:41 AM

i'd only want one for spatial video and lidar

10:41 AM

(and brightness tbf)

10:42 AM

Apple Watch Series X seems promising though

@Egdarska

This work also draws on multi-frame and temporal super-resolution
techniques widely used in real-time rendering (for example, in video
games)

https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3306346.3323024 just in case somebody ever mentions fuck TAA, let them know their smartphone likely does TAA

Wiggle dem pixels

1:24 PM

Whatever Remedy does in their Northlight engine still looks too fuzzy to me unless you apply DLDSR

can the switch run this?

deadlybydsgn

Whatever Remedy does in their Northlight engine still looks too fuzzy to me unless you apply DLDSR

even w/ DLAA?

how do i get my encryption keys

exio4

even w/ DLAA?

I can’t recall if Control has that but I can’t really afford DLAA in Alan Wake 2

deadlybydsgn

I can’t recall if Control has that but I can’t really afford DLAA in Alan Wake 2

fair

I got my laptop just a few days ago and it's already broken, I looked at the TrustPilot rating of this company and everyone says that their laptop begins to be non-functional. For me it's the screen, 50% of it is just dead pixel and the GPU makes artifacts... (edited) And I can't be refunded so I guess 1340€ wasted. So I bought components to make a new desktop PC.

11:20 PM

(they deny return and exchange as people says in their statement)

Yann BOYER

I got my laptop just a few days ago and it's already broken, I looked at the TrustPilot rating of this company and everyone says that their laptop begins to be non-functional. For me it's the screen, 50% of it is just dead pixel and the GPU makes artifacts... (edited) And I can't be refunded so I guess 1340€ wasted. So I bought components to make a new desktop PC.

what company? just curious

Yann BOYER

I got my laptop just a few days ago and it's already broken, I looked at the TrustPilot rating of this company and everyone says that their laptop begins to be non-functional. For me it's the screen, 50% of it is just dead pixel and the GPU makes artifacts... (edited) And I can't be refunded so I guess 1340€ wasted. So I bought components to make a new desktop PC.

You're in the EU, you have a right to refund it.

11:52 PM

My son

11:53 PM

Did you pay in cash? Debit card? Credit card?

11:53 PM

CC = you can do a chargeback. (edited)

11:53 PM

Debit card = you can open a dispute but it's more difficult

squanchy 🥗

Did you pay in cash? Debit card? Credit card?

I paid in X4 payement with debit card.

Cash = letter before action. Sue them in small claims court.

11:54 PM

Was the laptop supposed to be new?

11:54 PM

Debit card? Talk to your bank. They'll tell you what you should do.

squanchy 🥗

Was the laptop supposed to be new?

Yes, it's a custom laptop.

11:57 PM

I just accepted that it's wasted money.

11:57 PM

I'll never order again from PC Specialist FR.

11:57 PM

And they lied to me.

11:58 PM

They put a 45W RTX 4050 instead of a 140W RTX 4050, so yeah...

11:58 PM

(the website I configured my laptop on LITERALLY said 140W RTX 4050)

11:58 PM

I'm waiting for my desktop PC components to arrive so I can build this new desktop PC.

Decided to try an autobrightness app for the laptop on fedora and works like a charm, sets display and keyboard leds

@Petracore if u wanna move the discussion here

oh sorry

4:44 AM

There's something else i'm curious about, a lot of games and applications aren't compatible with apple, is that due to the fact that it's on arm, the fact that their gpu's only run metal or something else or a combination

yes

@Petracore replying to compatibility, it's "a bunch of things" 1) their GPU is an iteration-of-an-iteration-of-an-iteration of a mobile GPU, inherently gonna end up behaving differently immediate rendering vs deferred rendering tradeoffs are different, so naive code won't be as efficient for some tasks - it's a question of bandwidth/cache utilization in that regard 2) their own limitation of "focusing on Metal" has meant that they actively ignore things they don't care about, even if others are doing it; which means that some features are straight up missing, which means that if you do things like geometry shaders or tesselation, those would have to be 100% emulated (through mesh shaders) 3) all of this is still an excuse, Apple for example, has released GPTK - a Metal conversion of dxvk, which can run many games on macOS through translation layers, they run poorly tho - but they can run; it does offer the emulation stuff I mention, and it's explicitly meant to be a technology preview for game devs to see if a mac port can be viable (optimize it for metal; ship on apple silicon, and you get 2x the performance)

4:47 AM

I have run cyberpunk 2077 in macOS, the windows version of cyberpunk 2077

4:48 AM

that means there was:

Cyberpunk 2077 (x86_64)     .-> (DX12) GPTK => Metal
         \.                /
          '----Wine--Rosetta----> ARM binary

(edited)

4:49 AM

kinda like this, I think?

that's the setup my friend who's on a macbook pro has

4:50 AM

Using rosetta and whiskey

yes

4:50 AM

:meow:

that makes sense then

what frame rate do you get on alan wake 2?

i don't think gptk does mesh shaders

sad

the gpu supports them, but the dxvk version it uses is old as fuck

4:51 AM

but M2 is limited mesh shader support

4:51 AM

M3 is when mesh shader support got cranked to 11

The problem is, support for games on macs is so bad that i woudn't buy a mac unless it was cheaper and more performant than a laptop

M1/M2 do "AMD raytracing", M3 can do it like NVIDIA

Petracore

The problem is, support for games on macs is so bad that i woudn't buy a mac unless it was cheaper and more performant than a laptop

if you buy a mac for performance as a sole director, you've fucked up

yeah

they're only better value/$ in like, 2 workloads

exio4

M1/M2 do "AMD raytracing", M3 can do it like NVIDIA

No dlss?

Petracore

No dlss?

they have their own AI-driven temporal upscaler

4:53 AM

they also have their own 'adaption' of FSR1 for the spatial bit, No Man's Sky supports both, for example

4:53 AM

MetalFX Quality (temporal upscaler, AI-driven, runs on iPhones on the NPU, quality is kinda XeSS-like) MetalFX Performance (spatial upscaler, looks like shit, but extremely cheap, basically FSR1) (edited)

interesting

if you've got an iPhone 15 Pro around, you can download the first level of a resident evil game - and play with MetalFX upscaling from 400p on a phone, to like 900p

4:55 AM

resident evil 4 remake? or village? or both? no idea

one thing i don't get is why if they're supposedly consolidating the experience between mac and ios, some games are only available on phone and not on mac

it runs a bit mid

Egdarska

one thing i don't get is why if they're supposedly consolidating the experience between mac and ios, some games are only available on phone and not on mac

uhhh

4:55 AM

which games

couldn't they just let you install monster hunter stories on mac?

4:55 AM

https://apps.apple.com/mg/developer/capcom/id308807391

‎CAPCOM Apps on the App Store

‎Download apps by CAPCOM, including Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil Village, MEGA MAN X DiVE Offline and many more.

4:55 AM

or can you just install them and the mac bit just means it's exclusive to mac?

4:56 AM

you can install iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon macbooks if the devs authorize it (or actually, don't opt-out)

4:56 AM

iOS apps, too

4:56 AM

they're jank as fuck, Mac means the devs put basic effort into making the window properly resizable, and what not

4:59 AM

oh, also @Egdarska

4:59 AM

iOS games tend to be more limited in settigns

5:00 AM

they're not built with the assumption somebody can run them with 16+ GB of ram available, hell even 8

5:00 AM

(so they ship lower resolution textures, etc)

Why does apple make their products so performant if they can't run games as well (due to compatablity issues)?

exio4

(so they ship lower resolution textures, etc)

yeah, but if they can run then they should just let you run them

Petracore

Why does apple make their products so performant if they can't run games as well (due to compatablity issues)?

for phone's it's different actually, i'm mostly thinking about macs

Egdarska

yeah, but if they can run then they should just let you run them

developer's choice (or you can try sideloading the iOS app)

Petracore

Why does apple make their products so performant if they can't run games as well (due to compatablity issues)?

Less power consumption and more battery life?

Petracore

Why does apple make their products so performant if they can't run games as well (due to compatablity issues)?

Apple thinks that companies will "care about the Mac" now; on regards to gaming and what not but realistically, to do what people have been doing on macbooks for years. this time better/faster, like video editing

5:02 AM

also, something funny, they have an NPU on their laptops, and their phones ship with one for like 5-6 years by now

5:03 AM

you know Google Photos' "Here is a picture of you, and you, and you!" or if you search "red car" you get photos of red cars

5:03 AM

Apple offers E2EE (End to End Encryption) nowadays; and they planned for this - so Apple Photos (on iOS, or macOS) can run the whole object categorization thing on-device

also @exio4 how does resident evil village work on mac?

5:05 AM

it says free with in app purchase

5:05 AM

so you can just play it for free?

Digital Foundry guy says it's ok

5:05 AM

uhh

i meant the pricing lol

what

i thought it would be a purchase

5:05 AM

you're fucking right bro i'll download it to see what happens lmao

5:07 AM

IIRC the first chapter is free, but I thought uh

5:07 AM

that was only on iOS

5:08 AM

this is gonna take a whole ass day

5:08 AM

lol actually

5:08 AM

it'll be 3+ hours

L

either way, I personally have used my GPU for AI shit

5:09 AM

Is it downloading the raw installed files or something?

uhh, I assume so? apps just install afterwards and you double click on them

exio4

this is gonna take a whole ass day

is that 4 or village?

4

5:10 AM

village is 30 buckerinos

5:10 AM

sorry, $39.99

my re4 install is 60GB

so

5:10 AM

the IAP actually just unlocks it

5:10 AM

the download is downloading the whole game

kinda makes sense, it reuses assets so it would need to have a lot of duplicates if you could only download one chapter

5:41 AM

18%

5:41 AM

re village is only 34GB apparently

i'm not buying it

lol, is it also $40 in argentina?

$39.99 is around $279.99 more than i have rn

Egdarska

lol, is it also $40 in argentina?

yeah I don't think Apple really does regional pricing?

total apple move

no i mean they offer some regionalization, but not like, super deep?

5:43 AM

i'm in USD, i get fucked, etc

the game doesn't have a demo either?

also, argneitna is irrelevant

Egdarska

the game doesn't have a demo either?

village? doesn't seem like it

5:43 AM

btw, @Egdarska do you know which algorithms are used today by phones (to read the papers on how they improved real-life dlss)

you mean the camera burst thing

yes

i think it might be the same you linked

5:45 AM

yeah, it's the paper by wronski

5:45 AM

same method, i think they just change how the captures are averaged

everybody says they do machine learning now tho

5:46 AM

i wanna know where they inject the machine learning models

i think that's just to refine it, but i can't remember a paper

5:47 AM

also re village has a demo on steam, i don't know why there isn't one on mac

does re village [steam] support mac

5:47 AM

this is app store

5:47 AM

not mac

not sure

5:48 AM

says no

Egdarska

also re village has a demo on steam, i don't know why there isn't one on mac

valve did some demo initiative iirc

5:48 AM

can't remember the specifics but a lot more games have demos now

capcom always had demos, but they're always stupid

5:49 AM

RE demos have a 1 hour time limit

speedrun time

dragon quest 11 might be the best demo ever

I remember the demos in smash brawl can actually be completed lol

it was the first part of the game, like 3-6 hours of gameplay depending on how you played, and the save moved over to the full game

5:50 AM

this is like a 70-80 hour jrpg

Egdarska

says no

F then

@__fastcall trying to scream in an intimidating tone https://youtu.be/4shrHLbkliY?t=11

Parliament Of Owls

The Powerful Puma Screams!

have u seen https://www.youtube.com/c/lunathepantera

Luna_the_pantera

Этот канал о жизни и приключениях маленького леопардёнка по имени Луна, которому люди заменили родителей. This channel is about the life and adventures of a little leopard named Luna, which people have replaced the parents.

Egdarska

@__fastcall trying to scream in an intimidating tone https://youtu.be/4shrHLbkliY?t=11

guys does this mean the last growth spurt is coming

6:02 AM

or is it over

6:03 AM

gonna sound like a women

it's not joever for men until like 22

LETS GOOO

does being mentally underdeveloped count

6:03 AM

https://youtube.com/shorts/ef7KWlwmBkg

Luna_the_pantera

Sweeet

no

giant baby

6:03 AM

https://youtube.com/shorts/tMc0yXXtpIs

Luna_the_pantera

Miss! sorry,misssss….

i have now

why are big cats so cute

murder kitties

also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbx5NGIod1o femboy fishing just dropped a new video if anybody is interested

Femboy Fishing

Femboy Catches Micro Pike on a Kayak?! - Femboy Fishing S3E2

6:09 AM

https://fxtwitter.com/i/status/1759291956205605003

exio4

https://youtube.com/shorts/ef7KWlwmBkg

related to giant baby

what

it runs "fine" - performance is great, but it has shader compilation stutter or something like that

9:14 AM

this is like 1700p at 1/4 res w/ MetalFX Quality

9:18 AM

(latest 2 are 50%, 50% interlaced, with built-in TAA, prior to these 2, MetalFX Quality)

9:18 AM

matching screen resolution rn

9:19 AM

TAA+FXAA

9:19 AM

(on the later two, forgor to mention)

9:23 AM

found a problem

9:23 AM

how do i pew pew with mac trackpad

I think you can rebind aim or shoot to a keyboard key

does HDR

But i always play with controller

either way - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/475553552962682881/1209066938337337384/Screenshot_2024-02-19_at_06.20.00.png?ex=65e59255&is=65d31d55&hm=ae4c449c330da4164b57406fce58c6926e1959a56499e74a88674b0e176a3a97&

9:24 AM

this one is metalfx quality at 1900p

9:24 AM

i assume the usable space is only like 1700?

Looks acceptable

9:25 AM

Actually it looks like they changed the skin shader

given this is on a 14" display, i'm gonna be honest, i couldn't tell native from metalfx quality, metalfx performance did look different but i didn't try foliage which is where fsr1 dies

There aren't that many areas with foliage anyway

9:27 AM

It's basically just the start

9:27 AM

Most of the village area has foliage around it but not close to the player

for a more standard resolution, i can try 1440p on the 27"

9:28 AM

but being honest, I'd play at 4K + MetalFX Quality in that case lol

9:28 AM

1080p temporally upscaled to 4K, downsampled to 1440p

exio4

it runs "fine" - performance is great, but it has shader compilation stutter or something like that

is that iphone 15?

takanome9104

is that iphone 15?

macbook pro 14" m2 max base model

9:34 AM

https://www.macgamerhq.com/games/resident-evil-4-mac/

We already spoiled this section by confirming that even the cheapest, weakest M1 machine can run Resident Evil 4 at more than acceptable frame rates. Using a 1080p resolution, Balanced graphics, and Performance MetalFX presets, the game runs at an average of 46 FPS. During intense fights, frames would drop to around 35 FPS, but considering that many games run at 30 FPS on consoles, we can consider it mission accomplished for the MacBook Air.

540p => 1080p with a temporal upscaler, on a fanless laptop, while still having 4-5? hours of battery life, seems pretty good if you put a 30 fps cap

Ric Molina

Resident Evil 4 Now on Mac: M1 Native support & Benchmarks

One of the best-looking games of 2023 was just released on Mac. Resident Evil 4 on macOS is particularly surprising because it completely flew under

9:35 AM

wait, nvm

9:35 AM

spatial upscaler

9:35 AM

F

9:35 AM

either way, it does look much crisper than cyberpunk

why there is shader compilation for these laptops its just one chip it's basically a console

i said shader compilation, might be streaming issues because it decided to use the e-cores? it happened on cutscene transitions

9:39 AM

i need to boot it again but i burned 30% of my battery in like 25 minutes

9:39 AM

i'm fine rn

is it hot

9:40 AM

takanome9104

is it hot

fans turned on extremely quickly, preemptively, faster than on any other workload - because game mode knew it was GAMING time

i thought it was fanless

this is the macbook pro

bruh

not the air

are you in apple HQ right now

why

two minutes ago you have the base model

He's using the M4 Pro Max Ultra chip

takanome9104

two minutes ago you have the base model

"m2 max base model"

9:45 AM

the base mode of the m2 max chip

9:46 AM

it's also the 14", so it performs the worst because it's on the smallest/most power constrained chassis

Moonlacer

He's using the M4 Pro Max Ultra chip

I'd love an M4 Pro

exio4

(latest 2 are 50%, 50% interlaced, with built-in TAA, prior to these 2, MetalFX Quality)

is metal fx quality 50%?

10:27 AM

this is 3072x1728 with dlss performance

10:30 AM

also for some reason i'm getting consistently higher frame rate wt this resolution than 1080p with dlss performance

Can I even fit a decent GPU in here? Are single fan cards all that will fit? 315x170x345 (mm) pretty crappy case, maybe I should think of buying another. Well, I did cheap out on it (as in, "damn I forgot I needed a case") (edited)

Nuki

Can I even fit a decent GPU in here? Are single fan cards all that will fit? 315x170x345 (mm) pretty crappy case, maybe I should think of buying another. Well, I did cheap out on it (as in, "damn I forgot I needed a case") (edited)

That looks regular sized, could probably fit a dual fan gpu

3:58 PM

Looks tall and thicc enough

Egdarska

That looks regular sized, could probably fit a dual fan gpu

well there's not a lot of airflow a bigger gpu might overheat lol, that's also one of my worries

4:00 PM

my cpu is fine with the stock cooler

Nuki

well there's not a lot of airflow a bigger gpu might overheat lol, that's also one of my worries

Not if you keep the side off!

4:00 PM

Who needs glass side plates anyways

that's acrylic but yeah I could leave it off I guess

If its clear its just gonna increase airflow if you take it off

4:01 PM

Unless there is like, cleaning considerations to be taken

it would be a dust magnet

4:02 PM

lol

If you don't mind diy you could cut a big hole in it and glue a mesh to it

exio4

i need to boot it again but i burned 30% of my battery in like 25 minutes

gaming laptop fr fr

fr

Egdarska

That looks regular sized, could probably fit a dual fan gpu

that's good looking into the 5500xt and 6500xt sadly 6600xt is out of my budget, which isn't high lol Looking into both because the latter honestly looks like a downgrade, or a sidegrade at best, from the 5500xt (edited)

>ayymd

AMD or nothing I'm not going nvidia (edited)

Egdarska

I was waiting for it to load... that emote is literally invisible in AMOLED dark mode

Lel

6:17 PM

They shoulda made a red version too

team dead

Nuki

AMD or nothing I'm not going nvidia (edited)

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Friends don't let friends buy amd gpus

6:35 PM

Even an intel gpu is better, it will work eventually

SadSinglePringle

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

AMD OR NOTHING I'M NOT GOING NVIDIA

7:01 PM

surely you heard it now

WHY

7:02 PM

why do you hate yourself?

1

Nuki

that's good looking into the 5500xt and 6500xt sadly 6600xt is out of my budget, which isn't high lol Looking into both because the latter honestly looks like a downgrade, or a sidegrade at best, from the 5500xt (edited)

Dont get shit you will regret it

Radeon is probably the right choice for that low a budget

SadSinglePringle

why do you hate yourself?

I don't hate myself, I hate nvidia (edited)

where did jensen touch you

Nuki

I don't hate myself, I hate nvidia (edited)

must be a linux user

greggle

where did jensen touch you

jensen doesn't need women he's got his leather jacket

A good friend of mine is staunchly team red for GPUs. He had a 980 for a while but he hasn’t said a good thing about Nvidia for almost 10 years

Meanwhile i struggle to think of a legitimately good thing about modern amd gpus

7:52 PM

They have lots of vram i guess

they can in fact display graphics

7:54 PM

... sometimes

Mine does enable freesync, so that's good i guess

every now and again a developer will fuck up nvidia optimizations

7:59 PM

in such cases you get incredible wins of like 5%

Nuki

Can I even fit a decent GPU in here? Are single fan cards all that will fit? 315x170x345 (mm) pretty crappy case, maybe I should think of buying another. Well, I did cheap out on it (as in, "damn I forgot I needed a case") (edited)

This means NOTHING to me.

8:33 PM

NOTHING

8:33 PM

You need to measure out the GPU clearance, not the overall dimensions of the case.

greggle

they can in fact display graphics

fr

❓

Egdarska

is metal fx quality 50%?

yes

SadSinglePringle

gaming laptop fr fr

real

it's drawing power like a gaming laptop lol

Some AMD cards seem like a good value rn if all you want is vram and raster speed and don’t care about power or heat

8:39 PM

Like the 6800xt

8:40 PM

That’s what the friend I just mentioned is running

8:41 PM

If I’m remembering my charts right, I think it’s somewhere around 4070ti in raster speed. Or maybe it was the regular 4070 (edited)

SadSinglePringle

it's drawing power like a gaming laptop lol

it used more than usual

so?

8:42 PM

when gaming your chewing through battery life (edited)

SadSinglePringle

so?

even with heavy combined workloads, without gaming, it's usually like only 50W max

deadlybydsgn

If I’m remembering my charts right, I think it’s somewhere around 4070ti in raster speed. Or maybe it was the regular 4070 (edited)

4070 not the ti

1

Thanks. I’m in a car rn or I’d otherwise check (edited)

but still its good for raster tbh

8:43 PM

AMD gpus need to be 1 tier better performance/$ (if you're am AMD fanboy) or 2-4 depending on what you do

deadlybydsgn

Thanks. I’m in a car rn or I’d otherwise check (edited)

here you go

1

@exio4 I tried Alan Wake 2 with DLAA last night just to see and it did look okay

DLAA is insanely heavy so might as well cry

It’s not terrible with the fake frame gen mod, but still feels more sluggish than it reports in the afterburner overlay

8:46 PM

So it’s either do DLDSR + DLSS and feel more responsive or run DLAA at native with fake frame gen and feel a little sloppy (edited)

yea

The fake FG has some in-engine ghosting too

squanchy 🥗

You need to measure out the GPU clearance, not the overall dimensions of the case.

Fair enough, that is true. I know it's my fault, but ya could afford to be a bit less condescending.

4070 in ray tracing is about 40% better than 6800xt

Yep. My friend doesn’t even turn on half of the graphics in modern games so he thinks it’s all BS

yeah if you play fps games there is no point of graphics tbh

8:49 PM

i just put everything to low even with 4090

8:49 PM

if i have -_-

deadlybydsgn

The fake FG has some in-engine ghosting too

Turn off motion blur and chromatic aberration

He doesn’t. He just doesn’t turn stuff on kek

takanome9104

4070 in ray tracing is about 40% better than 6800xt

i'll ignore any single number for RT between brands

1

exio4

yes

It kinda looks like shit ngl

Egdarska

It kinda looks like shit ngl

metalfx's algo is "for" iphones, the better comparison would be xess dp4a

8:50 PM

dlss is MUCH more demanding on the neural network

Might just be that you had chromatic memeberration on

I don’t thunk chromatic aberration is its own setting

The exio defense I-it's supposed to be shit but efficient

Egdarska

The exio defense I-it's supposed to be shit but efficient

no, i wish they had cared more

8:52 PM

but even intel can't beat compute/bw constraints

8:53 PM

like, xess dp4a is for their IGPs

deadlybydsgn

I don’t thunk chromatic aberration is its own setting

I can't remember if it is, i might have disabled it in config file

Nuki

Fair enough, that is true. I know it's my fault, but ya could afford to be a bit less condescending.

IT MEANS NOTHING PE_PandaReeFill

(edited)

takanome9104

4070 in ray tracing is about 40% better than 6800xt

replying to the

- AMD gpus can range from "only half a tier worse performance" to "can't beat 5 year old gpus" performance in RT

hoppoh

but the key - that happens when you use more RT

yup for people like me who loves story games and graphics in general + emulation amd gpus kinda shit right now

takanome9104

4070 in ray tracing is about 40% better than 6800xt

Yes, and the 4070's ray tracing is about 5% better than the 7800 XT's, which is cheaper.

but for raster its really good value

Nvidia sold us an xx60 card as the 4070, which is why this is the case.

squanchy 🥗

Yes, and the 4070's ray tracing is about 5% better than the 7800 XT's, which is cheaper.

so true bestie

squanchy 🥗

Yes, and the 4070's ray tracing is about 5% better than the 7800 XT's, which is cheaper.

Weird, considering the 4070 beats the 7900xt in cyberpunk path tracing

8:58 PM

By about 30%

Don't make things gayer between us than needed @exio4 it's already pretty gay when we walk past each other at the hardware store.

that's ultra RT

8:58 PM

path tracing should be a bigger gap

Egdarska

Weird, considering the 4070 beats the 7900xt in cyberpunk path tracing

That's what skews it lol. CP77 = 30-50% win for Nvidia.

Oh yeah, it was ultra rt

3080 can beat 7900XTX

ah nevermind

squanchy 🥗

That's what skews it lol. CP77 = 30-50% win for Nvidia.

Yeah, using more rt makes it perform worse, that's the point

or the same

takanome9104

3080 can beat 7900XTX

in pure RT, XTX is around 2080 Ti or so performance

8:59 PM

7800 XT is 4% slower than the 4070 @ 1080p RT

8:59 PM

2% slower @ 1440p RT

exio4

in pure RT, XTX is around 2080 Ti or so performance

yeah we mean game right now using RT

Average lol

Steve from HUB purposefully tests "playable-ish" settings on those gpus

8:59 PM

for RT

Egdarska

Meanwhile i struggle to think of a legitimately good thing about modern amd gpus

not to mention I can buy a consumer GPU and have full professional compute support

this is like when amd claimed their card was amazing because it got like 30% better fps in a specific f1 game

he doesn't crank the RT slider to absurdity to measure the raw RT grunt of low end GPUs because he thinks it is irrelevant

This isn't because RDNA3 has the same RT perf of Lovelace. It's because every GPU from the 4080 Super down is actually a fake GPU name, moved one level higher to justify almost doubling the price.

amd's rocm is only supported on the company priced expensive cards, and it's still worse than cuda (edited)

i.e. the 4080 Super == really a 4070 Ti

9:00 PM

4070 Ti == 4060 Ti

squanchy 🥗

This isn't because RDNA3 has the same RT perf of Lovelace. It's because every GPU from the 4080 Super down is actually a fake GPU name, moved one level higher to justify almost doubling the price.

RDNA3 is worse than Turing, architecturally

4070 == 4060

squanchy 🥗

This isn't because RDNA3 has the same RT perf of Lovelace. It's because every GPU from the 4080 Super down is actually a fake GPU name, moved one level higher to justify almost doubling the price.

Lol, imagine how bad amd would look if they used the real gpus then

AMD is still catching to 2018 NVIDIA

It goes like that all the way down.

9:01 PM

The RTX 4060 is the successor to the RTX 3050

Since amd's flasgship gets beat by a mid range card

would have been hilarious

It's only with the 4080 that Nvidia start pulling ahead in terms of RT perf per dollar.

but nvidia made more money this way

Imagine nvidia announcing the ada titan

AMD actually have higher RT performance per dollar from the 4070 Super down (not sure about the 4070 Ti).

Egdarska

Imagine nvidia announcing the ada titan

600W monster, 15% more RT performance than the 4090

actually isn't intel battlemage due for this year

i thought they cancelled it

or delayed rather

LPhin

actually isn't intel battlemage due for this year

If MLID is to be believed, yes. praydge

exio4

600W monster, 15% more RT performance than the 4090

So it would double its advantage over the 7900xtx

@squanchy 🥗 i picked a an amd sponsored title

squanchy 🥗

AMD actually have higher RT performance per dollar from the 4070 Super down (not sure about the 4070 Ti).

per dollar while having 20fps

Avatar

really fun

Crapatar

alchemist was two years ago

so it's due for this year

4070 is almost 30% faster at 1080p (edited)

Also wait, doesn't the 7900 XTX cost almost the same as the 4070 Ti now?

depends on where you are

9:03 PM

nvidia is 2x amd here

for the things I do on my desktop GPU which are:

Cyberpunk
AI shit
compute

(edited)

LPhin

so it's due for this year

exio4

for the things I do on my desktop GPU which are:

Cyberpunk
AI shit
compute

(edited)

Specifically, the Johnny Silverdong joytoy mod.

the XTX is competing with the 4060 Ti

Just use the cpu at that point

i'm not kidding

9:04 PM

and even then, competing is a strong word

7900 XTX = £855 4070 Ti = £708

I'd need to migrate to Linux - and deal with ROCm

Tbh I'd pay more for the 24GB of VRAM.

9:04 PM

But I'd pay less due to the lack of DLSS.

you're paying more for an inferior product lol

Yeah on the Nvidia side.

24GB of VRAM only useful for game textures

Muh vram i can't use

fr

you can't use it for RT

exio4

24GB of VRAM only useful for game textures

i.e. the single most important aspect of image quality lol.

squanchy 🥗

i.e. the single most important aspect of image quality lol.

i didn't even mean gaming

Imagine all the ai shit you can do with 24GB

1

And also for RT, but 16GB should be enough until the next console cycle.

amd really needs a zen moment on the gpu side of things but how do they beat the sheer amount of money nvidia has been pumping into r&d

LPhin

amd really needs a zen moment on the gpu side of things but how do they beat the sheer amount of money nvidia has been pumping into r&d

they had a bulldozer moment

Egdarska

Imagine all the ai shit you can do with 24GB

if only it was usable on amd (edited)

i expect 5 years

9:05 PM

kinda hard at this point, i have more hope for intel rn (edited)

I could ray-trace each individual butt in my Steam games.

yea intel might be good soon

Nah

Rdna5 gonna be

I bet rdna7 is when NVIDIA gets worried

But by then nvidia will be like 3 gens ahead

Besides Alder Lake, Intel haven't realised a good CPU/GPU product since Sandy Bridge. (edited)

jensen is simply the better cousin apparently

Egdarska

Rdna5 gonna be

literally

i actually think intel's gpus are going in the right direction

1

__fastcall

jensen is simply the better cousin apparently

First cousins once removed or something idk.

squanchy 🥗

Besides Alder Lake, Intel haven't realised a good CPU/GPU product since Sandy Bridge. (edited)

AMD hasn't had a good GPU product in like 14 years

just severely held back by software

and yet here we are

He's her great-uncle-cousin or something idk?

exio4

AMD hasn't had a good GPU product in like 14 years

5700 XT aged like fine wine. aPES_Wine

Yeah, intel seems to actually be trying

Turned out to be faster than the RTX 2070 and 2070 Super despite being £100 less.

9:07 PM

Amd is like, given up

9:07 PM

Didn't even try to compete atthe high end, or even middle-high

squanchy 🥗

He's her great-uncle-cousin or something idk?

he's the cousin all the parents compare to

squanchy 🥗

Turned out to be faster than the RTX 2070 and 2070 Super despite being £100 less.

it also doesn't have DLSS, encoders that get outperformed by maxwell GPUs

amd atm feels like they're directing most of their r&d budget towards their CPUs

5700 XT "may have made sense", back then

9:08 PM

but it stagnated

9:08 PM

turing cards have had a glow up with ai shit every 4-5 months for like 4 years straight

Lol i hadn't even thought about how shit amd's encoder was before it got "usable"

Except they ended up being useless for almost everything.

9:08 PM

Useless for RT, definitely.

9:09 PM

Doesn't support frame gen, another artificial cap.

it isn't artificial

They somehow have to rely on AMD's frame gen tech.

squanchy 🥗

Doesn't support frame gen, another artificial cap.

Artificial how?

Which magically works without whatever hardware Nvidia engineered DLSS frame gen to require.

And it's inferior

9:09 PM

Fsr2 works on any gpu too

Would it be inferior if Nvidia's engineers worked on it?

Probably considering how incompetent amd's are

Nvidia code their software features to require specific hardware only found in newer GPUs.

But the point is it requires hardware acceleration to be that good

We know DLSS doesn't need tensor cores. Nvidia had a CUDA variant in Control.

squanchy 🥗

Would it be inferior if Nvidia's engineers worked on it?

yes

9:10 PM

you can see proof of this with XeSS

squanchy 🥗

Nvidia code their software features to require specific hardware only found in newer GPUs.

That's how hardware acceleration works, yes

Ok I'm going to lab Kazuya for three hours.

It needs hardware

XeSS DP4a uses a much simpler machine learning model

9:11 PM

XeSS XMX - when Intel engineers got to work, actually competes with DLSS

XeSS XMX looks better iirc

9:11 PM

though barely anyone actually has an intel gpu to use it with xd

yes

squanchy 🥗

We know DLSS doesn't need tensor cores. Nvidia had a CUDA variant in Control.

it was bad

9:13 PM

also, WE KNOW DLSS NEEDS IT

exio4

it was bad

Ne it looked WAY better than DLSS1

9:13 PM

Like 10x better

yes, dlss1 was bad

But DLSS1 needed Nvidia GPUs.

DLSS1 was a spatial upscaler

They had CUDA DLSS in their locker but didn't want it to gain popularity.

it seemed a cool idea back in 2013-2014

squanchy 🥗

They had CUDA DLSS in their locker but didn't want it to gain popularity.

???

Um

9:13 PM

Control

It was shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOW9D_dOkPc&t=240s

RandomGaminginHD

Gaming With The New Nvidia T400 - An Entry Level RTX Pro GPU

Had DLSS "1.9" which used FP32 cores.

9:14 PM

And it looked like FSR1 lol.

Did you actually use it?

I've seen videos of it.

Yes, it was shit

Control 1.9 was basically a tech demo

9:14 PM

from NVIDIA

Which is why dlss2 is a thing

It was way better than DLSS1, which was a train wreck.

err, DLSS 1.9**

Control is a tech demo lol.

9:14 PM

The game itself

Wut

9:14 PM

Every game is s tech demo now

9:15 PM

DLSS 1.9 was a tech demo in the most literal sense of the world

ignore western tech demos, return to fromsoft

it was a one-off project to see if the approach was viable

but yeah even i'm at a point where RT is starting to show up often enough that i'm genuinely considering nvidia or intel, despite all my PCs up until now having been AMD

9:17 PM

like unless AMD's RT perf really steps up nextgen, i'm probably moving to team blue or green

LPhin

like unless AMD's RT perf really steps up nextgen, i'm probably moving to team blue or green

Got news bud

LPhin

but yeah even i'm at a point where RT is starting to show up often enough that i'm genuinely considering nvidia or intel, despite all my PCs up until now having been AMD

You'd consider Intel despite their now fourth failed attempt at GPUs over the last 25 years?

On the other hand, buying intel is at least a safer bet

hey now alchemist isn't that bad

9:18 PM

i have some faith that battlemage can be decent

Amd has shown they don't care about having something decent, intel is at least trying

9:18 PM

But I'd just buy a gpu that works now

squanchy 🥗

You'd consider Intel despite their now fourth failed attempt at GPUs over the last 25 years?

Intel nailed everything around a GPU

9:18 PM

the encoders from Intel are ahead of RDNA7

Just a reminder, this is what Intel were promising OEMs in 2021:

9:19 PM

What they delivered: 6500 XT performance.

their gpus were a tier below AMD in raster but a tier above in RT, iirc (edited)

Lol, 6800xt on the 3080 tier

it also shows the RX 6600 XT competing on the 3060 Ti

Yes but so weak overall that RT would never make sense.

squanchy 🥗

Just a reminder, this is what Intel were promising OEMs in 2021:

The issue is that Intel gpus are better to encoding and compute workloads, they haven't delivered on gaming

when we all know it's more of a 3050 competitor lol

9:20 PM

nobody should a 6600 XT if the 3060 is available, or 3060 Ti

6600 XT is what, 50% faster than the 3050?

at the same price

On linux rdna gpus are plague by ring timeout issues

Damn.

squanchy 🥗

Just a reminder, this is what Intel were promising OEMs in 2021:

So technically within the bounding box

yes, exactly

Yes we all remember the 3050 being more expensive than the 6600 XT despite being much slower.

9:20 PM

That's Just Nvidia Things™️.

at the time when i bought my 6700xt though RT wasn't exactly prevalent

9:20 PM

now it's a purchase consideration

9:20 PM

as well as good upscaling

The 6700 XT turned out to be a MUCH better buy than the 3070 @LPhin

I personally wanted good ompute stack

squanchy 🥗

The 6700 XT turned out to be a MUCH better buy than the 3070 @LPhin

Ampere was one of the worst GPU generations NVIDIA ever made

The 3070 8GB aged like rancid vomit, same as the 3080 10GB.

9:21 PM

No that was Turing.

all of the GPUs from that generation will age like shit

oh i'm still fine with my 6700xt, don't get me wrong

squanchy 🥗

The 6700 XT turned out to be a MUCH better buy than the 3070 @LPhin

Im suffering

Ampere had a huge performance increase if you compared $700 vs $700 GPUs.

squanchy 🥗

The 3070 8GB aged like rancid vomit, same as the 3080 10GB.

Im suffering 2x

For example

squanchy 🥗

Ampere had a huge performance increase if you compared $700 vs $700 GPUs.

"performance increase"

i'm just saying for upgrades down the line i'm gonna consider blue or green more because of the better RT

It's just the 3090 was an insult.

my honest reaction when the first generation product does not compare to products that have had decades of hard work put into them

and better upscaling

$1500 when it should've been $1200 at most.

because fsr2 is just the worst upscaler atm

LPhin

because fsr2 is just the worst upscaler atm

Fsr1 exists

*temporal

9:22 PM

scuse me

LPhin

because fsr2 is just the worst upscaler atm

it's the worst? that's funny cuz it's still pretty good overall

The only thing worse than an amd solution is another amd solution lol

i'm not saying it's bad

9:23 PM

it's usable

9:23 PM

but the other options are better

true.

It's good if you have nothing else

9:23 PM

It's marginally better than ue4's native upscaling

9:23 PM

Not better than ue5's though

and worse than ue5's TSR

9:23 PM

ye

Though you can force ue5's upscaling in ue4

i forget, wasn't TSR technically backported or something of the like to UE4.26 or somewhere about there?

LukeTheVideoGamer

my honest reaction when the first generation product does not compare to products that have had decades of hard work put into them

This is Intel's fourth attempt at GPUs. #1: Intel740 (1998, Intel's first dGPU) #2: Larrabee (scheduled for 2010 but never made it to release, Intel spent tens of billions on it. ) #3: Intel Iris Xe Max (2020, basically a mobile SoC with the CPU cores disabled, stuck to a PCIe PCB) #4: Intel Arc (2022, the current-gen)

only on later versions iirc

squanchy 🥗

This is Intel's fourth attempt at GPUs. #1: Intel740 (1998, Intel's first dGPU) #2: Larrabee (scheduled for 2010 but never made it to release, Intel spent tens of billions on it. ) #3: Intel Iris Xe Max (2020, basically a mobile SoC with the CPU cores disabled, stuck to a PCIe PCB) #4: Intel Arc (2022, the current-gen)

we're on like the fifth attempt of AMD to make encoders

squanchy 🥗

This is Intel's fourth attempt at GPUs. #1: Intel740 (1998, Intel's first dGPU) #2: Larrabee (scheduled for 2010 but never made it to release, Intel spent tens of billions on it. ) #3: Intel Iris Xe Max (2020, basically a mobile SoC with the CPU cores disabled, stuck to a PCIe PCB) #4: Intel Arc (2022, the current-gen)

and? it's still, by all counts, a first generation product, even if it was their fourth overall attempt

and they still haven't figured it out

Go to your room @exio4

nah let him cook

At this rate we'll be waiting for some ARM-based GPU.

imagination still exists

9:26 PM

they still make gpus

How much die space would 10,000 Mali cores need? (edited)

i don't understand bein a hater when something does actually show promise

i haven't seen a powerVR gpu in anything for years but they're still making new GPU designs apparently

LukeTheVideoGamer

i don't understand bein a hater when something does actually show promise

@squanchy 🥗 is an amd fanboy, when your company is doing worse than Apple at GPU core design, that's when you know you need to hit for the copium

9:26 PM

Please, I'm a loyal Nvidia customer like the rest of the sheep in here.

9:26 PM

I have a 4070, bought at launch.

exio4

@squanchy 🥗 is an amd fanboy, when your company is doing worse than Apple at GPU core design, that's when you know you need to hit for the copium

just enjoy products for what they are, what they could be, and not for the company that slaps their name all over it

It's going to be hilarious when the first export chinese gpu comes out and it has better encoders than amd (edited)

squanchy 🥗

How much die space would 10,000 Mali cores need? (edited)

That would not do anything

In datacenter, Nvidia are kind of screwed right now.

idgaf about nvidia or amd or intel, as long as the stuff they make is actually good individually, i would pick one of those options

Could maybe beat out a ti 84

MI300 is gaining huge traction, is cheaper, more powerful, and has actual availability.

LukeTheVideoGamer

idgaf about nvidia or amd or intel, as long as the stuff they make is actually good individually, i would pick one of those options

this

9:28 PM

i've been buying AMD over the last couple gens because they've just been the better price/perf for my usecase

LukeTheVideoGamer

idgaf about nvidia or amd or intel, as long as the stuff they make is actually good individually, i would pick one of those options

Yeah that's why i buy nvidia

No lol, the last thing we need is for Intel to be successful at something again. I guess you people don't remember us paying $350 for 4C/8T every year from 2010-2017.

but now my usecase is changing so i'm gonna buy intel or nvidia :P

Like it or not it's the only company making fully usable gpus

9:29 PM

I've been waiting for amd to make something competent for a while (edited)

if intel is still doing the undercut to sell more units strat with battlemage, there's a good chance they're gonna end up with good price/perf

squanchy 🥗

No lol, the last thing we need is for Intel to be successful at something again. I guess you people don't remember us paying $350 for 4C/8T every year from 2010-2017.

that problem wasn't because they were successful, that problem was born from being the only decent option, the moment Ryzen and Apple Silicon started making headway for PC and Macs respectively they started getting serious bout this shit

Egdarska

I've been waiting for amd to make something competent for a while (edited)

it's weird because they're competent on the CPU side of things

LukeTheVideoGamer

that problem wasn't because they were successful, that problem was born from being the only decent option, the moment Ryzen and Apple Silicon started making headway for PC and Macs respectively they started getting serious bout this shit

No, that was because Intel bribed OEMs to not carry AMD systems, and rigged industry benchmarks to make AMD's CPUs look worse than they actually were.

AMD is still the only good laptop option rn, ignoring ARM

Alder Lake was extremely well designed and produced, and we couldn't have gotten it from a 2014 Intel, during AMD's pitiful FX and A-series years

I understand you might not have been alive in 2010, so you won't remember.

squanchy 🥗

No, that was because Intel bribed OEMs to not carry AMD systems, and rigged industry benchmarks to make AMD's CPUs look worse than they actually were.

The FX cpus were horrible lmao

Like

9:31 PM

How can people not know this shit?

can confirm, i owned an FX

squanchy 🥗

No, that was because Intel bribed OEMs to not carry AMD systems, and rigged industry benchmarks to make AMD's CPUs look worse than they actually were.

Amd's performance did allthe talking

I guess Intel have been the uncool company for so long

squanchy 🥗

No lol, the last thing we need is for Intel to be successful at something again. I guess you people don't remember us paying $350 for 4C/8T every year from 2010-2017.

I don't want to buy NVIDIA

i literally use an FX-6300 in my home computer, everyone went Intel not because Intel was good, they went Intel because AMD was bad

I had a FM2+ APU that I got rid off for an used sandy bridge

Yesh, i only jad a 6300 because it was cheap

https://money.cnn.com/blogs/legalpad/2007/02/suit-intel-paid-dell-up-to-1-billion_15.html

9:31 PM

Ayo

9:31 PM

This is how Intel starvged AMD of revenue.

that cpu was from 2016 and performed worse than a intel CPU from 2011

They paid Dell $1bn a year as of 2007 to not carry AMD systems.

yes intel did do scummy things, but FX was also actually just shit

So no shit AMD couldn't invest in CPU design.

squanchy 🥗

https://money.cnn.com/blogs/legalpad/2007/02/suit-intel-paid-dell-up-to-1-billion_15.html

We're not denying intel did shady shit, we're saying amd's cpus were shit

Go to Exio's room

9:32 PM

I'm locking you both in there.

dawg stfu it's like five to one atp

lol

give up or die on this hill it's ur call

anyways AMD on the CPU side of thing is still generally competent

Or I can just keep pointing out when you're dumb @LukeTheVideoGamer

LPhin

anyways AMD on the CPU side of thing is still generally competent

not the firmware side

9:33 PM

AM5 has a sleep bug right now

i'm just confused that they can't extend this competency to the GPU side of things

Memory training moment

exio4

AM5 has a sleep bug right now

Sleep bug?

the AGESA is still half-baked

Imagine calling Arc Intel's "first-generation GPU" when it was literally preceded by DG1 which was intended to be sold as a dGPU but got canned due to shitty performance + drivers. (edited)

idgad about the companies, they're all awful in one way or another. but if a product one of these companies makes is well designed, has great performance, and is excellent value, no shit im gonna get that product regardless if it was made by Nvidia, or Intel, or fucking Qualcomm

Amd is on the third rdna and they still have broken encoders lol

like 9/10 times i would probably prefer an AMD laptop over an intel laptop right now

In fact they broke them more than they were

whas DG1 even remotely close to the same architecture as ARC?

LotP

whas DG1 even remotely close to the same architecture as ARC?

Ye, it's Xe.

me when brand names

It's physically the same as the iGPUs.

it's the same architecture family

LPhin

like 9/10 times i would probably prefer an AMD laptop over an intel laptop right now

What if they were the same price? AMD laptops are usually much cheaper.

9:35 PM

Intel laptops go up to ridiculous MacBook tier pricing.

that comparison assumes same price

I think @squanchy 🥗 misunderstands Intel being incompetent with AMD being good

AMD's seem to stop at around £1500-2000.

If yo just want amd's crappy igpu yes

Unfortunately Dell and HP both still gimp their AMD lineup to keep Intel happy.

Intel cores have been a dumpster fire lately, and they had to basically reinvent the company in 5 years

Only Lenovo, out of the big three, do premium AMD laptops.

squanchy 🥗

Unfortunately Dell and HP both still gimp their AMD lineup to keep Intel happy.

no

9:36 PM

it's supply issues

Supply issues for the APUs?

OEMs have all gotten tired of AMD saying we have 30 million socs ready

9:36 PM

and then when time comes

I'm not talking about dGPUs.

it's like oops

squanchy 🥗

Supply issues for the APUs?

Yes?

clearly intel is doing something right on the hardware side since they've been getting performance improvements driver after driver, something you NEVER see out of AMD or Nvidia, since, save for AMD's troubled history with driver bugs, their driver game generally lets their hardware stretch their legs from the very getgo. it sucks ARC launched in such a bad state, but it's gotten better, and if Intel decides to stick with it beyond Battlemage, it'll quickly become an actual contender next to GeForce and Radeon

that

9:37 PM

that's why i have hope for battlemage

LukeTheVideoGamer

clearly intel is doing something right on the hardware side since they've been getting performance improvements driver after driver, something you NEVER see out of AMD or Nvidia, since, save for AMD's troubled history with driver bugs, their driver game generally lets their hardware stretch their legs from the very getgo. it sucks ARC launched in such a bad state, but it's gotten better, and if Intel decides to stick with it beyond Battlemage, it'll quickly become an actual contender next to GeForce and Radeon

intel's first gen is a write-off

9:37 PM

the architecture is broken

9:37 PM

but the key here: it has the building blocks

9:37 PM

AMD is lacking it

didn't nvidia buy off the smart guy on intel's team

alchemist seems to generally be not bad, but the software has issues

Doesn't help that amd is in denial

1

9:37 PM

They're still banking on rt being a fad

they have no choice but to accept that RT is here to stay now

__fastcall

didn't nvidia buy off the smart guy on intel's team

What about Tom Petersen?

9:38 PM

squanchy 🥗

What about Tom Petersen?

true

LPhin

they have no choice but to accept that RT is here to stay now

RDNA3 did increase RT perf. It's just Nvidia increased it much more.

9:38 PM

Also, RT Psycho and Path Tracing exist to help those benches.

Egdarska

They're still banking on rt being a fad

it's actually joever for them

squanchy 🥗

Also, RT Psycho and Path Tracing exist to help those benches.

Lel

Scenes when someone on less than a 4090 tries to enable PT in CP77.

i'd imagine RDNA4 would be focused around improving RT perf further, though they're still playing catchup

"Oh yes I play at 1080p on my £1200 GPU, don't you???"

intel is much closer to nvidia on that front

Reminds me of intel claiming blender isn't a good benchmark

9:39 PM

Just don't use high settings and amd is fine bro

It isn't...for gaming.

oh god, don't start the rt/pt debate again...

It's the same as with RT.

9:39 PM

People who bought a 2080 Ti in 2020 found, last year, that their GPUs were now obsoluete for RT.

squanchy 🥗

RDNA3 did increase RT perf. It's just Nvidia increased it much more.

it didn't

i was on the "RT is a fad and it'll never be good" side until last year

LPhin

i'd imagine RDNA4 would be focused around improving RT perf further, though they're still playing catchup

It's not catchup at this point, that implies a chance of catching up

squanchy 🥗

People who bought a 2080 Ti in 2020 found, last year, that their GPUs were now obsoluete for RT.

And amd is obsolete if you bought one now

9:40 PM

I don't see what that point even is

LPhin

i was on the "RT is a fad and it'll never be good" side until last year

for me, it was until about 2021 where i went "oh, this RT thing could actually be good long term"

RT is a fad tbh

For me it was the moment i saw caustics

stuff like cyberpunk PT and alan wake 2 sold me on the high end possibilities

9:41 PM

but

9:42 PM

it was DF's video on UE5 games that really sold me on it

it doesn't matter to me today, I'd gladly get even a 7800XT if i could, but someday it will matter, and if AMD doesn't do anything about it they risk giving up their position to Intel of all people

7800 XT?

9:42 PM

why would you buy RDNA3?

rt is not a fad it's a technology with uses, just like raster and other render methods

See there, 7900 XTX is much faster in CP77 RT than the 6900 XT (both $1000 MSRP) Something like 30% faster It's just, the 4090 is about 90% faster with RT vs the 3090.

exio4

why would you buy RDNA3?

because clearly Ada isn't gonna be good under $600 so why bother with that

Red = RT, no upscaling Green = RT + upscaling Blue = native (edited)

particularly jusant and talos principle 2 those two really opened my eyes to the potential of RT lighting, even in indie games

it's almost as if RT apologists were not in denial for years, and there was a reason to be excited

Nah it's 2024 and besides CP77, who 90% of people played and enjoyed without RT, there isn't really a killer app for RT.

i always had the opinion that if there was a good example then i'd be convinced

9:44 PM

now there are a good few

Control, alan wake2

The only ones I can think of are, ironically, the console Spider-Man games on PS5 and later PC.

9:44 PM

No RT would make the game look much worse.

hell, even persona 3 reload used RT reflections in a tasteful way

LPhin

i always had the opinion that if there was a good example then i'd be convinced

the key is that asking for "examples of what RT could" was already a shit take most of us had if we're honest

Using SSR for all the glass wouldn't be practical.

Also low key resident evil village, rtgi adds so much to the ambiance

it's like saying "IDK fam those shadows?? these are a gimmick, back in my day games had no shadows" kind of dumb take

@LPhin you didn't miss out. RTX 20 (Turing) aged awfully with RT as expected. All RTX 30 series with 10GB or less also aged terribly.

the main thing for me is RTGI and RT reflections

RTX 20-series was honestly a failure because it took until months after the lineup launched for games with actual RT implementations to become available, and Nvidia was banking so hard on RT being the future that early that they literally rebranded it from GTX to RTX. now that there are cards that can do it great, and games that have good implementations of the tech, RT could genuinely become a mainstay.

RT shadows i don't really give a shit about

The 3080 10GB for example is a disaster if you enable RT @ 4K and don't have DLSS/FSR available.

RTX 20 series was an architecturally giant leap

current shadowing techniques are good enough imo

AMD hasn't had a Turing moment in 14 years

It was the same raster price/perf as Pascal @exio4

exio4

it's like saying "IDK fam those shadows?? these are a gimmick, back in my day games had no shadows" kind of dumb take

shadows are a social construct made by the patriarchy

squanchy 🥗

It was the same raster price/perf as Pascal @exio4

it wasn't

exio4

it's like saying "IDK fam those shadows?? these are a gimmick, back in my day games had no shadows" kind of dumb take

same vibe as "generic skybox reflections work fine, why do we need real time accurate reflections" lol

The 2080 was about 10% faster than the 1080 Ti in raster, for 15% more money - or something like that.

exio4

RTX 20 series was an architecturally giant leap

"architecture" this, "video encoders" that, that doesn't fucking matter if the promise they were selling people on wasn't gonna be a thing until 4 years and two generations AFTER

Those are features m8

RT reflections in games like doom and control almost convinced me but the performance cost made me not give a single shit

Hiw do they not matter?

2080 ti outperforms the XTX in blender (edited)

If you need to encode video on gpu the encoders matter

in 2024

9:47 PM

sometimes the XTX wins tho

LotP

same vibe as "generic skybox reflections work fine, why do we need real time accurate reflections" lol

Note that there isn't anybody who can actually notice the difference between SSR and RT reflections during gameplay except those who are trying to justify buying an RTX GPU.

again, until fairly recently, where people have shown they can make those effects run good

the architecture was a massive leap from anything prior to it (edited)

9:47 PM

FP16? INT8?

squanchy 🥗

Note that there isn't anybody who can actually notice the difference between SSR and RT reflections during gameplay except those who are trying to justify buying an RTX GPU.

oh boy, that's a take

2060 super has more tensor throughput than the XTX has normal throughput

As for architecture, try a modern game like alan wake 2 on a pascal card then try it on turing and see if it doesn't matter (edited)

1

You know what nobody said before the RTX 20 series? "Oh man I wish I could run my game at half the fps in exchange for more realistic puddles and mirrors."

exio4

2060 super has more tensor throughput than the XTX has normal throughput

this isn't a joke btw

squanchy 🥗

Note that there isn't anybody who can actually notice the difference between SSR and RT reflections during gameplay except those who are trying to justify buying an RTX GPU.

i notice it's pretty hard not to notice

9:48 PM

SSR artifacts are probably one of the most noticeable screenspace artifacting you can have

LPhin

i notice it's pretty hard not to notice

You're noticing because devs aren't bothering with high-quality SSR anymore.

squanchy 🥗

Note that there isn't anybody who can actually notice the difference between SSR and RT reflections during gameplay except those who are trying to justify buying an RTX GPU.

What

squanchy 🥗

You're noticing because devs aren't bothering with high-quality SSR anymore.

????

9:48 PM

SSR is inherently limited to SCREEN SPACE

Yes

squanchy 🥗

Note that there isn't anybody who can actually notice the difference between SSR and RT reflections during gameplay except those who are trying to justify buying an RTX GPU.

tfw when looking at a puddle doesn't reflect the building on the other side of the road "it's accurate enough"

1

squanchy 🥗

You're noticing because devs aren't bothering with high-quality SSR anymore.

You can't work around ssr limitations

Ok, now who, in the history of gaming, looked at a puddle in-game and said, "I don't see my character there. Immersion broken". (edited)

Egdarska

You can't work around ssr limitations

planar reflections should make a come back just so @squanchy 🥗 says "RT reflections are soo efficient"

I'm ok with using ssr, but that's stupid

the only time when SSR looks good is when the game's artstyle is designed around the limitations of SSR in the first place

1

you need fixed/controlled camera controls too

LPhin

the only time when SSR looks good is when the game's artstyle is designed around the limitations of SSR in the first place

Static camera sidescrolling games

yes

9:49 PM

unironically

Egdarska

Static camera sidescrolling games

p3re uses it pretty tastefully

9:50 PM

i like it there

squanchy 🥗

Ok, now who, in the history of gaming, looked at a puddle in-game and said, "I don't see my character there. Immersion broken". (edited)

who said character? character reflections is a whole nother beast because of how character models often aren't rendered during gameplay at all

Egdarska

As for architecture, try a modern game like alan wake 2 on a pascal card then try it on turing and see if it doesn't matter (edited)

okay, that does make sense, but honestly, i could care less about how good Turing was compared to Pascal and Maxwell 2 when the actual products the architecture shipped in was sold under the promise of a feature that wasn't available at launch unlike Mesh Shading and great FP16 and video encode/decode performance, and for higher than their equivalent Pascal products.

9:50 PM

RTX 20-series was a failure, even if the actual hardware was great.

20-series was so much of a failure that AMD hasn't caught up to it

Any series which has the same price-perf as the previous series is automatically a failure.

i agree on that though

9:50 PM

i buy on the now, not on the future (edited)

Turing H265 outperforms RDNA3 AV1

squanchy 🥗

Any series which has the same price-perf as the previous series is automatically a failure.

agreed

RDNA3 AV1 is also broken

9:51 PM

1082p

9:51 PM

forever broken

exio4

20-series was so much of a failure that AMD hasn't caught up to it

Given how much Turing struggles with modern titles when you enable RT, nah.

9:51 PM

But yes there are still people who cling onto their RTX 2060s, because Nvidia told them it'd be future-proof for ray tracing.

20 series can DLSS to this day

at the time turing launched it barely performed better than pascal but now, when games can actually leverage the things turing is capable of, it can do better

somebody on a 2060 can play at 1440p + DLSS and get better anti-aliasing than the XTX can

9:52 PM

it needed fine-wine yes

That doesn't make sense, because the XTX is multiples faster.

squanchy 🥗

That doesn't make sense, because the XTX is multiples faster.

that's the joke.

See, this is exactly what I mean.

9:52 PM

People still defend an obsolete 6GB card because of the Nvidia logo.

AMD is losing a game that could be rigged in their favor

squanchy 🥗

People still defend an obsolete 6GB card because of the Nvidia logo.

no, the 2060 is a shit card

9:53 PM

2070 / 2060 super are the lowest-end rtx cards i even care about

So were all RTX 20 GPUs @exio4 except the 2080 Ti.

8gb of vram

Its 11GB of RAM meant it aged better at higher resolutions, especially with RT enabled.

but, 2080 Ti to THIS DAY has more actual pure RT grunt than the XTX

squanchy 🥗

So were all RTX 20 GPUs @exio4 except the 2080 Ti.

(even then the 2080 Ti was like $400 more expensive than the 1080 Ti for like 30% raster improvement, if that)

Blonder

9:54 PM

if you do 3D rendering, AMD hasn't caught up to Turing

9:54 PM

9:55 PM

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-2080-ti.c3305

9:55 PM

2018, 5-6 years

9:55 PM

RDNA4 is supposedly iterative

AMD isn't that great in productivity because so much relies on NVIDIA focused technologies: CUDA, OptiX; as well as things that are historically better on Nvidia than on AMD, like NVENC/NVDEC

so we're waiting for RDNA5 to be the final card that can, yes, in funny benchmarks, outperform the 2080 Ti decisively

Bruh i forgot turing was that old

9:56 PM

I keep thinking it's like 2021 or something because of how it hangs out with current amd cards

Hangs out in what?

LukeTheVideoGamer

AMD isn't that great in productivity because so much relies on NVIDIA focused technologies: CUDA, OptiX; as well as things that are historically better on Nvidia than on AMD, like NVENC/NVDEC

the ecosystem "uses NVIDIA" because it's stupid to not do so

RDNA2 was much faster than Turing for gaming, let alone RDNA3.

NVIDIA has spent a fuckton of money in their compute stack

squanchy 🥗

Hangs out in what?

General use

They've spent a fuckton developing middleware which requires their latest-gen GPUs, and have made it easy for devs to adopt that middleware (eventually).

I need to use compute and path tracing

squanchy 🥗

They've spent a fuckton developing middleware which requires their latest-gen GPUs, and have made it easy for devs to adopt that middleware (eventually).

No, cuda works on old cards

Until the advent of the UE4 plugin, DLSS was a nightmare for devs.

9:58 PM

You had to share source with Nvidia lol.

NVIDIA just goes Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger™️ than any competitor, it's like being angry that your MIPS router can't run programs

You will get a better experience in blender with an old ass pascal card than you will with s 7900xtx

Meanwhile you had no idea how the DLSS libraries actually worked. Black box. You had to rely on Nvidia to help you optimise.

Optix yo

squanchy 🥗

They've spent a fuckton developing middleware which requires their latest-gen GPUs, and have made it easy for devs to adopt that middleware (eventually).

which features?

9:59 PM

I am on a Turing GPU - all the features the hardware support... just work, even with modern stack, I can use Stable Diffusion optimizations as long as I stay within the supported types of my tensor cores

9:59 PM

Ampere added BF16

9:59 PM

so that is just, .. the hardware lacks that type, I need to use FP16

squanchy 🥗

Meanwhile you had no idea how the DLSS libraries actually worked. Black box. You had to rely on Nvidia to help you optimise.

this is less a problem then you think, hardware vendors frequently do this, not just for dlss but optimizating games in general

which, FWIW, on Turing goes hard, 2060 outperforms the 1080 Ti in that regard, it's a major architectural leap; and if you can afford inferencing with smaller types.... with Tensor you get a boost where 2080 Ti outperforms the XTX in pure funny level compute

Also amd always had their own middleware solutions

10:01 PM

They were uh

10:01 PM

There

if you have a use or a need for something that the competition cannot do, then A: Good for you! keep on trucking with those products, and B: that's not good, since that means that an effective monopoly is being created!

So the competition should stop sleeping and compete

everybody here wants AMD to compete

10:03 PM

the problem is that they don't

I'm tired of amd fanboys playing victim

AMD here is not even trying to play catch-up

10:03 PM

they don't seem to care?

Like i eaid I've been waiting for amd to make a gpu worth buying for a while (edited)

like, regarding Tensor™️ - AMD has designed units for that, on a hardware level

10:03 PM

CDNA does have these

10:04 PM

but AMD doesn't ship mini versions of it on client

10:04 PM

RDNA more lika MIA

and like, regardless of even that, brand loyalty is just plain stupid, and these are gaming brands as well, so half the people buying a Radeon or a GeForce aren't buying it because of muh Stable Diffusion or whatever the fuck, they're buying it to play Palworld or Starfield. I also want AMD (and with Intel in the game again, them too) to get off their asses and make a product that can do productivity good too, regardless of OptiX or NVENC's traditional stranglehold on 3D rendering and video production, and personally i think both "these are gaming cards that are branded towards playing video games and not doing AI workloads" and "companies other than Nvidia needs to up their productivity performance game if they wanna truly compete" can be true statements

10:06 PM

overall, this shit wacky, buy what works for you in the present for your needs, regardless of the brand. if that happens to be an RTX 2080 Ti or an ARC A770, go for it!

yeah

10:08 PM

I don't mind AMD gpus if they were priced based off where they belong

10:08 PM

7800 XT is a 4060 competitor, for example

10:08 PM

The 4060 is a xx50 successor.

that's the joke @squanchy 🥗

The 7800 XT is probably too cheap, but they have to make up for their lack of mindshare.

7800 XT "too cheap"

16GB GPU which will run rings around the 4070 in a year's time lol.

it's like 3% better perf/$ than a 4070 Super

10:09 PM

lol

for me, my needs are "i want something that can give me good performance in the games i currently play, and perhaps do a little bit of light screen recording and local video playback too, nothing too serious", and for what it's worth, anything from an RX 6600 up to the 7800 XT would work just fine for me.

The 4070 12GB will be the new 3080 10GB.

10:09 PM

"Just run your games at 1080p bro"

LukeTheVideoGamer

for me, my needs are "i want something that can give me good performance in the games i currently play, and perhaps do a little bit of light screen recording and local video playback too, nothing too serious", and for what it's worth, anything from an RX 6600 up to the 7800 XT would work just fine for me.

screen recording is "advanced shit"

10:09 PM

nvidia is right there for you, with working encoders

Nvidia's overlay is actually the worst in industry.

AMD, on the other hand, can't record 1080p

10:10 PM

so, like. Isaid

personally as long as i can make out the three blocks that represent an enemy in my recording, it's good enough for me :)

that's the thing

10:10 PM

1920x1080 is not possible on AMD (with AV1) (edited)

ok

their hardware block is broken, it does 1920x1082

10:11 PM

the joke is that it is so broken you actually can't do 1080p streams

it's not like i even do it that often anyway, i just record clips of some neat kills in fortnite

also

im not a 3D modeller, im not a video editor, im not a professional, i just want to play video games and god dammit Radeon can do that good enough for my tastes!

2080 Ti has more INT8 throughput than the XTX

10:12 PM

in fact, the 2060 Super has more INT8 throughput than the XTX

what the fuck even is "INT8" you AI geek

LukeTheVideoGamer

what the fuck even is "INT8" you AI geek

when you do AI, you can decide to lower the quality of the model for speed, memory savings, optimization (this only gets 2% worse per layer, but we can fit twice as many so it is overall better), etc

10:13 PM

the funny? this is why NPUs are viable

i don't model, i don't use AI (i actually really fucking hate generative AI like stable diffusion so I'd never get a GeForce just for that), i just play video games.

because they just spam INT cores, for very cheap, which means even things like blurring a background, etc are just better

LukeTheVideoGamer

i don't model, i don't use AI (i actually really fucking hate generative AI like stable diffusion so I'd never get a GeForce just for that), i just play video games.

do you own any modern apple device

the newest one i have is an iPhone from 2016

alright, you should still have some AI on it, but not sure which

10:15 PM

https://developer.apple.com/machine-learning/api/

10:15 PM

not accelerated tho

im aware of how useful AI can be, i use the goddamn "AI phone" for fucks sake i use a Pixel 8! but i don't like generative AI, and i sure as hell don't use it on my desktop

AI phones are the iphones

10:15 PM

Google is incompetent at making products, their R&D is gud tho

i dunno, im liking my Pixel 8 well enough as a product, regardless of the AI crap that i don't like, they're easy enough to avoid though

10:17 PM

but regardless, for what i do on my home computer, which is browse the internet, play games, and chat on Discord, and occasionally, if i feel like it, record a quick clip to send in a chat (if i really do feel like it), for my needs, even an RX 6600 will be good enough

just to say how Apple's phones got are the actual AI phones:

Apple Photos does the object segmentation on-device/on-edge, allowing for E2EE backups!
OCR so good a meme page site uses iPhones as a funny backend - https://findthatmeme.com/blog/2023/01/08/image-stacks-and-iphone-racks-building-an-internet-scale-meme-search-engine-Qzrz7V6T.html
Background Blur/Voice Isolation/etc (RTX Broadcast's suite, basically, but on a phone and apple is doing it)
on-device select-subject

[...]

Image Stacks and iPhone Racks - Building an Internet Scale Meme Sea...

Anyone who’s spent any amount of time on the Internet has a good idea of how prevalent meme usage has become in online discourse. Finding new memes on the latest happening and sharing them with various friend groups to share in the humor is a long-enjoyed pastime of mine. Working in tech and in the InfoSec field has netted me an unsurprisingly “...

this isn't that hard to wrap ur head around i buy a product for what i know it can do for what I like to do, not for what i might occasionally every once in a while do that my phone can already do just fine enough

I have recommended the RX 6600 multiple times

10:19 PM

I can understand there are reasons to pick a Radeon card

10:19 PM

but some people like @squanchy 🥗 refuse to accept they're just a plain inferior product

and sure, RDNA3 sucks! it isn't that good compared to both their own previous products, as well as Nvidia's current architecture! but for what I MYSELF would like to do, they're serviceable enough, "inferiority to other products" aside

RDNA3 is awesome

10:20 PM

it is so bad it made me wish AMD fucking never launched it

10:20 PM

bulldozer 2.0

It's kind of impressive to make your new product an ad for the previous one

exactly that's why i tell people to buy Ampere instead of Ada

Ampere is worse than Ada

10:21 PM

Ampere has shit VRAM buffers

3% improvement in some games on RTX 4060 vs RTX 3060

LukeTheVideoGamer

exactly that's why i tell people to buy Ampere instead of Ada

?

exio4

it is so bad it made me wish AMD fucking never launched it

Bruh, imagine a world where the steam deck was put together later than it was and it's rdna3

RTX 4090 is being scalped to hell and back, RTX 4080 Super is still overpriced (all cards above $600 are imo), and really the only one with any actual future is the RTX 4070 Super, which will still be sunsetted earlier by consumers because it has 12GB of VRAM compared to the 16GB it should've had even before the Super launched.

a big reason the number is so low is that the 4060 was struggling for vram; if it doesn't, it is quite faster; 3060's 12G being a mood there 4060 Ti outperforms the 3070 at 1080p in anything demanding enough you care about GPU performance; and 4060 Ti 16G is bandwidth cringe but

10:24 PM

4060 Ti getting outperformed by the 3060 Ti is technically true, if you crank resolution

10:24 PM

but NVIDIA offers the magic trick called DLSS

Everyone knows you buy a 60 class gpu for 4k gaming

and it's a 60 series class

Egdarska

Everyone knows you buy a 60 class gpu for 4k gaming

I mean, even if you do

10:24 PM

DLSS Performance, at 4K

exio4

a big reason the number is so low is that the 4060 was struggling for vram; if it doesn't, it is quite faster; 3060's 12G being a mood there 4060 Ti outperforms the 3070 at 1080p in anything demanding enough you care about GPU performance; and 4060 Ti 16G is bandwidth cringe but

okay. RTX 4060 Ti 16GB vs RTX 3060 Ti 8GB. in games where 3060 Ti is starved for VRAM, the 4060 Ti clearly comes out on top. in all other scenarios however the 3060 Ti is like 5% better, if that.

is better than 1080p visuals

True

LukeTheVideoGamer

okay. RTX 4060 Ti 16GB vs RTX 3060 Ti 8GB. in games where 3060 Ti is starved for VRAM, the 4060 Ti clearly comes out on top. in all other scenarios however the 3060 Ti is like 5% better, if that.

it isn't

sorry, 5% worse, Freudian slip

get his ass squanchy

i can trivially find a 15%+ improvement over the 3060 Ti (edited)

10:25 PM

this is raster

10:26 PM

I can always be funny and bring raytracing benchmarks, of course

10:26 PM

where Ada is a massive leap

exio4

i can trivially find a 15%+ improvement over the 3060 Ti (edited)

ok what's the VRAM usage on the 8GB cards and what was the build of the game they were using

LukeTheVideoGamer

ok what's the VRAM usage on the 8GB cards and what was the build of the game they were using

https://www.techspot.com/review/2714-nvidia-rtx-4060-ti-16gb/

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 16GB Reviewed, Benchmarked

Despite our fondness for the GeForce RTX 4060 Ti, we can admit that just 8GB of VRAM is not enough for a $400 GPU in mid-2023. So...

10:26 PM

this is the latest build at the time of release of the gpu

because the 4060 Ti 8GB is MATCHING the 3060 Ti, and TLoUP1 on PC wasn't a very good PC port.

LukeTheVideoGamer

because the 4060 Ti 8GB is MATCHING the 3060 Ti, and TLoUP1 on PC wasn't a very good PC port.

yeah, almost as if you're getting where I am going with the image

10:27 PM

that the 4060 Ti doesn't really get worse than the 3060 Ti, uses half the power, etc, and the 16G model can offer (if you leverage the feature set™️) 3070+ performance

10:28 PM

4060 Ti for $429-449 where it was a few times is a fine card

10:28 PM

$499 is cringe cuz you're too close to better gpus there

10:28 PM

just spend more money

10:28 PM

lol

10:28 PM

nvidia moment

10:29 PM

11+ faster than the 3070 here

10:29 PM

11%*

10:29 PM

22% over the 3060 Ti

10:29 PM

funny numbers

it's a "better" card, but i am not going to sugarcoat it: it shouldn't have existed, not at $500 at launch, and not even at nearly $430 like it seems to stand at now. if it truly wants better price to performance compared to 3060 Ti, it needs to be lower still, and imo, the entire stack does too

LukeTheVideoGamer

it's a "better" card, but i am not going to sugarcoat it: it shouldn't have existed, not at $500 at launch, and not even at nearly $430 like it seems to stand at now. if it truly wants better price to performance compared to 3060 Ti, it needs to be lower still, and imo, the entire stack does too

?

10:30 PM

I'm not saying the cards are some massive leap in price to performance or whatever

exio4

11+ faster than the 3070 here

(the Extreme preset also enables RT and Ada is actually a significant improvement in that department compared to Ampere no matter the tier)

wait, they changed that?

10:30 PM

when did they do it

10:30 PM

Extreme didn't enable RT in game for me not long ago meow

10:31 PM

you had to manually enable it

at least, im pretty sure it does on RT capable cards

it enabled RT in forza vista

10:31 PM

not in-game

10:31 PM

for me

ah that mighta been it, my bad i'll admit that fault

the game didn't even launch with RT in-game

10:31 PM

i am curious now

10:32 PM

i'm not on the w*n pc rn

i just don't think the 40-series has very many actually good products, even if the silicon is great

the only card that has any woes is the 4060

but, that's more a problem with Nvidia overpricing and underdelivering than the actual products themselves, or Ada itself.

10:33 PM

i would rather go for a used 30-series card if i could at any price point under $600 though

3060 Ti => 4060 Ti 8/16G 3070 Ti => 4070 / 4070 Super (more VRAM than the 3080 10G, if you wanna vibe that way) 3090 performance => 4070 Super / 4070 Ti

LukeTheVideoGamer

i would rather go for a used 30-series card if i could at any price point under $600 though

that's just me tho!

and they did this with half the power consumption

10:34 PM

and working power management

10:35 PM

"NVIDIA can offer 3.5 times the performance per watt" should not be a statement that can be said in this day and age

10:35 PM

this is Bulldozer again

Turing was great but i think RTX 20-series was a failure. Ampere was technologically better but also worse in a multitude of areas compared to Turing, but RTX 30-series, once you got past the scalper bullshit, was honestly pretty great! 40-series, to me, is more along the lines of 20-series, if not as bad.

Pascal - Good Turing - Alright Ampere - Cringe Ada - Good

10:35 PM

my take

10:35 PM

Pascal is Maxwell's Ampere

10:35 PM

but with good VRAM

10:36 PM

Ampere offered performance / $ at the expense of balance

Ada Lovelace is by no means bad, it's extremely good! I just don't think the actual products it's in, at least consumer-facing ones like the GeForce brand, are good.

it's kinda like AMD with raster

10:36 PM

AMD offers good VRAM per tier

10:36 PM

you don't get a working GPU tho

(in your experience)

pyrrhic victory

that's also a very tricky thing, I've heard people with absolutely zero issues daily driving Radeon, and others that have had a worse time than Intel ARC users.

LukeTheVideoGamer

(in your experience)

they objectively have a broken encoder, their software stack is so bad I have seen plenty of people sell their XTX at massive losses and buy a 4080

10:37 PM

"it might be slow, but I heard it works, and the VRAM seems neat for the price"

10:38 PM

I know plenty that bought sim racing rigs with their XTXs and got burned

10:38 PM

for MONTHS while AMD couldn't fix their VR driver

10:38 PM

AMD is incompetent, if not complacent

10:39 PM

AMD had GCN - they had a compute-first GPU architecture they ditched with RDNA

10:39 PM

in the era of GPU compete becoming the key

10:39 PM

they did a Bulldozer

10:39 PM

RDNA is just a bet they took, and they lost architecturally

LukeTheVideoGamer

that's also a very tricky thing, I've heard people with absolutely zero issues daily driving Radeon, and others that have had a worse time than Intel ARC users.

If you try to do something like ai or compute or even recording at high resolutions amd will be a trainwreck, worse than intel

BUT I ONLY GAME BRO

recording at high resolutions meaning 1440p

10:40 PM

and 1080p is broken on AV1 (edited)

10:40 PM

I also only game but holy shit I need to record my screen for basic stuff like reporting bugs, and my amd card does a horrible job lol

yeah, NVENC is also like 10x faster in the high-end when you nerf it hard to match AMD quality

10:41 PM

while the AMD encoder is dying

have to use the cpu instead

Samueru

If you try to do something like ai or compute or even recording at high resolutions amd will be a trainwreck, worse than intel

which is perfectly understandable and good reasons to go for a product that can do it! for me? i don't really mind all that much, i just see funny number go up for lower price compared to other product and go "oh i want that one"

gamers buying CPUs for gaming via their cinebench numbers:

What number is that, vram?

i've heard of that btw

i don't have qualms with the product if it's GOOD, and Nvidia hasn't really offered that this generation

LukeTheVideoGamer

i don't have qualms with the product if it's GOOD, and Nvidia hasn't really offered that this generation

that's the trick

10:42 PM

we don't think nvidia is "absolutely good"

It doesn't have to be good, just better than dogshit

they are just the only realistic choice because the competitors are broken

10:44 PM

Ada does please my efficiency kink tho

10:44 PM

but that's personal

Took long enough

❤️

realistic choice for WHO??????? for WHO is it realistic for? for me? NO! for productivity users? SURE YEAH WHATEVER DUDE

10:44 PM

god you're actually pissing me off

if you're european

or maybe im pissing myself off, at this point it's hard to tell

AMD is automatically disqualified

and im not im american

(power consumption makes them more expensive) (edited)

sadly

also, for gaming

10:45 PM

do you care about image quality at all

10:45 PM

do you care about.. input lag? latency?

10:45 PM

or is the key here "it boots"

is this another "DLSS is better than FSR" thing cuz i don't fucking care

no

10:46 PM

but I might point out that if you have a Freesync Premium Pro display

10:46 PM

do not buy AMD

exio4

or is the key here "it boots"

all games will suck on all GPUs given enough criteria it has to meet

exio4

but I might point out that if you have a Freesync Premium Pro display

Lol forgot about that

RDNA3:
* AMF/encoders being extremely bad quality (been a thing for a while) => this relates to VR as well, as Quest VR will be using those encoders!
* ReLive turning itself off on any DRM'd content being around, and struggling to come back online
* AMF cannot record in HDR? [not sure on this]
* AV1 cannot encode 1920x1080, 1082p moment (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/9185#note_1954937)
* games w/ TAA will look worse than if you had used DLAA/DLSS (depending on the resolution)
=> FSR2 is falling behind, as it gets rare updates
* FSR3 frametimes are still not great (just "usable" now)
* unusable software stack for compute
=> the whole ROCm suite is linux only, you have bits of compute available from Windows
=> ROCm is a mess to get working, and code might not work well still - and if it does work, severely underperform
* underwhelming _compute_ performance _even if you optimize_
* underwhelming RT performance
* subpar VR performance
* broken power management on RDNA3 (https://youtu.be/HznATcpWldo?si=rpnXXLAupP0uEeKb&t=176) => plus potential high power consumption with a few monitors => plus potential high power consumption with video playback
* limited hardware handling of issues on userspace code (driver timeouts go brr) [T1]
* HDR1000 is broken on AMD (works on NVIDIA) / Freesync Premium Pro 

extras
* Reflex (Maxwell and up)
* NVIDIA's Video Super Resolution + AutoHDR for Videos
* RTX Broadcast [actually usable noise cancellation, etc]
* long-term driver support (Maxwell just received the new twitch multi-stream feature)
* DLSS 3.5 / Ray Reconstruction - better RT visuals
* RTX Remix (modding tools to make path traced remasters of games)

potential issues
* adrenaline suite will reset OC/fan curve on driver timeout (related to [T1], this is fine conceptually - if driver timeouts weren't easily triggered)
* it might forget OC/fan curve randomly anyways
* Windows might get confused, if you have an RDNA2 IGP from AMD (like Zen4 chips do!), and consider your XTX and IGP both “performance” and “power saving”
(So it is not easy to have some workloads work on either on demand)

"old" issues:
* VR was unusable/unplayable at launch (https://babeltechreviews.com/hellhound-rx-7900-xtx-vs-rtx-4080-50-games-vr/)
* power consumption on idle has been improving, from roughly 7+ months after launch, still not great though

(edited)

exio4

RDNA3:
* AMF/encoders being extremely bad quality (been a thing for a while) => this relates to VR as well, as Quest VR will be using those encoders!
* ReLive turning itself off on any DRM'd content being around, and struggling to come back online
* AMF cannot record in HDR? [not sure on this]
* AV1 cannot encode 1920x1080, 1082p moment (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/9185#note_1954937)
* games w/ TAA will look worse than if you had used DLAA/DLSS (depending on the resolution)
=> FSR2 is falling behind, as it gets rare updates
* FSR3 frametimes are still not great (just "usable" now)
* unusable software stack for compute
=> the whole ROCm suite is linux only, you have bits of compute available from Windows
=> ROCm is a mess to get working, and code might not work well still - and if it does work, severely underperform
* underwhelming _compute_ performance _even if you optimize_
* underwhelming RT performance
* subpar VR performance
* broken power management on RDNA3 (https://youtu.be/HznATcpWldo?si=rpnXXLAupP0uEeKb&t=176) => plus potential high power consumption with a few monitors => plus potential high power consumption with video playback
* limited hardware handling of issues on userspace code (driver timeouts go brr) [T1]
* HDR1000 is broken on AMD (works on NVIDIA) / Freesync Premium Pro 

extras
* Reflex (Maxwell and up)
* NVIDIA's Video Super Resolution + AutoHDR for Videos
* RTX Broadcast [actually usable noise cancellation, etc]
* long-term driver support (Maxwell just received the new twitch multi-stream feature)
* DLSS 3.5 / Ray Reconstruction - better RT visuals
* RTX Remix (modding tools to make path traced remasters of games)

potential issues
* adrenaline suite will reset OC/fan curve on driver timeout (related to [T1], this is fine conceptually - if driver timeouts weren't easily triggered)
* it might forget OC/fan curve randomly anyways
* Windows might get confused, if you have an RDNA2 IGP from AMD (like Zen4 chips do!), and consider your XTX and IGP both “performance” and “power saving”
(So it is not easy to have some workloads work on either on demand)

"old" issues:
* VR was unusable/unplayable at launch (https://babeltechreviews.com/hellhound-rx-7900-xtx-vs-rtx-4080-50-games-vr/)
* power consumption on idle has been improving, from roughly 7+ months after launch, still not great though

(edited)

ok dude

10:47 PM

i don't fucking??? care?????

ok, so why are you even buying a GPU?

"Nvidia has good features" big fucking deal

buy an xbox series S

10:47 PM

for $150

10:47 PM

or $100

10:47 PM

it's gonna be better value at "it runs games tho" than any GPU made by NVIDIA or AMD for the next 5 years

"power consumption is better!" im american, that only matters to me if i pair it with a fucking 550W power supply

american doesn't automatically disqualifies you

10:48 PM

some places have to pay ok prices for electricity, even something like $0.15-0.2 per kWh is enough to make them worse

10:49 PM

europeans at their $0.5-$0.8 just see it happen within a year

all i am fucking trying to say is that it does not fucking matter to me. plus, im a tinkerer at heart, if a game crashes, i'll fucking devote the next 12 hours of my life to trying to get it to work.

ok so buy Arc

10:49 PM

literally

10:49 PM

they offer 3070 hardware for $200

damn this debate still isn't over yet somehow

1

i would, if there wasn't that funky lil thing with Resizable BAR (curse you, AMD FX-6300 system i still put up with somehow)

LPhin

damn this debate still isn't over yet somehow

This one isn' near the longest btw

you're still using your FX-6300?

it's the only system i have that i can actually put a good GPU in i can't exactly do that with an iMac

my grandpa is on a FX-6100

10:51 PM

i need to upgrade him

10:51 PM

i underclocked the FX-6100 and disabled an extra module

10:51 PM

so it doesn't user 269W

exio4

i underclocked the FX-6100 and disabled an extra module

Bruh

LukeTheVideoGamer

it's the only system i have that i can actually put a good GPU in i can't exactly do that with an iMac

can that cpu even saturate a pascal gpu?

Egdarska

Bruh

im broke bro

LukeTheVideoGamer

i would, if there wasn't that funky lil thing with Resizable BAR (curse you, AMD FX-6300 system i still put up with somehow)

Get those cheap X99 combos for 60 usd, they will give a much much more usable hardware and some also support resizable bar

LotP

can that cpu even saturate a pascal gpu?

it can barely keep up with the 1650 i have in it, to say the least

10:52 PM

(though there ARE some games where im GPU bottlenecked and not CPU... the problem is that i can count them on one hand)

also, if you are buying hardware

10:53 PM

for the intent of keeping it for a decade

10:53 PM

why is AMD an option? they drop drivers

10:53 PM

lol

unofficial drivers

10:53 PM

RX 580 is still like 8 years old, and while official drivers aren't supported anymore it still has unofficial ones

10:53 PM

can't do that with Nvidia!

exio4

why is AMD an option? they drop drivers

Thank god mesa exists for me btw

LukeTheVideoGamer

can't do that with Nvidia!

NVIDIA doesn't drop 8 year old GPUs off their stack

exio4

why is AMD an option? they drop drivers

On current gpus lel

yeah, instead they drop 9 year old ones

LukeTheVideoGamer

yeah, instead they drop 9 year old ones

no?

10:55 PM

https://endoflife.date/nvidia-gpu

NVIDIA GPUs

Check end-of-life, release policy and support schedule for NVIDIA GPUs.

LukeTheVideoGamer

yeah, instead they drop 9 year old ones

Amd is selling igpus they will stop supporting this year

Egdarska

Amd is selling igpus they will stop supporting this year

they already stopped mainline support

10:55 PM

last year

Egdarska

Amd is selling igpus they will stop supporting this year

k

10:56 PM

Maxwell got Reflex in 2021

10:56 PM

iirc

iirc for kepler the nouveau drivers are 'good'

the key here is that you still get security support

10:57 PM

they dropped feature support

nvk should make opensource support for nvidia gpus better

10:57 PM

but for now nvk only supports, what, turing and up?

LPhin

nvk should make opensource support for nvidia gpus better

nvk is also getting very good, but it is for RTX2000 and newer gpus

yeah, the maxwell/pascal cards might get cursed with reverse engineering stuff, but I fully expect Turing and newer to go the way of normal GPUs

And also the 16xx gpus

10:58 PM

But yeah soon enough nvidia cards with nvk will be better than amd cards with mesa lol

oh right

10:58 PM

i forgor about 16 series

weird neutered turing

and you take the L by giving up DLSS

10:59 PM

get fsr2'd

It's a good thing amd only has a marginal market share

turing is gonna be 6 years old less than 5 months

Can you imagine the shitstorm if nvidia said sorry bro we're not supporting your 3090 anymore

and it uh

11:00 PM

got Video Super Resolution optimized purposefully for it (after launch)

It's too old, but we'll still sell it to you tho

is Turing the first GPU to get actual software finewine? as in

11:01 PM

AMD was Arc-tier finewine + games started leveraging features, like Turing

fresh round of switch 2 rumors again https://twitter.com/Kepler_L2/status/1758583764710465712

Kepler (@Kepler_L2) on X

Nintendo about to release an 8nm console in 2025

fitting twitter username lol

kepler is a known leaker though he's... unreliable?

but if you picked a Turing GPU "as your 6-8 year GPU", you've went through:

DLSS2
Reflex
NVENC beating AMD for the whole time in quality
compute stack being ahead, etc

11:02 PM

LPhin

fresh round of switch 2 rumors again https://twitter.com/Kepler_L2/status/1758583764710465712

samsung 8nm

11:06 PM

if it was tsmc 7nm itd be fine

11:06 PM

but samsung 8nm, we've got known what that does to a mf

some people are on copium and claiming that samsung 8n would be "too big" and "too inefficient" for a switch 2

11:07 PM

but

11:07 PM

knowing nintendo

11:07 PM

they're doing this cuz it's cheap xd

Lel

11:09 PM

A nintendo handheld has better encoders than the flagship amd card (edited)

Egdarska

A nintendo handheld has better encoders than the flagship amd card (edited)

i mean, phones…

Nintendo handheld hurts more

ok you are right lmao

Because it's something a phone can emulate

My nvme ssd has had 84M written since the last 5 hours, great!

uhh

11:15 PM

is that good? are you trying to reduce swap usage?

I don't have swap on disk

damn living raw

exio4

is that good? are you trying to reduce swap usage?

Yes very good

11:16 PM

You don't need swap on disk with zram

11:16 PM

once you spin asashi on the mac you will see how good it is

11:16 PM

I challenge you to try to ge the OOM to trigger with a ram * 2 zram with zstd compression

11:17 PM

I recently moved a lot of stuff to tmpfs, I now build programs and everything on mem, peak ram usage is about 4 GiB lol

i uh

11:17 PM

i only have 32gb of ram lol

MacOS on the other hand was hammering the ssds of the m1 on release, I don't know if they ever fixed that

exio4

i only have 32gb of ram lol

I have 16

Samueru

MacOS on the other hand was hammering the ssds of the m1 on release, I don't know if they ever fixed that

no but yes

You might wanna check how much your ssd gets written over time

I do

iotop-c can report that info

can it work on macos?

20 days uptime

11:20 PM

it's very little

1.41TB in 20 days?

yes

11:21 PM

I regularly hit swap

mmm that's average

yes

11:21 PM

32GB of RAM means macOS refuses to use swap

11:21 PM

"as much"

11:21 PM

It should not be swapping at all really

why?

11:21 PM

swap is good lol

I know, but doesn't mac have compressed memory?

if the OS is smart enough to know something is not needed now (e.g. Spotlight) - why bother spending memory keeping it fully in memory, even if heavily compressed

11:22 PM

when I do cmd+space it comes within a frame either way

Samueru

I know, but doesn't mac have compressed memory?

it does

11:23 PM

and it has multiple tiers

exio4

if the OS is smart enough to know something is not needed now (e.g. Spotlight) - why bother spending memory keeping it fully in memory, even if heavily compressed

That should only be done if you are at risk of running out of mem

fast compression, slow compression

it if swaps it out just because, it is just going to waste energy and ssd life, very little but a waste regardless

it doesn't waste energy

writting to the ssd does use energy

11:24 PM

iirc this is why android now only uses zram as well

yeah, but so does reading it for would-be-cached files (edited)

11:24 PM

some preemptive swap w/ I/O throttling is the standard macOS behavior iirc

11:25 PM

decompression also requires firing up p-cores, while compressing something over a second or two can just.. be done on the e-core

11:25 PM

e-cores are like 5x better at compression in energy consumption

11:25 PM

they are slow, so the OS should do that ahead of time

11:26 PM

I'm not sure how smart macOS is on that regard though, but I know it tries to keep almost all of the OS locked to the e-cores

Samueru

iirc this is why android now only uses zram as well

androids also have to put up with much slower flash

11:27 PM

like all phones really, but androids specifically get double cucked

Nah, the reality is that your memory will always be orders of magnitude faster than any ssd in random io

yes

11:28 PM

but memory is very scarce

11:28 PM

it's all about tradeoffs

11:29 PM

you're talking about as if normal memory was always available

11:29 PM

I upgraded to 48GB from 32GB on my desktop because Windows is really bad at memory management and it needed some help

11:29 PM

run blender, push the memory pressure to 28GB in that case, and the OS dies

That's zram exio

11:30 PM

booted with 4GIB mem only

11:30 PM

Windows is horrible on ram usage

11:30 PM

I've seen people that say that their 32GB swap fills to max on totk lol

what is zram using for compression? lol

zstd

that's impressive

It usually has a 1/4 to 1/3 compression ratio

11:32 PM

That shit is the download more ram mem being true

yeah memory is usually very easily compressed

meme*

but uh

11:32 PM

you can't compress RAM you're currently using

zstd can decompress at like 2GiB/s

yeah that's slower than a SSD in throughput

depending on the workload it can even be faster than lz4 at decompression

(i know latency will be pretty good)

and also the high compression ratio leaves more usable mem available

11:34 PM

there are some benchmarks on this

does zram dynamically choose the compression ratios?

11:34 PM

based on memory pressure

11:34 PM

if so that'd be awesome

https://old.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/mzun99/new_zram_tuning_benchmarks/

From the Fedora community on Reddit: New zram tuning benchmarks

Explore this post and more from the Fedora community

exio4

does zram dynamically choose the compression ratios?

No, the compression ratio is determined by what zstd does

11:35 PM

if the data compresses good, then you have a good compression ratio

I know.. I mean the tradeoff you pick

what gets swapped is determine by the swappiness in the kernel

11:35 PM

which with zram it is actually recommended to keep the swappiness high

Apple has multiple tiers it chooses from based on memory pressure

11:35 PM

if you have lots of memory available, it'll use a much faster/power efficient/etc algorithm that I can't remember the name of

11:36 PM

but has shit compression ratios

lz4

no, something evenv worse

I hope they not using lzo

that can do like 100GB/s

11:37 PM

iirc

Just use 4 ssds in raid 0 as swap

it's meant to be a "why don't we compress just in case, it'll be fast anyway"

Egdarska

Just use 4 ssds in raid 0 as swap

will still be slower than ddr3 in random io

raid 0 is cringe

11:38 PM

uhh

Muh throughput

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25208357 this nerd seems to suggest the hybrid mode is ARM exclusive

sirn

I also believe this is the case.Most experiment with 8GB M1 Macs I've seen so far (on YouTube) seems to start slowing down once the data cannot fit in a RAM, although the rest of the system remain responsive e.g. 8K RED RAW editing test. In the same test with 4K RED RAW there were some shuttering on the first playback but subsequent playback wer...

11:38 PM

and uses LZ4

LZ4 is good, just that the compression ratio is usually 1/2 instead

11:39 PM

iirc zstd is made by the same person that made lz4

Mac needs all the compression it can get because of the scam ram amounts

Egdarska

Mac needs all the compression it can get because of the scam ram amounts

And it loooks like the defaults are not that great

11:40 PM

@exio4 stop being a macos shill and put asashi with zram to its limits

darwin-xnu/osfmk/vm/vm_pageout.h https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu/blob/main/osfmk/vm/vm_pageout.h -

xnu/osfmk/vm/vm_pageout.h at main · apple-oss-distributions/xnu

Contribute to apple-oss-distributions/xnu development by creating an account on GitHub.

Samueru

@exio4 stop being a macos shill and put asashi with zram to its limits

fite me

Linux on Mac

I just want you to try to get the OOM to trigger on asashi

i will use asahi eventually

How to be insufferable twice at once (edited)

triggering OOM is nearly impossible on modern systems lol

Egdarska

How to be insufferable twice at once (edited)

opengl is already better on asashi

exio4

triggering OOM is nearly impossible on modern systems lol

limit your available memory to 8gb then

It's nonexistent on mac tho

Samueru

limit your available memory to 8gb then

even then

11:42 PM

I had macOS on my 2013 intel m*c with 8GB

But what were doing?

I don't even know what asahi is, I'm just shit-flinging

Try to play a game and compile chromium in the background then

Egdarska

I don't even know what asahi is, I'm just shit-flinging

Linux for the arm macs

a few docker VMs with 2/3GB ram each, VS Code with typescript shit, spotify with music non-stop

Literally I'm getting paid to poop at work (edited)

11:43 PM

Remember, don't poop at home, get paid

i work from home

11:43 PM

Sad

11:44 PM

Poop on the clock

11:44 PM

Not literally

11:44 PM

Or is it like a contractor thing?

exio4

a few docker VMs with 2/3GB ram each, VS Code with typescript shit, spotify with music non-stop

@Samueru it did use swap - but I actually only got OOM to trigger in the dual core mobile haswell when I fucked up and opened a cringe ass blender project

Egdarska

Or is it like a contractor thing?

sort of

exio4

@Samueru it did use swap - but I actually only got OOM to trigger in the dual core mobile haswell when I fucked up and opened a cringe ass blender project

do NOT open a blender project with 40+GB of textures with 8GB of RAM

11:45 PM

do not recommend

kek

Egdarska

Literally I'm getting paid to poop at work (edited)

exio4

do NOT open a blender project with 40+GB of textures with 8GB of RAM

I think it handles it nicer now

11:52 PM

It just slows to a crawl and freezes the system instead of hard crashing

11:53 PM

The real fun is doing the same but using eevee

eevee is raster

11:58 PM

lol

11:58 PM

no way

I don't know if they changed it but eevee used to have real issues with going over vram/ram

12:04 AM

Also it's not full raster

12:04 AM

Kinda

Egdarska

Also it's not full raster

i mean nothing is full raster nowadays

12:20 AM

what is the last gpus that truly did pure rasterization (edited)

12:21 AM

early 90s shit i bet

What do you count as full raster?

@exio4 I liked that you can see how much data was written to the disk in macos that I actually went and added that info to fastfetch with a custom script replacing the Uptime part.

Egdarska

What do you count as full raster?

nothing but rasterizing triangles, sorting/z buffer stuff idk

Samueru

@exio4 I liked that you can see how much data was written to the disk in macos that I actually went and added that info to fastfetch with a custom script replacing the Uptime part.

wack

2:47 AM

1GB… in 5 hours???

Yeah, and I did a pacman update in the meantime

2:48 AM

I keep my chromium browser cache in tmpfs and sync the important info back to disk every 5000 seconds

do you hate using storage

this is what I use:

exio4

do you hate using storage

This is the problem of using linux, you start optimizing every little thing xd

i already went through that phase

God forbid I don't fall in the Gentoo rabbithole and start making my own kernels

back in the late 00s early 10s

2:51 AM

custom init scripts which loaded as much as possible with sequential IO off the hard drive

Ain't nobody got time for that

to boot faster by doing random I/O off ram

Yeah, no chance I'm doing all that

exio4

custom init scripts which loaded as much as possible with sequential IO off the hard drive

I think ZFS would have done this automatically for you

Samueru

I think ZFS would have done this automatically for you

it was an intel atom netbook

2:52 AM

with 1gb of ram

I remember the days of messing with linux and spending days trying to get a game to render with no audio

2:52 AM

Now I won't bother with a game if it doesn't immediately work

same

2:59 AM

i lie if cyberpunk doesn’t boot i will try

We all have exceptions

3:00 AM

I spent so long getting witcher 3 to look and play like i wanted

I don't know if I'm stupid or tesla design isn't great but i just realised the inside door button is a top down drawing of the car with a door open and not a

Egdarska

I don't know if I'm stupid or tesla design isn't great but i just realised the inside door button is a top down drawing of the car with a door open and not a

what

exio4

what

Lol

i dont remember this much if im honest

also the tesla today had the belt stuck between the seat and the frame because there's a fucking stupid round plastic thing there

5:10 AM

great design elon

when i got into a model 3

5:10 AM

i lowkey wondered how the fuck they made a $40k car feel $5k with a clean design

lol

5:10 AM

bruh the doors

5:11 AM

flimsiest fucking things i've handled

like, it ... looks.? neat, but the feel of everything was trash?

5:11 AM

it's impressive

yeah

5:11 AM

the cup holder is cheap plastic

chinesium ios-looking android clone kind of

inb4 all plastic is cheap

5:11 AM

there's some premium feeling plastic

you look at some screenshots, it looks fine for a second

5:11 AM

then you check the animations of the phone and go "yeaaa this is not great"

teslas just feel like knockoff controllers

same vibe

actually scratch that, my controller feels nicer

it's quick tho

yeah, some of the things they do right are cool

5:12 AM

the whole "hud visualizing everything around you" thing is cool as fuck

5:12 AM

too bad cars pop into existence 2 meters from you

the ui on the software feels more responsive

5:13 AM

than a lot of cars i've been in

and i've seen it think a person is a trash can which is kinda worrying

but the quality also.. seemed much better online?

it's the amd adrenalin of car software

5:14 AM

also, the ride isn't smooth

ride felt fine for a $15-25k car

5:15 AM

wannabe sporty

i think the smoothest i've ridden was a bmw i5

5:15 AM

smoothest electric car

i've never been on an electric bmw, or a very recent bmw

it's $15,000 more expensive, realistically like $3,000 more expensive if you want the tesla that isn't barebones

5:16 AM

but it feels like it

5:17 AM

i also prefer the bmw in looks because it's just a car, that happens to be electric

I would not buy an electric car in today's state

5:19 AM

too many downsides rn at least

i would but i live in socal

bmw cars tend to look quite cringe

especially with Canadian winters

exio4

bmw cars tend to look quite cringe

cringier than teslas?

exio4

bmw cars tend to look quite cringe

false

5:19 AM

the m5 series at least

5:19 AM

looks pretty cool (edited)

i think any car that doesn't look as stupid as the gaming mouse honda civics is already ahead

5:20 AM

lmao wtf

5:21 AM

m3 is also heat (edited)

__fastcall

Click to see attachment 🖼️

this isnt a real car

5:22 AM

that one's fake but it's a real model

no car ever made should have that nose

that one does look too gaming mouse for my taste

you can cool the battery with the small grills at the bottom

exio4

this isnt a real car

false

those vertical middle ones are bmw's "signature" now

^

they put them on every car

yeah they automatically the car look like shit

bro so angry he a word

i unironically thik those look worse than a model 3 from the front

nah

5:25 AM

i can't express how much i hate the tesla grill

5:25 AM

"grill"

Egdarska

bro so angry he a word

its 3am i slept poorly, for like 6 hours after 50+ hours without sleep

5:25 AM

im not right rn

Egdarska

i can't express how much i hate the tesla grill

why

exio4

yeah they automatically the car look like shit

nuh uh

5:25 AM

this is why the meme exists

exio4

why

idk, i just see one and get mad

less isn't always more

just get the electric g wagon instead

did they change how it looks

5:27 AM

it says brand new but it looks very much the same.. but different?

it looks kinda diff yeah

just gonna post the peak of automobile design (edited)

5:27 AM

peak automobile design

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

__fastcall

peak automobile design

what car is that

looks american

Egdarska

looks american

shocker

exio4

what car is that

not sure actually

man why do all SUVs like they're obese cars

5:30 AM

look*

because that's what they are

c8 corvette

this feels like the most "i watched fast and furious and love cars" short ever

__fastcall

c8 corvette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x3SqeSdrAE electric delorean

Stanford

Beyond the Limits: MARTYkhana

5:34 AM

they TAS mathematically perfect drifts

lmfao

thinkpad

5:35 AM

of course

fr

5:35 AM

alert

it's stanford mfs

5:35 AM

what would they use, a fucking mac?

https://www.threads.net/@luokai/post/C26jKWWvqG9

luokai (@luokai) on Threads

lot of students at Stanford already have their own Vision Pro, and lots of people are trying it out! I’m starting to see that Apple’s seamless connectivity ecosystem is the real game-changer here. The way it works with the MacBook makes it much more likely that people will use it long-term, way more than they would a gaming device!

1/2 Appl...

5:36 AM

meow

>students

ikr

5:37 AM

also, vision pro can do image generation better than amd gpus

5:37 AM

5:38 AM

draw things runs on it i bet

When I heard on LTT that it requires a Macbook or iphone, I'm thinking that that defeats the purpose of a VR computer. Like you need an iPhone just to order it.

you can buy one in a store

5:38 AM

without an iphone

ltt

they do the face scan there

5:38 AM

also, you don't need a macbook

5:38 AM

it runs programs on its own

5:38 AM

which video is this

5:39 AM

i need to inject myself some misinformation

ltt told me is one step removed from i saw on reddit

exio4

which video is this

WAN Show when he was talking about his experiences with it

the only thing linus has been 100% correct about was linux being shit as a main system

you need an iphone to order it because they do a face scan, the fact that Android vendors have been too incompetent and couldnt get face scanners is on them

5:40 AM

Bigscreen Beyond is a PCVR headset... and it requires an iPhone

I forgot what exactly he said, just remembered that something about it requires a macbook.

1

... to scan your face on its webpage at purchase time (edited)

bruh when is CAT adding lidar to their phones?

Egdarska

the only thing linus has been 100% correct about was linux being shit as a main system

I still stand by my statement that Linux is a troll OS and any program that requires command line or editing ini files to change settings is a troll program.

nah, it's cool for datacenters

5:41 AM

it's just stupid to use it on desktop

programs requiring a command line is fine lol

kinda

not everything needs to be a GUI

i use ffmpeg with command line, but only because there's no good gui

like, Apple offers an app to send specific processes to certain maximum QoS

5:42 AM

they could do "more" - but a key there, it's a cli tool

5:42 AM

so I can just script things easily

5:43 AM

it's more power user friendly to allow for composition and CLIs do offer a basic level of composition without being a full blown software engineer

furiously typing

5:46 AM

why is discord so slow

you need to pay discord nitro super ti for fast access

i'm using like the world's 4th most powerful computer core for web performance and it still stutters????

LM Studio has presets that you can make that includes things like number of GPU layers, CPU threads assigned, the LLM settings, etc. To properly use LM Studio with multiple GPUs that have different amounts of VRAM (for example, 8GB and a 16GB GPU), you need to tell it to put more layers on one GPU than the other GPU. But to do that, you need to edit the preset file and change the "Tensor Split" text. But nowhere is it indicated that that is what you need to do. Googling didn't help. I had to ask in the LM Studio Discord, they mentioned vaguely about editing the file and essentially telling me to search. I search and can't find it. Then finally I'm told of the specific file that I need to edit and that it's actually the preset file, not the GPU preferences file. So, yes, if a program or OS requires commands to do almost literally anything, that is a TROLL OS/program. Literally "what is the magic code to get past this bridge?"

Egdarska

i use ffmpeg with command line, but only because there's no good gui

same with yt-dlp

GoldenSun3DS

LM Studio has presets that you can make that includes things like number of GPU layers, CPU threads assigned, the LLM settings, etc. To properly use LM Studio with multiple GPUs that have different amounts of VRAM (for example, 8GB and a 16GB GPU), you need to tell it to put more layers on one GPU than the other GPU. But to do that, you need to edit the preset file and change the "Tensor Split" text. But nowhere is it indicated that that is what you need to do. Googling didn't help. I had to ask in the LM Studio Discord, they mentioned vaguely about editing the file and essentially telling me to search. I search and can't find it. Then finally I'm told of the specific file that I need to edit and that it's actually the preset file, not the GPU preferences file. So, yes, if a program or OS requires commands to do almost literally anything, that is a TROLL OS/program. Literally "what is the magic code to get past this bridge?"

that's not normal use case m8

5:48 AM

this is you doing things the wrong way and complaining fixing it isn't straightforward

exio4

it's more power user friendly to allow for composition and CLIs do offer a basic level of composition without being a full blown software engineer

It has nothing to do with power users and everything to do with not having vague BS in your OS or program. It's like that puzzle in Skyrim that required you to look at an item in the inventory and rotate it when there was apparently no indication previously that that was something you should be trying. It's a troll.

there has never been a use case for gpus where having mismatched vram was "ok"

GoldenSun3DS

LM Studio has presets that you can make that includes things like number of GPU layers, CPU threads assigned, the LLM settings, etc. To properly use LM Studio with multiple GPUs that have different amounts of VRAM (for example, 8GB and a 16GB GPU), you need to tell it to put more layers on one GPU than the other GPU. But to do that, you need to edit the preset file and change the "Tensor Split" text. But nowhere is it indicated that that is what you need to do. Googling didn't help. I had to ask in the LM Studio Discord, they mentioned vaguely about editing the file and essentially telling me to search. I search and can't find it. Then finally I'm told of the specific file that I need to edit and that it's actually the preset file, not the GPU preferences file. So, yes, if a program or OS requires commands to do almost literally anything, that is a TROLL OS/program. Literally "what is the magic code to get past this bridge?"

ok, so a few things there; 1) an app not documenting its settings is a documentation issue 2) requiring some hoops for more advanced settings is normal 3) lm studio is a still a niche as hell small app

exio4

like, Apple offers an app to send specific processes to certain maximum QoS

speaking of apple https://becca.ooo/blog/so-you-want-to-ship-a-command-line-tool-for-macos/

So You Want to Ship a Command-Line Tool for macOS

It's one executable, how hard could it be?

GoldenSun3DS

It has nothing to do with power users and everything to do with not having vague BS in your OS or program. It's like that puzzle in Skyrim that required you to look at an item in the inventory and rotate it when there was apparently no indication previously that that was something you should be trying. It's a troll.

like a resident evil game?

Egdarska

that's not normal use case m8

It's a very normal use case to want to throw a bunch of GPUs you have at running AI, which requires massive amount of VRAM. Unless you're building a computer specifically for LLMs, you're probably not going to have multiple GPUs and all of them with the same VRAM capacity.

how is that normal?

5:50 AM

people who are going to use several gpus will be familiar with how it works

exio4

not everything needs to be a GUI

It's incompetent design if something CAN be done in gui but HASN'T been done in GUI.

again, there has never been a workload where it has been ok for gpus to have mismatched vram

5:51 AM

maybe blender rendering

LLMs are different because you can offload different layers

but then you're limited by the smallest amount

exio4

LLMs are different because you can offload different layers

yes, and isn't that the setting he's complaining about?

5:52 AM

i did things the wrong way requiring a fix i otherwise wouldn't need, why do i need this fix??

yes, the program by default (likely because there's a constant tension between user-friendly-ness, information density, readability, etc) just splits things evenly

yeah, because that's how gpus generally work

5:53 AM

it's cool that it gives option to do things differently if you fucked up, but that's kind of power user shit

The point is that they specifically have a preset file for configuring the LLM settings, but the GUI cannot edit all of the settings in that preset file.

the biggest issue here is the setting not being properly documented

well, isn't is foss?

i don't think so

but he's also complaining about having to use a config file, if it were documented he'd still complain

5:54 AM

but config edits are extras, as long as there's basic configuration in the program itself

The lack of documentation is just more evidence of being designed like a troll level in Mario Maker, where you require prior knowledge of the level in order to beat it because it is impossible to beat it on the first try.

wut

5:56 AM

you're mad knowledge of the program doesn't magically materialize in your brain?

5:56 AM

that's how software works, you need to know what to change

Egdarska

the only thing linus has been 100% correct about was linux being shit as a main system

Linus was just skill issue, I remember he complained that arch uses pacman instead of apt

blender is troll guys, i have to read a manual and fucking experiment to know what things do

Egdarska

but he's also complaining about having to use a config file, if it were documented he'd still complain

The main point is that the confif file isn't really a config file. It's a preset of user settings. The GUI allows you to edit the settings in this preset file, except for the Tensor Split setting.

Samueru

Linus was just skill issue, I remember he complained that arch uses pacman instead of apt

kinda, but the main point of the series was to show how linux was not ready to be a replacement OS for the average windows user

5:57 AM

which is 100% true

5:57 AM

specially when he'd go asking for help and the help would be HOW THE FUCK DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS

Egdarska

kinda, but the main point of the series was to show how linux was not ready to be a replacement OS for the average windows user

People even lied to him that hardware acceleration wasn't available with nvidia for obs kek

either way, all the linux users getting mad that he wasn't doing things right and just CLONE THE GIT YOU FUCKING GIT missed the point entirely

5:59 AM

if setting up an OS requires you to go to some site and download an executable just to use the computer it already failed

6:00 AM

and it wasn't even fair as an "average user" test because despite what it may seem, linus isn't completely fucking stupid

6:00 AM

a more apt test would have been taking one of the design employees and have them do it

Egdarska

but config edits are extras, as long as there's basic configuration in the program itself

My point with calling Linux a troll OS is that oftentimes, basic things require ~~magic riddle answers~~ commands, such as editing the pagefile or resetting the OS. Editing how much of the model is loaded on which GPU so that you can use GPUs with different VRAM capacities is a basic functionality. My point is that the culture of the troll OS Linux bleeds into the programs that run on it, including when those developers port stuff to Windows. Stable Diffusion kind of behaves like a virus. You do commands to install it and it's not showing in control panel, not showing in Task Manager and not easy to uninstall.

which linux distro doesn't have a reset button? (edited)

6:02 AM

i don't even know what that part about stable diffusion means

Egdarska

which linux distro doesn't have a reset button? (edited)

Ubuntu, which I tried specifically because of its reputation of being user friendly

you just either delete the files or run the uninstall bat file

6:03 AM

depending on how you installed it

6:04 AM

did they change it? it used to be under power off or whatever they call it

Egdarska

if setting up an OS requires you to go to some site and download an executable just to use the computer it already failed

Windows is like this, I remember I had to download some codecs to get some stuff to work, also most software on windows is installed manually while linux usually has a repo and a package manager that does this for you

it's a sub menu

Samueru

Windows is like this, I remember I had to download some codecs to get some stuff to work, also most software on windows is installed manually while linux usually has a repo and a package manager that does this for you

was that just for normal use though? i had to install codecs to play re2, but that's a capcom issue

All I remember is wanting to reset Ubuntu so that I could try again at installing Stable Diffusion for my Intel ARC GPU, and I couldn't find it and searching online was telling me that I needed commands to reset the OS.

you didn't think to click the power off button that looks like it has a menu under it?

Samueru

Windows is like this, I remember I had to download some codecs to get some stuff to work, also most software on windows is installed manually while linux usually has a repo and a package manager that does this for you

Games usually install those required things if you lack them

they even made it visual so it wouldn't need prior knowledge

Egdarska

was that just for normal use though? i had to install codecs to play re2, but that's a capcom issue

The codecs were needed to use audacity, I consider that normal use

that's not the os

6:07 AM

i have to install lots of shit but that's because i donwload a lot of programs that aren't "normal use"

Egdarska

that's not the os

In linux when you install a package the codecs are already dependencies and are installed alongside automatically, though depending on the mantainer this can be missed for some obscure program

so we're back to the average user thing

6:09 AM

what's a package? how's that different from a dependency? what's my maintainer?

Egdarska

that's not the os

Linux creates the culture of the Troll philosophy, and developers for programs on that OS tend to follow that culture with requiring ~~three riddles answered~~ command-line for setup and functionality. And like I said, that even bleeds over into Windows for programs like Stable Diffusion or LM Studio.

linux users assume that everyone just knows things that are linux exclusive (edited)

package is the program, dependency would be the codec in this case (which is also a package). maintainer is the person that keeps it up to date

Egdarska

linux users assume that everyone just knows things that are linux exclusive (edited)

Culture of trolls

you don't have to tell me that

6:10 AM

how is the average user supposed to know that?

linux is shit, and i dont think "CLIs are the best UX" by any means

6:10 AM

but i think hating clis as a form of user experience is just insane

Egdarska

how is the average user supposed to know that?

The way the average user knows what an apk is lol

they don't, that's my point

6:10 AM

go around android general sometime

like, "I think any apps that uses multiple windows should die" is a weird statement to say

6:11 AM

yeah, when gimp used these, it was bad

6:11 AM

and windows not supporting tabs on explorer was dumb

the average user doesn't mean the average user of discord emulation servers, it means the average person that needs to use a pc for work or school

Egdarska

go around android general sometime

Well the playstore installs the apks, same way in linux the software store you would use would install the packages for ya

but multiple windows aren't inherently bad

Samueru

Well the playstore installs the apks, same way in linux the software store you would use would install the packages for ya

again, that doesn't help the average user

6:11 AM

this is what i mean by linux users not getting the point

Samueru

Well the playstore installs the apks, same way in linux the software store you would use would install the packages for ya

does it

6:12 AM

i thought they used a new bundle thing

I'm definitely what you would call a power user. I'm not bad with computers. I just hate troll OS and troll programs. I consider command-line to be a troll design unless it is a development tool, and even then, something like RPG Maker (which I haven't used) that is targeted at non-developers should avoid troll design.

you have to take the person who only uses computers because they were taught how to make a word document so they can print it, and have them use a new OS

Egdarska

the average user doesn't mean the average user of discord emulation servers, it means the average person that needs to use a pc for work or school

I disagree. Even hardcore emulation users or LLM users shouldn't have to deal with "What's the magic pass code for getting past this bridge?"

GoldenSun3DS

I disagree. Even hardcore emulation users or LLM users shouldn't have to deal with "What's the magic pass code for getting past this bridge?"

but that's not an issue, because at that point you can do it

6:14 AM

there's a difference between something being an annoyance and an entry block

exio4

i thought they used a new bundle thing

What I will give you is that on linux due its nature there are multiple ways to install a program, you either use the native package, or use something like flatpak or the snap, appimage, etc. On android you just have apks and that is it

android doesnt have just apks

6:15 AM

you have app bundles too i think they're called

6:15 AM

meow

Well then, not that different then lol

Egdarska

but that's not an issue, because at that point you can do it

It's not about WANTING to do it, it's about NOT WANTING to do it. If I had to answer some riddle from a troll on my way to work, I could probably learn to answer his riddles. But I shouldn't have to learn some stupid riddles just to cross the street.

Linux is like using android without the playstore, you will jump thru some hoops because not everything is how you were used to do stuff

exio4

you have app bundles too i think they're called

aren't those just more apks?

6:16 AM

or building blocks for apks

Also @Egdarska I remember you have complained that you had issues getting audio in linux long ago, this was thanks to pulseaudio being a mess at that time, today pipewire just werks, it will even take alsa or pulse and pipe it directly to your audio output

Or what if I take a break from using a program for a few months? Now I've forgotten those magic riddle answers and I have to refresh my memory on answers that the troll wants, whereas with a well-designed GUI, i don't have that problem.

way simpler than the mess I had to do with wasapi windows years ago

GoldenSun3DS

Or what if I take a break from using a program for a few months? Now I've forgotten those magic riddle answers and I have to refresh my memory on answers that the troll wants, whereas with a well-designed GUI, i don't have that problem.

you're misunderstanding the point, nobody is saying things should not be documented

6:24 AM

but having to read documentation is like, not the end of the world

i love documentation

6:26 AM

inject that shit right into my veins

6:28 AM

the quick start guide of our new charting software is 126 pages lol

i love that elites decided that teaching people to read was good at some point

no one is going to read that shit

the key tho

6:28 AM

is that you can ctrl-f

6:28 AM

it's sick

i like reading it full tho

cmd+f and search what you need, and then you read in context and what not

i'm still waiting for the power user manual, that one's printed

Also I remembered I once installed the european version of windows 10 or something like that, that shit could not even let me watch videos and to install the codec the microsoft store was charging 1 usd lol

Egdarska

i like reading it full tho

for software that i "wanna use a lot" i first skim through docs a lot

6:29 AM

to know "what i should check" when im confused by something

i just read it

6:31 AM

that way i don't need to check later because i already read it

no

6:31 AM

i can only read it like that if i hyperfixated on it

6:31 AM

like the ancap government sent the law to congress that destroyed the country

6:31 AM

i was like

6:31 AM

i cant stop thinking about this i need to read it

6:31 AM

so i spent a whole ass night (and day) reading laws lol

i always feel that way about manuals

I don't read documentation just ask ai questions lol

6:32 AM

And sometimes it lies very badly btw

bro thinks AI isn't a hallucination machine

6:33 AM

LLMs are the best for "creative" shit, it's deranged to think techbros are trying to replace humans this way

Like I asked the ai where did you get that from and then it says, sorry that info was incorrect lol

i've probably read the blender manual like 12 times

I love LLMs, don't get me wrong

one for each major release

machine learning is awesome

6:33 AM

but those cryptobros mofos need to chill the heck down

i wonder if some cryptobro hasn't tried to do an ai-only stocks trading machine and the authorities just haven't found his body

man

6:35 AM

i just found out there's an iOS app for running "small large language models" on them

6:35 AM

im coping so hard rn

lol

6:36 AM

small large-ish kinda medium language models

the key here is that uh

6:36 AM

ive got 4gb of ram

6:36 AM

it literally cucks me

6:37 AM

i think it needs 6gb of ram

6:37 AM

lol

buy a k70

6:37 AM

24GB of ram bro

k70?

6:37 AM

kepler is cringe for ai

6:37 AM

too old and even nvidia dropped support for it

i meant the phone lol

oh

https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_redmi_k70_pro-12714.php

i actually would be worse off on android cuz the socs tend to be amd tier on drivers

exio4

but those cryptobros mofos need to chill the heck down

Not all AI-bros are crypto bros.

GoldenSun3DS

Not all AI-bros are crypto bros.

the techno-optimist libertarians into e/acc are

the overlap is almost a circle

the key here is the e/acc cult

I like AI for its usecases with text and image generation, but crypto is a ponzi scheme. I made a test prompt for testing story writing be about a crypto bro investing his and his wife's life savings into crypto lol

I personally think that the biggest use for AI is just the random shit that Apple does

6:43 AM

or Google even

6:43 AM

like, you get a message - offer me context-driven suggestions

have the laptop learn when

time starts so it starts lowering brightness

"hey you wanna hang tomorrow? i'm free around 7 after work" [have a pop-up appear that based off contextual information, trying to mimic your own style] "yeah im free around that time", etc

and turns night sound mode on

exio4

"hey you wanna hang tomorrow? i'm free around 7 after work" [have a pop-up appear that based off contextual information, trying to mimic your own style] "yeah im free around that time", etc

this kind of shit is that cryptobros are scared off, helpful, humane uses of generative AI (edited)

6:46 AM

they want everything to be a scam

6:47 AM

the shit that you could go with suggestions is wild, unironically, imagine if you had an AI just learn your own writing style; it had access to ur calendar, photos, and what not lol

6:47 AM

i want that on-device

6:48 AM

if apple delivers it on-device with good enough quality, while the industry moves to everything online

6:48 AM

i'll unironically become a hardcore apple simp at that point

6:49 AM

im still eepy wtf caffeine doesnt fix this

6:51 AM

how much of a shit person i am if i get a job for an AI company

6:51 AM

typescript, react, C++, all together

that's a weird combination of languages

8:22 AM

no python for AI?

LPhin

no python for AI?

not in the job listing

hey guys so i have nowhere else to ask this on discord at least but im getting a new gpu soon, im thinking about going with a 2060 (ik its not the greatest but i live in a 3rd world country and live in a poor family), do you guys think thats gonna be good enough to run games like elden ring, baldurs gate 3 with medium to high settings at 60 fps 1080p, some games on yuzu like TOTK at 60 fps 1080p also?

1:42 PM

i have a i3 10100, 16 gigs of ram and a 550w PSU btw

the 2060 is fine, its the i3-10100 that will hold you back for totk specifically, it should work fine for most other yuzu games and regular games in general but you're not getting 60fps with totk on that cpu

2:48 PM

@Quack ^

2:51 PM

but yeah, yuzu is more cpu intensive than gpu, youll be able to play games like smash bros and mario kart pretty much flawlessly with your cpu but TOTK is like the special child of yuzu and requires a powerful cpu to run smooth 30fps let alone 60fps (edited)

2:54 PM

but to answer your earlier question, you will be more than fine with elden ring, and baldurs gate 3 for 1080p 60fps, in fact you could probably squeeze out 120fps if you fine tune your settings and use DLSS

Quack

hey guys so i have nowhere else to ask this on discord at least but im getting a new gpu soon, im thinking about going with a 2060 (ik its not the greatest but i live in a 3rd world country and live in a poor family), do you guys think thats gonna be good enough to run games like elden ring, baldurs gate 3 with medium to high settings at 60 fps 1080p, some games on yuzu like TOTK at 60 fps 1080p also?

2060 will do you great if the price is right!

3:57 PM

I'm on a 2060 super, got the extra vram I wanted at the time - can vouch for things like DLSS hard-carrying the thing acegikMeow

if you don't mind a bit of artifacting at times for a pretty big uplift in performance, at 1080p it'll be a personal question - but 2060 will do fine if you manage to snatch a higher resolution monitor over the next years as well! (edited)

2060

but, like @DeAthWisH00123 said - the CPU will be the bottleneck at times... which is fine! something gotta be the bottleneck on a system, and yours wouldn't weirdly unbalanced for gaming, or anything like that

every bottle needs a neck, after all

exio4

but, like @DeAthWisH00123 said - the CPU will be the bottleneck at times... which is fine! something gotta be the bottleneck on a system, and yours wouldn't weirdly unbalanced for gaming, or anything like that

It shouldn't be that much of a bottleneck, if at all, for regular games, but it will be for some games on yuzu (edited)

4:22 PM

bottleneck calculator says 17% bottleneck for gpu intensive workloads (regular games)

4:23 PM

so its not that bad really

DeAthWisH00123

bottleneck calculator says 17% bottleneck for gpu intensive workloads (regular games)

I have a 50% bottleneck

4:24 PM

That is nothing

whats your config?

I7 8700 and 3070

oh dear

4:25 PM

yeah i dont need to verify that lmao

Although that might have been a check for the i3 3220 and a 1070

ill do it for you one sec (edited)

Thanks

i7-8700 with a 3070 at 1080p has a 25% bottleneck

4:27 PM

let me check the other one

4:28 PM

lmao you were right about the 1070

4:28 PM

4:29 PM

why dont you upgrade your 3070 build?

4:30 PM

you could go lga 1700 or am4 if you dont want to buy new ram but if you go AM5 that could future proof your build because its a new socket

4:31 PM

@Awesomeangotti ^

DeAthWisH00123

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Zamn

DeAthWisH00123

why dont you upgrade your 3070 build?

I would but its a very upgraded pre built

lmao

And at what point is it not the same pc?

4:34 PM

So if i really wanted to i could get a new cpu, ram and case then i would have a fully functional pc

new motherboard and processer is when id say its not the same

Also ill have to buy windows instead of using the board license

Awesomeangotti

And at what point is it not the same pc?

The Rig of Theseus

you shouldnt have to buy windows again

4:35 PM

as long as you use the same drive

4:35 PM

unless its motherboard bound

4:35 PM

which is super gay

4:35 PM

but ive never had problems with that

DeAthWisH00123

you shouldnt have to buy windows again

Sven since its an oem licence?

oh

4:36 PM

then yeah you might

4:36 PM

rip

DeAthWisH00123

unless its motherboard bound

Aliemware

I just picked up a cheap key for like $20

im so sorry for your loss

4:36 PM

the dell curse that is alienware

Might yoink a win7 key from a pc

Apparently there are also scripts to get around the more annoying parts of Windows not being Genuine™

i dont even think a new motherboard would fit in an alienware case

MS changed their policy about old Win7 enterprise keys sometime within the last year

deadlybydsgn

MS changed their policy about old Win7 enterprise keys sometime within the last year

Can i still get its pro copy to win 10?

yeah you would need a whole new case, even if you fit the motherboard there would be no room for a cooler because dell thought it would be an amazing idea to put the power supply where the cooler needs to go like bruh, and barley any airflow in the case itself means it would thermal throttle so fast lmao (edited)

DeAthWisH00123

yeah you would need a whole new case, even if you fit the motherboard there would be no room for a cooler because dell thought it would be an amazing idea to put the power supply where the cooler needs to go like bruh, and barley any airflow in the case itself means it would thermal throttle so fast lmao (edited)

I dont actuall throttle

yeah maybe not with an i7-8700 lmao

1

Mmm

deadlybydsgn

I just picked up a cheap key for like $20

You paid for Windows?

any modern processer would die in an alienware case

4:40 PM

@deadlybydsgn can you refund it?

4:40 PM

That's $20 you could've put towards some fly new kicks.

i love the progression of our conversation lol, started with "bottlenecked system" ok that could be an easy upgrad- "pre-built" ok thats not bad at all plenty of people buy prebuilts and do upgrades down the lin- "alienware"

yeah you need a new everything with the exception of your storage device and your new gpu of course lol (edited)

1

squanchy 🥗

You paid for Windows?

My wife uses what turned into the secondary computer (older gaming PC guts), and I didn't think she'd appreciate some of the limitations of the non-activated version (edited)

Do i even need a case

i figured out how to get rid of the windows activation logo a couple years ago on my old system but i dont think the method i used works anymore lol

Awesomeangotti

Do i even need a case

technically not

DeAthWisH00123

any modern processer would die in an alienware case

Fx 9850 with dual gtx 480

Just a cpu mobo and ram

i wouldnt reccommend a caseless pc

Gonna make it on a piece of plywood

4:54 PM

Homemade

Awesomeangotti

Just a cpu mobo and ram

yo wood workshopped pc case would actually be sick

4:55 PM

well the most annoying problem with a caseless pc is the fact that you will have no front io

4:55 PM

so you will have to jump start your pc with a screwdriver everytime you want to turn it on lol

DeAthWisH00123

well the most annoying problem with a caseless pc is the fact that you will have no front io

I can solve that

4:56 PM

Probably

4:56 PM

Maybe

4:56 PM

Could you use a flipstick?

unless you get some sort of adapter on amazon thats just a button that goes over your 2 power switch pins

4:57 PM

do you really want to cheap out that much instead of getting a case lmao

DeAthWisH00123

i figured out how to get rid of the windows activation logo a couple years ago on my old system but i dont think the method i used works anymore lol

Some rando on reddit told me a few scripts can disable the most annoying limitations (like the background, lack of taskbar customization, etc)

I mostly want to make a cool looking pc

well, cool looking costs money unfortunetly

Could put it on the inside of a lawnmower deck

uhh

Pc sword

4:59 PM

Am i sane?

i think we are slowly spiraling out of control here

Perhaps

but in all seriousness you do need a case or you risk short circuiting all of your wonderful valuable and fragile components

Yep

all it takes is one drop of liquid or a small peice of metal like a screw on your motherboard

5:01 PM

followed by a little bit of smoke and 1000 dollars gone (edited)

Pretty jank

5:01 PM

Too bad we cant put some sort of coating on it

i mean...

To prevent contact with metals and crap

you can...

There are so many case options these days that I don't see the point in avoiding one

This has mostly gone into theoreticals now

you could cover your entire motherboard in Vaseline...

I intend to get a nice looking case if i finally get a new mobo and cpu

Awesomeangotti

I intend to get a nice looking case if i finally get a new mobo and cpu

you're going to need a new cpu cooler

And a cooler

whatever cooler is in your alienware aint it bro

5:04 PM

probably just an intel stock cooler

DeAthWisH00123

probably just an intel stock cooler

I got the weird water cooled varient

1

oh lord

truly alien

id still get a new cooler

But i will just put my old parts back into the alienware once i get a new mobo and stuff

5:05 PM

Then i can have two mostly not bottlenecked pcs!

5:06 PM

(And one that has a tendancy to run hot!)

you can sell your ultra powerful alienware gaming pc on ebay once you build your new system

I might actually turn it into some sort of nas

Awesomeangotti

Then i can have two mostly not bottlenecked pcs!

I have a 7800X3D + 2080 and an i7-6800K + 1060. It's a good time

5:07 PM

Although I'm not problematically bottlenecked since I'm not going over 60fps or doing 4K

I can run the alienware for work and the newer one for games

7800x3d is a good one, im definitley going AM5 on my next gaming pc build

deadlybydsgn

Although I'm not problematically bottlenecked since I'm not going over 60fps or doing 4K

Perhaps i should not be pushing out 4k120hdr10

5:07 PM

(Only gets there on light games)

I only went that high because MicroCenter bundles are stupid good deals

i bought a powerful new gaming laptop recently that will last me a good couple years and i can probably sell it for a lot later down the line

DeAthWisH00123

i bought a powerful new gaming laptop recently that will last me a good couple years and i can probably sell it for a lot later down the line

Sell it as vintage

5:08 PM

Easy double the cash

I didn't see the point in paying $100 less to get a 12900K on a dead end socket, and the 13700K and 14700K pricing were the same as the AM5 (edited)

(Or not idk)

5:09 PM

Wonder when cpus gonna get beefy enough to run totk 60fps constantly

i7-12700h with a laptop 4070 and 64gb of ram i can defintley get a good price out of it later down the line i think

The alienware maxxes out at 3200mhz ram

Awesomeangotti

Wonder when cpus gonna get beefy enough to run totk 60fps constantly

Depends on one's definition of "constantly"

I put 3600 in it and it had a fucking stroke

5:10 PM

So i swapped it to 3200 64gb and it works mighty fine

IMO the 7800X3D does it just fine, but people say it's technically hitting all of the 1% lows in the most demanding areas. I don't really notice

Awesomeangotti

I put 3600 in it and it had a fucking stroke

lol, it should just run the ram at 3200 if you put 3600 ram in it

DeAthWisH00123

lol, it should just run the ram at 3200 if you put 3600 ram in it

It tossed out a memory error : (

5:10 PM

Failed that post thing

rip, you may just have to maually limit the ram speed in the bios

DeAthWisH00123

rip, you may just have to maually limit the ram speed in the bios

Could not even reach bios at 3600

oh like it wont even post into the bios?

5:11 PM

thats pretty weird

Nope

5:11 PM

As soon as i put one stick of slower ram in it it worked

good ol dell

But none of the faster stuff even showed

making things complicated for no reason

5:12 PM

Dell is the worst computer company ever lol

Sucky pcs?

yeah pretty much

Also cant change bootlogo : (

bad customer service too

Do animated bootlogos exist?

Awesomeangotti

Also cant change bootlogo : (

well the boot logo is tired to the motherboard you cant really change that

5:13 PM

unless you mean something else

Huh, i thought you could change it

my laptop has an asus motherboard so it always says asus when booting up

5:13 PM

not without some sort of custom bios revision

What the windows icon replaces the company logo

5:13 PM

That

5:13 PM

Thats what im tbinking of

what do you mean

Where on dell laptops it has the dell logo with a circle around it on bootup

5:14 PM

With the windows spinny circle below it

DeAthWisH00123

but yeah, yuzu is more cpu intensive than gpu, youll be able to play games like smash bros and mario kart pretty much flawlessly with your cpu but TOTK is like the special child of yuzu and requires a powerful cpu to run smooth 30fps let alone 60fps (edited)

yeah i thought so but thats fine by me, i dont really care playing switch games at 30 fps, so long as theres not a lot of stuttering and i can play at 1080 - 1440p

exio4

I'm on a 2060 super, got the extra vram I wanted at the time - can vouch for things like DLSS hard-carrying the thing acegikMeow

if you don't mind a bit of artifacting at times for a pretty big uplift in performance, at 1080p it'll be a personal question - but 2060 will do fine if you manage to snatch a higher resolution monitor over the next years as well! (edited)

oh thats great! i don't really care about anything above 60 fps since i have a 60hz basic monitor lol, thanks for the info guys

5:39 PM

also about the bottleneck, 17% isn't that big of a deal to me so i'll be fine

Are linux drivers still janked up for gaming on nvidia crads

Linux on x11 gives equivalent performance to windows

8:35 PM

on Turing+

Awesomeangotti

Are linux drivers still janked up for gaming on nvidia crads

On desktop the propietary drivers are good, nvk is still on development but usable depending on what you want to do.

8:38 PM

On laptops you may still have some issues with prime btw

do not use nvk ^

__fastcall

do not use nvk ^

Have you tested nvk btw?

Samueru

On laptops you may still have some issues with prime btw

seen someone test it

8:43 PM

iirc might have been phoronix

I've seen some vids, including a yuzu test

8:43 PM

the only issue is the frametimes aren't that great yet

8:43 PM

but the games work and don't crash lol

8:43 PM

depending on what you are going to do with the pc you might as well just use the nvk drivers

no reason to use it anyway not like its better than the proprietary drivers (edited)

__fastcall

no reason to use it anyway not like its better than the proprietary drivers (edited)

You avoid running into issues if your kernel modules don't build and you are met by a tty once booting back in

8:45 PM

So for someone that doesn't know how linux works the nvk drivers are better in that sense, they don't have to mess recovering from that

Samueru

You avoid running into issues if your kernel modules don't build and you are met by a tty once booting back in

dkms

Samueru

So for someone that doesn't know how linux works the nvk drivers are better in that sense, they don't have to mess recovering from that

for someone who doesn't know how linux works they definitely don't want to deal with a subpar driver that doesn't have direct manufacturer support

__fastcall

for someone who doesn't know how linux works they definitely don't want to deal with a subpar driver that doesn't have direct manufacturer support

I mean would say that for the amf drivers lol?

the chance of the kernel module not building and getting met with a tty is pretty tiny (edited)

Samueru

On desktop the propietary drivers are good, nvk is still on development but usable depending on what you want to do.

So gaming on linux with an nvidia card is fine and dandy?

__fastcall

the chance of the kernel module not building and getting met with a tty is pretty tiny (edited)

happened to me a few times when I had nvidia

8:48 PM

granted it was pascal lol

Awesomeangotti

So gaming on linux with an nvidia card is fine and dandy?

as long as it's Turing or higher you shouldn't have many issues at all

8:48 PM

and use X11

8:48 PM

not wayland

I've seen people shit to no end on ZFS just for the fact that you also need kernel modules for that lol (edited)

Nvidia drivers take a performance and latency hit on wayland

Even though ZFS has a bunch of usable features

__fastcall

as long as it's Turing or higher you shouldn't have many issues at all

3070

that is turning or higher

8:49 PM

just make sure you are using xorg

8:49 PM

and not wayland

The what is a xorg

what distro

And a wayland

Awesomeangotti

The what is a xorg

God bless you

if it's something like Ubuntu or fedora it will default to wayland

8:50 PM

in the corner of ur screen there should be some text you can click

8:50 PM

and switch it back to x11

Awesomeangotti

And a wayland

basically how linux renders the display wayland is the new one but has a lot of issues with nvidia

8:51 PM

xorg is stable but outdated and has multiple flaws, but still better than wayland right now for your usecase (edited)

You will still have issues with wayland on amd btw, I could not figure out why pipewire only let me choose one display to record.

8:52 PM

Or why thunar configuration reseted to default lol

Samueru

You will still have issues with wayland on amd btw, I could not figure out why pipewire only let me choose one display to record.

oh yeah screensharing only works properly on like

8:53 PM

kde and hyprland

It was on hyprland with obs

odd

8:53 PM

hyprland should work the best

clicking on the thing to select display for the pipewire input did not open anything

well it only gets worse from here

8:53 PM

that's reassuring

if you have one display this isn't an issue

8:55 PM

Also if you want to set multiple monitors as one (like the 3 I use for racing games) there is no way to do it in sway, I don't know if other wayland window managers can (edited)

sway is generally really behind

8:56 PM

because they follow stable wlroots

Yeah if I need to switch I might go with hyprland, it was easier to use than sway in the limited test I did

8:57 PM

but with hyprland I could find a way to have a single keybind done multiple actions

8:57 PM

there most be a way for that

8:57 PM

on i3 and sway you just separate the actions by a comma

check the wiki iirc there is a way to do that

I did, couldn't find anything

8:58 PM

8:59 PM

For example there I move the window to a different workspace, focus on that workspace, and send a notification of the new workspace I switched to. each separate by a comma

8:59 PM

never had a need to do this (edited)

8:59 PM

ask in the discord ig

9:00 PM

there's probably a way

Yeah, I will ask on reddit once I give another shot to hyprland

9:01 PM

9:03 PM

That's also another complex thing I have going on, mod+f1 launches the web browser, but if it is already open it will focus on it instead, however I use the PWAs of the web browser for discord, telegram, whatsapp, so I don't want to focus on those (I use mod+f4 for that) so I need to filter which window instance I don't want to focus with i3-msg, I will need to find a way to do something similar in hyprland

9:04 PM

And i3 is the "easy" wm, other window managers you directly edit the source code of the thing lol

lmaoo

9:06 PM

dwl

Samueru

Yeah, I will ask on reddit once I give another shot to hyprland

the discord is official, idk abt the reddit

__fastcall

the chance of the kernel module not building and getting met with a tty is pretty tiny (edited)

And btw, you would be surprise on how little people know about kernel modules. I once on reddit I remember something complaining that the nvidia drivers were shit, when I asked them what happened they describe what was very obviously mkinitcpio falling to run. I explained to then that need to make sure that mkinitcpio doesn't fail after an update, that isn't a fault directly of the nvidia drivers, etc And then the person tells me I use dracut. Turns out they somehow managed to install Gentoo and did not know how the fuck their computer worked lol. holy shit. (edited)

Samueru

And btw, you would be surprise on how little people know about kernel modules. I once on reddit I remember something complaining that the nvidia drivers were shit, when I asked them what happened they describe what was very obviously mkinitcpio falling to run. I explained to then that need to make sure that mkinitcpio doesn't fail after an update, that isn't a fault directly of the nvidia drivers, etc And then the person tells me I use dracut. Turns out they somehow managed to install Gentoo and did not know how the fuck their computer worked lol. holy shit. (edited)

?????

9:13 PM

LOl

9:13 PM

I learnt abt them on my first arch install

9:13 PM

because I actually spent like 3hs reading the wiki

9:13 PM

and didn't use some yt video or whatever (edited)

I fucking ran into somebody that had been using Gentoo for a year+ and had no idea lmao

9:15 PM

And this was long before gentoo shipped binaries like it does now

9:15 PM

They got very far somehow lol

looool

Mf really installed gentoo

9:28 PM

Madlad

Samueru

And btw, you would be surprise on how little people know about kernel modules. I once on reddit I remember something complaining that the nvidia drivers were shit, when I asked them what happened they describe what was very obviously mkinitcpio falling to run. I explained to then that need to make sure that mkinitcpio doesn't fail after an update, that isn't a fault directly of the nvidia drivers, etc And then the person tells me I use dracut. Turns out they somehow managed to install Gentoo and did not know how the fuck their computer worked lol. holy shit. (edited)

what the fuck

exio4

what the fuck

I didnt even know what dracut was at that time lol

i have no idea what dracut is (edited)

Dracut is an alternative to mkinitcpio that is used in Gentoo and Void linux

10:37 PM

Those are also distros that dont use systemd

10:38 PM

They are very diferent, if you go around googling for solution for issues you will have a bad time because most results will be for systemd and other popular tools instead

10:39 PM

Like if you try to do a systemctl enable service on gentoo or void it wont work lol

10:40 PM

On those you have to manually do the symlink of the service

10:41 PM

And then you have the distros that use musl instead of glibc

10:41 PM

That's the kind of distro I would call trollos lol

10:46 PM

Same for journald, there isn't even a journaling service installed in voidlinux kek

Quack

also about the bottleneck, 17% isn't that big of a deal to me so i'll be fine

the interesting thing about a cpu bottleneck, is that when you turn up your resolution, the bottleneck will go away, because your gpu is being further utilized over your cpu, because now it doesnt have to pump out more fps because your gpu is rendering at a high enough resolution to where the gpu is being maxxed out, and thus fully utilized

11:03 PM

(not talking about yuzu, just normal games in general)

11:03 PM

so you could totally play at 1440p 60hz and not be bottlenecked

good to know, 1440p is my sweet spot

again, your cpu only gets bottlenecked because it has to display all the frames from your gpu so if you give your gpu a reason to pump out less fps, (like turning up resolution or graphics settings) then your cpu doesnt get bottlenecked

oh so basically i just gotta force my gpu a little lol

11:05 PM

thx for the tip

i recommend using DLSS at a 1440p display resolution, and capping your fps to 60 for a smooth and hopefully stable experience

yeah i usually use v sync because for some reason it makes my games look way smoother than just locking my fps to 60

11:07 PM

and it helps with stutters too i think, idk, i just notice less of them with it enabled

11:07 PM

i don't really understand how these things work lmao

thats totally fine, i personally find input delay annoying so i may hard cap the fps in the nvidia control panel and games barley screen tear so it doesnt bother me

11:11 PM

my laptop can usually get like 160-200 fps in the games i play so i cap my fps to 144, (which is my screens refresh rate) and it always ends up running buttery smooth, i use this software called RTSS (RivaTunerStatisticsServer) to cap and track fps on my laptop

i only enable it in third person games tho, for some reason v sync makes your camera in first person games feel weird

11:12 PM

it makes your camera feel floaty, i guess?

yes, v-sync eliminates screen tearing and stuttering for a smoother consistent experience at the expense of more input delay

11:13 PM

like the game wont be as responsive to your inputs with vsync on

11:14 PM

so i like to keep that off on any game i play as i value response time, and my games run smooth anyway so i dont really need it (edited)

yeah it all depends on what games you play really, well thanks for the info

1440p + DLSS Quality/Balanced are OP

https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-pro-120-fps-4k-machine/

PlayStation 5 Pro Will Be Marketed as a 120 FPS, 4K Machine; Perfor...

Thanks to AI upscaling and better specs, Sony will market the PlayStation 5 Pro as a 120 FPS, 4K machine

11:38 PM

The source is a guest on MLID's podcast, not MLID himself, so we don't have to dismiss it out of hand.

120 FPS and 4K machine, or 120FPS OR 4K Machine?

yes

11:40 PM

Downgrade from the 8k ready 120fps marketing of the ps5

i mean

11:59 PM

if they get an AI upscaler going it could do better at upscaled 1080p than fsr2 from 1300p

exio4

if they get an AI upscaler going it could do better at upscaled 1080p than fsr2 from 1300p

Amd ai upscaler tho

Egdarska

Amd ai upscaler tho

not amd

12:00 AM

sony

12:00 AM

microsoft is working on their own, as well

12:01 AM

they kinda gave up on amd for software

It has to run on amd hardware

also, Netflix casually dropped Nimona on YouTube lol

12:04 AM

didn't know it was based off ND Stevenson's work either, lowkey makes me excited

12:04 AM

she-ra was cool

I just read about the new Switch not coming until 2025

The original Switch released in March of 2017, so it wouldn't be surprising if it follows around that same time next year

1:24 AM

But holiday console releases are the best, IMO

1:24 AM

I don't think we can go another year with this horrible hardware

What hardware is it based on?

Moonlacer

But holiday console releases are the best, IMO

For exactly that reason, and they always sell out

deadlybydsgn

What hardware is it based on?

Tegra x5 def

exio4

1440p + DLSS Quality/Balanced are OP

YESSSSSSSSSS

5:34 AM

also

5:35 AM

in FSR's defense

5:35 AM

when it comes to 4k

5:35 AM

it's much better compared to it's 1080p counterpart

5:35 AM

still not dlss

5:35 AM

but

5:35 AM

it's actually useable

Quack

yeah i usually use v sync because for some reason it makes my games look way smoother than just locking my fps to 60

frametimes

@exio4

1

how do I make my game not a slideshow

1:15 PM

totk

Egdarska

@exio4

mood

0/̵͇̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ wys

how do I make my game not a slideshow

It's one of the heaviest games to run in Yuzu. So, without knowing your specs, I'd wager to guess your CPU isn't up for the task. If it isn't running at 25-30 fps at native resolution, you're better off just playing it on your Switch.

deadlybydsgn

It's one of the heaviest games to run in Yuzu. So, without knowing your specs, I'd wager to guess your CPU isn't up for the task. If it isn't running at 25-30 fps at native resolution, you're better off just playing it on your Switch.

it is it just drops to 1 fps every 5 seconds or fighting

Nobody can help diagnose you without knowing your hardware or settings (edited)

3:36 PM

What's your CPU? How much ram? What GPU are you running? etc. (edited)

deadlybydsgn

What's your CPU? How much ram? What GPU are you running? etc. (edited)

Ryzen 5 5600x, Nvidia 3070, 16gb

deadlybydsgn

Nobody can help diagnose you without knowing your hardware or settings (edited)

defualt then I changed the thing from high to default in advanced

3:46 PM

join vc if u want to talk to me bout it

Nah, I'm at work

3:54 PM

Your specs should run it pretty well, so that's puzzling. The usual recommendations are to increase your Windows page file size and then scrutinize your Yuzu settings

deadlybydsgn

Nah, I'm at work

alright I will try figure some things and do the log thing someone told me to do a few hours ago

Yeah. The peeps in the totk channel should have a better idea after you post a log

Huh. Looks like my MSI board from the Microcenter bundle has its first oddity. Bluetooth disappears every once in a while

2:29 AM

Friggin’ MSI

mediatek?

Get those driver updates

if it is mediatek just throw it away

3:11 AM

and buy a new card

3:11 AM

mediatek is e-waste

It's built-in to the motherboard

1

rip

3:13 AM

on the plus side, a chinese usb dongle will most likely be beter

Moonlacer

It's built-in to the motherboard

usually socketed

I have Mediatek, works fine here

Mediatek wifi/bluetooth is basically as bad as it gets

3:13 AM

it's the equivalent of raytracing on a RX 6500 XT

Wi-Fi 6E driver is sometimes a bit slow to start, but otherwise just fine

you are better off giving up

3:14 AM

unstable piece of trash that should never been sold to consumers

3:14 AM

hell, even manufacturing it was a mistake, shouldn't have left the goddamn labs, it has no reason to exist

3:14 AM

6500 XT could exist as a display adapter

3:14 AM

eventually

3:14 AM

MTK wifi/bt just no

cries in mid-2000s netbook

my broadcom wifi in the netbook in 2010 was more stable than mediatek is for most people i've talked with

150mbps wifi never failed

you actually might have trouble getting 50 Mbps on mediatek wifi in some configurations

3:16 AM

where an intel card will do >500

No idea why only Intel gets how to do ac and newer

in the same computer

exio4

you actually might have trouble getting 50 Mbps on mediatek wifi in some configurations

50 (edited)

3:16 AM

my fucking internet can be faster than that, on fucking 2.4GHz (edited)

3:16 AM

it's insane

3:18 AM

i wish that google's gemini app ran on macos

i wish all of google apps worked anywhere besides their trash and windows

>windows

3:22 AM

they don't work on windows lol

they advertise it at beset kek

3:23 AM

found how to disable turbo on the kernel, bye bye (edited)

3:24 AM

literally changing a 0 to a 1 in a file, parts where linux shines

GoldenX86_64

they advertise it at beset kek

no

3:25 AM

google shit has like, 0 support on windows

3:26 AM

the exception is youtube at best

https://www.techpowerup.com/319402/amd-ryzen-7-8840u-hawk-point-apu-exceeds-expectations-in-10-w-tdp-gaming-test

yea the phawx showed promising results

3:28 AM

the fuck

3:28 AM

its local shit lmao

shintel meanwhile still losing to adreno 600 GPUs

F llava doesn't work

wonder how good the switch 2 soc would be at low tdps

3:30 AM

3:31 AM

on macOS you can't use int8 models so ram usage is crazy

what's the power consumption while running the model?

so it used like 24gb ish of memory lol

GoldenX86_64

what's the power consumption while running the model?

on the gpu? or the whole laptop?

whole

3:32 AM

without turbo, i'm getting 6-9w in discord, linux win

plugged in, peaked to 88W for a split second, dropped down to 62W within 5 seconds

3:33 AM

i am plugged in, though

abusing that poor charger

no, it's fine

my shitty realtek wifi runs like trash with the wifi in this cabin, solution, connect with the phone and hotspot bigbrain

  Name:    96W USB-C Power Adapter
  Manufacturer:    Apple Inc.

3:35 AM

this is the screen brightness i'm using, but with a terminal / dark mode, so the backlight isn't as powered on as it could be

3:36 AM

so... 350 nits? 400?

3:36 AM

max is 500

is it hot?

i don't have the higher range enabled because it's midnight

GoldenX86_64

is it hot?

no

3:36 AM

the laptop is rated for 1000 nits sustained

3:36 AM

1600 peak

3:37 AM

oh btw @GoldenX86_64 - the m*c has temperature sensors on the whole display assembly

3:37 AM

and it keeps track of every miniLED - the peak can be sustained with cooling in theory

i mean the charger kek

oh

3:37 AM

no

3:38 AM

its just generic warm

so if you manage to add some massive heatsink to the display, it could be a permanent flashlight

exio "generic warm" = 95C

GoldenX86_64

so if you manage to add some massive heatsink to the display, it could be a permanent flashlight

when im vibing at 3am i just use the watch

Egdarska

exio "generic warm" = 95C

no, i grabbed it, it's not that warm

the 65w of my laptop gets quite warm

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

i did NOTHING since then

3:39 AM

"memory used" is back to 27 gb lol

3:39 AM

oh wait i forgor

3:39 AM

its the llm shit i tried for you @GoldenX86_64

3:39 AM

smh

i rember

asked the llm to write a reply to @Egdarska

one must (edited)

it was writing

3:41 AM

>throttling >improved performance

3:42 AM

and people are worried about AI taking over

i mean

3:43 AM

the AI is delusional

3:43 AM

but the key is that if you have no means of throttling - you must design your cooling and Vf curves to be as conservative as possible

3:44 AM

so, on a fixed cooling capacity - without throttling, you lose performance

3:44 AM

a phone is a very good example of that

so when are we attaching a noctua to your miniled

1

if it couldn't throttle, it'd have to run at their steady state from the get go; and would require performance to go down by 75+% in some cases

3:45 AM

moving to antartica

if i can add fans to a broken display, a noctua should be easier

3:46 AM

my dad preferred to use the gigabyte at 60hz with hdr instead of sdr at 120 hz

3:46 AM

granted, his 30 years old kvm switch adds like 100ms of delay

exio4

if it couldn't throttle, it'd have to run at their steady state from the get go; and would require performance to go down by 75+% in some cases

if you have a workload that is somewhat demanding on 1 thread, and then must fire up the gpu for a split second without letting the cpu core chill - without the power envelope being blown throttle the roof for that time you are gonna be basically starving both components

3:47 AM

i do think it has been taken too far tho

3:47 AM

case in point, intel and amd

exio4

if it couldn't throttle, it'd have to run at their steady state from the get go; and would require performance to go down by 75+% in some cases

"1 single core - 30W" "8 cores fully loaded - 50W"

moar coars was always the way

no

exio4

mediatek?

RZ616 onboard

just keep adding coars

yeah, e-waste @deadlybydsgn

3:48 AM

throw it away

3:48 AM

it's amd rebranded mediatek

if you don't have a whitelist, get an intel ax210

1

3:48 AM

enjoy true wifi

Moonlacer

Get those driver updates

Everything’s up to date as far as I know

Mediatek is incompetent at this

rodrigo has an ax200 in his laptop rocks, but has a fucking intel moment, it doesn't support hotspot

3:48 AM

the 210 does

GoldenX86_64

moar coars was always the way

what for

for coars

no, I mean, what for

I have a spare Asus BT adapter from the old machine. Hmm. But I wonder if I can fix it or if it’ll keep being random

FX was right, moar coars all the way

Apple does 2+4 on mobile and they have huge Ws

3:49 AM

2+4 vibing alongside >8 cores

well wait, stop, 2+4 of real cores

3:49 AM

instead of 4 meh ones, 4 trash ones and one passable one

Apple's biggest lead is on the e-cores

3:50 AM

funnily enough

iirc the big big core on the sd8g2 is comparable to the e-core of the iphone

3:50 AM

making the regular p-cores of the sd8g2 worse (edited)

no

3:50 AM

sd 8g2 is much faster

and making the e-cores something that make even the og atom feel proud kek

the e-core's strength comes from how insanely efficient they are, they are still much slower - usually 20-30% of the p-core on the laptops

3:51 AM

so they will take 4-5 times longer for a workload

3:51 AM

but still use 3 times less energy

3:51 AM

like, the whole e-core cluster on this m*c uses <500mW

3:51 AM

lol

3:52 AM

i sent the power consumption to a few places and they asked me which core was which, and seeing 200mW on a whole 4 core cluster was like

3:52 AM

wtf

200mW on any computing at this level is insane

ill run cinebench on the e-cores

3:55 AM

meow

GoldenX86_64

200mW on any computing at this level is insane

something cool as well

3:58 AM

Apple's e-cores are on their own "CCX"

3:58 AM

so their memory accesses don't clash with the p-cores' cache, etc

3:58 AM

intel & amd should learn that, so the OS can run backups and shit without dying

can the e cores run crysis?

running cinebench r23 on the e-cores holy shit

4:00 AM

i've never seen them use this much power lol

Egdarska

can the e cores run crysis?

i mean, yeah?

4:01 AM

why not

4:02 AM

e-cores using 2.5W im so confused rn

4:03 AM

its so slow tho

4:03 AM

smh

4:03 AM

cinebench r24 is so annoying tbh

4:04 AM

i miss when cinebench took a few minutes to run

4:04 AM

CPU Power: 3180 mW CPU Power: 3650 mW CPU Power: 2584 mW CPU Power: 1689 mW CPU Power: 1607 mW CPU Power: 4158 mW CPU Power: 2686 mW CPU Power: 2386 mW CPU Power: 3328 mW CPU Power: 1928 mW

4:04 AM

power consumption off the CPU cores, cinebench on the e-cores (edited)

4:04 AM

not the display, keyboard, etc

exio4

intel & amd should learn that, so the OS can run backups and shit without dying

afaik they do it that way to dump core data to l3 and reduce inter-core latency

GoldenX86_64

afaik they do it that way to dump core data to l3 and reduce inter-core latency

different tradeoffs

4:07 AM

apple does it because they're efficiency brained, and consider the e-cores somewhat separate

4:08 AM

idk if windows has io throttling as well?

no clue there

4:08 AM

but i like apple's approach for laptops there

like, if you ran time machine - apple would send it to the e-cores, and throttle the I/O to avoid trigger higher power stages

4:08 AM

so you can run a backup in the background using .. like 2W tops? or so of total power

4:09 AM

yes, it'd be faster if they just used the p-cores, and let it max the ssd

4:09 AM

but you're on a laptop, how much energy it uses is more relevant than power for most users

agreed, battery life first, given the experience is passable enough

4:10 AM

man, no turbo, power efficiency mode, 5w windows wtf are you doing with background tasks

4:12 AM

the only things i really miss are a decent ips screen and better gpu drivers now

4:13 AM

hell, i'll take a va on a laptop without issue

youre still bottlenecked by uh

4:13 AM

battery capacity

4:13 AM

do you have usb-c input

not charging

it's just an usb 3.1 c

4:14 AM

or 3.2, no clue, but doesn't has anything besides being reversible

when i want more battery life i use a 22.5W battery pack

4:14 AM

(Switch branded lol)

kek

4:14 AM

based

4:14 AM

mandatory getting a decent usb c feature list in the next laptop i saw usb c on this one and didn't google enough (not like vendors even care to provide it)

GoldenX86_64

mandatory getting a decent usb c feature list in the next laptop i saw usb c on this one and didn't google enough (not like vendors even care to provide it)

lenovo has pretty good spec sheets

but i doubt my next laptop will have 4 usb ports, i will miss that for sure gotta love not needing a dock everywhere

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/Legion/Lenovo_Legion_5_15ACH6/Lenovo_Legion_5_15ACH6_Spec.pdf

https://switchchargers.com/anker-powercore-13400-nintendo-switch-edition-review/ this one

Paul

Anker PowerCore 13400 Nintendo Switch Edition Review

A unique power bank, Anker doesn't have a non-Nintendo version with the same specs. Works well for other, small USB PD devices. It is a favorite to keep in a Switch carrying case.

this is the old one but that's what they give you

4:16 AM

this charger is enough for like 6 ish hours of vibing from 100% to 0%

4:17 AM

on top of the built-in battery

4:17 AM

meow

4:17 AM

usb-c charging is imo a killer feature

4:17 AM

a laptop without usb-c charging may as well be considered defective lol

4:18 AM

but i understand gaming crap can't really do it

gaming crap can't do it because muh 400w chargers but anything regular should be mandatory by now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpOYr_o8LW8

Sanguine Skull Ch.

Doctor Breen Hates Gaming Laptops (AI Voice Meme)

GoldenX86_64

gaming crap can't do it because muh 400w chargers but anything regular should be mandatory by now

anything <240W could do it now

4:19 AM

smh

well yes and no

4:20 AM

no one wants to do 240w cables kek

4:20 AM

but 120w should be enough for anything, and doable

its not just that

4:20 AM

its that it'll cost $10 more on the overall product

4:21 AM

and muh performance/value charts will look bad once you add $10 for the charger, $5 for the cable, etc

4:21 AM

most of the PC market is built on the race to the bottom

like my laptop

4:21 AM

the only good part it has is the keyboard and the cpu kek

65% sRGB is ok because if we had put a 100% sRGB display, we'd not sell the laptop

4:22 AM

low-end pc market be like

exio4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpOYr_o8LW8

i don't own a usb-c charger capable of powering this monstrosity

exio4

65% sRGB is ok because if we had put a 100% sRGB display, we'd not sell the laptop

daily reminder the deck did the same kek

my usb-c charger is only 96W

GoldenX86_64

daily reminder the deck did the same kek

yes

GoldenX86_64

daily reminder the deck did the same kek

it's not that high

4:23 AM

45% at best

the deck is more justified though, they did a killer product on a stupidly low price

4:23 AM

plus the oled solved all issues

alright fellas

4:24 AM

how do i copy a file to my windows pc

from where

i don't think it's ever justified if the purpose is gaming

nvm

also counterpoint, the switch screen

the only real excuse for Valve is that it was too risky

4:25 AM

ther price isn't a concern

if nintendo's bottom of the barrel solution makes yours look like shit you fucked up (edited)

they did a lot of custom engineering already, and an OLED screen required to be custom, and implement HDR on linux which is a lot of effort

true, the ips screen of the switch, even the lite, is excellent

but they could have gotten an IPS that wasn't e-waste

wonder why they didn't just use the ips screen of the switch

4:26 AM

since it seems they are using a variant of the oled one

literally just buy whatever nintendo buys

wifi go brr

i doubt the extra 80 vertical pixels make much difference

mac has samba

ye im using it

they don't plus there are games that hate 16:10

i had already set it up

i don't get why they aimed for 1280x800

4:27 AM

was that the only part available for their budget?

i'm still 100% convinced they bought old screens from a failed 2013 chinese tablet factory

4:27 AM

they were all 1280x800

lets gooo

heh true

4:28 AM

and 45% sRGB is a genuine cheap tablet moment

1280x800 makes sense imo

4:28 AM

720p + power info

that's a good use yeah

which its a cope to worry about but

4:28 AM

uh its a pc handheld theyre all cope

but 40 pixels top and bottom is a lot of info kek

its taking forever to copy those goddamn files

4:29 AM

cringe ass speeds

4:29 AM

pff, better than my realtek

this is WiFi 5 lol

4:31 AM

i think the laptop does 6e

4:31 AM

i should upgrade when i have money

a good 6e router is quite expensive

yeah but

4:32 AM

uh

TP-Link AXE5400

i'd be bottlenecked by my gigabit connection

and a meh one is just wifi 5 speeds for more money

4:32 AM

routers turned silently into a money trap kek

time to buy a mac mini as router

4:33 AM

(M2 Mac Mini has WiFi 6e)

would be cheaper than some routers, ironically

4:33 AM

at least here

i'm getting about 20MBps with kde connect

4:33 AM

from laptop to phone

4:34 AM

so 160Mbps wack

i get 50 with it, and with google nearby share

phones have slow wifis

4:34 AM

my phone only does like 400 Mbps at best iirc

iirc it does 200 phone to phone

it's also a shitty isp router

i swear to fucking god

4:36 AM

>AirDrop cancelled

4:36 AM

"not enough storage"

4:37 AM

>50GB left

4:37 AM

what the fuck

wtf

it just werks

i think its because it doesnt count icloud storage or something

4:38 AM

i love sata ssds

YEAH LET'S GOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo................

@exio4

4:43 AM

fsr2 performance with dlss performance at 1080p

4:44 AM

i forgot you can do that with the dlss mod

Straight back to Xbox 360

i wonder

4k gaming on a laptop

fsr2the_rescue

exio4

i love sata ssds

i'd still kill for 550MB/s file transfer speeds in general in fairness im also running a system that only has SATA so.

LukeTheVideoGamer

i'd still kill for 550MB/s file transfer speeds in general in fairness im also running a system that only has SATA so.

im used to nvme

it’s mostly load times

5:35 AM

lm studio off the nvme is fine

5:35 AM

but sata makes it slow as fuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Q-SDlM-4g RT iGPU gameplay

RandomGaminginHD

Ray Tracing with No Graphics Card

5:52 AM

huh, discord blacklisted the embed, kek

Works here

5:52 AM

funny it can do it

5:58 AM

i would stick only to reflections, but the little thing can do it and better than a 6500 xt

the duality of man

GoldenX86_64

funny it can do it

i personally can't wait until AMD gets a proper upscaler

bet you budget for the scaler is over

the community needs to stop coping tbh

better than the 6500xt isn't an accomplishment

well the 3050 6gb couldn't even pass that

"540p60 lows" is fine for an iGPU if your upscaler isn't trash

but the 3050 is like a 3030

exio4

"540p60 lows" is fine for an iGPU if your upscaler isn't trash

fite me gamers

i'm doing 60fps 4k upscaled smug

6:00 AM

fsr2 + dlss

DLSS Performance at 1080p is 100% "usable", if the alternative was >720p30

Egdarska

fsr2 + dlss

wait what

6:00 AM

those two are separate

6:00 AM

dont you mean fsr1

it looks worse than 1080p dlss quality

they're both taas

exio4

dont you mean fsr1

no, re4 with the dlss mod

6:01 AM

you can do fsr2 and then dlss

oh replacing fsr with dlss?

it looks like shit

you... what?

no, both

how?

https://discord.com/channels/398318088170242053/729830357666496583/1210087691648245830

no, i mean

6:01 AM

what is fsr2 + dlss2

the mod is not replacing fsr, it's applied separately wit REframework

fsr on top of dlss

technically you can do fsr2 and then apply fsr2 on top again

looks as it sounds

if you hate your eyes

but dlss doesn't give you motion vectors on the output

6:02 AM

hmmm maybe it does actually

6:02 AM

for motion blur

no, it does fsr2, then the mod grabs the motion vectors and reuses them

its cursed got it

so it goes fsr2>dlss

i don't get the "AI cores" of RDNA3 if you at least don't make FSR3 use them

there's other uses, but yeah, not having a dlss competitor is dumb

i expected AMD would release an "FSR+" for RDNA3 hardware

6:03 AM

we got nothing

but fsr2 looks good bro

it doesn't i'm with exio here but it works on low end stuff and that's what matters

6:04 AM

if you use a 7900xtx with it instead of xess, you're a fool

lel i know

exio4

"540p60 lows" is fine for an iGPU if your upscaler isn't trash

Android users have entered the chat

but we have users in this very server arguing that fsr2 competes with dlss

6:04 AM

which is just lol

GoldenX86_64

Hey when you have the time could you helpme with installing aan NSP?

lmao evem

it competes in the same market sense only kek

srgeppi

Hey when you have the time could you helpme with installing aan NSP?

a game update or DLC?

GoldenX86_64

a game update or DLC?

Game?

6:05 AM

sorry its my first time

6:05 AM

not sure

Moonlacer

Android users have entered the chat

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001316442962153535/1209660087329620088/RPReplay_Final1708472634.MP4?ex=65e7babf&is=65d545bf&hm=c7c293a9db40432dadb0e0f1f3b853d626cfd23fe031ad58f1ec5e1d78acff76&

you don't install games on yuzu, you point to the folder where the dump is

6:05 AM

you only install updates and DLCs

native warframe port on ios

So I have a NSP file. when I drag it into YUZU it crashes. if I add via Nand its file failed.

exio4

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001316442962153535/1209660087329620088/RPReplay_Final1708472634.MP4?ex=65e7babf&is=65d545bf&hm=c7c293a9db40432dadb0e0f1f3b853d626cfd23fe031ad58f1ec5e1d78acff76&

Does the stutter happen IRL?

phone was fast charging and overheating from 35C weather so its a worst case

Moonlacer

Does the stutter happen IRL?

what do you mean?

oh damn, first comment is right, this is way faster than a 1660 doing RT kek

6:07 AM

pure compute RT lost to only denoising compute

Moonlacer

Does the stutter happen IRL?

how would it not happen irl

Thought it may be recording issues

lol no

Could also be that Discord is trash

6:08 AM

Ah, RIP

you could see later

6:08 AM

it freezes for a few seconds

6:08 AM

and i get a notification

An ok game made unplayable

which i move aside

6:09 AM

while the game is still frozen

Uh oh

low end gaming moment

the game runs worse than on switch

6:10 AM

the port is early days

Time to work with t895 to get yuzu working better with 16:9 displays for the "docked" experience

GoldenX86_64

low end gaming moment

its worse than that

6:12 AM

shader compilation stuttering all over the place

6:12 AM

and has pop in issues

6:13 AM

load a mission and see objects textures load in front of you over a few seconds (edited)

Can only imagine how it runs on Android, the "unoptimized" platform

@exio4

im on my phone rn

dlss quality, dlss quality + fsr2 quality, fsr2 quality

6:15 AM

fsr2 quality is uh

i personally was excited for fsr2

6:16 AM

but like

it would probably look better just rendering 1080p and upscaling on the display

i thought

it was a building block

6:16 AM

not the final release

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3ngrB1Jpqp/?igsh=NjZiM2M3MzIxNA==

nvidiageforce

Is the GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER FASTER than an RTX 3090? Find out in this episode of GeForce: Fact or Fiction

Likes

1730

it is faster actually lol

wait, fsr2 quality is 1440p lmao (edited)

you can find some places where raw bandwidth takes over or capacity bottlenecks you

Egdarska

wait, fsr2 quality is 1440p lmao (edited)

try performance

i don't hate my eyes

6:19 AM

if dlss was done before fsr2 it might have a chance of looking decent

6:19 AM

because fsr2 would be getting a really nice image

6:19 AM

but as it is, dlss has to try to fix whatever fsr did

try dlss vs fsr i mean

oh lol

at performance

6:20 AM

1080 to 4K

so 1080p>4k

guess which is which

i wanna mention

6:29 AM

im on a 1440p monitor

6:29 AM

and that is not using all of the screen

6:29 AM

and theres still a massive IQ difference lol

the detail on the jacket is just gone

6:32 AM

i guess that answers the "fsr2 is good for 4k" cope

fsr2 is never good

the only real advantage is that doing any dlss>4k on a 3060 lowers the frame rate a lot

6:33 AM

but at that point just play at 1080p

Egdarska

the only real advantage is that doing any dlss>4k on a 3060 lowers the frame rate a lot

uhh, that might your mobile 3060 the most tbh

i dunno, it has more tensor cores than the desktop card

6:34 AM

and it consistently benchmarks the same or higher

nah, i mean

6:35 AM

it should have a 2 ish ms frametime cost

6:35 AM

(1080p => 2160p)

i think that tracks, it tops out at like 80fps regardless of settings when doing that

fair

6:36 AM

i usually target >=60 if i do 4k

i'd just take 1080p dlaa instead of struggling with 4k dlss

try 1600p + DLSS Quality + bilinear as the last stage

but i'm doing dlss quality 1080p instead lol

yeah, i mean

laptop screen plus freesync

6:38 AM

i'll take the frames any day

i just think dlss at higher resolution is an insanely good deal

6:38 AM

if you are a resolution snob on a budget, DLSS is much better IQ than trying to cope with any other upscaler

yeah, if i were playing on a large tv i'd probably do dlss to 4k

and still looks better than the OG resolution

6:38 AM

3060 12G is a 4K + DLSS Performance card if you so desire

6:39 AM

is it "as good as native", fuck no it isn't

too bad nvidia scammed me out of 6GB

native would need a 4080 tho

i think in most cases dlss is only obviously not native when compared side by side

6:39 AM

specially with modern games being blurry/noisy as fuck

6:40 AM

dlss gets rid of a lot of that noise too

6:40 AM

so in some ways it's a straight upgrade over native

DLSS is insane

6:40 AM

like, conceptually, we're getting free-AA

lemme see if i saved those twinknocchio screenshots of the hair

i played some older games not long ago and they looked ~sharp~ yeah

6:41 AM

but you need to run them at 5K to get proper anti-aliased results (edited)

6:42 AM

and dlss has to deal with the undersample modern effects all games do lol

not to mention they had simple geometry

6:42 AM

mfs be like msaa, my brother in christ most aliasing today is not even on the geometry

i can notice performance on 1440p with dlss but balanced or quality? only when looking for it

I actually wanna see what NVIDIA cooks for their next-gen temporal upscaling

6:42 AM

imagine DLSS, but they make it four times as demanding lol

fake normals

because the 50 series is just that good

lol, i forgot i uninstalled lies of p

Egdarska

mfs be like msaa, my brother in christ most aliasing today is not even on the geometry

reading papers on anti-aliasing from a whileback

6:43 AM

its funny

it stopped launching, thanks microshit store

like it feels funny to me that now nvidia is like "we should spend a fuckton of compute of a neural network to pick samples"

6:44 AM

and it works

6:44 AM

like anti-aliasing was a fucking art

i still haven't forgiven nvidia for setting fxaa loose on the world

crytek's proper anti-aliasing method was a spatial supersampler + temporal supersampler + sub-pixel aware postprocessing filter

6:45 AM

they legit were like

cryengine 3 had amazing IQ for the time

6:45 AM

i'll die mad ue4 won

"we need to get data somehow, let's use MSAA, but that's not enough, so we use some temporal data, but we can't use too much or it blurs the shit out of the image & has ghosting, but if we do post-processing it is too blurry"

6:45 AM

so they had to legit just... use everything

6:46 AM

btw @Egdarska are you excited for reprojection when/if it happens

6:46 AM

meow

perhaps

6:47 AM

i don't know how good it will be on a normal full fov screen

6:47 AM

but for certain games it could be good

I feel like if there's a company that can make it work

6:48 AM

it's NVIDIA

i still love this game as an example of cryengine 3

or apple, ironically

because it clearly looks like an xbone launch title

frame gen is sick, but it has an input lag penalty - but it shows what AI can hallucinate with good data

but it also shows advanced techniques that didn't become common until way later

Egdarska

i still love this game as an example of cryengine 3

this is insanely sharp

GoldenX86_64

or apple, ironically

I dunno

6:50 AM

Apple is very much focused on iOS, and I don't see them having the compute for it soon lol

6:50 AM

while NVIDIA can like

6:50 AM

just leverage Tensor™️

have you seen the reshade motion extimation shaders?

if we go off compute per transistor, you basically have:

CPUs (low density, lots of resources spent on keeping these very scarce resources fed on overly complex workloads)
GPUs (medium density, lots of resources, but they are still quite general purpose)
Tensors (high density, an order of magnitude more compute, easily - but extremely hard to leverage)

Egdarska

have you seen the reshade motion extimation shaders?

nope

they "work"

i have seen so many people say FSR2 proves that DLSS doesn't need tensor cores

6:52 AM

and it's such a cope

lol

like, @Egdarska you wanna laugh at something?

yeah, those vectors are crappy, you need insane quality levels to make them acceptable and that tanks performance

my 2060 super has more Tensor Compute™️ available than the 7900 XTX has any compute (edited)

lol

it's insanely hard to leverage it, of course

6:53 AM

you need to write the code to live inside caches

i bet those temporal reshade effects could be really good if they could use rtx hardware

the OFA stuff?

yeah

NVIDIA has an SDK

6:53 AM

you can use it

can you distribute it?

it's likely that just nobody has done it yet

Egdarska

can you distribute it?

I think so

maybe it's too hard idk

maybe reshade's hooks don't allow for the logic needed

the one i used was mcfly's motion estimation, there's a pseudo "taa" that can be used naively on any game

6:55 AM

but it doesn't have jitter so it mostly helps with stuff like grass

yeah one of the first things im doing if i get free time + a 40 series gpu

6:55 AM

is to do try to do OFA on more shit

and it's blurry as fuck, but like, in some games that's preferable

and see what temporal algorithms do with it

i hate shimmery as fuck grass

i love grass

you super sample it and it just looks shimmery but in 4k

the reason i love grass is that its the thing that fuckTAA always ignores

lol

you see people say

6:56 AM

"broo this game did it so much better"

6:56 AM

>look at youtube gameplay, at 1440p, at compressed 720p

6:56 AM

>grass still shimmers

6:57 AM

yeah fam i don't think it did

i don't know if i'd been able to enjoy dragon quest 11 if it wasn't for the fact that you can force taa, even if it's kinda broken

6:57 AM

lemme grab a video real quick

also, i've seen the batman games as "proof games looked better"

lol

but i've yet to see the game running Native Resolution without a fuckton of aliasing

6:57 AM

and doesn't that also have TAA?

it's ue3 so

oh

6:58 AM

it's too old

6:58 AM

its just like

but it uses deferred rendering so you can't use msaa lmao

I can accept aliasing in simpler geometry

you could in the older ones

6:58 AM

arkham knight, which is the one used as example, is an ue3 game where they modified the engine a lot to make it more "modern"

exio4

I can accept aliasing in simpler geometry

if you have simple geometry, aliasing is lowkey part of the charm

yeah, and you can smaa it away

yup

6:59 AM

but on modern games... just no

6:59 AM

give up

6:59 AM

lol

smaa on foliage is kinda not good

6:59 AM

also, most games only do color smaa, not depth

6:59 AM

so foliage is basically untouched

iirc crytek's cares for a lot of things there

7:00 AM

but still, there's a whole ass generation of games where you check them and they always have aliasing

7:00 AM

you render them at 8K and its like

7:00 AM

still aliased somehow

7:00 AM

specially early pbr games

7:00 AM

have you seen alien isolation, the original release?

no

they used taa and smaat2x, and both look shit, because they're done after the barrel distortion

7:01 AM

they fixed it for the switch release, so it unironically looks better than the ps4/pc version

7:01 AM

and they never backported it

i'm not in the camp that taa is objectively the best thing to have ever happened to gaming, i just think that people are crazy in thinking you can just not use TAA for the games we've got now

7:02 AM

if we want the games we've got today/last decade, rendering them at "proper resolutions" is deranged

7:02 AM

I turned off AA on cyberpunk

7:02 AM

cranked the settings up, so they are on the highest resolution

7:03 AM

rendered at 4K, downsampled to 1080p

7:03 AM

and it was more aliased than 540p

7:03 AM

and you had similar fine detail in still shoots

7:03 AM

with less aliasing

7:03 AM

yeah, dlss performance, from 540p, didnt look great

7:04 AM

but it also had my gpu running at like 50%, using 100W and running at 80+ fps

7:04 AM

while 4K to 1080p ran at 15

7:04 AM

and this was an anti-aliasing comparison

7:06 AM

@Egdarska https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Makigai_MaiMai_P126

Makigai MaiMai P126

The MaiMai P126 is a vehicle manufactured by Makigai in Cyberpunk 2077. This variant of the base model has an improved horse power and maximum speed for longer travels. The most visible...

7:06 AM

the car has those thin lines on the back

7:06 AM

when i tried it, 1080p + DLSS Performance resolved them better than 4K (AA off) downsampled to 1080p

7:07 AM

when i change the quality to 2 that's what the game originally looks like with fxaa

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

just supersample

lel

exio4

the car has those thin lines on the back

this is fucking funny, i've gotten so used to them that they're the benchmark i use for when i've gone too far with upscaling

i think ive just never seen any actual good anti-aliasing in my life cuz i really do not like most anti-aliasing techniques, especially shit like FXAA

exio4

the car has those thin lines on the back

dlss is amazing at resolving tiny details that don't even fully show in the raw render

7:09 AM

did i show you those re4 screens with the rails?

nope

LukeTheVideoGamer

i think ive just never seen any actual good anti-aliasing in my life cuz i really do not like most anti-aliasing techniques, especially shit like FXAA

if you can experience DLAA

they're just blobs in the shot with no AA

it's peak anti-aliasing right now

exio4

if you can experience DLAA

at like 30mbps on GeForce Now

LukeTheVideoGamer

at like 30mbps on GeForce Now

F

7:09 AM

know anybody with an RTX card?

7:09 AM

IRL

exio4

nope

one person but i don't have their contact because they're actually my mom's friend's husband

look at those rails on the top left

slip into their dms and rizz them up for a demo

more like near leon's head to the left

7:10 AM

they're just unconnected black spots in the raw render

uhh that looks quite blurry blown up on my screen

7:11 AM

wait

and that's dlss quality, so 720p vs the raw 1080p render

just saw the res

7:11 AM

nvm

LukeTheVideoGamer

one person but i don't have their contact because they're actually my mom's friend's husband

(he did actually lmk one time if i had the money he'd sell me his old 2080 Ti and first gen Threadripper platform, separately, but that was like two years ago now)

yeah

7:12 AM

720p is less than half the pixels

7:12 AM

iirc

7:12 AM

its funny

yeah

45% or something

resolution is crazy

LukeTheVideoGamer

(he did actually lmk one time if i had the money he'd sell me his old 2080 Ti and first gen Threadripper platform, separately, but that was like two years ago now)

nah, no need to buy the rig

7:12 AM

i mostly mean to check dlaa

going from 100% vertical resolution to 90% is like 20% less pixels

i personally never use dlaa, i'm poor tho

isn't half the pixel count of 1080p like 810p or some shit

resolution is weird

exio4

nah, no need to buy the rig

nah i know, just an anecdotal comment

1

also, i need more monitors

7:13 AM

ideally like 7

7:13 AM

F

i ended up personally passing on the 2080 Ti since it was apparently an AIO liquid cooled variant and i am not a fan of liquid cooling.

exio4

ideally like 7

laptop, mac, phone, monitor, tv, deck, you're not that far off

GoldenX86_64

laptop, mac, phone, monitor, tv, deck, you're not that far off

no, thats the thing

7:14 AM

i want all of them, at once

the native taa at 1080p lol

for development

literally the same frame rate as dlaa

Egdarska

the native taa at 1080p lol

i dont need to zoom in to see how it like

7:14 AM

???? the detail

native taa

i have been rizzed by tech bob ross tho

7:15 AM

bryan catanzaro ❤️

7:15 AM

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/author/bcatanzaro/

Author: Bryan Catanzaro | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Bryan Catanzaro is vice president of Applied Deep Learning Research at NVIDIA, where he leads a team finding new ways to use AI to improve projects ranging from language understanding to computer…

7:15 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGKCrcNsVzo

NVIDIA GeForce

NVIDIA DLSS 3.5 | New Ray Reconstruction Enhances Ray Tracing with AI

dlaa

7:15 AM

you need to see this shit in motion tho, the native taa is cursed

exio4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGKCrcNsVzo

don't tell he ain't rizzin you with his ai-enhanced ray tracing

7:16 AM

i hope he's the next nvidia CEO

i honestly just wish that these fuckin nvidia GPUs were more accessible in the $200-$270 range new and not be an actually utter dogshit RTX 3050

yeah its sad that rn nvidia basically has not really focused on the lower end market

7:17 AM

anything below mid-range is just "buy used lol"

because like, they're good cards with good silicon! i just think there aren't any good entry level options for me, which leaves me with ARC and Radeon

or yea

Arc/Radeon if you can deal with ~the quirks~

i love quirks they piss me off but in the same way a really tough puzzle pisses me off

7:18 AM

once i figure it out, all my anger and stress just vanishes

the quirk is image quality being worse

i can't do basic tasks because of hardware issues lol, so quirky

7:18 AM

arc is the best option right now without a doubt

7:18 AM

for low end

exio4

the quirk is image quality being worse

if i can live with DLSS (or FSR!) 1080p over GeForce Now i can live with 1080p FSR Quality locally

i use xess on my deck

7:19 AM

fsr2 is fine for some games

7:19 AM

but if it fucks up, it fucks up hard

7:19 AM

xess is way more graceful (edited)

REngine's character rendering tho

XeSS/DLSS failing to upscale is "it looks blurry"

ringo looking scruffy as fuck

FSR2 is like TAA the implementation usually sucks dick but when it doesn't, it's a solid alternative to less accessible methods

well

7:20 AM

XeSS DP4a runs on almost anything modern

7:20 AM

and it's a giant leap in IQ

7:20 AM

over FSR2

fsr2 is only "good" if you literally can't run anything else

1

first XeSS version ran like shit tho

that's true, but i have played exactly one game that actually has XesS DP4a and it was Spider-Man Miles Morales

yeah, DLSS is the standard

if you have an ue4/5 game, the native upsampling will be better

7:21 AM

than fsr2

UE4 is a bit of a wash

7:21 AM

older UE4 exists

exio4

UE4 is a bit of a wash

you can force ue5 tsr

wut

yeah, i meant more like games after 4.26

TSR got backported to UE4 with 4.26

tsr is fire

7:21 AM

i've only tried it on deck tho

r.TemporalAA.Algorithm

it's how persona fans actually got good image quality when Atlus fucked up the settings menu in Persona 3 Reload

and r.TemporalAA.Upsampling

the biggest thing either way, is that all upscalers offer a tradeoff

put both on 1 and it's ue5 upsampling, almost

+ Image Quality
- Lower Perf gains

(edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

it's how persona fans actually got good image quality when Atlus fucked up the settings menu in Persona 3 Reload

(forced TAA by default btw, no in-game option to disable it)

it's still not as good, but way better than fsr2

unless you're on NVIDIA/Intel, and DLSS/XeSS XMX are your options

7:23 AM

which are extremely cheap compared to their IQ

no context posting

7:24 AM

i used to laugh at dlss because i first experienced dlss1

7:24 AM

now i just turn it on whenever it's available

7:24 AM

and look for a mod when it isn't

LukeTheVideoGamer

(forced TAA by default btw, no in-game option to disable it)

Persona 3 Reload is honestly a horrible port in terms of PC configuration. like, no joke, that menu has exactly three options of note: resolution scale (increments of 25%, between 50% and 200%), shadow quality (Low, Medium, High, no Off), and Reflections On/Off. oh, and if your GPU supports DXR, it defaults to using raytraced reflections, even if you want SSR for the better performance. why. thank god UE4 has good config file configuration

japanese devs using ue4 be like

if you want ssr for better performance on a game like persona you bought the wrong gpu brand tbf

Egdarska

japanese devs using ue4 be like

nah, Octopath Traveler II uses UE4.27 just like Persona 3 Reload, and was developed by a Japanese dev, Square Enix, and that settings menu is LEAGUES better

it's octopath traveler tho

7:26 AM

it's not like it needs settings

exio4

if you want ssr for better performance on a game like persona you bought the wrong gpu brand tbf

if i want SSR for better performance in a game like Persona it's because I have a GTX 1660 Ti and it for some fucking reason supports DXR on the driver level.

7:26 AM

(luckily i have a 1650 so im spared from RT)

uhhh

7:27 AM

doesn't the dxr layer have to be enabled manually

7:27 AM

also wack

i enable ssr high quality, ssgi, and gtao just to piss off exio

no joke, i legit have seen people with GTX 1660 Supers and Tis play P3R on launch day and think "hmm, the performance is rather bad!" only to find out that IT DEFAULTED TO RAY TRACED REFLECTIONS

7:28 AM

again, thank god for config file editing, since you can at least force SSR through there.

i didnt know they did that on 16 series gpus

7:28 AM

my bad

7:28 AM

i have seen complaints on rdna2 tho

i think it also effected GTX 1080 and 1080 Ti users since im pretty sure those cards also got DXR in a driver update a few years back, so yeah that's FUN.

i'm just sad

7:30 AM

i legit had copium, rdna3 was the architecture rework; 5+ years after turing

7:30 AM

they had seen turing happen

persona 3 reload doesn't have the best performance on PC in the first place (though i never had any trouble, ironically enough) so low end cards with minimal RT support getting decimated even further is not fun to watch

and they still didn't put even half-baked matrix cores on it, and their RT throughput is lower than goddamn turing

7:30 AM

like the fuck

7:30 AM

turing ??? is better architecturally????

7:30 AM

its fucking retro by now

honestly i think radeon users are huffing that copium in hope of the radeon division finally getting their Zen moment

fun one, had turbo disabled, 54° enabled it since i'm plugged in and i can use the extra ghz, 75°

turn down ur fans

it's not even noisy

exio4

i legit had copium, rdna3 was the architecture rework; 5+ years after turing

you forgot the amd factor

GoldenX86_64

it's not even noisy

no, for power consumption

RDNA4 for sure

if you disable boost, keep your fans at the lowest speed

7:32 AM

fix them there, and let it go to 70 ish degrees

next year will be the year of competent amd gpus, linux desktop, and switch 2 release

it'll use a bit more on leakage, but fans are an insane overhead if they run too much

the fan turns off on its own, with boost off it doesn't need the fan

Moonlacer

RDNA4 for sure

from what we know, rdna5 is the one™️

7:33 AM

rdna4 is iterative

7:33 AM

rdna5 is when microsoft told amd to fuck off and git gud

Moonlacer

RDNA4 for sure

RTX 50-series is gonna have to be extremely bad, or RDNA4 to be extremely great, if AMD wants to survive to next console gen

rdna4 bette bring some sort of software stack to the taable

LukeTheVideoGamer

RTX 50-series is gonna have to be extremely bad, or RDNA4 to be extremely great, if AMD wants to survive to next console gen

that's the funniest thing, amd doesn't even need to be great

7:33 AM

they just have to be competent and cheap

7:34 AM

like, not even "competent", just not shit, and priced accordingly (edited)

Spent all their money with RDNA3 on chiplet design, lol

that's true, that's why im considering a 6800 or 7700 XT over any 40-series GPU :)

7:34 AM

(or preferably, buy 30-series used on a discount if i can)

i have other needs, so i really need them to be not shit

i'm only gonna consider them when they're an upgrade over my current gpu

if you have the money for a 30 or 40 series, pick that kek

It was very evident when their top of the line card only saw about a 25-30% boost in performance over the last generation (edited)

any year now, only been waiting for 10

exio4

i'm only gonna consider them when they're an upgrade over my current gpu

see you in 2032

the rtx finewine train ain't stopping so far

that's the joke, by 2032 amd will have caught up to 2022 nvidia

I almost waited until the refresh until I saw all the issues with RDNA3

i honestly think that 40-series has exactly one decent value GPU right now: the 4070 Ti. everything else is either completely underperforming, overpriced, or in one particularly awful case, both

i know it won't happen, but it would be hilarious if nvidia came out with generic dlss framegen of lower quality for older rtx cards

sorry not the 4070 Ti

I waited until the refresh on RDNA2, partly because I wanted the absolute maximum performance that would fit in my case, and also because GPUs were unobtainium during most of it's lifespan

The 4070 Super

7:36 AM

fuck you Nvidia

like, imagine rtx framegen as shit as fsr3, but it works on any rtx card

7:36 AM

exio playing cyberpunk at 480p 80fps on a 2060 (edited)

so basically, an RTX equivalent to Fluid Motion Frames

"80FPS" or 80FPS?

both simultaneously

it's got reflex so kinda halfway

7:38 AM

he plays on a steamdeck, fake frames won't bother him

Egdarska

exio playing cyberpunk at 480p 80fps on a 2060 (edited)

i'm doing dlss performance + fsr3 at 1440p

7:38 AM

i'm reflex bottlenecked

7:38 AM

the display is 120 hz

7:38 AM

and reflex doesn't let you go over 120 hz

7:38 AM

so

i just wish there were easier ways to obtain shitty cheap frame gen on my shitty cheap GPU

7:39 AM

don't even gotta look good just gotta work ❗

so fsr3

i have a total of ZERO games with FSR3 support

If only it worked on your game™️

7:40 AM

Introducing AFMF

apparently the Lossless Scaling app has some shitty framegen built in but the app's $8 im not spending $8 on Frame Gen

i use the mod

LukeTheVideoGamer

apparently the Lossless Scaling app has some shitty framegen built in but the app's $8 im not spending $8 on Frame Gen

it's shit anyway

there's a free mod for fsr3 on 20/30 series gpus

Once it gets VSync support and an intensity slider, AFMF will be my preference

Egdarska

it's shit anyway

wow no way the shitty frame gen implementation is shit

exio4

there's a free mod for fsr3 on 20/30 series gpus

the game i mostly wanted it for, rat game 2, has camera update locked to 60fps

Egdarska

the game i mostly wanted it for, rat game 2, has camera update locked to 60fps

F?

unless you're getting perfect frametimes it's a stutery mess

Egdarska

the game i mostly wanted it for, rat game 2, has camera update locked to 60fps

WHAT

7:41 AM

THATS UNACCEPTABLE

basically the only dumb thing asobo did

7:41 AM

if you get perfect 120fps it looks fine because the camera is just jumping every 2 frames, but lol

i hate adhd

7:45 AM

im built different (wrong)

7:45 AM

also, exio have you seen asobo's previous games developed? lol

7:45 AM

it's quite a list

no

wot

the quality went up a bit after some time

7:47 AM

toy story 3 slapped though

i didnt play fancy games back then

7:47 AM

i had an intel atom netbook

7:47 AM

i kinda missed a big chunk of gaming shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JzO90qYzBc

Project Longplay

Toy Story 3 - Longplay | Wii

7:47 AM

they did this on the wii

aside from the CPU my current computer is the most powerful one ive ever had

it's not quite shin'en level, but it's kinda impressive

my most powerful computer is my laptop (edited)

7:48 AM

sad

mine too

7:48 AM

i don't have a desktop anymore

my desktop is so cringe

7:48 AM

i unironically dislike it

7:49 AM

5800x for web shit (work) is insanely slow next to apple silicon

7:49 AM

i have better performance on battery saver mode than the 5800x overclocked ???

i prefer desktops, since i can just as easily buy all the parts i need and assemble it myself, at the cost of power consumption, being stationary, and not having a built in display, keyboard, mouse, or microphone, but damn is the performance ever better than an equivalent priced (brand new) laptop

this laptop wins 0 awards in price/$

7:50 AM

negative awards at best

7:50 AM

still a sick machine

apple silicon would be way cooler to me if the GPUs actually got good (or if they let me USE MY OWN)

LukeTheVideoGamer

i prefer desktops, since i can just as easily buy all the parts i need and assemble it myself, at the cost of power consumption, being stationary, and not having a built in display, keyboard, mouse, or microphone, but damn is the performance ever better than an equivalent priced (brand new) laptop

maybe now

7:51 AM

although i don't know, if you're willing to slum it with amd cards maybe

LukeTheVideoGamer

apple silicon would be way cooler to me if the GPUs actually got good (or if they let me USE MY OWN)

look im sorry but you can put in as many features as u like but if a 3060 can outdo a $4000 macbook pro in gaming im not considering the graphics good on a mac

Good luck getting the game to run on Mac

bruh

7:52 AM

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/gaming-laptops/alienware-m18-gaming-laptop/spd/alienware-m18-r1-amd-laptop/useahctom18r1amd09

Alienware m18 Gaming Laptop – Laptop Computers | Dell USA

Shop the Alienware 18" high performance Gaming Laptop at Dell. Breathtaking, awe-inspiring visuals are made possible with NVIDIA GeForce RTX 40 Series graphics.

7:53 AM

$2800 for a laptop with an amd card

macbooks are cringe as fuck for gaming

7:53 AM

but if you bring up compute

what's the target demo here?

i mean, some solid enough ports are finally actually coming out of the woodworks... but not nearly enough for me to consider actually using Apple Silicon daily.

Egdarska

what's the target demo here?

Dell Alienware fans with too much money

LukeTheVideoGamer

Dell Alienware fans with too much money

not even

Egdarska

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/gaming-laptops/alienware-m18-gaming-laptop/spd/alienware-m18-r1-amd-laptop/useahctom18r1amd09

7900M gud

lol

exio4

but if you bring up compute

macOS + Apple Silicon has better compatibility than AMD

7:54 AM

and it uh

7:54 AM

outperforms the XTX at times

That 4070 being $800 cheaper makes no sense

Lemme see how the config changes

exio4

but if you bring up compute

compute is good im not denying that at all, shit's like 90W maximum with equivalent compute to shit that draws like 800W

unless it solves the issues with amd being useless for anything other than gaming it's not worth it

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-7900M-performance-debut-Alienware-m18-R1-laptop-review.771237.0.html

AMD Radeon RX 7900M performance debut: Alienware m18 R1 laptop review

AMD knocked it out of the park with its Ryzen series of mobile CPUs, but there's no question that its discrete mobile GPUs have been falling behind. The Radeon RX 7900M rights the ship by being just as powerful as the mobile RTX 4080 for hundreds of dollars less.

No way they ship a configuration with RAID 0

i know this is "cringe to bring up"

7:54 AM

but

i am unfortunately a very simple minded creature however. if my FPSes in video games, any of them, is worse than what i can get with a good laptop or desktop from not Apple, i will just fucking get that other laptop or desktop

LukeTheVideoGamer

i am unfortunately a very simple minded creature however. if my FPSes in video games, any of them, is worse than what i can get with a good laptop or desktop from not Apple, i will just fucking get that other laptop or desktop

thats fine

Moonlacer

Lemme see how the config changes

cpu, 7845h instead of 7895h

the amd laptop is uh

but lol, why would they put the better cpu on the amd card?

7:55 AM

and it's overkill anyway

i know, battery life, on a gaming laptop - is conceptually "cringe"

exio4

thats fine

it sucks because i love ARM and RISC processors! and i really do like macOS, all of its weird quirks aside! it just can't game to the same degree that better PC laptops or desktops can (and i squarely blame apple)

Not worth $800 more for that config

but the intel+nvidia version is doing 3x the battery life

May just be Dellalienware pricing, though

you can actually get a few hours in a pinch on the intel laptop

7:56 AM

3-4 hours? not impossible

7:56 AM

just don't use the dGPU

7:57 AM

it's really bad for 97Wh but like, it's fine, if you have to go between "sessions", or use it for web browsing/office shit

7:57 AM

3 hours is good enough™️ (not for me, but for the device)

seems about right

yes

7:57 AM

iirc it also got delisted in some markets

Apple Silicon MacBooks are actually, unironically, the closest thing to my ideal all-rounder computer, its LITERALLY just gaming that holds it back for me

apple silicon is cringe for value

There isn't an Apple alternative for nearly every app I use

i just don't get how it fails to run the hip benchmark (edited)

i love it, but its conceptually stupid to build a massive ass die, run it at 40W, and call it a day

Their laptops are efficiency beasts, there's no doubt about it

for value

i know driver differences and whatever, but if it runs on a vega 8

Maybe with Qualcomm on Windows machines we will see

the best combo rn is a nvidia desktop + mac laptop

7:58 AM

if you have money

7:58 AM

(i don't)

They better have a banging x86 to ARM compatibility layer, though

qualcomm on windows will be shit value

7:59 AM

there's a level of insanity around the PC community as if "try" you can get an apple silicon competitor without ruining value lol (edited)

7:59 AM

delusional takes go to r/amd i thought

i still can't get over that laptop

8:00 AM

they sent it for review to outlets

8:00 AM

non-working

you should have said it's an AMD laptop

Moonlacer

They better have a banging x86 to ARM compatibility layer, though

it's... existent.

but on the other hand i had completely forgotten that mobile gpu exists

it works, sometimes

8:01 AM

it's no Rosetta

WoA got a decent layer nowadays iirc

Egdarska

but on the other hand i had completely forgotten that mobile gpu exists

it's better left forgotten

it's pretty decent, but don't expect the best performance or compatibility

It'll have to get good soon when QC starts pushing chips out

8:02 AM

First generation will probably be terrible, of course

8:02 AM

Look at the 8G1

i think apple and microsoft should allow windows on arm to run on apple silicon #imo

apple doesn't disallow it

but they also don't explicitly allow it either :9

they don't need to

8:03 AM

the bootloader is unlocked

8:03 AM

they need to rizz apple to provide drivers/docu

8:03 AM

that's the hard part

lol

well, that, and also make sure it can actually, y'know, BOOT the damn thing in the first place too

even if you could, a lot of the Apple Magic™️ is a fuckton of software hacks

8:03 AM

they won't port their DSP to windows

Apple won't even willingly allow sideloading, so that's never happening

they never did in the bootcamp era

just reverse engineer it, how complex can the chips be? smug

intel macbooks sound like shit on windows

8:04 AM

switch to macOS and they get a glow up and now outperform the rest of the industry to this day

8:04 AM

(speakers)

8:04 AM

macbooks running intel was never a sane idea to begin with

microsoft needs to go back to the days of deliding and tracing the transistors by hand

Running Intel in a laptop was never sane

should be done by 2130

Moonlacer

Running Intel in a laptop was never sane

what were the alternatives?

8:05 AM

AMD's APUs?

exio4

macbooks running intel was never a sane idea to begin with

eh, it made sense back when it was first starting out. better performance per watt than PPC. there was never a G5 PowerBook or iBook, and then bam Core (2) Duo MacBooks!

i kinda liked how the macs used to look, the white ones with the motorized dvd slots

LukeTheVideoGamer

eh, it made sense back when it was first starting out. better performance per watt than PPC. there was never a G5 PowerBook or iBook, and then bam Core (2) Duo MacBooks!

I meant windows on intel macs

ah ic

8:06 AM

yeah i agree

8:06 AM

well, somewhat

Intel was decent a long time ago in laptops

sometimes it's nice having two OSes with different software and needs

lets go some work music

Moonlacer

Intel was decent a long time ago in laptops

they already match phoenix

exio4

lets go some work music

why is messi in a band?

meteor lake has similar battery life

8:07 AM

imo they're still behind in IGP performance compared to Phoenix (but when you're up against something more recent than Vega, you're already kinda screwed in the first place in the IGP space)

i love the pc market i love the pc market i love the pc market

8:08 AM

i love the pc market

We don't talk about Vega here

vega is already EOL

quicksync at least makes up for it when it comes to video on Intel

just don't even touch it

8:09 AM

it's display adapter territory

exio4

vega is already EOL

imagine being buried and you're not even dead yet

the zombie arch

if you need to run games on it, cope and seethe and buy a better computer

exio4

it's display adapter territory

With DirectX updates kek

b-but.... muh $50 cheap aliexpress RX 580

️

LukeTheVideoGamer

b-but.... muh $50 cheap aliexpress RX 580

️

that's polaris

8:09 AM

not even vega

Same boat there

yeah they're all EOL

ah rite, but still no drivers

But they still sell Vega products, is the issue

the age old amd conundrum

Moonlacer

But they still sell Vega products, is the issue

5500GT‼️

I consider Hardware without mainline first party software support e-waste

8:10 AM

that's my rule in life

8:10 AM

if the vendor i'm buying the hardware from doesn't offer me proper software support

8:10 AM

it's e-waste

main reason i gave my rx 550 the moment the eol driver arrived

exio4

I consider Hardware without mainline first party software support e-waste

wait so my iMac G4 is e-waste...?

LukeTheVideoGamer

wait so my iMac G4 is e-waste...?

it's fine to have retro gear to mess with

8:11 AM

or if you have an older device still kicking in

So the same thing with Intel and their UHD 630 stuff. It may not be new stuff, but they still produce those 10-11th gen CPUs like crazy on the lower end

we had an user yesterday asking about games failing to run on their intel igpu, the laptop was from 2022, the igpu was a gen9.5...

imo short of it just literally no longer functioning on a fundamental hardware level, there is no such thing as e-waste

well

8:12 AM

that is why I specifically it was a personal rule

thats fair

I won't spend money on hardware without software

8:12 AM

money is hard to earn

8:12 AM

i'm not elon musk

GoldenX86_64

we had an user yesterday asking about games failing to run on their intel igpu, the laptop was from 2022, the igpu was a gen9.5...

Wait for Dozen™️

it depends on what kind of software for me

Moonlacer

Wait for Dozen™️

dozen !? ryzen competition ....... /J

i'd personally buy a 3060 12G over any AMD gpu, for example

8:13 AM

any

i'm fine with something not receiving feature updates

8:13 AM

but buying something like an amd card which at the best of times doesn't even have that software support is dumb for me

ehhh, new prices for the 3060 are kinda trash, i would only do it if i was looking at used prices

that's the joke

im the kinda person stubborn enough to try and run Windows XP on a 2012 iMac, driver support does not faze me

at this point not having a proper compute stack is not even an enthusiast thing

ampere has better encoders than rdna3

He'd seriously take a 3060 12GB over a 7900 XTX

yes, I would

it's infinitely more useful if you actually need it

used prices, ampere is the way new prices, ada if viable, else rdna2/3

3060 would have better screen recordings, it'd run more LLMs

vram matters, now that 1080p eats more than 10gb

yeah

8:15 AM

the joke is that I'd rather play with low textures

i don't even know what amd runs for denoising in the viewport, the intel denoiser?

than deal with AMD shit

8:15 AM

i've tried using my friend's RX 6600 XT for a bit

8:15 AM

not long ago

because you can't beat optix for snappiness

it was a mediocre experience at the best of times

optix is amazing even on pascal

I unironically never thought RDNA2 could be this bad for ANYTHING but pure RASTER

8:15 AM

like holy shit

8:15 AM

i knew the compute overhead of xess was bad on the deck

8:15 AM

but upscaling to 800p is lightweight enough

8:16 AM

try upscaling to 1440p with XeSS and the RX 6600 XT dies

8:16 AM

it just dies

exio4

I unironically never thought RDNA2 could be this bad for ANYTHING but pure RASTER

lol, did you know you can change settings in blender to get rid of all the "bias"

Egdarska

lol, did you know you can change settings in blender to get rid of all the "bias"

nope

performance drops a lot on nvidia, but on amd it's hilarious

thankfully i primarily game, and for FPSes in all the games i have (i have exactly two RT capable games on my computer) RDNA2 is just fine :3

also, @GoldenX86_64 you tried LM Studio

8:16 AM

do you want to remind me what performance you got?

8:16 AM

no contest there, but i don't expect to buy rdna2 for llama

8:16 AM

same for blender

yeah, that's the joke

like, run a render with HDRi lighting without importance sampling and high bounce numbers

if you need blender or llama, you don't buy amd or intel

you're buying a very fast horse

it's like turning on path tracing on an rdna1 card

and getting it into a race track

it's like turning on path tracing on a Super Nintendo--oh, wait

a goddamn e-up! will outrun your horse, i'm sorry

8:17 AM

3060 > XTX for what I use my pc for

8:18 AM

it's insane that this is even a possibility ???

XTX >> any 60-class GPU for what i use my computer for (i will be CPU bottlenecked either way)

cuda baby, 15 years of work on it vs "meh, opencl is good enough"

it isn't just cuda

8:18 AM

it's the hardware

17*

it's bulldozer

no, but it's the basis of it

yeah, sure

8:18 AM

but you can't finewine bulldozer (edited)

8:19 AM

it's a broken design

8:19 AM

inherently wrong

watch me

my fucking 2060 super TECHNICALLY has better throughput of INT8/INT4 than an XTX

8:19 AM

2060 super

i want a 4090 just so i can submit a log with it and a 6300

FUCKING 2060 SUPER WHAT THE FUCK?

if you measure the intelligence of a fish by asking it to climb a tree...

that's not an excuse lol

8:20 AM

it's a modern gpu

Stupid fish

it should do modern gpu shit

1

it's not, but you're also asking for a gold standard that only nvidia provides, you answer yourself

RDNA2 was "fine" to me, because it was a stepping stone; the copium got to me and I thought RDNA3 was gonna be the shit

GoldenX86_64

it's not, but you're also asking for a gold standard that only nvidia provides, you answer yourself

apple reached good enough levels of compatibility

8:20 AM

in <2 years

8:20 AM

for their own silicon

been waiting so long to get rid of nvidia, we almost saw the light

8:20 AM

and then amd did an amd

ehh it still sucks ass at gaming

PyTorch runs out of the box

8:21 AM

yeah, I know, I mean the things AMD is bad at

8:21 AM

unironically, IIRC macOS + AMD is a better experience than using it on other OSes

8:21 AM

for compute

8:21 AM

but the hardware is just bad

while amd is still second place in 3d drivers, it will remain relevant the moment intel overtakes them there, it's joever for su

RDNA4 will be good with chiplet V2 (We hope)

AMD takes a second place in raster because there's only 2 vendors that even get there

8:22 AM

it's like saying Bulldozer is the second place in the x86 market

8:22 AM

ok

And yes, ROCm and HIP development is in overdrive

NVIDIA isn't slowing down though

They understand that without those they have no future in AI

they just did TensorLLM not long ago lol

the worst part for me about amd gpus is that they give us hope sometimes

Egdarska

the worst part for me about amd gpus is that they give us hope sometimes

yea

Moonlacer

They understand that without those they have no future in AI

as always, same as linux, 10 years late to the party kek

imho i think AI is dumb and stupid and no one should be buying CONSUMER graphics cards for it if they really want to use it

like, remember the ryzen 1 launch?, it had issues, but it was a legitimate leap over bulldozer

8:23 AM

like it wasn't even close

8:23 AM

and then it kept getting better

LukeTheVideoGamer

imho i think AI is dumb and stupid and no one should be buying CONSUMER graphics cards for it if they really want to use it

this makes no sense

the gpu division has moments of near competency and then just squanders it

8:23 AM

and it feels bad

a lot of shit around one's computer can be enhanced with machine learning crap

where's your h100 farming farm exio, shame on you

GoldenX86_64

where's your h100 farming farm exio, shame on you

one day

GoldenX86_64

as always, same as linux, 10 years late to the party kek

Good FOSS AI stuff Soon™️ kek

exio4

a lot of shit around one's computer can be enhanced with machine learning crap

agree but everyone's just using it to fucking run LLMs and image generator programs that are shit

LukeTheVideoGamer

agree but everyone's just using it to fucking run LLMs and image generator programs that are shit

ok and

how?

8:24 AM

you do know they only got to where they are because of consumer gpus?

1

there's a god damn 4090 shortage happening cuz of the AI boom i don't think that's cool!!!!

https://developer.apple.com/machine-learning/api/

that's like saying people should just game on i5 and ryzen 5 cpus because the higher numbers are for working

it's the same shit as the last two crypto mining booms except i hate it even more

this is what Apple does on their phones

8:25 AM

with machine learning

it's dumb

i am okay with TRADITIONAL uses of AI and machine learning but the moment you try to implement large language models or image generation into the mix you lose me immediately

LukeTheVideoGamer

there's a god damn 4090 shortage happening cuz of the AI boom i don't think that's cool!!!!

so you can't buy the 4090 you wanted because of ai?

shit went from unobtanium to "don't even think about it"

there's also the fact that the number of people buying gpus exclusively for ai shit is minimal

8:26 AM

most people do it aside from gaming

8:27 AM

kinda like how people run other programs other than games

(right click => copy subject, runs on the NPU)

8:27 AM

on-device machine learning

exio4

(right click => copy subject, runs on the NPU)

>hair nice try machine

Egdarska

>hair nice try machine

ikr

roto artists won't starve any time soon

sad news, nvidia no longer cares about geforce, the 4090 is an ai product at a discount

it's good enough for whatsapp stickers tho

GoldenX86_64

sad news, nvidia no longer cares about geforce, the 4090 is an ai product at a discount

nvidia cares about geforce, it's just not the main focus

8:28 AM

if we count this level of "care" as not caring, then AMD doesn't care about radeon

lol, i was going to say

8:28 AM

their "not caring" is so much better than amd's best effort i guess

8:29 AM

exio4

(right click => copy subject, runs on the NPU)

are you fucking dense i have explained FIVE TIMES what i am okay with and what i am not okay with do i need to spell it out THIS SHIT, shit like THIS shit that AI has traditionally been GOOD AT i am OKAY WITH shit like ChatGPT or Stable Diffusion, in my opinion, needs to be sent to the depths of hell never to be seen again.

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

mood

LukeTheVideoGamer

are you fucking dense i have explained FIVE TIMES what i am okay with and what i am not okay with do i need to spell it out THIS SHIT, shit like THIS shit that AI has traditionally been GOOD AT i am OKAY WITH shit like ChatGPT or Stable Diffusion, in my opinion, needs to be sent to the depths of hell never to be seen again.

why?

8:29 AM

also traditionally lol

8:30 AM

machine learning at this level is not even 10 years old

1

LukeTheVideoGamer

are you fucking dense i have explained FIVE TIMES what i am okay with and what i am not okay with do i need to spell it out THIS SHIT, shit like THIS shit that AI has traditionally been GOOD AT i am OKAY WITH shit like ChatGPT or Stable Diffusion, in my opinion, needs to be sent to the depths of hell never to be seen again.

genAI is hella useful for work shit, rotate a picture and autocomplete the missing parts, take a picture and autocomplete it for social media

actually might be 11, but either way

nah

8:31 AM

like, the field and "techniques", partially, yeah

8:31 AM

but making it viable, it's quite recent

we went from neural networks needing crazy movie-style super computer clusters to running on a gpu in like a decade

8:31 AM

mostly by accident

and now we're getting them on phones

8:32 AM

i won't forget rtx voice

turns out a device that has thousands of little cpus with adhd kinda does the job of giant cpu clusters pretty well

nvidia had the ship in the R&D labs and with the pandemic pushed it as an app

exio4

(right click => copy subject, runs on the NPU)

Still looks like garbage

lol

8:32 AM

on a phone tho

8:32 AM

subject recognition on a phone is wild

Moonlacer

Still looks like garbage

it's hair, i just picked the latest photo i had that didn't have PII - and this is REAL-TIME, phone-tier object segmentation

Egdarska

why?

first off: The datasets are typically created through scraping together tons of copyrighted works that realistically these closed source models shouldn't legally have the right to use. i consider that actual copyright infringement and it only hurts the writers and artists that made it in the first place. second off: I have seen exactly TWO cool uses of generative AI: being able to remove or move people or objects in an existing image, or being able to fill in the blank spots of a rotated cropped image. THATS IT!! every other use I've seen has been kinda funny at best or COMPLETELY immoral uses from corporations looking to save a buck at worst, and i am absolutely against any company who uses it as an alternative to human artists for anything creative. take jobs all it wants i don't care, but take the jobs no one actually wants to do

8:33 AM

that's basically the gist of it.

LukeTheVideoGamer

first off: The datasets are typically created through scraping together tons of copyrighted works that realistically these closed source models shouldn't legally have the right to use. i consider that actual copyright infringement and it only hurts the writers and artists that made it in the first place. second off: I have seen exactly TWO cool uses of generative AI: being able to remove or move people or objects in an existing image, or being able to fill in the blank spots of a rotated cropped image. THATS IT!! every other use I've seen has been kinda funny at best or COMPLETELY immoral uses from corporations looking to save a buck at worst, and i am absolutely against any company who uses it as an alternative to human artists for anything creative. take jobs all it wants i don't care, but take the jobs no one actually wants to do

in your opinion

exio4

it's hair, i just picked the latest photo i had that didn't have PII - and this is REAL-TIME, phone-tier object segmentation

How amazing is it if it doesn't produce a useful result?

8:33 AM

this is what it does for my controller picture

We have this tech, but it won't beat traditional methods

Moonlacer

How amazing is it if it doesn't produce a useful result?

lol, don't you use amd cards?

Moonlacer

We have this tech, but it won't beat traditional methods

that's the thing though, do that quickly on a phone manually

this is my laptop

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

(also, this isn't "generative" AI, I don't consider it that anyway, it's just simple background removal made more advanced through neural networks)

ice cream

Egdarska

that's the thing though, do that quickly on a phone manually

For that to be the end result? I'll pass both ways

i am fine with 99% of uses of non-generative AI, and i am conversely fine with 1% of uses of generative AI. this is my opinion sure, but it's also an opinion ive seen shared by so, so many other people.

i dont like genAI taking away jobs

8:36 AM

thats the intersection of machine learning with capitalism

me neither! and i hope that regulations will be made to actually keep these genAI models and companies in check

they cant

8:36 AM

the system is broken

if you start discounting things because of how they turn out because of capitalism, uh

but this is capitalism we're talking about, no one gives a shit as long as it makes them good money

Nothing will happen until the governments step in

"growth for the sake of growth" and all that shit. gragh.

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

speaking of intoxication, i didn't know too much cough syrup could make your stomach feel like you're dying

8:37 AM

but, i haven't coughed all day

8:37 AM

the object segmentation, without hair

8:37 AM

works pretty well

IT HAS EDGES REE

this is working off a compressed jpeg in <100ms

honestly my favorite part of ai conversations is people ranting about ai and not realizing all the things they use every day that use ML

8:38 AM

it makes my heart all fuzzy

I've used it, it just takes very specific conditions to produce a product that doesn't need manual intervention

same as native resolution gaming

Moonlacer

I've used it, it just takes very specific conditions to produce a product that doesn't need manual intervention

it still saves a fuckton of time lol

Egdarska

if you start discounting things because of how they turn out because of capitalism, uh

personally i think it's valid reasoning to dislike at the very LEAST a small portion of a larger technology because of how it intersects with capitalism. there can be good uses for generative AI, and that's what I've believed since this whole thing started making small splashes a few years ago! but not when it's taking data from copyrighted works, and not when it's threatening the jobs of people who actually like their jobs!

i agree

8:39 AM

that's not the same as AI IS SHIT

8:40 AM

you're conflating ai with bad ai uses

"cars are shit, the car manufacturers lobbied to governments to fuck trains"

exio4

it still saves a fuckton of time lol

Skip that step and just go straight to Photoshop, you'll get a better result there

also i think genAI just looks like trash most the time lmao but that's just me it's "fine enough" for most people and I accept that

LukeTheVideoGamer

also i think genAI just looks like trash most the time lmao but that's just me it's "fine enough" for most people and I accept that

you're missing the point

Moonlacer

Skip that step and just go straight to Photoshop, you'll get a better result there

have you used photoshop on mobile? lol

genAI from scratch is deranged of a concept

it's uh, usable i guess

the best uses of genAI are completing things

inb4 use a pc

I'm talking about PC Photoshop

lmao

8:41 AM

i hate typing on smartphone screens, i'll just type my messages on the pc

take a photo - expand it to fill an aspect ratio take a piece of code, and find possible ways to "finish" it

the keyboard is nicer

almost all of my friend's custom stickers were made with Apple's subject thing

8:42 AM

lol

exio4

you're missing the point

sorry, "i think full image AI generation looks like shit" is probably a better statement in this case

LukeTheVideoGamer

sorry, "i think full image AI generation looks like shit" is probably a better statement in this case

yeah, but the tech is exactly the same

exio4

take a photo - expand it to fill an aspect ratio take a piece of code, and find possible ways to "finish" it

there was a plugin for blender that would bsically fill in the blanks for your render

that is why I think saying that AI is shit as a statement makes no sense

so like if you rendered a subject, you could just generate a studio background and save that step

i understand where your heart is

8:43 AM

but it's a factually wrong statement

i don't know if it's still available but it was amazing

you don't get to say "the internet is shit" because anti-vaxxers talk on it

exio4

i understand where your heart is

oh ok so basically you know what i mean by it on at least an emotional level but you disagree with me because of how i worded it

i personally hate the e/acc movement

im not fucking Shakespeare im not Albert Einstein tf am i supposed to say to this shit in the heat of the moment

LukeTheVideoGamer

im not fucking Shakespeare im not Albert Einstein tf am i supposed to say to this shit in the heat of the moment

get urself a new brand of autism

8:44 AM

i propose we cure the e/acc AIbros with this effective medication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine

Guillotine

A guillotine ( GHIH-lə-teen, -⁠loh-) is an apparatus designed for effectively carrying out executions by beheading. The device consists of a tall, upright frame with a weighted and angled blade suspended at the top. The condemned person is secured with a pillory at the bottom of the frame, holding the position of the neck directly below the blad...

i probably should my current brand is at least 5 years outta date

luddites have always existed and they haven't won so far so i'm not particularly worried

Egdarska

luddites have always existed and they haven't won so far so i'm not particularly worried

you mean on regards to e/acc?

oh agreed. i think the people will persevere in the end like they usually do. it's just frightening for me, to see a lot of grifts and actually scary uses of technology get so close to being mass adopted by the public

the problem is that the e/acc movement is basically all the libertarian rich techbros with so much money that they think it's their duty to create the techno god

no, on hating any new technology as an instinctual response

they think any money not spent in developing AGI now is a mistake, as any suffering is minimal against the technical singularity

they think they'll be the ones running the simulations, but that's the average libertarian by another name anyway

they also believe technology alone is gonna solve any problems too

8:47 AM

https://a16z.com/the-techno-optimist-manifesto/

The Techno-Optimist Manifesto | Andreessen Horowitz

We are told that technology is on the brink of ruining everything. But we are being lied to, and the truth is so much better. Marc Andreessen presents his techno-optimist vision for the future.

8:47 AM

fucking cults

my main problem with that is that they usually don't really care about "humanity" but their idea of what humanity could be

Egdarska

my main problem with that is that they usually don't really care about "humanity" but their idea of what humanity could be

no

other than that, i'd rather have more unrestricted technological advancement than too little

i'm not against technology development

8:48 AM

i'm against the e/acc movement

Egdarska

no, on hating any new technology as an instinctual response

i love new technology but i hate a lot of the first uses of new technology, or at least the vocal minority opinions relating to new technology. for example, "cryptocurrency is the future! it will destabilize the banks as we know it and we can have a truly free decentralized currency!" is a statement that sounds too good to be true, and considering we've gone through two burst bubbles in the last decade alone, it probably was. that stuff, and far more sinister uses of tech, is what im against

that's different though

8:49 AM

crypto was just a pyramid scheme with new technology

just an example, and im aware it probably wasn't the greatest example in the world, but i hope it gets my general point across

Egdarska

my main problem with that is that they usually don't really care about "humanity" but their idea of what humanity could be

there's a growing "part of the cult" - that believes that humanity's well-being is not even "a necessary output"

8:49 AM

IIRC Sama is in that group

yeah, i'm familiar with them

8:50 AM

some of them took warhammer seriously

they stand on the point of view that if they create the technological singularity and it means the demise of humanity and new "stage of evolution", that's actually fine, and likely better

and ya boi elon has a really "grew up in south africa" take on it

exio4

they stand on the point of view that if they create the technological singularity and it means the demise of humanity and new "stage of evolution", that's actually fine, and likely better

wtf i'm an e/acc now

Egdarska

wtf i'm an e/acc now

no, that's the thing

8:51 AM

they actively think any damage now

8:51 AM

is irrelevant

i'm more of a transhumanist than anything

same

8:51 AM

human body is too limiting

but it's mostly because i've been dealt a pretty shitty body

i have a bit of a "transhumanist" view of myself, and i hope that within my lifetime there'll be at least more ethical physical augments made possible through emerging technology (preferably not Neuralink.)

not talking about the parts that are my fault, just the things that are congenitally broken

LukeTheVideoGamer

i have a bit of a "transhumanist" view of myself, and i hope that within my lifetime there'll be at least more ethical physical augments made possible through emerging technology (preferably not Neuralink.)

that is already happening

8:52 AM

but we won't be sharing thoughts anytime soon

oh God i hope not! lmao

the human body is proof god is not real; otherwise we could easily say they're one of the worst engineers to have ever existed

8:52 AM

maybe we're the AMD of intelligence tho

i'm always surprised that the spine restoration thing the brits did was not bigger news

if God made us in His image, then damn he's an ugly bastard

i actually dont think amd engineers are bad tbh

8:53 AM

just stretched out

that shit was science fiction when i was a kid

man, medicine shit is wild

cochlear implants have gotten to the point where it's almost like having normal hearing

we're getting dna-personalized therapies already

Egdarska

i'm always surprised that the spine restoration thing the brits did was not bigger news

i ain't even hear about that! bro that's actually amazing!

$$$ and what not yet

Egdarska

cochlear implants have gotten to the point where it's almost like having normal hearing

i cant wait for cochlear implants

8:54 AM

to become half-standard

8:54 AM

my ears suck so much

exio4

$$$ and what not yet

live in san diego and the university will pay you to become a guinea pig

Egdarska

live in san diego and the university will pay you to become a guinea pig

will they cure my adhd

8:54 AM

meow

they're doing gene therapy to treat certain types of cancer right now

8:54 AM

at UCSD

exio4

will they cure my adhd

it can't work miracles yet

ikr

brain shit is way harder and even there it has gotten insane

yoo spatial audio tomorrowland?

we've got "working" parkinson's treatments

8:55 AM

working: it diminishes symptoms

8:55 AM

but that's better than we were 10 years ago

we're so close to having wristbands that can read the nerves there for user input lol (edited)

i want there to be good physical augments and treatments that can better mankind and help the disabled become more able and i also want there to be funny stuff like tails and funky lil ears and stuff

the gene therapy for cancer is insane, it basically rewires cancer cells to think they don't have materials available to reproduce

Egdarska

the gene therapy for cancer is insane, it basically rewires cancer cells to think they don't have materials available to reproduce

gaslighting cancer to kill itself love it

Egdarska

the gene therapy for cancer is insane, it basically rewires cancer cells to think they don't have materials available to reproduce

so, science fiction made real

it does this by creating mutant cells of your own which then rewire the cancer cells when they use the mutated cells to reproduce

8:58 AM

the downside is you can't get chemo while getting that treatment, and it takes a few months to start working so it can't be used in terminal cancer that is very advanced

the biggest thing to me

but that's just a matter of time until it gets faster

is that a lot of medicine is stupidly recent

yeah, just the last 2 decades have been insane

we unironically don't realize how so many small things would have killed us 50+ years ago

that parkinson medicine i mentioned is from like 2008 i think

chemo gets bad rep, but the chemicals they use get better every year, so while still a "meme", it's also sooo much better than not long ago

ok im gonna go to bed good night silly little robots in my phone

good night!

night

i wanted to call you a furry in a wholesome way somehow but i didn't come up with something that didn't sound rude so you got lucky tonight

Egdarska

that parkinson medicine i mentioned is from like 2008 i think

tech advancements are one of the few things that make me think we're not doomed tbh

but then the people thinking big pharma is keeping medicine down to keep selling treatment makes me lose whatever hope i had

we can't "just tech" our way out of climate change, but solar panels were not even mass-produce-viable a couple of decades back

Egdarska

but then the people thinking big pharma is keeping medicine down to keep selling treatment makes me lose whatever hope i had

the idea that "the treatment for cancer has been cancelled by big pharma mercenaries" is so deranged

i know sometimes shit like that happens, but in most cases where people think big pharma is keeping a cure quiet what actually happened is it didn't really work

like bro the corpo that invents it is actually gonna be set for 20+ years of billions of profits easy

yeah, specially for cancer

9:04 AM

cancer is an inevitability as you live longer

cancer is how humans die if something else doesn't get to them first

it's just a numbers game and you can't win

basically

9:05 AM

a lot of old people that die of other things like heart attacks, you end up checking and it was a cancer that stressed their body iirc

9:06 AM

just very early, but ur old and weak so ur fucked

yeah

9:06 AM

usually just undiagnosed for whatever reason

and the thing is that, diabetes fucks with you

9:06 AM

but you can manage it

9:07 AM

my grandpa lived with diabetes for like 30 years, even with poor healthcare access during the 2001 recession, he did get lucky there that it wasn't too severe, but you "can work around it, sometimes, with some irregular healthcare access"

9:07 AM

ended up dying from cancer

9:07 AM

lol

that's another thing, like when people say we get more cancer because of all the shit in the food or the vaccines or whatever

9:08 AM

nah bro, y'all just never knew why you died

9:08 AM

though yes, we do have more cancer cases for other reasons

9:08 AM

pollutants mostly

9:08 AM

but it's not like "we never had cancer"

my great-grandma died from cancer but i wish she had access to euthanasia

euthanasia has been legal in california under very specific circumstances for a while

she broke one leg and her hip (iirc that's the name?)

9:09 AM

as a 80 year old woman

yeah

9:10 AM

that's always really dangerous, high chance of osteonecrosis

the leg was fine, it recovered, kinda... but she couldn't really walk more than a few steps or "be herself" anymore, she used to cook her own food and loved doing that, we had people that cleaned most of the house, but she liked cleaning the kitchen and her room

9:11 AM

because she organized things her own way etc

9:11 AM

and all that... was just gone

9:11 AM

she was 100% mentally btw

we see that a lot too, mostly because of diabetes, people lose their legs and they just give up, specially when they're very independent (edited)

she actually remembered almost everything in her life to the last detail

9:12 AM

it only got foggy when she couldn't walk anymore, and time mashed together

9:12 AM

but in a pandemic-like way

9:12 AM

where we think it's march 2020 day 1500

yeah, i forget what it's called but the brain just kinda stops running in order

9:14 AM

it's one of the reasons they're considering making exceptions to the "family can't update directives" thing

i really wish i could have shown her my vr headset and show her videos of new places every weekend

for cases where it's obvious the family doesn't just want an inheritance or anything and it's actually just mercy

oh regarding inheritance, she actually signed everything to hand things alive

it's also the reason mine have been do not intubate do not force feed since i turned 18

we had to sell some things because caring for her got too expensive at a time

9:16 AM

(we wanted her to have some independence at first, and that was in her house, with lots of people that explicitly worked for her, with nurses for a lot of the time, etc)

9:16 AM

the fact that this shit is controversial confuses me

religious nuts basically

i'd actually sign up for this if i lost too much independence

some people believe life is sacred even if it's torture

just losing my senses would make me go crazy

Egdarska

religious nuts basically

the sad part to me, is that when i asked why this shit happens, my family told my great-grandpa that i didn't get to meet (he died in the early/mid 90s), this was nearly a repeat

9:19 AM

he had untreatable levels of pain

9:20 AM

and hardcore painkillers had little to no effect after some point

9:20 AM

he just had to actually suffer in pain 24/7, with insane amounts of drugs to even take naps, for quite a while ???? and this is ok ????

yeah, it's crazy

9:21 AM

we had a lady who had suffered so much degenerative damage to the nerves opioids didn't bind anymore

9:21 AM

you can't do anything then because if you sedate them they're "asleep" but still feeling pain

Egdarska

it's also the reason mine have been do not intubate do not force feed since i turned 18

i wish i could write this down tbh

she's one of the few people who actually got permission for euthanasia

1

here

9:23 AM

we're all gonna die eventually

but i find it wild that "permission to die" is a thing

9:23 AM

as a concept it seems wild to me

i understand it can be abused

9:23 AM

but like, that requires a lot of hoops for non-cyberpunk-2077-universe

yeah, and even without euthanasia family members have done nasty shit to get rid of people

9:24 AM

but on the other hand, it needs to be case-by-case

exio4

we're all gonna die eventually

this is the key to me that makes it the craziest

9:24 AM

like, you can't beat that "moment", it'll happen, eventually

9:25 AM

I'd personally want my life to end on a "nice moment"

i usually just tell people my grampa died old when they ask, because he really was, 92, but he died because his room caught fire and he was in icu for 6 weeks

I'm actually suicidal, taking meds for that shit, and the biggest reason that has stopped me from doing the "last steps" is the risk of suffering even more

and he was deeply catholic so he never even thought about just giving up, but damn

yeah i mean

i would clock out on day 2

if u wanna raw death

9:26 AM

you do you

exio4

I'm actually suicidal, taking meds for that shit, and the biggest reason that has stopped me from doing the "last steps" is the risk of suffering even more

i got a funny anecdote about that kinda

9:26 AM

not really funny

tell it anyway

9:26 AM

lol

but when i tried to exit the server what saved me was a shitty primer

9:27 AM

and then i never tried again

9:27 AM

but i've always been not really good mentally so i don't think i'm "over it"

9:28 AM

it's also why i've never owned a gun after that, even though i like it as a sport

i 100% know i can't be trusted with a gun

9:29 AM

like, i'm one bus trip away from shooting myself in a field 700 km away from home

funnily what has helped me a lot recently is a friend who was diagnosed as severely depressed recently (as in like 5 years ago), and she basically just asks me questions about if something that happens to her is normal

9:30 AM

so that gives me a good reason to stay and help

9:30 AM

but it do be getting rough sometimes ngl

think if you die you might never experience the year of the amd gpu

this is gonna sound stupid, but i used to try to make it to the next big game release

nah i get you

9:31 AM

i 100% get you

so i'd be like if i go i won't play metorid prime 3

that was cyberpunk to me

it's like small short term goals

and the game's plot kinda helped me a lot

9:32 AM

to "eventually get help"

9:32 AM

it's stupid, but it is the real reason I love the game that much

whatever helps is good

i mean, if we're honest (edited)

9:32 AM

cyberpunk 2077 is just the fun was the friends we made along the way with neon lights

lol

it's not even that wrong

9:33 AM

lol

9:33 AM

the game even gives you a suicide ending

9:34 AM

which very much shows what it can do to people

some games come at the right or wrong time and hit hard

9:35 AM

it's why i'm always talking about that wii games fragile dreams

9:35 AM

that ending fucked me up in a weird way at the right/wrong time

9:35 AM

i was just expecting a pretty anime game

Egdarska

lol

i think a big part of the problem in cyberpunk 2077's story can be summed to the story being not cyber nor punk enough as it is basically about getting cancer after your best friend dies and you need to overcome hardship with new friendships, like, that's the story, that's the plot

Egdarska

that ending fucked me up in a weird way at the right/wrong time

rip

exio4

i think a big part of the problem in cyberpunk 2077's story can be summed to the story being not cyber nor punk enough as it is basically about getting cancer after your best friend dies and you need to overcome hardship with new friendships, like, that's the story, that's the plot

Phantom Liberty is a bit more cyberpunk-y, but the core premises are veeery modern day

9:38 AM

I mean, that is not necessarily a bad thing, but I understand why a lot of people feel like the story didn't embrace the context as well as it could have (edited)

that happens in every game that tries to deal with real themes

9:39 AM

if it's too abstracted people won't get it

9:39 AM

it has to resonate

9:40 AM

it's why i only play head empty games inklingCool

9:41 AM

speaking of head empty i need to wake up for work in 5 hours

bro

9:41 AM

u should go to sleep

that's the problem i can't

oh

but i will try anyway

well, then drink redbull

9:41 AM

lol

9:42 AM

i think i can call in late, i won't be busy until 10AM (edited)

neat

✌️

good night dude

lmao

Petracore

lmao

#hardware GPU talk moment

exio4

a laptop without usb-c charging may as well be considered defective lol

I had my Macbook Pro on a weekend trip and realized I had forgotten the normal charger. My relief when I realized I could just use the C brick for my phone

deadlybydsgn

I had my Macbook Pro on a weekend trip and realized I had forgotten the normal charger. My relief when I realized I could just use the C brick for my phone

tbf, for a macbook.. it's not just that it is usb-c

2:34 PM

it's also the efficiency

Egdarska

you need to see this shit in motion tho, the native taa is cursed

Have you tried going one res up with DLDSR?

2:42 PM

I'm pretty sure the original battery charge would have lasted all weekend anyway, but I was glad to know I had recourse

deadlybydsgn

I'm pretty sure the original battery charge would have lasted all weekend anyway, but I was glad to know I had recourse

yeah, i just mean that thanks to the chips, you can charge plug those to a 20W+ phone charger for a few hours, and actually charge the laptop

3:00 PM

it's wild

yeah apple has very efficient chips because they're ARM based

DeAthWisH00123

yeah apple has very efficient chips because they're ARM based

no

3:27 PM

lol

3:27 PM

ISA isn't the key here

Exio don't bring up efficiency challenge

deadlybydsgn

Have you tried going one res up with DLDSR?

No, but the native taa is broken, it's not just a resolution issue

4:35 PM

You could downscale from 8k and the taa would fuck it up (edited)

Egdarska

Exio don't bring up efficiency challenge

meow

DeAthWisH00123

yeah apple has very efficient chips because they're ARM based

You got that backwards ARM can say it's efficient because Apple made their custom chips

Oh damn, the new nvidia driver also enables rtx hdr for games

6:21 PM

FineWine at full speed

I'm this close to buying an hdr external monitor

6:54 PM

I don't need it but i want one

As a fresh miniled enjoyer, i say yes

just buy an oled tv is what i was about to say but i honestly don't think hdr is that impressive on big oled screens

7:01 PM

they can't sustain the brightness long enough in the brighter than sdr areas to really blow me away

7:01 PM

looks great on phones though

im a brightness simp

7:05 PM

give me 1000+ nits

7:05 PM

full screen

I don't really care much about brightness

7:09 PM

Just give me minimal banding and 500+ nits (edited)

i'll give apple that the latest iphones can do some serious damage if you turn the brightness all the way up in a dark room

7:10 PM

literally feel my eyes burning

Egdarska

I don't really care much about brightness

>about brightness

7:11 PM

>500+ nits

7:12 PM

bro hasnt seen sustained oled brightness numbers

200 nits expensive display

7:20 PM

It was a chore to import it, but the AOC doing 1360 nits rocks

exio4

bro hasnt seen sustained oled brightness numbers

I just want a flashbang when something happens

7:35 PM

I use a display that is like 250 nits, it's fine

7:36 PM

I just hate banding, and also want accurate colors

The key to happiness is lowering your standards. Duh. But also unironically, not completely duh.

Egdarska

I just hate banding, and also want accurate colors

time to never open yt again

1

Lowkey

3:20 AM

The new s24 ultra display

3:20 AM

Is eye searing in hdr

isnt it 2400 nits

3:29 AM

not bright enough yet

you want 10000

@exio4 how do u feel abt NVIDIA App which just went into open beta like today or something i tried it and it's pretty good, i like that i don't have to fucking use a GeForce account just to use it anymore

6:45 AM

asking u since ur like primo nvidia user number one

haven't tried it yet, but seems promising

6:46 AM

nvcp is slow, usable but slow

it's pretty cool, already ran into bugs but it's day one

i don't mind the classic control panel but NVApp is way snappier even on my shitass FX-6300 system

and apparently they got rid of 360 degree screenshots with ansel

Egdarska

and apparently they got rid of 360 degree screenshots with ansel

i didnt know that was even a thing so im ngl it was probably gonna happen sooner or later

its joever

i love my 360 shots

6:48 AM

though no game even supports ansel anymore

im not saying "oh it sucked" im saying "if i didn't know it existed, chances are a majority of users didn't either"

6:49 AM

honestly 360 shots sound pretty cool, so even if nothing uses ansel anymore, it still kinda feels like a loss

spatial video in games when

we goin back to 2011 baby Nintendo 3DS is back on the menu

6:53 AM

(ok but legit that would be pretty neat for recording VR gameplay since Meta Quest can view spatial videos recorded on iPhones too, so implementing something like it for VR and 3D games to view inside a Quest or AVP would be killer)

yea

oh yeah i just checked with witcher 3

6:54 AM

they turned it into just a shitty photo mode

rip

i guess i cna just keep an old geforce installer and swap between both

7:00 AM

also the resolution for a screenshot now only seems to top at 8k

7:00 AM

no more 32k screenshots of witcher 3

1

does cyberpunk support ansel

supposedly

7:03 AM

just press alt+f2

7:03 AM

but maybe not, i can't find any 360 shots of cyberpunk

7:07 AM

dang, i deleted all the large screenshots i only have 8k ones

7:12 AM

have an 8k geralt

im lowkey so pissed

7:13 AM

ai is so shit

7:13 AM

at multi-modality

7:13 AM

i can't just give it a mockup, the basic html and get it to style it smh

ai autistic confirmed

7:15 AM

@exio4 forgot about this lol

7:15 AM

my first experience with cyberpunk

i never had that

7:15 AM

did i get lucky

maybe

7:16 AM

it happened for like a few frames only

wait, i think i rmeember an issue like this

7:16 AM

what drivers you had?

homie i don't remember what i had for lunch

based

7:17 AM

there were a lot of issues that needed game ready drivers

7:17 AM

on the launch build

7:17 AM

trees glitched and shit

i think i did have the newest drivers

im coping

7:21 AM

found those old ssr comparison shots

7:21 AM

quality 1 vs 4

7:21 AM

4 vs 1 i guess, thanks discord

7:21 AM

dat leak

7:23 AM

i know all the detail is just normal map and the pbr shader but child me would have lost his shit

i need more monitors

me too

7:27 AM

https://www.amazon.com/Maxfree-S1-Laptop-Screen-Extender/dp/B0CGCMHJVY

Maxfree S1 Laptop Screen Extender - 14'' Laptop Monitor Extender Pl...

Maxfree S1 Laptop Screen Extender - 14'' Laptop Monitor Extender Plug & Play, 1080P FHD Portable Monitor for 13-17'' Laptops, Compatible with macOS/Windows/Dex/Android/Switch/PS5

7:27 AM

i need one of these

Egdarska

me too

i dont have enough display engines on my laptop

7:38 AM

i can only plug 4 external displays lol

exio4

i can only plug 4 external displays lol

Apparently mine only supports 3 external

7:41 AM

Kinda makes sense, hdmi and 2 usbc

Egdarska

Kinda makes sense, hdmi and 2 usbc

you can't connect multiple monitors to one port?

Maybe, but it still only supports 3

rip

I would guess the usbc are connected to the igpu?

7:45 AM

So the only nvidia output is the hdmi

im connected over hdmi rn

7:45 AM

having an hdmi port is useful at being lazy

Ports are another thing Apple got right in 2021

7:55 AM

Shame on them for being what they were before that, but I like where they took them with the M1 lineup

7:56 AM

Also, why am I up? Can't sleep but I have work tomorrow

I wish a couple more of mine were usbc

I somehow have 3 USB-C ports on my PC. One mobo front, one case front, and one on my... GPU?

On the other hand i have more usb a devices than usb c

1

7:56 AM

My laptop only has 2 usbc, and 4 usb a

I don't know if my GPU port works for anything other than VR

deadlybydsgn

I don't know if my GPU port works for anything other than VR

I mean you could maybe connect a display that accepts usb c input to it no?

Probably, yeah. I don't have one lying around to try

deadlybydsgn

I don't know if my GPU port works for anything other than VR

should work for anything

deadlybydsgn

Also, why am I up? Can't sleep but I have work tomorrow

this is cultural appropriation

8:08 AM

i'm supposed to be that person

I've had occasional issues sleeping lately but it's likely my fault. I had some extra coffee and a drink in the evening, but I mostly didn't drink enough water during the day. And then I played a bunch of Hades before bed... so I woke up restless an hour later and got up to not wake my wife

8:12 AM

Anyway, I'ma head back to try to sleep

yes

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Jeans bater gang

unfinished but fucking hell im exhausted

1:33 PM

thanks for the suggestions

That looks slick

1:34 PM

What parts are in so far?

4070ti + R7 7800x3D

1:34 PM

96gb of RAM

Solid and good and probably totk at 60

1:34 PM

96???

yep

Why not full 128?

4x24

1:35 PM

dont need it

Janky module sizes

1:35 PM

Gtg

not really, apparently 6/12/24gb modules are the new norm

ddr5 things

^^^

1:36 PM

trust me these things are new and scary to me too

1:37 PM

like what the hell is this crap

1:37 PM

keep in mind this connector is like, 3/4 the size of the regular "ATX" pin style

1:38 PM

i got let go of my computer repair job basically because of the pandemic in 2020 and ever since then ive been out of date

1:38 PM

so im basically 4-5 years out of date on info

1:43 PM

that being said, i have two external ARGB hubs. do i want to plug one into the other and that into the motherboard? or both onto their own motherboard header? (my motherboard has 3 headers)

1:43 PM

ive never messed with RGB in my own rig

It would probably be best to have them separate

cool, thank you

1:44 PM

im only gonna have them as static colors anyway

1:46 PM

lastly, is it imperative that i have each fans' power and ARGB on the same external header? it would be easier to cable manage if some fans' power went to one header while their ARGB went to the other

1:47 PM

or is it kinda like a "it all goes to the same place" type deal?

1:47 PM

given i suspect it really is just controlled all by the motherboard at the end of the day

Would you get a 750w psu as spec suggestion for a 4080 super? I would definitely get a 850w but right now they are all overpriced on Amazon

Steven Vigo

Would you get a 750w psu as spec suggestion for a 4080 super? I would definitely get a 850w but right now they are all overpriced on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BTTV6RXH

FSP Hydro PTM X PRO 1000W 80 Plus Platinum Full Modular ATX 3.0 PCI...

COMPUTER POWER SUPPLY

2:00 PM

1000w for the price of around a 750w PSU

750w is enough for a 4080

the 850w PSUs are marked up right now for some reason

I can get the NZXT for 130€ but it’s not atx 3.0, should I care?

If you're fine with adapters it wouldn't cause any issues

Thanks!

i have 3 ram sticks and im looking to finally get a fourth

3:14 PM

how do i know this is the right one?

HWinfo shows information about your current ram so just compare it to the one you want to buy

Don’t have much but this is my setup

1

9soulz

not really, apparently 6/12/24gb modules are the new norm

Jank

My pc parts came early!!!! So will be able to do a lot more today that I would of had to do tomorrow

Amazing

Like big expensive legos…

Awesomeangotti

Like big expensive legos…

Legos that if I break I have to replace which would cost me an arm and a leg

7:17 PM

Done this before so it should be fine lol. But never know on that cpu

Mmm

7:21 PM

I can get 22 fps in mario kart unplugged on my laptop

7:21 PM

Just the greatest

7:22 PM

Getting bogged down to 1.8 ghz

Felt as I used to game on a shit laptop

9soulz

Click to see attachment 🖼️

there is new H++

Jay

Felt as I used to game on a shit laptop

I played beam 10 fps for a while on a laptop

7:56 PM

Patented it just works technology

7:56 PM

(It also only had 4gb ram but lets not speak of that)

Huge rip

wow, the i7 3770 and gtx970 system still can average 70fps with current version of cyberpunk today. pretty neat. at 720p for that though, but still not bad at all. 1080p totally holds 50 or so most of the time. the i7 2600 and gtx970 system is within margin of error of it, just a pinch lower. the i7 4770 system with it's gtx960 though, is just a tiny tad even lower than that. showing that the gpu still is indeed the bottleneck just barely there. in fact, the i7 2600, i7 3770, and i7 4770, are essentially perfectly paired with 900 and 1000 series cards, like they were always meant to be or somethin.

My 3770 is still running in a little mITX box

that macbook pro ended up actually being a 2010 model. core 2 duo.

11:16 PM

which is totally fine and great for the collection

11:17 PM

the tv was an older lg, that has vga, which is cool

Jay

Legos that if I break I have to replace which would cost me an arm and a leg

Sadly. It’s not the day for me

11:33 PM

The stuff that’s most important is fine, gpu, cpu… but I got a bad ram stick

11:33 PM

And my storage is also fucked

11:33 PM

Just a bit upsetting

11:34 PM

Was definitely hoping to test stuff out today. Gotta wait till Sunday

Mango9999

wow, the i7 3770 and gtx970 system still can average 70fps with current version of cyberpunk today. pretty neat. at 720p for that though, but still not bad at all. 1080p totally holds 50 or so most of the time. the i7 2600 and gtx970 system is within margin of error of it, just a pinch lower. the i7 4770 system with it's gtx960 though, is just a tiny tad even lower than that. showing that the gpu still is indeed the bottleneck just barely there. in fact, the i7 2600, i7 3770, and i7 4770, are essentially perfectly paired with 900 and 1000 series cards, like they were always meant to be or somethin.

how is the frametime tho ? , with my i7 7700 i get alot of drops even with everything closed 4core cant handle it

takanome9104

how is the frametime tho ? , with my i7 7700 i get alot of drops even with everything closed 4core cant handle it

as i said, average 70

1:31 AM

even some of the quads without ht can still average 40-50 from those generations.

1:31 AM

things like i5 2500, i5 3470, i5 4440, etc etc.

i would cap fps to 30 in this case i hate jitter so much

3570K was an amazing chip that could OC to 4.5ghz with an undervolt.

takanome9104

how is the frametime tho ? , with my i7 7700 i get alot of drops even with everything closed 4core cant handle it

cyberpunk doesn't handle being cpu bottlenecked without any resources left that gracefully, but the framecap like you said - would smooth that a lot

yeah

4:08 AM

i'm having some issues with cyberpunk on my i7-12700H

4:09 AM

ruins frame times

i explicitly run fsr3 + nvidia reflex (w/ vsync) to keep it neat

do they not support dlss frame gen

bro got a 2060

i am on turing

4:12 AM

got the mod that swaps dlss3 with fsr3

oh yeah i forgot exio is part of 2060 gang

but lets me keep dlss2 enabled (edited)

fsr3 is so shit if you have to upscale fsr2 artifacts

4:13 AM

like it unironically ruins the feature

4:13 AM

fsr3 with dlss input is.. fine

exio4

fsr3 is so shit if you have to upscale fsr2 artifacts

lmao

but fsr3 upscaling fsr2 is

4:13 AM

????

4:13 AM

why even bother (edited)

4:13 AM

i haven't tried xess tho

i wanted to try xess with re4 but it doesn't show up for some reason

the frametime delivery is cringe on fsr3

4:14 AM

amd really fucks me up

i think it might need a specific xess version

they deliver a half-baked feature at best

4:15 AM

i found out theres a kim possible movie

4:15 AM

i got something to watch tonight

4:15 AM

got ice cream already

4:16 AM

100% rotten tomatoes lol

reminds me of the mortal kombat movie (2021)

4:17 AM

3.8 critic average, 86% audience

it's not a 9 but it isn't a 4 lol

4:17 AM

it's fine

critics: this movie is stupid as fuck, they just fight and say dumb one liners fans: THIS MOVIE IS STUPID AS FUCK, THEY JUST FIGHT AND SAY DUMB ONE LINER BRO (edited)

isnt that

4:18 AM

mortal kombat

yes, that is the joke

oh im dumb sorry

4:18 AM

i dont think the movie is bad for what it is meant to be

4:19 AM

i'd say nolan movies are worse

it's like playing DMC5 and complaining about the stupid parts

4:19 AM

that's the whole game

because those movies try to be ~psychological~ and offer ~insight~ and end up condensingly dumb

4:19 AM

condensingly stupid

4:19 AM

more like

i didn't love the MK movie, but it's a good MK movie (edited)

yea

4:20 AM

you don't feel like you wasted your money with it, either, it's what it says on the sticker

Jay

Was definitely hoping to test stuff out today. Gotta wait till Sunday

actually tomorrow

Got lucky with shipping so at about 10am to 3pm the rest of my new parts will be here

it's like if you picked up a 3060 that lists 1080p on the box and complain it cannot do 8K

it's like the critics watching the mairo movie, did you see some of the cringe reviews?

no

this movie makes no sense, the mustachioed man touched a bell and turned into a cat?

exio4

it's like if you picked up a 3060 that lists 1080p on the box and complain it cannot do 8K

Doesn't a 4090 at times struggle to do 8k

at times lol

Egdarska

this movie makes no sense, the mustachioed man touched a bell and turned into a cat?

yo

4:21 AM

i haven't played like mario ever

4:22 AM

and i know that's dumb

4:22 AM

my DAD hasn't touched a PC in like 30 years for anything but an old pc he got for cheap with solitaire and bejeweled back in the early 2000s

i can't remember if that specific example was from forbes, i'm sure it was one of the suit bro websites

and he knows that is fine

yeah, mario touches random things and transforms into something else, that's like, general knowledge at this point

I don't really need anything powerful. If I need/want an upgrade I have the motherboard that can handle a lot on it's own so I likely won't have to update the motherboard until the 50 series gpu's hit from Nvidia and even then I likely won't even buy that. So at most I'll do 4090 but that's so unlikely cause the price is way too big for me ngl

at most lol

i hate instagram so much, what the fuck meta

sus

Egdarska

at most lol

Well when a 50 series does come out it'll be "obsolete" even though the difference in games will be overkill and unnecessary

4:24 AM

so why go higher

it's not unnecessary

4:25 AM

we're soo far from the good shit™️

i need to watch the kim possible movie apparently it is from before disney+ was a thing

4:26 AM

so i uh didnt hear about it

4:26 AM

also, I wanna rewatch Nimona

real time path traced thin-film interference

4:27 AM

only with rtx 5000 series

Egdarska

real time path traced thin-film interference

i am so pissed we haven't seen a tech demo with NRC

4:27 AM

ngl

4:27 AM

https://research.nvidia.com/publication/2021-06_real-time-neural-radiance-caching-path-tracing

Real-time Neural Radiance Caching for Path Tracing | Research

We present a real-time neural radiance caching method for path-traced global illumination. Our system is designed to handle fully dynamic scenes, and makes no assumptions about the lighting, geometry, and materials. The data-driven nature of our approach sidesteps many difficulties of caching algorithms, such as locating, interpolating, and upda...

4:27 AM

look at that shit

4:27 AM

NVIDIA gonna be using tensor for training a neural network every frame

4:28 AM

and we can't do shit, they'll hallucinate rays, they'll denoise them with more machine learning, while upscaling them

4:28 AM

and then doing reprojection/frame gen with more hallucnation

4:28 AM

its gonna go so hard

4:28 AM

i can't wait until i hear people say "this is fake tracing because it isn't doing it for real"

I'll just ask them to show which vendor is doing it for real

4:30 AM

Amd?

the worst part is that people think that "real graphics" are a thing

Even "real" offline path tracing is fake as shit tbh

the mroe I read about anything in real-time graphics

4:31 AM

you realize its a hardcore illusion, offline renderers strive for much higher standards, sure

4:31 AM

but like

4:31 AM

real-time has always been a hacky hallucination

If you want to do "real" path tracing you're gonna be waiting a few minutes for a pixel to resolve

Egdarska

If you want to do "real" path tracing you're gonna be waiting a few minutes for a pixel to resolve

optimistic now huh?

Most renderers don't even do spectral rendering as a default

4:32 AM

Cycles didn't have spectral rendering at all until last year

4:33 AM

Subsurface scattering is a hack of a hack in every single offline rendering lmao

4:33 AM

Trying to actually sample internal reflection would be insane

i specifically mention real-time because frametimes are so tight that

4:33 AM

it's just insane

Here's a fun experiment, try to render a liquid with complex properties like shampoo or spilled oil without cheating by just adding a multicolor layer and calling it a day

4:35 AM

No renderer can do it, it's still a work in progress

is that even possible

4:35 AM

alrightr

4:35 AM

i was like "what technique can even do that right now?"

There's a thin-film interference "shader" for blender, and for every renderer, but it just cheats

4:36 AM

It literally just applies a different color using a fresnel mask

nah, I mean physically based

Yeah, it can't be done currently

I know of a lot of hacks for it cuz I remember looking at gasoline spills shaders

4:36 AM

("know" = "know they exist")

First of all, the accuracy you'd need to even attempt it is insane

4:37 AM

Because it works at the molecular level

i wanted to do a low-poly version of my dad's workplace and i wanted to do a gasoline spill that looked pretty

4:38 AM

let's say i gave up

4:38 AM

It's funny the first time a new 3d user learns about depth precision

this was years ago

4:38 AM

pre-pandemic

The before days

Egdarska

It's funny the first time a new 3d user learns about depth precision

what exactly

Because you have to be very careful with your world scale because depth only has so many bits

4:40 AM

The depth precision you'd need for real thin-film interference would be pretty crazy if you want the rendered world to be usable

doesn't blender have an option for 64-bit floats nowadays

4:40 AM

but yeah

4:40 AM

even then lol

Yeah, that's not going to cut it

what kind of precision would thin-film interference need

4:40 AM

i wonder

4:41 AM

i feel like you'd need a special datatype at that point

I don't know specific numbers, but take the size of the average molecule, that would need to be your mimimum unit size (edited)

that offers a high-precision component, and a low-precision side

4:41 AM

wich is ultimately a hack

4:41 AM

i mean

4:41 AM

computers doing anything but arithmetic is hacks

Then multiply it by the size of the visible world in your render

exio4

that offers a high-precision component, and a low-precision side

That's what a logarithmic depth buffer does

4:42 AM

But it's still not enough (edited)

Egdarska

That's what a logarithmic depth buffer does

i dont think a depth buffer is enough

You could section it which is kind of the same

4:43 AM

But then you'd only be able to render those effects close to the canera

nah, I mean doubling everything up - and doing the rendering steps twice

Since far away the precision would be trash

but concurrently

4:45 AM

basically the lower precision (current) renderer would become a sort of wannabe geometry buffer for the higher precision renderer (?)

4:45 AM

i know geometry buffer is the wrong term

4:45 AM

but i have mostly read real-time shit on raytracing

I know what you mean

4:46 AM

That's how blender worked for a while lol

meow

4:46 AM

yeah its nothing new

4:46 AM

but i assume you can stack more layers too

4:46 AM

its just

4:46 AM

why

Before cycles they just started adding path traced shit to the original raster render, blender internal

wait what

4:46 AM

can u explain the history of blender

It was uh

because that confuses me rn

It "worked" i guess

4:47 AM

Blender used a fully raster engine at the start

tbf that's normal?

4:47 AM

isn't blender old as fuck?

Yeah, all engines were raster first

4:48 AM

But then when they went to path tracing they usually changed the engine completely, but blender kept blender internal and added features

4:48 AM

I think the first was path traced shadows, way back in like 2012

4:48 AM

Or 2011

4:49 AM

Then they added subsurface scattering

4:49 AM

Cycles was in alpha by 2014 or so, and came out in 2015, but missing a lot of stuff

btw, something that annoys me is when people say RT/PT are not gonna happen soon because movies

Wut

they mention how movies have only gotten "real RT" very recently etc (edited)

Oh lol

4:52 AM

Honestly that just makes older cgi more impressive

4:52 AM

They made the lotr trilogy on a glorified game engine

it just makes no sense, games will use lower resolution textures, geometry, animation will be "worse", etc

Egdarska

They made the lotr trilogy on a glorified game engine

yeah

4:53 AM

part of me wishes to know what would be possible if there were arcade machines to this day

4:53 AM

you know

4:53 AM

stupidly high-end real-time rendering machines, with a shitton of optimization poured into them alongside that

There are, they're just not cutting edge anymore

nah, I mean arcade machines the way they were In the Old Days™️

And the japanese just use them for pachinko slots

lmao

I'm still mad about mgs3

why

Konami: here's a preview of a glorious mgs3 remake in fox engine

4:54 AM

It's a pachinko slot btw

4:55 AM

Then the actual remake is announced and it's ue5

what

Fox engine deserved better

4:55 AM

Have you seen metal gear solid 5?

no

Some things look crusty as fuck because no AA and low poly models, but then you realize it's a fully pbr engine with features that even ue only recently got, and it was meant to run on x360/ps3 (edited)

.... what?

It looks pretty good for the time

what's a pbr engine?

Hell, even now, it's just the models that let it down

Samueru

what's a pbr engine?

Physically based rendering

Egdarska

Hell, even now, it's just the models that let it down

animation too i assume

Eh, kinda

4:58 AM

Kojima has always paid a lot of attention to animation

4:59 AM

This is the mf that made ice cubes melt down realistically on the ps2

lolwut

He made the most slippery seagull shit in gaming history

5:00 AM

All memes aside, kojima really enjoys what he does

are his games good tho

he came up to quiet's actress and said joosten-chan we need to scan your feet for the game

5:04 AM

but kojima-san, quiet wears boots all the time

5:05 AM

kojima: trust me this is important

5:05 AM

he really suffered for his art

tarantino jealous rn

exio4

are his games good tho

look buddy, they're well made

5:06 AM

jokes aside, the gameplay in mgs games is pretty good, there just isn't much of it

5:06 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In3osfKXYFc

Digital Foundry

Metal Gear Solid 5: Xbox 360 vs PS3 Gameplay Frame-Rate Test

5:07 AM

it looks "bad", but considering the hardware that's pretty impressive (edited)

iirc it was a nightmare to make games on the ps3

yeah, sony's fault

they forgor that a gaming console needs hardware for rendering game graphics

5:09 AM

rookie mistake

5:09 AM

happens to the best of us

haha

i just simp hard for fox engine because i think it was the first engine to do fresnel roughness for ssr

5:09 AM

ue4 still doesn't have that

5:10 AM

i don't know if ue5 does actually

5:10 AM

i would assume it does for rt reflections

tbh

5:12 AM

the thing that interests me the most is neural rendering stuff, because it's the most ... alien? thing

also, kojima really wants to be a movie director

Tensor™️ has a 10x lead in compute over normal compute shit

so the camera in fox engine was the most "physically based" virtual camera at the time

5:14 AM

everything was tied to the real life parameters so the dof and zoom characteristics were always realistic

5:14 AM

you couldn't cheat and do wide shots with shallow dof

lolwut

https://youtu.be/WsmxBE9Gw6A?t=1114

GDC

Photorealism Through the Eyes of a FOX: The Core of Metal Gear Soli...

5:17 AM

2013 btw

5:24 AM

pour one out for fox engine

wait what

5:25 AM

PES was on it? lol

yeah

5:25 AM

it didn't deserve this end

im bored

5:26 AM

but this is a fixed-budget project

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

can't believe they went from calling it the right name

5:40 AM

to the wrong name

Why does it feel like ARL is going to suck.

arrow lake?

Yeah 8p 16e no HT and 2 AI cores.

anything intel still sucks, but at least they dropped the thermonuclear tdps

haha yeah they totally have

GoldenX86_64

anything intel still sucks, but at least they dropped the thermonuclear tdps

I don't fanboi over either right now 7800x3D is the best chip you can get.

if only motherboard costs weren't insane...

I paid 240 I think for this piece of shit auros I'm using

6:23 AM

270 lol

6:23 AM

for a DDR4 mobo

OldManKain

I don't fanboi over either right now 7800x3D is the best chip you can get.

not really, 7800X3D still suffers from AMDitis on software

6:23 AM

e.g. sleep is broken

Because ddr5 was sitting at like 1000.00 for 32gb at launch

exio4

e.g. sleep is broken

Yeah but with the 7800x3D at least you don't need xbox gamebar, or project lasso

it's not the best chip, it's just really good

OldManKain

Yeah but with the 7800x3D at least you don't need xbox gamebar, or project lasso

yeah, but you lose nT; it's not the best

And it's affordable compared to the 14900k

yes

6:24 AM

it's killer value

exio4

it's not the best chip, it's just really good

the best chip doesn't exist the best anything doesn't exist, because there's always room for growth and improvement

that's not what was discussed

6:25 AM

the best chip that currently exists is what was implied

7800x3d or 13700K are the two best chips right now for price to performance

6:26 AM

14th gen is worthless

imho you should buy the product that suits your use case the best, even if you inevitably have to also deal with some weird quirks depending on what exactly you buy

exio4

yeah, but you lose nT; it's not the best

What's the best chip to you? don't say apple silicon

at least it doesn't come with soldered 8gb and 256gb for 1300 bucks kek

6:27 AM

oh and don't forget, only 2 usb ports

or 8GB and 512GB for $1600, and still only 2 USB ports

Samueru

What's the best chip to you? don't say apple silicon

there isn't currently one; all chips have a gotcha, it wasn't like the intel era when you picked the highest-end-intel-chip and you had a clear answer at everything

yeah apple can make some good shit but they cannot reasonably price anything if they tried

To be honest there really will never be "the best" just "the best price to performance"

that's wrong

exio4

there isn't currently one; all chips have a gotcha, it wasn't like the intel era when you picked the highest-end-intel-chip and you had a clear answer at everything

you didn't answer the question

6:28 AM

what's the best chip to you

LukeTheVideoGamer

or 8GB and 512GB for $1600, and still only 2 USB ports

don't forget to add the mandatory huge dock you have to carry with it

6:28 AM

because you only have one port while charging

I gave my answer, what I want doesn't, I want the efficiency of Apple Silicon uncore, software of Intel & efficiency of AMD cores (edited)

GoldenX86_64

because you only have one port while charging

?

Squanchy thinks i'm an intel fanboy because I used to work for intel.

you're not even right in your diss

you want the efficiency of Apple Silicon, the software of Intel, and the efficiency of AMD...???? two of those things contradict each other dude

this is like saying "amd cpus are so bad the 7800x3d only has 4 cores" tier of wrong

LukeTheVideoGamer

you want the efficiency of Apple Silicon, the software of Intel, and the efficiency of AMD...???? two of those things contradict each other dude

apple silicon uncore

6:31 AM

like I don't wanna defend Apple's port selection on their laptps

6:31 AM

but can you guys at least get the number of ports right

oh i can just fine, i have most of those Macs I/O memorized

I only have 16 ports on my cpu

exio4

but can you guys at least get the number of ports right

How many does the base m3 get again?

the $1599 mac with shit specs has hdmi & magsafe, so you get both usb-c ports for data

6:32 AM

the m2 air gets magsafe

6:32 AM

(no hdmi tho)

or SD

like, i know this isn't a lot

6:33 AM

but at least let's shit on things using the right number?

6:33 AM

"Intel is soo bad they use 600W!" when yeha, it's bad, but it's 250W stock, and like 350W uncapped

6:33 AM

no need to lie to make it look worse

6:33 AM

lol

exaggeration to prove a point is a double edged sword because you can hit the metaphorical nail on the head and still get people on ur ass because you exaggerated something like power consumption for emphasis

no, in this case it was particularly mentioned you lose a port while charging

6:35 AM

when the latest MagSafe has been a thing for 2+ years

6:35 AM

i'd say 3 but i can't remember exactly when the things started shipping

exio4

no, in this case it was particularly mentioned you lose a port while charging

i only know one $1600 device in Apple's current lineup that can do that the iPad Pro, specced to 256GB of storage, with the optional Magic Keyboard accessory

6:36 AM

but that's a lot of conditions to meet

6:36 AM

so really, it doesn't count much

LukeTheVideoGamer

i only know one $1600 device in Apple's current lineup that can do that the iPad Pro, specced to 256GB of storage, with the optional Magic Keyboard accessory

nah, you can spec up the macbook air for that too

6:36 AM

the OG air

6:36 AM

but then it has like 16gb of ram and 1tb of storage

6:36 AM

or over

true, but then it wouldn't hit 8GB and 256GB of storage :)

yep

6:37 AM

m2 air has magsafe too

i still don't like Apple's pricing though. like, sometimes it's pretty reasonable, at least for what you're getting, but other times it's just absurd

nah the m3 model is cringe af

6:39 AM

m3 pro is where ther lineup starts

6:39 AM

$2k for a 16/512 config is fine because the rest of the machine is gud

6:39 AM

and even then, in america

im just surprised the iMac hasn't gotten its "Pro" variant for Apple Silicon yet, or at least a bigger screen

you can pick the m1 pro/m2 pro for less than the m3 model

6:39 AM

just buy that

exio4

and even then, in america

18/512*

oh right they nerfed the bus width

weird memory configs on the Pro and Max this gen, remember?

exio4

oh right they nerfed the bus width

a small price to pay for Space Black

LukeTheVideoGamer

a small price to pay for Space Black

real

LukeTheVideoGamer

weird memory configs on the Pro and Max this gen, remember?

they make sense given the dies

exio4

you can pick the m1 pro/m2 pro for less than the m3 model

next gen Apple Vision Pro better have M3 or M4 for $3000 or so or apple will never be the ones to achieve a spatial computing future im gonna be real

M3 Pro is actually sick

LukeTheVideoGamer

next gen Apple Vision Pro better have M3 or M4 for $3000 or so or apple will never be the ones to achieve a spatial computing future im gonna be real

vision pro's price is not on the soc lol

that, and an entry level Mac Mini, are the only places i can understand base M3 making sense

the displays alone cost as much as a macbook air

exio4

vision pro's price is not on the soc lol

yea ik it's on all the stupid amount of awesome sensors and cameras and displays and stuff

fair

6:43 AM

meow

(they could cut down on those with a "non-Pro" visionOS product though, probably down to a similar-ish resolution to Bigscreen Beyond which also uses micro OLED)

they're better off using an iteration of Quest Pro's miniLED IPS panels

like, you don't need 23 million pixels beamed into your eyes, ~12 million or so is just fine

no, you do

6:44 AM

23 millions isn't even good

6:44 AM

it's fine

6:45 AM

20/20 vision would still need like 30-40 million per pixel at the fov that Apple has

honestly the pixel count is a little high, my main concern is pixels per degree and overall FOV, both of which should improve, at least to varying degrees

and ideally humans do perceive beyond that in some areas

LukeTheVideoGamer

honestly the pixel count is a little high, my main concern is pixels per degree and overall FOV, both of which should improve, at least to varying degrees

how realistic are those improvements? honestly, not much LMAO

LukeTheVideoGamer

honestly the pixel count is a little high, my main concern is pixels per degree and overall FOV, both of which should improve, at least to varying degrees

... how do you think pixels per degree & fov relate to resolution?

6:45 AM

if you have a fixed resolution & increase fov, pixels per degree are lower

hmm, good point actually

6:46 AM

my b

if you have a fixed resolution, and you decrease fov, pixels per degree are higher

6:46 AM

if you want both to improve, you need more pixels

more pixels means more strain on the integrated hardware, and means better displays, which also means more cooling and possibly more bulk, which means more weight it's a never-ending problem with current tech

it never wasn’t

... i do still think the resolution could be lowered for a non-Pro product without most people complaining, but for future Vision Pro generations specifically... yeahhhh

but realistically thanks to foveated rendering, along other things - gains are not as hard as they seem

i see what you mean now basically, my bad

LukeTheVideoGamer

... i do still think the resolution could be lowered for a non-Pro product without most people complaining, but for future Vision Pro generations specifically... yeahhhh

i don’t see it; unless you want them to make the thing a much worse experience - reading text inside the headset needs more pixels

6:50 AM

if they lower them a bit.. that would be fine, but halving pixels would be a disaster

if the pixels cannot be lowered, then lower cost displays and better foviated rendering should be prioritized to be able to further cut down on costs for a lower cost product.

yes

6:56 AM

miniLED ips (edited)

6:56 AM

im assuming insane backlight density tho

lol wtf, I go play a match in OW2 and come back to 100+ messages, what you arguing about now?

OldManKain

lol wtf, I go play a match in OW2 and come back to 100+ messages, what you arguing about now?

the metaverse

I like to debate about reality things.

we're on discord

7:06 AM

we literally are talking through digital text bro

Nah

7:07 AM

we are talking through 1's and 0's

yes

you mean through negative charges

7:08 AM

if you want to be pedantic

wifi is funny light

7:08 AM

so

through means unknown

exio4

wifi is funny light

new age mfs when you tell them their eyes work thanks to radiation livereaction

My eye (singular) barely works anyway

i love this song gets butchtere dfrom the bleeps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owckyXFVV48

Prime Video

Charlie Goes to Court | Hazbin Hotel | Prime Video

7:09 AM

its so funny

i love ai covers of forgotten 80s songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-c39PRPsE

christang

Neco Arc - Camel By Camel [ AI Cover ]

7:11 AM

i dislike AI covers not because "augh AI" i just think they're dumb

@Egdarska do you know what measurement units can be made for uh

LukeTheVideoGamer

i dislike AI covers not because "augh AI" i just think they're dumb

counterpoint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7UChmjFAm4

Mr. Six AI Song Covers & More!

Mr. Krabs - Despacito (AI COVER)

frame reprojection / etc

Egdarska

counterpoint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7UChmjFAm4

based

what is all this random shit?

alright, https://www.youtube.com/@PrimeVideo/videos Hell's Greatest Dad is the second most watch video on Prime Video's YT channel lol

Prime Video

The official YouTube page for Prime Video US. Want to watch it now? We've got it. This week's newest movies, last night's TV shows, classic favorites, and more are available to stream instantly, plus all your videos are stored in Your Video Library. Over 150,000 movies and TV episodes, including thousands for Amazon Prime members at no addition...

7:13 AM

exio4

frame reprojection / etc

that would be a hard one

how much bandwidth is that

Must bea millenial thing.

how so

yeah, those 30-40 somethings

7:14 AM

youths

im in the hybrid between zoomer and millenial

this has always been a thing btw, and they've always been as wrong

7:15 AM

these damn kids with their books, reading instead of working the fields

7:15 AM

they're lazy now

i think once u get old enough you start spiting the generation that's two steps removed from your own for no good reason

7:15 AM

like it's just a law of the universe atp

lol, forgot i can't say ass hole

theres cool old dudes

7:15 AM

ive met

7:15 AM

that didnt hate change

7:15 AM

usually into tech

yeah, ass holes have existed forever

7:16 AM

and cool people too

yes

Egdarska

yeah, ass holes have existed forever

they've existed as long as asses have

the first human was an ass hole first

7:16 AM

literally

ngl i love modern tech

7:17 AM

i shit on the warframe port but you can run console-tier games on a goddamn 6" slab of glass with multiple hours of battery

7:17 AM

the whole device isn't even 250 grams

we have implants on your arm that beep when your blood sugar is high, and you can just check them with nfc with your phone

its insane

the future is now old man

i love modern tech but i won't lie im a little worried about how some of it is being applied at the moment. but i don't wanna start another flame war in here, because five is just fine but six is too much

nah modern tech is sick

7:18 AM

we're not even cranking it to 11 enough

7:19 AM

i want to get custom-made organs for when mine fail

LukeTheVideoGamer

i love modern tech but i won't lie im a little worried about how some of it is being applied at the moment. but i don't wanna start another flame war in here, because five is just fine but six is too much

only like, the dystopian shit like brain interface chips though. and also the very capitalistic views of "Web 3.0" as a whole, as if it couldn't get worse than Web 2.0.

and genetically targetted treatments for any shit

AU where everything is the same but the US' education and defense funds are swapped

Egdarska

AU where everything is the same but the US' education and defense funds are swapped

could you imagine? maybe in that universe, people are actually sane!

Egdarska

AU where everything is the same but the US' education and defense funds are swapped

the entire world would be so much healthier

Egdarska

AU where everything is the same but the US' education and defense funds are swapped

Doesn't the US already spend more on education than on defense?

not at a federal level iirc

depends how you count it

if you count states yeah i guess

for example, the university of california has a budget of 47 billion, but almost none of it is government funded

Samueru

Click to see attachment 🖼️

i bet that's counting every program tangentially related to education

7:22 AM

which is technically education i guess

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/#spending-categories

Fiscal Data Explains Federal Spending

Check out @FiscalService Fiscal Data’s new federal spending page! #FederalSpending

just like counting "agency in charge of finding aliens" as military

meow

That's only federal though

lol, that health spending is hilarious if you break it down

7:24 AM

because like 30% is paying for defaulted charges

7:24 AM

so basically the government paying extra for care that couldn't be denied

lol

if only there was a way to spend less and get the same treatment

some sort of, ugh, socialized health system

What I've seen in the US is that there's a lot of inefficiency in government programs

by design, yes

There's a nice vid going on details on a website for medicare that wasted so much money lmao

7:25 AM

let me look it up

that's like saying a a car has more friction than a train

that's how they've gotten rid of so many programs, it's an old conservative tactic

7:26 AM

block everything, make programs run badly, then point out how badly it runs, cut it

it isn't just that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5op0N700A

Kevin Fang

The Worst Website Launch of All Time

it's the "corpos are our friend" attitude too

sorry, off-topic, but damn it's tempting to buy a 3090 with 4 months of use for only 700 bucks here

GoldenX86_64

sorry, off-topic, but damn it's tempting to buy a 3090 with 4 months of use for only 700 bucks here

it's funny, our company has its own urgent care system, we get to see how much common treatments actually cost

GoldenX86_64

sorry, off-topic, but damn it's tempting to buy a 3090 with 4 months of use for only 700 bucks here

That's actually on topic, we are on the wrong channel lol

spoiler, a leg cast and painkillers don't cost $2000

nah the human body is hardware (edited)

7:27 AM

lol

Egdarska

spoiler, a leg cast and painkillers don't cost $2000

you really sayin that?

7:27 AM

couldn't believe it

i wish there were more programs like ours, we basically use the capitalist system to trick people into embracing socialized healthcare

the fact that is needed is sad tho

talking about that, my dad's likely getting a small surgery in like 1-2 weeks or so i gues

7:29 AM

if there's no delays cuz of cost-cutting

ah, the 8600g arrived

7:29 AM

430k

you bought a 8600G?

7:29 AM

oh

nah to argentina

7:30 AM

no money for mobo and ddr5

is it good?

Egdarska

is it good?

8600G? no

should be ok for yuzu, but at that price it's very very meh

buy a phoenix miniPC

cheers

2

1

oh no, you made it stupid

i really fucked up yesterday

7:31 AM

woke up at 11pm

7:31 AM

also, "for an approximate result" lol

7:31 AM

i don't know if i'm stupid but i can't divide by 453.6 in my head

450 is already pushing it

450 is not that hard

divide by 500 and subtract 10%

divided by 2 - 10%

7:32 AM

err, 500

7:32 AM

yeah

7:32 AM

i just thought about it from the point of uh kilograms

7:32 AM

im metric brained i dont think in grams as separate to kilograms

7:32 AM

7:33 AM

they are ~ fluid ~, you mix and match them like the french intended

~~

multiply by 2 actually

7:33 AM

i hate imperial

i have to use imperial

why are americans allowed to use imperial

7:34 AM

we should invade them

mostly for cooking

do ovens use imperial too

tested everything i could to get forza horizon 5 working on intel mesa, no luck, either microsoft borked it, or i need the new kernel

exio4

do ovens use imperial too

yes

7:34 AM

preheat the oven to 385

like do u cook at 500F

7:34 AM

i have metric on my oven (im normal)

7:35 AM

385F is lime 195C

yeah

7:35 AM

americans hate metric until it's time to shoot and smoke (edited)

i am sad

7:36 AM

i havent watched the kim possible movie yet

Egdarska

americans hate metric until it's time to shoot and smoke (edited)

Measure cpu temps

ive seen americans switch to F

7:36 AM

for that online

i bet if F was available they'd use it

No way

7:37 AM

Imperial is bad, it makes people lie about their height

i have read comments like "my cpu is at 200 degrees is that fine?" (edited)

everyone that is 5 10 just says that they are 6 feet

im 6 feet

7:37 AM

unspecified feet, maybe they're small feet

maybe 6 of your actual feets stacked lol

idk actually

Hey let me measure how many actual feets I'm tall

i'm 5'9''

7:39 AM

well, a little over 1.76m

Samueru

everyone that is 5 10 just says that they are 6 feet

also u meant 5 11

I'm 6.9433 feet tall (actual feet)

rrmember theyre not metric

exio4

also u meant 5 11

Got me

what if everyone is actually 6 of their own feet

i'd be tall

lol

my foot is an actual foot

The worst imperial unit is the awg

mpg

And also throw the btu in there as well

Samueru

The worst imperial unit is the awg

most imperial units are vibe based like that

"the worst imperial unit" is like saying u have the worst STD pretty much all of them suck, the best you get is something treatable

exio, if i asked you how you think shotgun gauge works, what would you guess?

exio4

"the worst imperial unit" is like saying u have the worst STD pretty much all of them suck, the best you get is something treatable

7:43 AM

That's awg

knowing that they have numbers like 10 and 12

it is that bad

Egdarska

exio, if i asked you how you think shotgun gauge works, what would you guess?

i don't, i actually don't guess, i've accepted imperial is deranged

It is also so bad that they ran out of zeros

7:43 AM

like 0awg is not enough

7:43 AM

so the next size is 00

7:43 AM

then 000

7:43 AM

and so on

exio4

i don't, i actually don't guess, i've accepted imperial is deranged

it's the number of lead spheres of that diameter that would be needed to make a pound

Egdarska

it's the number of lead spheres of that diameter that would be needed to make a pound

what

so 16 gauge is a small bore, 12 gauge is bigger, 10 gauge is even bigger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(firearms)

Gauge (firearms)

The gauge (in American English or more commonly referred to as bore in British English) of a firearm is a unit of measurement used to express the inner diameter (bore diameter) of the barrel. Gauge is determined from the weight of a solid sphere of lead that will fit the bore of the firearm and is expressed as the multiplicative inverse of the s...

7:45 AM

what

guns are stupid, i prefer the blade

lol

no fucking way this is real

7:45 AM

this is a fucking alternate dimension

welcome to imperial

Samueru

then 000

And for very big wire sizes where awg would make no sense, instead of metric they use circular mills lmao

circular what

kcmil is the name

why cant they just be normal and use metric

I have no idea what it is lol

mil, not mill

7:46 AM

it's gonna piss you off

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_mil

Circular mil

A circular mil is a unit of area, equal to the area of a circle with a diameter of one mil (one thousandth of an inch or 0.0254 mm). It corresponds to approximately 5.067×10−4 mm2. It is a unit intended for referring to the area of a wire with a circular cross section. As the definition of the unit contains π, it is easy to calculate area values...

7:46 AM

oh its more normal

if dividing an inch in 1000 is normal i guess

its like imperial area

7:47 AM

oh yeah i mean more normal compared to most imperial shit

1000 circular mil equals approximately 0.5067 mm2, so for many purposes, a ratio of 2 MCM ≈ 1 mm2 can be used with negligible (1.3%) error.

not in absolute terms

"negligible"

Oh, at least is divided by 1000

you know how the 14900K is more efficient than the 13900K

7:48 AM

that kind of comparison

i hope exio doesn't already know what a nautical mile is

i dont

it's a mile but on the sea, therefore longer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile

Nautical mile

A nautical mile is a unit of length used in air, marine, and space navigation, and for the definition of territorial waters. Historically, it was defined as the meridian arc length corresponding to one minute (1/60 of a degree) of latitude at the equator, such that Earth's polar circumference is very near to 21,600 nautical miles (that is 60 min...

imagine if you were on a ship and you said you're 6 clicks away

7:49 AM

ground clicks or water clicks?

clicks?

what

isnt that a made up unit for sci fi

also the knot lol

7:50 AM

nah, klick is an actual thing

never heard of that

7:51 AM

klick sounds like the name KDE would give to some application lol

it's just a kilometer

7:51 AM

the knot is nautical miles per hour

Samueru

klick sounds like the name KDE would give to some application lol

the question is what utility would it perform poorly?

7:52 AM

(i am not a fan of most of KDE's apps)

That's KDE not Gnome lol

kde connect is pretty based

Indeed

oh i had nothing but issues with kde connect last time i used it

I use it a lot, I can mount my phone as a dir on my filebrowser

granted that was like 2 years ago now but still

When I get a call media stops on my pc and I get a notification of the call

you can't do that on windows, but as an airdrop thing it's pretty cool

and I can control the music of my pc from my phone

i mean the filebrowser thing

7:53 AM

you can type messages and stuff on windows too

kde connect on linux is unironically fucking good

kdeconnect is amazing, you can also setup custom shell commands to send from the phone

7:54 AM

I usually shutdown the pc from my bed when I go to sleep

Samueru

I usually shutdown the pc from my bed when I go to sleep

i used to open the remote desktop with gamestream/moonlight and then just turn it off like that

I haven't had plug my phone to the pc in a looong time

because I can even run adb shell thru wifi

my problem with the KDE app suite is that, the last time i tried using it mind you, it was very much "oh, you want this one specific application and nothing more than needed? fuck you installs the entire KDE app suite anyway" (edited)

thats normal

LukeTheVideoGamer

my problem with the KDE app suite is that, the last time i tried using it mind you, it was very much "oh, you want this one specific application and nothing more than needed? fuck you installs the entire KDE app suite anyway" (edited)

It is like 700 MiB

also, yes

And you can also get some kde apps as appimages if you don't want that many dependencies

7:56 AM

I have kdenlive as an appimage

how did linux bros let programs get away with that?

exio4

thats normal

"that's normal" it shouldn't be that's my issue with it

they used to boycott programs if they were more than 12MB

7:57 AM

did even they have to accept that time moves on?

LukeTheVideoGamer

"that's normal" it shouldn't be that's my issue with it

its like being confused using chrome installs a window server tho

GTK4 is a trainwreck on the theming btw

7:57 AM

I had so many issues with zenity trying to follow the system theme and I actually went and installed a gtk3 version of it

7:58 AM

Like you have to patch the thing, and the patch recently broke

but at least it's free tho

like, if i want JUST KDE Connect and JUST Konsole on, say, Xfce, and nothing more since i already have perfectly fine alternatives to other KDE apps, i can't unless i try using appimages or flatpaks, if they're even available, since usually my package manager will just go "errr, you want these two KDE apps? well, if you want those two, then surely you also want these twenty other ones that aren't even required dependencies for the two you want to work, don't you?" NO I FUCKING DONT JUST GIVE ME CONNECT AND KONSOLE

8:00 AM

libadwaita-without-adwaita lol

LukeTheVideoGamer

like, if i want JUST KDE Connect and JUST Konsole on, say, Xfce, and nothing more since i already have perfectly fine alternatives to other KDE apps, i can't unless i try using appimages or flatpaks, if they're even available, since usually my package manager will just go "errr, you want these two KDE apps? well, if you want those two, then surely you also want these twenty other ones that aren't even required dependencies for the two you want to work, don't you?" NO I FUCKING DONT JUST GIVE ME CONNECT AND KONSOLE

i understand at least part of the reason why, they're apps meant to be used in conjunction with the KDE environment as a whole, but like... it's fucking Linux! what if i just simply wanted to mix and match?

it could be different from the last time ive tried it, it has been a decent bit since i actually wholeheartedly daily drove Linux, but still, not a very fun thing to deal with from my perspective.

8:04 AM

it especially sucks for me too since when KDE Connect works, i actually do quite like it! and i do think that Konsole is one of the better terminal emulators you can get. it just sucks when it tries to install ten billion other things that i DONT NEED simply because i had the gall to try and use them outside of Plasma

8:05 AM

That's everything that kdeconnect needs on my system

then it's probably changed since i last tried it myself. good to know for kdeconnect at least.

Samueru

Click to see attachment 🖼️

a lot of those will end up including a lot of other, smaller stuff

8:07 AM

it's normal, and it is just the byproduct of installing a whole desktop environment's core libraries

8:07 AM

they dont run in the background as daemons or anything so i think having 700MB of "wasted" storage is fine lol

Also you really can't get a any smaller system

8:07 AM

my OS is 5 GiB

8:08 AM

And that includes home

it's less than it trying to install basically every other major KDE application. hell, i think the last time i truly tried installing Konsole outside of KDE it fucking tried to install plasma itself, noped the fuck outta that, said "ok maybe another terminal emulator is just fine." that was probably just a weird fringe case, and again that was like 2 years ago, coulda changed since then.

what distro

LukeTheVideoGamer

it's less than it trying to install basically every other major KDE application. hell, i think the last time i truly tried installing Konsole outside of KDE it fucking tried to install plasma itself, noped the fuck outta that, said "ok maybe another terminal emulator is just fine." that was probably just a weird fringe case, and again that was like 2 years ago, coulda changed since then.

exio4

what distro

i think Arch Linux? i was using Xfce

no idea then

8:09 AM

apt has recommended packages

8:09 AM

whcih do that

8:09 AM

but they're optional

GoldenX86_64

Click to see attachment 🖼️

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0qmkQGqpM8

tommya

Terry Davis on Simplicity

Egdarska

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0qmkQGqpM8

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerAnimemes/comments/tjyg2c/sort_using_js/

From the ProgrammerAnimemes community on Reddit: Sort using JS

Explore this post and more from the ProgrammerAnimemes community

1

LukeTheVideoGamer

i think Arch Linux? i was using Xfce

Why did you want to use konsole instead of the xfce4-terminal?

do they really just name everything "same thing but spelled with K"?

8:14 AM

why isn't it KDE Konnect?

Egdarska

do they really just name everything "same thing but spelled with K"?

Dolphin is the exception

8:14 AM

inb4 Kolphin

Samueru

Why did you want to use konsole instead of the xfce4-terminal?

personally find the general feel of the actual terminal emulator itself preferable even on Xfce. entirely personal preference, nothing to really do with functionality or configurability

Like the screenshots I sent you were with the xfce4-terminal on i3wm

8:15 AM

I has everything I need

8:15 AM

including configurable keybinds

Kde KonneKt

8:15 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryOmqxJcK5w

Klip5

KKK (Krusty Komedy Klassic) Scene | Krusty Is Pelted With Veg | The...

The shell is what matters the most for the terminal

8:16 AM

zsh or nothing

i use iterm

macs use the zsh shell like god intended

8:17 AM

Although I heard that /bin/sh is not a symlink

8:17 AM

is that true?

Samueru

The shell is what matters the most for the terminal

oh absolutely, zsh is absolutely a necessity when im on any unix-like, i just generally prefer Konsole to some of the other terms ive used, at least out of the box

8:18 AM

meow

Can't you just symlink sh to dash on macos?

doesnt seem to be a symlink and has its own manpage

Are they still using the actual sh shell in 2024?

8:20 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourne_shell

Bourne shell

The Bourne shell (sh) is a shell command-line interpreter for computer operating systems. The Bourne shell was the default shell for Version 7 Unix. Unix-like systems continue to have /bin/sh—which will be the Bourne shell, or a symbolic link or hard link to a compatible shell—even when other shells are used by most users. Developed by Stephen B...

is there an actual way to check

exio4

doesnt seem to be a symlink and has its own manpage

Oh nvm it says there that it will use another shell lol

Samueru

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourne_shell

oh so that's why bash is called the "Bourne-again shell"

oh

8:21 AM

im dumb

8:21 AM

meow

The macos way lol

Mrow

instead of a symlink it has to be a program that does the job of a symlink

universal binary too

8:23 AM

shipping the same binaries on both platforms?

universal binary: for when compiling one arch's binary is simply not enough for you

LukeTheVideoGamer

oh so that's why bash is called the "Bourne-again shell"

Dash means Debian Almquist shell, cool name

fish tho

fish

i fucked up so hard

8:24 AM

its 5am lol

It is also near 5am here lol

it's 1:30am almost here

i woke up at 23

a true night owl

im in goddamn australian time or something

Egdarska

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0qmkQGqpM8

my second favorite terry davis video (dont ask me what my favorite is)

1

The hardest question and the hardest R in programming

i cant find my microusb cable...

New AM5 motherboard: bios update before or after assembly?

I’m not sure what the advantage is in doing it before

2:29 PM

Regardless, have fun assembling!

2:29 PM

I really enjoyed doing mine in November

Me neither, I’m asking ‘cause of YouTubers

after

Ok, logic wins. Btw Amazon sent me everything today… and the CPU next Tuesday, that’s evil

I had to wait almost an extra week because my case got hung up on a holiday weekend

@exio4 cp77 works on intel proton now, with shintel performance to match ignore the resolution, that's just how wayland does fractional scaling (1080p 125%) wayland moment (edited)

Mama mia

just half the windows performance

GoldenX86_64

just half the windows performance

That most be an issue with the intel drivers, because the deck performs better than the rog ally on that title even though the deck has weaker hardware

Pc is down building!!!, upgraded my ram speed as well

1

8:40 PM

Will do Yuzu tests later!

Samueru

That most be an issue with the intel drivers, because the deck performs better than the rog ally on that title even though the deck has weaker hardware

most likely someone said on reddit that the flatpak build of steam is faster with anv, testing that out

GoldenX86_64

most likely someone said on reddit that the flatpak build of steam is faster with anv, testing that out

You might also wanna try with mesa-git

true, but i hate copr

copr?

i still need kernel 6.8 to get the new kernel driver

9:02 PM

fedora's user made repos

Oh I see

9:02 PM

What kernel are you using?

6.7

Which 6.7?

9:03 PM

All 6.7 had a terrible ram bug until the very last one came out yesterday

6.7.5

That one has the bug

9:04 PM

Although I think fedora uses madvise for hugepages

9:04 PM

So I shouldnt cause the issue

9:05 PM

it*

6.8 will have a new xe/arc exclusive kernel driver that allows for more vulkan extensions to work

9:07 PM

mesa has support, only the kernel is needed

9:08 PM

hoping that improves proton

Cool

GoldenX86_64

i still need kernel 6.8 to get the new kernel driver

shoulda used arch

10:13 PM

Hell no

one day

10:14 PM

one day

Fedora is fine

10:18 PM

The only thing to watch out is that fedora tends to adopt breaking changes first

10:18 PM

They were the first to use wayland by default in gnome

10:18 PM

in 2017!

10:18 PM

at that time you could not even use wayland with multiple displays, it would freeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9qCqRTEVz0

Brodie Robertson

Fedora Linux Is An Experimental Distro And That's OK

oh this is the hyprland guy

10:32 PM

based

i love hyprland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhZ_HnqkJoo

Brodie Robertson

The "Problem" With Distros Shipping Hyprland

10:46 PM

This vid is great

yeah I 100% agree with it lmao

10:53 PM

wlroots being that slow with releases is great for sway which is trying to mimic i3 and terrible for anyone else trying to use wlroots

1

@exio4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egdV0NLoL-c

Gamers Nexus

Valve Goes Hard: Steam Deck OLED Review & Benchmarks vs. ASUS ROG A...

2:07 AM

STEAM DECK ON TOP RAHHHH

That's amazing considering the deck has weaker hardware

Samueru

That's amazing considering the deck has weaker hardware

tied fps, better frametimes 1% and 0.1% lows and better battery

2:33 AM

they tested with everything normalized including resolution

2:33 AM

Does the steamdeck automatically set the cpu scheduler to performance when playing?

2:34 AM

because phoronix found that greatly improves the fps

2:35 AM

https://www.phoronix.com/review/steam-deck-rog-ally

Steam Deck vs. ASUS ROG Ally Arch Linux Gaming Performance

With the ASUS ROG Ally gaming handheld that began shipping last month I've so far looked at the Linux support for this device as well as looking at the Windows 11 vs.

2:36 AM

The ally is using arch there

2:36 AM

they tested ally with default (performance) (edited)

2:37 AM

the performance acpi mode probably enables what's called turbo in windows

2:37 AM

draws 35Ws

2:38 AM

so yeah ally is better if u wanna buy a mini pc to have plugged in all the time

Ey phoronix has benchmarks on windows

2:39 AM

On just the ally

2:39 AM

https://www.phoronix.com/review/rog-ally-windows-linux/2

Windows 11 vs. Linux Gaming Performance On The ASUS ROG Ally Review

.

2:40 AM

Cyberpunk is better on the ally on windows, but phoronix didn't measure the .1% fps lows though

.1% fps lows are probably worse on windows lol

Yeah I imagine

2:40 AM

wtf

2:40 AM

Most be a driver issue

gn cites software for why the frametimes and 1% and 0.1% lows are so bad (edited)

Samueru

Most be a driver issue

amd and windows?

2:41 AM

yeah

Holy shit from 17 to 74 fps

wtf

2:41 AM

unless the acpi mode

2:41 AM

draws more power than the windows turbo (edited)

2:41 AM

that is crazy

2:42 AM

they actually sold by putting it on windows

That doesn't even make sense

2:42 AM

Someone tell me what a Windows 11 Turbo means

ally has custom software

2:42 AM

there's a button called turbo

Oh, ROG Ally

it makes it draw 35w and kills the battery in 30minutes

Most be the same as setting the cpu scheduler to turbo on linux

2:43 AM

That's what gamemode does

2:43 AM

and iirc for steam games you have to add gamemode in the launch options

Are they using the drivers Asus ships?

2:43 AM

Those things are typically 2 months old

GN updated everything to latest

so the benchmarks that gamernexus did could have been even better for the deck if they setup gamemode

and had much better results

You can install the ones from the AMD website now with a minimal workaround, last I heard

Otherwise you're relying on Asus, who can't make software

phoronix did something wrong lol

Definitely

maybe it's old drivers

2:45 AM

oh wait

2:45 AM

GN used FSR 2.1

__fastcall

phoronix did something wrong lol

Shocking (edited)

there u go

2:45 AM

nah it's fsr

I don't see what phoronix did wrong though

they didn't

2:45 AM

GN just used FSR 2.1

That still wouldn't 3x the framerate

true

2:46 AM

explains a bit though

2:46 AM

https://www.phoronix.com/benchmark/result/steam-deck-vs-asus-rog-ally-gaming/result.svgz

Does F1 22 run natively on Linux now?

2:47 AM

Or is that still through Proton or something?

2:48 AM

Crazy results if that's through Proton, but something is still wrong

proton

__fastcall

https://www.phoronix.com/benchmark/result/steam-deck-vs-asus-rog-ally-gaming/result.svgz

Steam Deck: Scaling Governor: acpi-cpufreq schedutil

2:48 AM

Oh fuck that means that the results on the deck could have been much better

2:49 AM

They didn't use gamemode while the rog ally was tested with the turbo thing

2:49 AM

schedutil drops my fps by half on beamng for example

Samueru

schedutil drops my fps by half on beamng for example

does changing that increase power at all though (edited)

Yes it does

yeahhh

Just in case what I mean is that performance increases the power draw, schudutil drops it instead

Moonlacer

That still wouldn't 3x the framerate

oh

2:51 AM

also GN normalized everything (everything at 720p) (edited)

I will still stand on my point that these first generation devices aren't worth it

phoronix tested rog with 1080p

2:51 AM

deck with it's native res (edited)

Ah, native vs native

yeah different res + upscaling making up that difference

The 1080p screen is for YouTube and 2D games livereaction

Moonlacer

The 1080p screen is for YouTube and 2D games livereaction

not even 2d games lol

2:53 AM

dead cells lasts like 8hs on the deck

2:53 AM

and 2hs on the ally

2:53 AM

i'd much rather have the 8hs

I can't wait for the MSI handheld

2:53 AM

It's going to be so bad

2:53 AM

Intel graphics

I wanna know the battery life on the msi one

2:54 AM

it is already bad on the rog ally lol

Now imagine Intel efficiency

Like that shit might not even do 2 hours lol

Unless they double the battery capacity somehow I expect 1/3-2/3 less lifespan

2:55 AM

Unless the CPU ends up being equivalent to a Celeron or something

2:55 AM

In which case it's ewaste

kek

2:58 AM

Those 6 P-cores better be running at 1Ghz

2:59 AM

It seems Intel is trying to get their Ultra lineup to idle with LP E-cores only, now

2:59 AM

I thought E-cores would be the solution to efficiency, but apparently that wasn't enough and we need a V2

Samueru

wtf

I don’t trust MSI to do much well, honestly

Samueru

They didn't use gamemode while the rog ally was tested with the turbo thing

?

4:48 AM

steamdeck's boosting is actually custom

4:48 AM

it explicitly tradeoffs "peak performance" for efficiency

4:49 AM

https://chipsandcheese.com/2023/03/05/van-gogh-amds-steam-deck-apu/

clamchowder

Van Gogh, AMD’s Steam Deck APU

Zen 2’s launch was a defining moment for AMD. For the first time in many, many years, AMD’s single thread performance could go head to head with Intel’s best. Zen 2 also started a trend where AMD b…

4:49 AM

it takes a whole real-life second

4:49 AM

to reach peak frequency lol

Yeah but the rog ally was tested with turbo which is misleading

And why am I surprised that exio is correcting me about efficiency lol (edited)

its my only personality trait

Samueru

Yeah but the rog ally was tested with turbo which is misleading

yea fair

4:50 AM

but the problem is that the amd laptop chips are optimized for that

4:50 AM

they dont have the firmware love of the deck

4:50 AM

>This kind of boost behavior is terrible for a client device. It’s going to feel a lot less responsive than other Zen 2 systems. For comparison, Renoir reaches its maximum boost clock in 9.35 ms. Even older CPUs like Piledriver and Haswell can reach maximum clocks in less than 100 ms, which makes me think this boost policy is deliberate. Behavior is similarly bad on both Windows and SteamOS. Perhaps Valve did so in order to extend battery life at the expense of responsiveness.

4:51 AM

1000 ms vs 9.35 ms kek

I will make a shell named after exio, the exsh shell, that will only only print "muh efficiency" when called kek

it'll actually do nothing

4:51 AM

muh efficiency would be too power hungry

lmao

its funny to me tho

it will turn off the pc

4:51 AM

there is just efficiency

steamdeck is cringe in "theoretical specs"

4:52 AM

its underspec as fuck, but because it doesn't have to throttle to sub-idle power to do gaming, it is actually great

4:52 AM

rog ally is like raw specs go brr but it performs like shit

4:52 AM

lovely

what do you think the msi thing will perform like?

at deck tdps? humiliation for intel

4:53 AM

at rog ally tdps? kinda a wash, better for some workloads, worse for others

But like does it even have a change of having better battery life than the ally?

at > rog tdps? it'll pull ahead

4:53 AM

no lol

kek

Samueru

kek

This is insane, and linux isn't known for having good battery life on laptops

yeah idk why they went with 1080p

they're not handhelds

4:56 AM

they're PCs

4:57 AM

the PC market buys based off spec sheet

4:57 AM

"broo the rog ally has 1080p display and 8 cores its twice as good as the deck"

people buying off specs

Samueru

This is insane, and linux isn't known for having good battery life on laptops

the deck oled there is also doing worse than it could

5:06 AM

if you normalize vs the deck lcd, with 60 hz - or play visual novels at 30 hz, you can get 11-12 hours if you really want to push it

Cool

its what you get with game streaming

5:06 AM

a friend charges his deck once a week or so

I would try to undervolt it a bit if possible

you can, but you aren't gaining much at the ultra low power bits

5:07 AM

the soc is already using very little power, your screen, vrm, fans, etc all use much more power lol

Oh yeah that's true

5:07 AM

on my phone the screen is what takes half the battery life

i mean, you might get improved battery life from lowering your volume at that point too

Or use headphones instead

5:08 AM

Some headphones get to 90dBSPL with 1mW

id use bluetooth

5:10 AM

which is gonna be more power hungry

5:10 AM

i guess

Oh and when I talked about the phone battery life, that is with bluetooth off

i never turn off bluetooth

5:11 AM

on any of my devices

5:11 AM

meow

I assume IOS has some optimization on that

5:12 AM

because on android it gets automatically turned off by the battery saver if it is not used

i am technically always connected on my phone

5:12 AM

to my watch

5:12 AM

lol

I only used bluetooth headphones for a while

5:13 AM

some cheapo skullcandy that my sister bought because she didn't want to use wired headphones

5:13 AM

after seeing that she had to manually connect the thing between the laptop and the smartphone she stopped using them lol

yeah airpods dont need that

Then I used them for a while when doing stuff like working on remodels

they automatically connect too

and the bloody switch that turns them on broke lol

5:15 AM

I will stick with my koss ksc75

so i might be playing music on the phone, pause it, and press play on the laptop

5:15 AM

and they automatically switch~

Been using them since 2014 (edited)

5:15 AM

Get a pair they are very cheap and also very good

i want headphones lately

5:17 AM

but i also want anc/transparency mode (edited)

5:18 AM

i hope the airpods max 2 are good

what's transparency mode that you can hear the outside?

yes, and Apple's transparency mode is nearly life-like

Get the ksc75 then

i forget i have the earbuds in at times,

they don't isolate in the slightless

that.. misses the point

5:19 AM

the point is that i can just say "hey siri, turn on ANC" and they magically close off lol

5:19 AM

or press them, do it from the ui

5:19 AM

etc

mmm and why would want that?

because i want ANC too

5:20 AM

depending on what's happening

5:20 AM

if i am outside i want ANC

5:20 AM

until i go to a store

5:20 AM

then i enable transparency mode

5:20 AM

etc

Like the traffic is too bad that you need to isolate when outside?

just removing background noise

5:21 AM

you've got anc headphones before?

I've had closed headphones that "isolate" the noise a bit

5:21 AM

I don't like them, I feel like I'm missing something

anc is a step above that

5:22 AM

if the frequencies are right, it can sensory deprivation like, you take them off after a day and fell like there's too much noise in just ... normal noise lol

ive got ice cream

5:37 AM

as soon as i fix this code im watching the kim possible movie

Bruh anc is amazing

5:43 AM

Mine have "transparency" by necessity because i need them to boost the world sound, but then i get a call and can just use anc to remove noise, or lower the world volume if I'm on the street

The ksc75 isolate nothing that I can just place the phone speaker next to my ear as if the headphone wasn't on the way and speak that way lol

5:44 AM

and kdeconnect already pauses the music once I get a call

5:44 AM

When I say they isolate nothing I mean nothing

5:44 AM

there's even a measurement that shows the isolate 0 dB

Are they open ears or the seal is just defective?

clip on open ears headphones

5:45 AM

https://www.stereophile.com/images/ifmeasure/KossKSC75.pdf

5:46 AM

From 20 to 2000 Hz they isolate nothing xd

5:46 AM

Well then that's the point of them i guess, open ears have great dynamics but I wouldn't use them outside

I use them outside

5:48 AM

I even use them while driving lol (not listening to music of course)

5:48 AM

The only way I see myself using closed headphones is if I live in a place where there is a constant noise I can't get rid off

Driving is different, i wouldn't expect the car interior to be very noisy

I also use them when walking and in the stores

5:49 AM

it is cool because I can talk without having to turn off the music or remove the headphones

5:49 AM

like background music from a game lol

Egdarska

Driving is different, i wouldn't expect the car interior to be very noisy

>wouldn't expect

5:49 AM

bro if im driving its on a shitty argie car

5:49 AM

its noiser than the outside fr

Lol

Samueru

it is cool because I can talk without having to turn off the music or remove the headphones

yeah, that's why transparency mode rocks

You get both

Creaky cars are mandatory here

5:52 AM

I need to wd40 the passenger's belt lock

@exio4 1.6GiB written in 12 hours

5:56 AM

Hey I also realized that getting the steamdeck to use zram instead of zswap should save a bit on the battery life as well

Poor CPU

Mine why?

6:02 AM

I'm very happy with it

No matter what, it gotta compress

There really isn't a measurable difference

6:03 AM

phoronix tested zstd compression on filesystem level for btrfs and there wasn't a difference

6:03 AM

and also iirc zswap still compresses

6:04 AM

The only thing the poor cpu has to do now is encode with x264 because I have amd lol

Amd encoding, legendary stuff

https://linuxreviews.org/Zram

Zram

zram is a Linux kernel module that allows you to create RAM-backed block devices with up to 5:1 compression. zram devices can be used like any other block device. They are typically used to make compressed swap devices using a machines RAM. They can also be used to store /tmp and anything else one might want to store on a compressed RAM-drive. F...

6:05 AM

Zram saved almost 2 hours in the compile time of chromium wiht a very crappy Athlon 5350 cpu

Does the deck use zram by default?

It uses zswap

Nice, Jaguar moment

6:06 AM

I would use zram, 16gb sucks for totk

and with a high swappiness for some reason

GoldenX86_64

I would use zram, 16gb sucks for totk

I used to play totk with 8GiB of mem and a gtx 1060 3GiB, it ram perfectly ram usage wise when using zram

Windows uses it automatically, but steamos should have an option then

Yeah mario odyssey ran out of mem on windows years ago

6:08 AM

I can even launch totk with 4GiB of mem if the zram is big enough lol

6:09 AM

And vram usage went down considerably with the last mainline update btw

More incoming

1

6:11 AM

Gidoly just tagged the other vram saver

4gb and igpu users rejoice

6:13 AM

Hell, i wanna see how it helps 2gb gpus

what

https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu/pull/13096

texture_cache: use two-pass collection for costly load resources by...

This should allow Tears of the Kingdom to run a bit better with low vram cards by avoiding dumping the ASTC environment maps until the last moment possible. I tried to reproduce the freezing-on-men...

meow

6:18 AM

totk on my pixel 3a soon

Decoded textures (ASTC on desktop, BCn on Android) will use less vram

does Adreno not support both ASTC & BCn?

Hey how is the state of the intel igpus that have astc on mesa with yuzu?

6:19 AM

better than windows

Adreno supports everything

or not even playable?

Mali and AMD doesn't

Samueru

better than windows

If you stick to opengl, better than windows

6:20 AM

If you only mean Vulkan, a tradeoff

But the native astc works right?

Windows renders some things better but crashes or has other rendering issues due to stupid arbitrary limitations, or Mesa renders lime trash

6:21 AM

The native ASTC works

i only have 38% battery left that won't be enough for watching the kim possible movie + pizza Noo

1

Lets me play totk with 16gb total fine

That's great

But on windows the driver is trash, ogl and vulkan

6:22 AM

And on linux vulkan is trash

What a shame, looks like mesa can't pull this miracle

6:22 AM

same with arc gaming on linux lol

I believe they can but it will take 3 years

6:23 AM

Remember when gcn went from opengl 2.1 to radv? (edited)

Would be funny if asashi gets the astc and vulkan working on the m1 before the intel igpus can lol

Lol, probable

6:24 AM

Asahi would help boost moltenvk too

6:24 AM

The moltenvk devs are having wayland moments, blocking critical features just because

6:24 AM

Typical linux progress, snail pace (edited)

foss is so cool, everyone gets along and works towards a common goal kek

6:30 AM

i'm still mad they took so long bitching and bickering about the eevee shadows in blender

Egdarska

foss is so cool, everyone gets along and works towards a common goal kek

Wayland is going very bad, imagine if the linux kernel had the same development where there wasn't linus dictating what was going to be done and instead everyone gets fighting for months on how should icons be rendered.

lol, i know, wayland has been "almost usable" for years now

6:31 AM

and then they change it and break it more

wayland is like argentinas economy

6:31 AM

having the potential forever

i'd not insult argentina's economy like that

kek

wasn't there also a whole distro that came out because the ubuntu team couldn't stop fighting about which desktop to use?

6:32 AM

i seem to remember that's why mint is a thing but i might be wrong

6:32 AM

i just remember the ubuntu devs always fighting about something

Like a thousand distros have come out of ubuntu lol

6:32 AM

but one of the biggest moments was when ubuntu stopped using unity

6:33 AM

that pissed a lot of people

hot take

6:33 AM

unity wasnt bad

iirc that is how the MATE desktop enviroment was born

in retrospective it was pretty good

yeah, i kinda liked it

6:33 AM

i only used it for a few months tho

But yeah now you also have forks of ubuntu which main point is that they remove snaps

6:34 AM

there are also protests distros that remove systemd from debian and arch

6:35 AM

ubuntu has become more irrelevant recently, even on the steam survey arch has more users than it

uhhh

6:35 AM

no

the world if linux mfs could stop fighting about trivial shit and focused on getting just one distro usable enough to leave windows

exio4

no

no what? steam or the irrelevant?

Samueru

no what? steam or the irrelevant?

irrelevant

6:36 AM

ubuntu is the default WSL2 distro

6:36 AM

lol

Oh you mean that

6:36 AM

I was talking desktop usage and gaming

fair

6:37 AM

how many steamdecks are out there?

a few millions

That can give you an idea of the number of linux gamers lol

6:37 AM

steamos is 42% for linux

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V96yGZl7_cU

Digital Foundry

Skull & Bones: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - And The Utterly Incomp...

Egdarska

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V96yGZl7_cU

let it die

Samueru

steamos is 42% for linux

so like 200?

pff

Egdarska

so like 200?

Maybe 1 million at most kek

i wish steam published the full number

6:39 AM

i want to know exactly how many people are still using those 1 core cpus in the survey

But holy shit you on reddit and it looks like 50% of all users are running linux lol

maybe have someone doxx them and just ask why

And the other 50% has tried at least once

yeah, i had my linux moment from 2011-2013ish

6:40 AM

never wanted to try again

Egdarska

never wanted to try again

never say never

i always still have a recovery usb though

6:40 AM

so that's using linux i guess

I actually tried to get arch installed on a encrypted usb drive so I can always have something to boot on if the ssd dies

so the best use for linux i have is fixing windows when it fucks up

but that went horribly wrong lol

6:41 AM

I think something is missing on my PC because I can't get the smart report from the HDDs when connected with usb and have to use sata

how old is the motherboard?

It is some chinesium X99 board

6:42 AM

it is "new"

you might need those usb thingies, i forget what it's called

but made of recycled parts

Samueru

It is some chinesium X99 board

lol, rip

6:42 AM

might be one of the things cut to save money

It's got usb 3.0 though

my old fx motherboard had usb 3.0 tho

6:43 AM

that's not really a "feature" nowadays

My older 1155 board didn't kek

I remember teaching people about the blue ports

And what is weird is that this new board supports nvme

i think that was one of the issues with intel, didn't they keep usb 3.0 off the lower end boards?

6:44 AM

i remember that being a thing in the fx days

Yep

6:44 AM

Typical intel

which wasn't relevant anyway because lol, usb 3.0 transfer speeds on an fx chip

i had usb3 on my now 10+ year old board

Virtualization? Pay Usb3? Pay Nvme? Pay

Egdarska

which wasn't relevant anyway because lol, usb 3.0 transfer speeds on an fx chip

I also have a PC with a FM2+ cpu

6:44 AM

that cpu is so bad

6:45 AM

so bad that it cannot saturate the gigabit port lmao

that was one of the reasons why i bought an fx 6300, it cost me like $160 with the board included, and it was completely unlocked

Fm2+, top kek of the keks

so i could overclock it to near i3 performance

1

That platform was so cursed

Samueru

I also have a PC with a FM2+ cpu

was that the amd athlon 2 x64 whatever? i think that's what mine had

Samueru

so bad that it cannot saturate the gigabit port lmao

The fucking cpu goes to 100% when downloading at limits the speed to like 300 mbps

Egdarska

was that the amd athlon 2 x64 whatever? i think that's what mine had

A8 7800 IIRC

Worst cpu ever to get an igpu with usable drivers (edited)

6:46 AM

The prices we paid

Some of those cpus actually made it to AM4 btw

6:46 AM

there were OEM only iirc

I have a 9600

6:46 AM

They were sold to the public here

Samueru

A8 7800 IIRC

mine was FM2

GoldenX86_64

They were sold to the public here

didn't know that

Had gcn3 and 2400mhz ddr4 RAM support

6:47 AM

The gpu was great, the cpu was a waste of the mobo resources

6:47 AM

Those cores were a waste on sata ssds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PrmrMQ9gJU

TechTechPotato

[32] Ian Interviews: Pat Gelsinger, Intel CEO

Gimme tldr

gib money pls

2

6:48 AM

honestly i don't know how intel ever got away with completely locked down cpus, and locking down overclocking per chipset

Locking down ram support

i actually am annoyed that overclocking is so easily allowed

Egdarska

honestly i don't know how intel ever got away with completely locked down cpus, and locking down overclocking per chipset

It starts with F and ends with X

exio4

i actually am annoyed that overclocking is so easily allowed

true corpo moment (edited)

Locking down instruction sets, SEVERAL

yeah instruction sets are cringe

Samueru

It starts with F and ends with X

lel

No sse4.1 or sse4.2 for you No avx, avx2, fma for you (edited)

but i believe stability should be something that is nearly guaranteed on consumer platforms

exio4

but i believe stability should be something that is nearly guaranteed on consumer platforms

don't buy pre-overclocked systems then

6:50 AM

but you have the option if you want

exio4

but i believe stability should be something that is nearly guaranteed on consumer platforms

disable the low power states as well

no that's fine, but XMP is shit

true

True

XMP is one of the worst things to have happened to consumer platforms

but that's an oem issue

lack of ECC is shit too

6:50 AM

intel is guilty of it

iirc nvidia does this on their server gpus, they don't allow them to go to the very low power states due to the small chance that it might crash

Samueru

iirc nvidia does this on their server gpus, they don't allow them to go to the very low power states due to the small chance that it might crash

no

yes

they do lower peak clocks

hot take, if you overclock your ram on a modern system i'm going to assume your parents never removed the old lead paint from your childhood home

1

exio4

no

Or only in linux it does that lol

Egdarska

hot take, if you overclock your ram on a modern system i'm going to assume your parents never removed the old lead paint from your childhood home

What if i enable xmp and increase ram clock speed

6:52 AM

3600 to 3933 gang

GoldenX86_64

What if i enable xmp and increase ram clock speed

leaded fuels and its effects on the human brain, showcase 1:

i mean, it's fine if it's something the ram is "certified" to do

We had leaded fuel until 2006 here

Samueru

Or only in linux it does that lol

it does that on all cards i think

You are envious i have better latency than jedec ddr5

like if you buy 4600 ram but it runs at 4200 by default, but xmp enables the 4600 and it's certified to be stable, it's just working as intended

you just need to enable "give me stability please" mode

Egdarska

like if you buy 4600 ram but it runs at 4200 by default, but xmp enables the 4600 and it's certified to be stable, it's just working as intended

no

6:52 AM

XMP isn't truly certified that way

mfs wasting 3 days to get 3200 ram to run at 3340 is just why bro

exio4

XMP isn't truly certified that way

not xmp, the ram

yes, I know, it isn't Certified™️ that way

the vendor certifies the ram for a given speed, even if it's not jdec

Egdarska

like if you buy 4600 ram but it runs at 4200 by default, but xmp enables the 4600 and it's certified to be stable, it's just working as intended

I had a 3200 xmp kit, from before 3200 was in jedec, that was unstable at 3200 unless you introduced all the xmp values manually (edited)

like i said, that's an oem issue

try getting warranty for XMP

it's just false advertising

I can't really do OC because my xeon CPU can only do 2133 mhz max lol

6:54 AM

Intel doing intel things

my point is at that point it's not the fault of the user, it's a defective product

Samueru

I can't really do OC because my xeon CPU can only do 2133 mhz max lol

Base clock time!

6:54 AM

104 to the rescue

Egdarska

my point is at that point it's not the fault of the user, it's a defective product

XMP is not "guaranteed"

The more expensive X99 xeons allow 3200 mhz

go to AMD and they'll you to fuck off go to your motherboard vendor, and they'll tell you to fuck off

6:54 AM

go to your memory, guess what you get from them too

GoldenX86_64

Base clock time!

And the V3 xeons there's a hack a allows turbo boost on all cores

1

Xmp is not guaranteed even on a stick level

6:55 AM

Its a lottery

that's my point

JEDEC is the only thing you can say it's a True Guarantee™️

regardless of whether they will take responsibility or not, it's not a user issue at that point

Or whatever kingston used on ddr4

i remember overclocking my 1600 ram on the 6300 to 1866

6:56 AM

it almost worked

6:56 AM

but the fx cpus had issues with having 4 sticks of ram

I did do memory OC on the FM2 cpu and it worked lol

That controller did 1900 on miracles

the poor igpu needed the faster mem

The igpu was so starved

6:56 AM

Even lowering timings helped a lot

6:57 AM

They also did like 50% gpu oc

AMD owns me something for having bought that FM2 cpu

Yeah, half the cores

they literally owe me money for having bought a 6300 kek

6:58 AM

i just never bothered to get the check

How much was it?

AMD owes me something from having experienced their software stack once

6:58 AM

that shit gives you PTSD and costs years of therapy to get back

Samueru

AMD owns me something for having bought that FM2 cpu

Like hopefully they do a buyback to the old FM2 and FX users like how xioami did to their early users that helped them take off when they were suffering

GoldenX86_64

How much was it?

it was $12 million divided by every user

1

it will never happen though

so like $23

Don't get me started on Intel GPU drivers Gma3150 suffering

6:59 AM

Hell gma950 suffering, I was there too

6:59 AM

Back when everyone was doing d3d10 drivers and Intel couldn't do d3d8 ones

what does intel atom n270 have

3150

exio4

what does intel atom n270 have

pain

apparently you could get up to $300 per cpu, depending on the cpu you bought

i loved my intel atom n270

but still

i want an acer aspire one d250

7:00 AM

and put an m1 on it

The d3d9 GPU that did vertex shaders on the CPU, and couldn't decode any video

smh

Is it even 64 bit?

no

and to be fair, i wasn't scammed because i knew what i was buying

Egdarska

and to be fair, i wasn't scammed because i knew what i was buying

same

The 400 series was 64 bit

my fx 6100 was stupidly cheap

7:00 AM

it was cheaper than an i3

7:00 AM

and it did virtualization

exio4

my fx 6100 was stupidly cheap

Oh shit poor soul

which mattered for me, the price competitor [pentiums] didn't do it

my 6300 did 60fps in control, i think i got my money's worth

Back when virt support was a plus

in windows 10 only, windows 8.1 was a slideshow

Win10 fixed so much of fx kek

i used linux

7:01 AM

meow

yeah, it was like getting an upgrade

No idea how good the kernel was for fx

booting was so snappy compared it's insane

If you bought an i5 2500 in 2011 that cpu would have run every game until like 2019

snappy = took a minute instead of 2

the fuck?

I had a phenom ii at the time, non-turbo monolithic quad core, no software hacks required

i consider booting to be done when the right click menu appears and firefox finally launched

yeah still

before that it has "booted" but you can't use it

Samueru

If you bought an i5 2500 in 2011 that cpu would have run every game until like 2019

bro i was using my 6300 for gaming in 2022

I hate hitting enter like 10 times on windows 11 to get the pin dialog

7:03 AM

Fucking finish booting then ask

newest game i ran on it was elden ring

7:03 AM

silky smooth 40fps

Something i love about linux on the laptop, true snappiness

GoldenX86_64

I had a phenom ii at the time, non-turbo monolithic quad core, no software hacks required

idk

Egdarska

bro i was using my 6300 for gaming in 2022

How did battlefield V run?

all CPUs need software hacks lol

Samueru

How did battlefield V run?

i never got it

7:04 AM

battlefield 1 was fine tho

Samueru

How did battlefield V run?

Did you ever try battlefield 1 on the apu? It was shit

even when you have multiple homogeneous core with a fixed frequency

GoldenX86_64

Did you ever try battlefield 1 on the apu? It was shit

Nope

you have IMU congestion, etc

7:04 AM

you have core-to-core latencies to vibe with

Egdarska

i never got it

My i7 2600s struggled on that title

exio4

all CPUs need software hacks lol

Sure, but this one didn't for thread management kek

7:05 AM

CPU dumped to L3, and downclocking was handled on hardware

7:05 AM

Too bad it didn't have real sse4

no, that's the thing

Samueru

My i7 2600s struggled on that title

battlefield 4 ran pefect though

you still need some hacks

i think the crowning achievement of that 6300 was running hyrule warriors at like 24fps in yuzu

7:06 AM

this was around 2021

Egdarska

i think the crowning achievement of that 6300 was running hyrule warriors at like 24fps in yuzu

What made you get the FX?

exio4

you still need some hacks

I suffered early k10 kernel issues It was worse than on windows

so before the buffer rewrite i think

did you fall into a meme?

it was cheap

Egdarska

it was cheap

Like cheaper than a used sandy or ivy bridge?

GoldenX86_64

I suffered early k10 kernel issues It was worse than on windows

im just saying that all cpus need software "hacks"

i don't know, i don't really like buying used

They do, but nowhere close to alder lake thanfully

cpus don't naively support multithreading the way you think they should even, the OS is a whole ass metaphorical hack

my plan was to buy it and then just buy a better pc, but i never had a moment where i thought "this is unusable"

Egdarska

i don't know, i don't really like buying used

When I bought the FM2 cpu I quickly realized how bad it was and then bought a used 1155 with a 2600s

7:07 AM

it was cheaper than the FM2 combo lol

it ran sekiro at close to locked 60 and that's all i played for a while

7:07 AM

it was fine for me

GoldenX86_64

They do, but nowhere close to alder lake thanfully

this is like comparing the power consumption of a 14900KS vs a 14900KS day to day

Then I gave the FM2+ PC to my father and he didn't like it either

it also ran jedi fallen order pretty well

I think only linux got alder lake right

Samueru

Then I gave the FM2+ PC to my father and he didn't like it either

so I bought another used sandy combo lol

fx chips were stupidly high clocked

7:08 AM

vs the later APUs

7:08 AM

you can't really compare them across (edited)

7:08 AM

FX chips did perform better

Samueru

so I bought another used sandy combo lol

Wish those where readily available here You either went used pentium/i3, or amd

exio4

fx chips were stupidly high clocked

they kinda had to, have you used an fx chip with base clocks?

Egdarska

they kinda had to, have you used an fx chip with base clocks?

yes

Samueru

so I bought another used sandy combo lol

This one had 8GB of mem + a i5 2400 + motherboard for 40 usd

7:09 AM

in like 2018

7:10 AM

I had my mango moment buying used dells lol

FX was usable APUs were trash

i hate zen1

The APUs were the same CPUs but limted to "4" cores

Samueru

The APUs were the same CPUs but limted to "4" cores

no

7:10 AM

they had clocked everything much lower too, and they also had later iterations of the architecture

Samueru

The APUs were the same CPUs but limted to "4" cores

2 hyperthreaded cores *

The entire FM1/2/2+ platform was VERY unstable too Like, Zen1 was rock solid by comparison unstable

like a cpu is not just a core

Egdarska

2 hyperthreaded cores *

its not really that either

2 cores sharing one float

exio4

like a cpu is not just a core

(you have a lot of things like the memory controlled etc, and the APUs were not "optimized" for performance, but ok power consumption)

7:12 AM

its why APUs were so shit

passmark is measuring raw throughput of the core

They also gave priority to the GPU instead of the CPU in the power balance Full GPU use left you with a dual core at 1.4ghz

not the whole ass chip

exio4

passmark is measuring raw throughput of the core

What benchmark should I look for then?

GoldenX86_64

They also gave priority to the GPU instead of the CPU in the power balance Full GPU use left you with a dual core at 1.4ghz

The athlons don't have igpu

Samueru

What benchmark should I look for then?

gaming is a good measurement for responsiveness

1

Samueru

The athlons don't have igpu

They still suck kek

As much as the FX did

Gaming on those apus was bad even with a dgpu

yeah the athlons weren't as shit but i mostly remember the APUs being

7:15 AM

uh

exio4

gaming is a good measurement for responsiveness

Very hard to find gaming benchmarks comparing the 750K to a FX4300

Samueru

Very hard to find gaming benchmarks comparing the 750K to a FX4300

nobody should have bought either kek

The "get a gpu later" deal was only true for Intel, or with Ryzen

the AMD cpus of the era are like RDNA rn

Rdna is not as bad kek

you only pick a RX6600 with the 70 gotchas because the only alternative is a 3050

exio4

the AMD cpus of the era are like RDNA rn

i dunno, were the fx cpus fundamentally broken?

7:16 AM

they were just shit

Egdarska

i dunno, were the fx cpus fundamentally broken?

yeah, the CMT architecture is like RDNA in that regard

7:16 AM

a bad architectural bet

7:16 AM

you know why GCN aged well? focusing on compute

7:16 AM

you know Pascal aged like shit? it didn't focus on compute

Egdarska

i dunno, were the fx cpus fundamentally broken?

They were impossible to schedule

Was there any difference between kaveri and carrizo?

now do you wanna know who is focusing on compute, and who isn't?

intel

carrizo was a weird refresh that amd did to FM2+

Mali

FX never had it

Egdarska

intel

Intel is too

Samueru

carrizo was a weird refresh that amd did to FM2+

The only real change was getting gcn gpus iirc

RDNA is AMD's Pascal (edited)

Samueru

FX never had it

a gaming-first architecture, that tries to have less but smarter compute

The X4 845 is carrizo btw

7:18 AM

It is actually clocked lower than the rest

just look at the architecture

Has more L1 cache

7:18 AM

but less L2 cache

exio4

a gaming-first architecture, that tries to have less but smarter compute

This would be less of a problem if they added goddamn dedicated units for denoising

GoldenX86_64

This would be less of a problem if they added goddamn dedicated units for denoising

?

7:19 AM

NVIDIA doesn't have dedicated units for denoising

7:19 AM

they have Tensor Cores™️

Those are dedicated units

tensors are vastly more generic

Its still separate die space used for it

7:20 AM

Vs dumping everything to compute

uhh

7:20 AM

its compute

But not generic

7:20 AM

Else xess would use it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqUYNYWPlpQ

Kaze Emanuar

How this emulator can get you HACKED

7:20 AM

bruh

GoldenX86_64

But not generic

it is generic

Under cuda

7:20 AM

Or nvidia rt extensions

https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4195

Cooperative matrix · Issue #4195 · gpuweb/gpuweb

All major platform APIs have now released a similar extensions for cooperative matrix: Metal introduced simdgroup_matrix in MSL 3.1 HLSL has support in SM6.8 (currently experimental release) SPIR-V...

7:21 AM

no

7:21 AM

there are instructions for it nowadays

And how do you think nvidia implements that extension for gtx cards

tensor accelerated video post processing when?

Regular compute

7:22 AM

Amd ends up doing the same

Egdarska

tensor accelerated video post processing when?

Rtx video?

yes, gtx cards don't have tensor, but rtx cards do so they're much faster at these things kek

Bingo, my point with rdna

GoldenX86_64

Rtx video?

i meant generic

There is no tensor on rdna

intel has their own things

Everything falls into compute

7:23 AM

Intel has their big ass mxm

yeah, i mean

7:23 AM

it's all compute

7:23 AM

you can run this on your CPU too

can we all just agree that all graphics cards suck and should be burned

and for example: Apple has AMX units per "CCX"

7:23 AM

you get machine learning acceleration... tensor... on your cpu!

7:23 AM

and they also put these ... on the gpu!

7:23 AM

and you have the NPU!

7:23 AM

everybody gets AI compute kek

Meanwhile rdna does fp16

Apple actually uses their hardware bits based on vibes

7:24 AM

their software stack is gonna dynamically use the CPU, GPU or NPU

7:24 AM

depending on what it sees is less utilized, and the size of the workload, etc

PT sucks on rdna because there's no specific hardware for denoising

7:25 AM

Compute is carrying everything

7:25 AM

And as you say, it's smaller

GoldenX86_64

PT sucks on rdna because there's no specific hardware for denoising

or ray tracing

daily reminder fucking APPLE has more technically advanced RT acceleration in than RDNA3 by now

7:25 AM

what the fuck is happening

amd gonna amd

the goddamn phone company

I hope amd gets the memo and adds a tensor equivalent already (edited)

with their underwhelming GPUs

7:26 AM

is outperforming AMD

they will if sony forces them to

yeah microsoft is forcing them too

7:26 AM

it's not a question of if

7:26 AM

it's a question of when lol

Microsoft threatened to go arm or Intel for the next xbox

fully intel xbox

Intel will push hard for it

Egdarska

fully intel xbox

Back to the OG kek

that would honestly be pretty great, intel would have no choice but to get their gpus together

Egdarska

fully intel xbox

or perhaps another intel-nvidia "match made in hell" xbox like the og

Ada xbox, would not suck

How terrible how the Phenom II performed like a FX cpu lol

the og xbox was great tho

the og xbox rocked i agree

GoldenX86_64

Ada xbox, would not suck

would probably be the next architecture

i just got so bored and exhausted of seeing so many Intel CPU Nvidia GPU PCs before Ryzen that i don't wanna see anything like it on consoles

1

but console gaming with dlss is already a huge win

Blackwell? Doubt it Nvidia sells you outdated crap

now add fake frames and suddenly it's pretty decent

7:29 AM

immortals of aveum is suddenly looking like a native 1080p game

Jensen: Oh you wanna make a console? Here, have some ampere

Egdarska

immortals of aveum is suddenly looking like a native 1080p game

reflex

7:29 AM

that too

Where is intel's take on reflex

LukeTheVideoGamer

i just got so bored and exhausted of seeing so many Intel CPU Nvidia GPU PCs before Ryzen that i don't wanna see anything like it on consoles

like i know there's a reason Intel and Nvidia dominated (and in some cases still dominates) their respective markets but there's only so many different configurations of blue and green before it starts muddying into a blur

We have ryzen now, don't worry

i played god of war in the 30fps mode on a ps5

7:30 AM

it felt so fucking bad

7:30 AM

how do console bros get used to it? (edited)

u dont

7:30 AM

its all copium

Remember when ryzen got released, and nvidia tweeted "finally a real cpu for our gpus"

no because i was 13

Hah zoomer

The OG xbox one and PS4 pulled some miracles with the cpus they had

i dont remember it either

yeah yeah laugh it up

exio4

i dont remember it either

You were born with turing, remember

plus i was a little preoccupied with my fancy schmancy Nintendo Switch at the time

LukeTheVideoGamer

yeah yeah laugh it up

he laughs because he misses his childhood years

Samueru

The OG xbox one and PS4 pulled some miracles with the cpus they had

kinda, but most games that were actually impressive were locked to 30fps

GoldenX86_64

You were born with turing, remember

i only followed turing cuz of tensor

7:32 AM

lol

7:32 AM

i actually didnt care about gpus

7:32 AM

before

Egdarska

kinda, but most games that were actually impressive were locked to 30fps

The cpus were worse than the FX cpus, they were FM1, like those cpus could not run anything on pc lol

they were very limited in RAM amounts and performance/$ didn't make sense

exio4

i actually didnt care about gpus

Shame, the raster race era was amazing

i didnt mean the rt stuff

7:32 AM

i actually just became interested when tensor hit consumers

my first "actual" gpu was a 550 ti

it was a holyshit moment for me

Egdarska

kinda, but most games that were actually impressive were locked to 30fps

This acutally caused the witcher 3 to run better on the FX 8350 than on the i5 2500, because that game used all cores lol

it was uh

but i understood i was a nerd

LukeTheVideoGamer

Click to see attachment 🖼️

what

Samueru

This acutally caused the witcher 3 to run better on the FX 8350 than on the i5 2500, because that game used all cores lol

yeah, it ran pretty well on my 6300 compared to more expensive intel cpus

7:33 AM

pretty well = only went down to 35fps in novigrad

7:33 AM

rest of the game was pretty much 60fps

Egdarska

pretty well = only went down to 35fps in novigrad

A SUCCESS in my book!

The FX paid off lol

im eepy

7:34 AM

i have the keys for the car

also cyberpunk ran at locked 30fps on that fx, which is pretty insane

when my dad wakes up im driving to his place

Egdarska

also cyberpunk ran at locked 30fps on that fx, which is pretty insane

Really?

shame the game wasn't worth playing

meow

but yeah

Nvidia having the software and hardware lead with the 8000 seriws, then amd punches in value with the hd3000 series Then nvidia gets both value and performance with 9000 series, but sells overpriced trash with the fist gtx 200 series, and amd responds with the great hd4000 series and with a faster than nvidia hd 5000 series... The fight before rt was real stuff, not this landslide

Samueru

Really?

cyberpunk is very well optimized actually

Gpus are boring now

GoldenX86_64

Nvidia having the software and hardware lead with the 8000 seriws, then amd punches in value with the hd3000 series Then nvidia gets both value and performance with 9000 series, but sells overpriced trash with the fist gtx 200 series, and amd responds with the great hd4000 series and with a faster than nvidia hd 5000 series... The fight before rt was real stuff, not this landslide

this is all copium if u were doing compute on gpus

GoldenX86_64

Gpus are boring now

yeah, its either nvidia or nvidia

exio4

cyberpunk is very well optimized actually

I would like to know the opinion of a non biased party on this kek

we're back to the bulldozer days w/ cpus

GoldenX86_64

Nvidia having the software and hardware lead with the 8000 seriws, then amd punches in value with the hd3000 series Then nvidia gets both value and performance with 9000 series, but sells overpriced trash with the fist gtx 200 series, and amd responds with the great hd4000 series and with a faster than nvidia hd 5000 series... The fight before rt was real stuff, not this landslide

even before rt, if you needed to do anything else you needed nvidia

exio4

cyberpunk is very well optimized actually

it is now. have u seen that shit back at launch? shit barely functioned, even without everything clipping into the floor or being flung around by the broken physics

cuda is 17 years old now

exio4

this is all copium if u were doing compute on gpus

You purchased a quadro back then, not a geforce Market was well separated, healthy

LukeTheVideoGamer

it is now. have u seen that shit back at launch? shit barely functioned, even without everything clipping into the floor or being flung around by the broken physics

i played the game at launch bro

amd gpus have been trash for non-gaming tasks for close to 15 years now

Egdarska

amd gpus have been trash for non-gaming tasks for close to 15 years now

yeah but ai tho

Ati was never good outside gaming

7:36 AM

Make that 20 years

nvidia was good but the win vs cpus wasnt like

7:36 AM

150x

GoldenX86_64

Ati was never good outside gaming

lmao, remember radeon ProRender?

just like 10x

Zoomers asking wtf is ati

Egdarska

amd gpus have been trash for non-gaming tasks for close to 15 years now

For gaming the last true competitor AMD had to the top of nvidia was the 290x wasn't it?

7:37 AM

From there amd hasn't been able to do competition on the top end

the amd path traced renderer that performed way better on nvidia consumer gpus than the workstation amd gpus it was designed for?

Samueru

For gaming the last true competitor AMD had to the top of nvidia was the 290x wasn't it?

Yeah, gcn3 to rdna1 was always a loss

@LukeTheVideoGamer first achievement i unlocked on cyberpunk

GoldenX86_64

Zoomers asking wtf is ati

i know what ATI is because i grew up with a GameCube and a Wii

I think the 290x aged better than the 780 ti though

yeah

same with the 680 vs 7970

for gaming

Kepler aged like shit

kepler still has more software support than vega tho

7:38 AM

for a few more months

i kinda want to see where my old 960 stands in cuda performance versus modern amd

Egdarska

i kinda want to see where my old 960 stands in cuda performance versus modern amd

Dude a 1030 whips it

Egdarska

i kinda want to see where my old 960 stands in cuda performance versus modern amd

amd might do better* *if the workload runs

i remember using blender cycles in the viewport with cuda denoising and it was "usable"

otherwise, it wins by default

Running is a prerequisite

Egdarska

i kinda want to see where my old 960 stands in cuda performance versus modern amd

The 2GB of vram are a pain on that card

GoldenX86_64

Running is a prerequisite

that's the joke

just get the 4GB version

for a lot of compute, NVIDIA is your sole choice because AMD can't run lol

2GB version should have never existed

exio4

for a lot of compute, NVIDIA is your sole choice because AMD can't run lol

still thinking about dat laptop review

7:39 AM

we couldn't give benchmarks because it can't run shit lmao

Egdarska

still thinking about dat laptop review

they discontinued it btw

7:39 AM

iirc

7:39 AM

lol

Though I will admit something, when I bought the 1060 3GB in 2018 no game that ran at 1080p used all the vram, only a few at 1440p did

7:40 AM

then after the pandemic something happened lol

i want vram for compute

exio4

they discontinued it btw

damn, they killed it faster than vega

Game devs destroyed vram use

Samueru

Though I will admit something, when I bought the 1060 3GB in 2018 no game that ran at 1080p used all the vram, only a few at 1440p did

bruh why would you buy that?

i lowkey hate amd shipping good vram amounts

cheap, probably

Use medium textures on a game now and you want to puke

it is funny

Egdarska

bruh why would you buy that?

Had it for like 170 usd at the time

Ampere suffering

exio4

i lowkey hate amd shipping good vram amounts

"i wanna run something on that mofo, please support it"

7:41 AM

multi-GPU compute is better/exists on NVIDIA too

Samueru

Had it for like 170 usd at the time

wait, was it the gddr5 version?

over PCIe

if so that's, not fine, but alright

AMD is lol no

7:41 AM

just give up

Egdarska

wait, was it the gddr5 version?

I don't think there was a 1060 that a different mem though

Samueru

I don't think there was a 1060 that a different mem though

there's 3, actually

lolwut

LukeTheVideoGamer

there's 3, actually

I mean being GDDR5

Iirc they all were gddr5, but different capacity

7:42 AM

3gb, 5gb, 6gb

there was 3, 5 and 6GB

5?

5GB being china only iirc

exio4

5?

yeah

Yeah, goddam 5

Samueru

I mean being GDDR5

ah ic

based

ah yeah, i was thinking of the 1030, 1060 all had gddr5

7:42 AM

i want one of those chinese cards

7:42 AM

just for fun

you can get a 7900 GRE

7:43 AM

4090d

radeon power (edited)

7:43 AM

4090D is fine

7:43 AM

its a slightly nerfed 4090

Like 2% nerfed

Egdarska

i want one of those chinese cards

My 580 is Chinese, it is actually a 570 if you look at the specs

lol

7:43 AM

china moment

7:43 AM

at least it wasn't a "total" lie

Amd also released a even more cut down version of the 570 called 565x or something like it

Samueru

My 580 is Chinese, it is actually a 570 if you look at the specs

love the 2048SP RX 580

Did you try a bios flash?

i'm also planning on doing a desktop build in a few months

LukeTheVideoGamer

love the 2048SP RX 580

FineWine™️ Encoders

I can feel the wine getting finer every day

so true

Its vinegar by now

is there a 4070 version with decent amounts of vram?

12?

7:45 AM

We also have 12

7:45 AM

And 12 (edited)

Egdarska

is there a 4070 version with decent amounts of vram?

There's a weird RX 6600M for desktop, they took the laptop chip and put it on a dedicated gpu lol

rip

Or you can be an idiot and pay extra for the 16gb 4060ti

bitch i might

Egdarska

is there a 4070 version with decent amounts of vram?

4060 Ti 16G exists, usually discounted to like 430-440

i mean, if you count the Ti Super as a 4070, that has 16GB... but it's also overpriced and underperforming yet again

it has like 3.5% worse perf/$ than higher SKUs

Imagine paying 400 bucks for 200 bucks pcbs

you pay 200 for the software

Worst excuse ever

Nvidia software is not that good

yeah, i kinda want something with more than 12GB of ram

it's better

7:46 AM

because it exists

wut

it's great but it's like $100 value at best

LukeTheVideoGamer

it's great but it's like $100 value at best

You have chosen death with exio lol

if you do AI the 4060 Ti outperforms the XTX

7:46 AM

just FWIW

LukeTheVideoGamer

it's great but it's like $100 value at best

being able to run whatever compute task i want is worth more than $100 to me

and if you do blender, the 4060 Ti outperforms the XTX too

not $1600 for a high end gpu tho

exio4

if you do AI the 4060 Ti outperforms the XTX

If you purchase a 7900 for aiz get shot

exio4

and if you do blender, the 4060 Ti outperforms the XTX too

that's not fair, even a 3070 outperforms it

We're talking gaming

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Exio must have this imagine saved on his pc at this point

He does

Like I've seen it like 10 times already kek

GoldenX86_64

We're talking gaming

then you turn on any modern feature

Samueru

Exio must have this imagine saved on his pc at this point

kek

GoldenX86_64

We're talking gaming

yeah, let's measure IQ then

Egdarska

being able to run whatever compute task i want is worth more than $100 to me

im talking about the actual value of da software 4060 ti shoulda been $329 from the start is what im sayin!

Egdarska

then you turn on any modern feature

Buh muh fsr3 shimmering

exio4

yeah, let's measure IQ then

i don't wanna play this game

7:48 AM

oh you meant image quality

what the fuck could i have meant

7:48 AM

smh

don't make me post the fsr2 4k image again

the stupid "knowledge" IQ that's a scam

4060ti should be 350 tops, its a goddamn 128 bit bus card

this is another pic i have saved on it

With half a pcie slot

i'd buy one for $400

Intel sucking ass too

but that's about my limit for a lower end card

exio4

this is another pic i have saved on it

Just you wait for rocm kek

Or that cuda hack

Samueru

Just you wait for rocm kek

10y later

20

maybe 15 lol

if you don't care about image quality at all

7:50 AM

then i assume a 6600 + FSR2 Ultra Performance

7:50 AM

is the best value card out there

Better than a 3050

not until AMD gets its shit together and has a worthwhile upscaler

7:51 AM

3050 and 6600 are competing with each other for a reason

exio4

is the best value card out there

The best value card might be some cheap 5700

7:51 AM

dlss is modded in btw, fsr2 is a dev implementation

rdna1 has better drivers

Samueru

The best value card might be some cheap 5700

.... no? you get mesh shader'd, amd software

exio4

3050 and 6600 are competing with each other for a reason

yeah because Nvidia can't price their cards for shit :)

Rdna1 is only usable on linux

pick a 3060 12G, used (edited)

1

And also of course I talk about linux

Just get a 3060

if we're talking about better value and quality doesn't matter then an amd APU wins

that's the best value card

exio4

pick a 3060 12G, used (edited)

can you get a used 3060 for 140 usd?

Used, 3060, new, still 6600, thank you nvidia

7:52 AM

You can here at least

Samueru

can you get a used 3060 for 140 usd?

no...

Samueru

can you get a used 3060 for 140 usd?

value isn't about absolute price

Hah shitty used market

used market is the only way to buy a GPU

Yep

exio4

value isn't about absolute price

i found a 550 ti for $40, best value ever

Thank you nvidia again

Egdarska

i found a 550 ti for $40, best value ever

??? for that much I can probably get 1050 (edited)

it's about the whole package, you can find a RX 6400 for less than the 5700

Egdarska

i found a 550 ti for $40, best value ever

The 580 is 50 usd but from china

I would take a 1030 over a 550ti

that's the point yes

is it better value because it is cheaper?

best value ever

Oh fuck the party is over

7:55 AM

@exio4 350 for used 3060s

just can't run anything but it's cheap

GoldenX86_64

@exio4 350 for used 3060s

i saw some for 300 on ebay

meow

7:56 AM

alright, i had to restart discord

7:56 AM

so, i was saying, value is about the overall package meow

Latest news, the 3060 12gb is trash, the 6600 continues to be the value king

the lowest price ive seen on eBay for 3060 is about $200 or so not factoring in shopping or tax

3060 12G is still a better buy than the 6600

7:56 AM

for most people

Not for 300

shipping* fuck you autocorrect i hope you die in a fire

what's the RX 6600 here?

like... $200...

7:57 AM

new...

that's fine, 3060 12G is a 50%+ better card easily

at least US pricing

250

250 => 300 lol

7:57 AM

easy choice

But yeah in real markets its 180 new

7:57 AM

180 new vs 300 used

7:57 AM

Warranty

3060 is also low 200s at times

7:57 AM

yeah you have to pick your poison

7:57 AM

it isn't the greatest in that regard

GoldenX86_64

Latest news, the 3060 12gb is trash, the 6600 continues to be the value king

Maybe one day the A580 as well

The day Intel has drivers

7:58 AM

In 2077

not so much. a lot of people do also value the usual guarantees of buying new: that is to say, it likely won't arrive DOA unless you get really unlucky, and you have an actual fucking warranty

180 usd and you have good AV1 encoding

LukeTheVideoGamer

not so much. a lot of people do also value the usual guarantees of buying new: that is to say, it likely won't arrive DOA unless you get really unlucky, and you have an actual fucking warranty

same

I see a lot of progress on d3d12, but zero on vulkan with intel

Samueru

180 usd and you have good AV1 encoding

AMD doesn't have encoders for practical purposes

7:58 AM

i downloaded this

7:58 AM

all their GPUs are metaphorically aligned with the RX 6400 in this regard

7:59 AM

the RX 6400 is just honest about it

7:59 AM

that's a bit too harsh tbh

Samueru

180 usd and you have good AV1 encoding

(6600 is $180, 7600 with the actual AV1 encode support still floats at like $220-$250 new in the states)

LukeTheVideoGamer

(6600 is $180, 7600 with the actual AV1 encode support still floats at like $220-$250 new in the states)

no, AV1 on RDNA3 is broken

7:59 AM

it's actually broken

7:59 AM

not just lower quality

exio4

no, AV1 on RDNA3 is broken

i don't fucking care shut the fuck up

exio4

i downloaded this

is that the final fantasy knockoff thing? (edited)

Av1 in rdna3 needs a whole overhaul that will happen 5 years in the future, maybe

Egdarska

is that the final fantasy knockoff thing? (edited)

yes

GoldenX86_64

Av1 in rdna3 needs a whole overhaul that will happen 5 years in the future, maybe

it is broken in hardware

"it's actually broken!!!!!!!!!!!!" thog don't care

KEK

i don't care spending money on broken hardware

is this how amd gained market?

Egdarska

is this how amd gained market?

yes, pretty much

Broken hardware is fun

8:00 AM

You wanna buy an arc

arc is mostly "fixable" though

8:01 AM

and they've actually tried to fix it

Battlemage is fixable

unlike amd's "buy the next one it will be fixed" approach

I'm more into Arc for testing their shit, not actually using it; for "personal use" I'd prefer Battlemage or whatever

Argentina is fixable

Hah

alchemist is fixable because the hardware is actually good

Good try

Argentina is more fixable than RDNA

8:01 AM

they need a Zen moment

8:01 AM

to get out of their Bulldozer era

8:01 AM

rn

exio4

Argentina is more fixable than RDNA

true lol

Nah, alchemist is as good as it gets, 3060 performance, 3070 power consumption

exio4

Argentina is more fixable than RDNA

too bad they fucked up the ceo promotion

it's not great, hell it doesn't even stack up fully to RDNA2 in a few cases, but alchemist's problems, so far, have only been in power consumption and software

Its impossible to solve that, its just rdna1, or fermi

Alchemist can get better but it's unlikely it'll do a major leap outside of the broken games

8:02 AM

but, the software stack can get finewined

8:02 AM

for compute

8:02 AM

AMD could do it too

8:02 AM

but they haven't done so in 15 years

exio4

Alchemist can get better but it's unlikely it'll do a major leap outside of the broken games

I just want mesa to fix the games that don't even boot lol

thankfully, there are about 800 broken games on ARC because they use DX11 and older :)

Best alchemist can hope for is to get the fixes battlemage drivers will get

that's one part where i think the whole value thing matters, as long as the power use isn't insane, a cheap intel card once it's fixed is pretty good value

Samueru

I just want mesa to fix the games that don't even boot lol

Kernel 6.8

Egdarska

that's one part where i think the whole value thing matters, as long as the power use isn't insane, a cheap intel card once it's fixed is pretty good value

yeah

GoldenX86_64

Kernel 6.8

Will see

it's already more usable than amd's flagship in blender

if Arc was "at worst" like a RX 6600, RX 6600 XT, and did 3070 performance in select titles

8:03 AM

you get XeSS XMX for Good Upscaling™️, Blender, etc

8:04 AM

basically, what AMD should be

i don't know if they already added intel's new ai denoiser or if it's still in testing, but it exists unlike amd's

oh my fucking goddd

so that's one step ahead already

I wouldn't buy arc for blender when optix exists

they need to fix the games w/ 3050 performance or don't boot

GoldenX86_64

I wouldn't buy arc for blender when optix exists

the point is comparing it in value against other cards

GoldenX86_64

I wouldn't buy arc for blender when optix exists

it's about overall value

if you don't want to pay for nvidia prices, intel vs amd is not even a fight

Stick to gaming, anything else is mandatory nvidia

GoldenX86_64

Stick to gaming, anything else is mandatory nvidia

thankfully that's what i do already

that's the thing tho, if you do value other things, but not like, super strongly...

DIRT Rally 2

let's say you mostly game, but you like messing with blender every once in a while

i don't need my gpu to do complex machine learning or modeling i need it to let me drag some noobs

8:05 AM

frag*

8:05 AM

I WILL KILL YOU GBOARD

AMD is e-waste value in that hypothetical lol

GoldenX86_64

Stick to gaming, anything else is mandatory nvidia

stick to gaming, and not care about image quality

There's zero argument if you do anything else, even if it is watching sdr content in hdr, nvidia is mandatory

Egdarska

stick to gaming, and not care about image quality

or input latency

Egdarska

stick to gaming, and not care about image quality

Like a true esport player

8:06 AM

4:3 no shadows gaming

GoldenX86_64

Like a true esport player

esport player, input latency

image quality, input latency, all lies invented by Jensen himself (edited)

8:06 AM

i have been rizzed by tech bob ross personally

now i want to see an esports level match with fsr3 on a 7900 lol

i am this close to blocking everyone in this conversation and then blocking myself

I wanna see intel's reflex and framegen

8:07 AM

Radio.silence since arc

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/author/bcatanzaro/ wish he could adopt me so i could ask for early previews of cool new tech

Author: Bryan Catanzaro | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Bryan Catanzaro is vice president of Applied Deep Learning Research at NVIDIA, where he leads a team finding new ways to use AI to improve projects ranging from language understanding to computer…

Also where the hell is the code of xess (edited)

yoo they what

GoldenX86_64

Also where the hell is the code of xess (edited)

does the github not have the code?or is it just binaries?

its mostly documentation iirc

imho radeon's "Zen moment" is nearing us, probably sooner than any of yall expect

1

Mesa has to hide the vendor on xess titles because they cant figure out how to make it work

lol

LukeTheVideoGamer

imho radeon's "Zen moment" is nearing us, probably sooner than any of yall expect

Yeah ill cheer once i see it

8:08 AM

Wake me up

someone who still hasn't had their faith in amd destroyed by amd over a decade

8:08 AM

it warms the heart

i bet argentina will fix its economy soon too

Egdarska

someone who still hasn't had their faith in amd destroyed by amd over a decade

My moment was when mantle was a complete fiasco

I saw gcn rot, rdna suck

that was like 2013 lol

it's less "it will happen" and more "i'd rather take an optimistic approach, even after knowing how bad they have been and could be"

i've been waiting for an amd card worth buying longer than half this server has been alive

even da best of us gotta be delusional to see a change sometimes‼️

well

8:09 AM

no, the change will happen

At this rate, Intel will figure out how to do drivers before amd figures out you need to hire people

delusion or not, it's on AMD's engineers and management to do it

GoldenX86_64

At this rate, Intel will figure out how to do drivers before amd figures out you need to hire people

Indeed

yeah, I'm more hopeful for Intel

GoldenX86_64

At this rate, Intel will figure out how to do drivers before amd figures out you need to hire people

i think we had already been over this, i have fully changed my stance and expect intel to have a usable gpu before amd

8:09 AM

they just had a really rough launch

Meanwhile, AFMF rocks and nvidia has no response, in your face jensen

amd cpu intel gpu or intel cpu amd gpu

but intel has been trying to fix it, and actually has made progress

LukeTheVideoGamer

amd cpu intel gpu or intel cpu amd gpu

which will prevail?

amd is just hoping everyone will defend them as usual

LukeTheVideoGamer

which will prevail?

Qualcomm cpu and gpu

arm cpu nvidia gpu

GoldenX86_64

Meanwhile, AFMF rocks and nvidia has no response, in your face jensen

dont worry nvidia's response will be with the 5090 (it will only be available on next gen cards)

1

When is powervr getting vulkan support lol?

Egdarska

but intel has been trying to fix it, and actually has made progress

it isn't just that, they also have shown to care about compute like, at their "core" - they launched their "CUDA" before their GPUs existed lol

And for zero reason

8:11 AM

Intel added ai cores to xeons before gpus kek

Samueru

When is powervr getting vulkan support lol?

ask the asahi team

8:11 AM

lmao

8:11 AM

this is just funny ngl

Asahi deals with AS only thankfully

Will yuzu ever run on powervr in the next 5 years?

"it runs on everything"

Mesa tried to do powervr, they gave up

8:12 AM

Its that bad

so powervr is still shit?

We can joke on amd, but they do a driver Those things are a crime against humanity

my only knowledge of powervr is with like early android

Its still like that

Samueru

Will yuzu ever run on powervr in the next 5 years?

Apple's GPUs are PowerVR-derived

every game would have a driver you needed to download with the game and powervr usually just said lolno

will yuzu run in my brain in the next 5 minutes?

AFAIK they haven't shipped a vulkan 1.3 driver still

GoldenX86_64

AFAIK they haven't shipped a vulkan 1.3 driver still

jesus

Still 1.1

how long has 1.3 been out? like, 4 years or something?

Less but vulkan just turns optional stuff into mandatory

why is my internet like this....

Its zero job to get 1.3 support if you ever cared

my router switched to AMD fr

It fell to PL2

now i have another question, do i go for am5

i'd wait

I would

or intel lol

all CPUs are shit right now

Wait for next Intel socket

8:15 AM

Then decide

AMD has broken software, good cores, but their idle is shit

nah i'm joking, i'll just buy am5, next amd cpus will be am5 right?

Yes

exio4

AMD has broken software, good cores, but their idle is shit

i don't care, it's a desktop

Intel is like as long as you don't use 2 cores we're efficient bro

Egdarska

i don't care, it's a desktop

do you use sleep

2? 1, pulling 410w alone

am5 still has their sleep bug

not really, i turn it off when i go to work

But 7ghz yo

Dear Yuzu Team, I am writing to request that you add support for PowerVR GPUs to your emulator. I believe that this feature is essential for the greater good of the gaming industry and the world at large. Without support for PowerVR GPUs, Yuzu will be unable to run on a wide range of devices, which will lead to a decline in the quality of gaming experiences for billions of people around the world. It is imperative that Yuzu supports PowerVR GPUs, as failure to do so will have disastrous consequences for the gaming industry. Without support for these GPUs, Yuzu will be unable to keep up with the demands of modern gaming, which will lead to a decline in the quality of gaming experiences. This will ultimately harm the industry as a whole, leading to a decline in birth rates, as people become less interested in having children due to the declining quality of gaming experiences. Furthermore, the lack of support for PowerVR GPUs will have a negative impact on the environment. As more and more people turn to gaming as a form of entertainment, the demand for high-performance GPUs will continue to rise. Without support for PowerVR GPUs, Yuzu will be unable to run on a wide range of devices, which will lead to an increase in the number of GPUs that need to be produced. This, in turn, will lead to an increase in the amount of energy that is required to manufacture and power these devices, which will contribute to global warming and other environmental problems.

3

Egdarska

nah i'm joking, i'll just buy am5, next amd cpus will be am5 right?

Zen4 (current) and Zen5 (next-gen)

AI is amazing lmao

that's it really

8:16 AM

you might get Zen6 if they fuck up

Zen5+

In addition to these concerns, the lack of support for PowerVR GPUs is a clear example of class struggle. By failing to support these GPUs, Yuzu is effectively discriminating against people who cannot afford high-end devices. This is unacceptable, and it goes against the principles of equality and fairness that are so important to our society. If Yuzu fails to support PowerVR GPUs, what other kind of hardware will they fail to support in the future? It is essential that Yuzu takes a proactive approach to supporting all types of hardware, regardless of their cost or popularity. Failure to do so will lead to a decline in the quality of gaming experiences, which will ultimately harm the industry as a whole. Moreover, the lack of support for PowerVR GPUs will lead to a decline in the quality of life for billions of people around the world. Gaming is a vital part of our culture, and it provides entertainment and employment to billions of people. Without support for PowerVR GPUs, Yuzu will be unable to keep up with the demands of modern gaming, which will lead to a decline in the quality of gaming experiences. This will ultimately harm the industry as a whole, leading to a decline in birth rates, as people become less interested in having children due to the declining quality of gaming experiences.

Zen4+

8:17 AM

(wait that's just the Ryzen 8000 APUs shit)

why yuzu not run on my samsung galaxy 3? (edited)

update to the galaxy 4 nerd

Samueru

In addition to these concerns, the lack of support for PowerVR GPUs is a clear example of class struggle. By failing to support these GPUs, Yuzu is effectively discriminating against people who cannot afford high-end devices. This is unacceptable, and it goes against the principles of equality and fairness that are so important to our society. If Yuzu fails to support PowerVR GPUs, what other kind of hardware will they fail to support in the future? It is essential that Yuzu takes a proactive approach to supporting all types of hardware, regardless of their cost or popularity. Failure to do so will lead to a decline in the quality of gaming experiences, which will ultimately harm the industry as a whole. Moreover, the lack of support for PowerVR GPUs will lead to a decline in the quality of life for billions of people around the world. Gaming is a vital part of our culture, and it provides entertainment and employment to billions of people. Without support for PowerVR GPUs, Yuzu will be unable to keep up with the demands of modern gaming, which will lead to a decline in the quality of gaming experiences. This will ultimately harm the industry as a whole, leading to a decline in birth rates, as people become less interested in having children due to the declining quality of gaming experiences.

Dude, the only thing that screams AI is that no android kid is old enough to be able to write line this

1

lmao

lol, samsung still has the store pages for old phones, this is great

8:18 AM

i miss physical home buttons

It has a 12mp camera!

8:18 AM

And an early amoled screen thwt saturates colours to space and back!

8:19 AM

To think my first ips display... was an android nokia phone

GoldenX86_64

And an early amoled screen thwt saturates colours to space and back!

samsung still does that

8:20 AM

vibrant mode or whatever they call it is unusable

The s24 reduced it and people got angery

i haven't seen an s24

Defaults to srgb

but lol, they got used to shit and want it back

8:20 AM

that's funny

Yep

Egdarska

but lol, they got used to shit and want it back

gamers with anti-aliasing:

Gimme back msaa32xhq

mine is ips and also has a higher than srg vibrant mode, but it just makes everything look like a badly made youtube video

ipad game

Kek

exio4

ipad game

Where Android support on windows 11 Argentina

GoldenX86_64

Where Android support on windows 11 Argentina

just sideload it lol

8:22 AM

it works for me

I was promised Android support, billy

bro he got no respect

No face

i still don't know what that tom thing is

8:22 AM

my sister has it

Remember pou everywhere

yeah

God damn it android

funny tamagotchi

i see

8:23 AM

that cat looks fucking cursed

8:23 AM

it looks like those "animal crossing for pc" games

it's requesting my goddamn microphone what the fuck

1

When everyone was doing pou, i was vibin with ppsspp and disgaea on a single core phone with 512mb

exio4

it's requesting my goddamn microphone what the fuck

Oh you have to see the sort of permissions that android apps request lol

8:23 AM

Fuck me the tplink app even wanted my contacts lol

this totally legit calculator just wants permission to read all my messages, seems ok

To think it used to be accept all or nothing in Android 4

8:24 AM

This app wants the following permissions Lists everything

Egdarska

this totally legit calculator just wants permission to read all my messages, seems ok

Accept decline

Samueru

Fuck me the tplink app even wanted my contacts lol

This is why I'm a mikrotik shill now, more newer routers can only be setup thru a phone

contacts microphone access to the launch codes storage

8:25 AM

aight

Mine still works over https

Thankfully

8:26 AM

Ah but for some reason QoS bias is phone only

i kinda like having the app though

2

i'm at work and the app is like yo a new iphone connected to your router

8:26 AM

hol up the house is empty

Dude, i had old clients sucking my wifi for months

8:27 AM

Until i manually checked

8:27 AM

Decided to limit them to 1kbps upload instead of kicking them

lmao

8:27 AM

savage

Can't even open google

8:28 AM

But connection is good thou

1

GoldenX86_64

Can't even open google

a fate worse than death

Samueru

This is why I'm a mikrotik shill now, more newer routers can only be setup thru a phone

Another cool thing is that all mikrotik routers can be used as load balancers as well, that thing that routers have one wan port only is a software limit

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Why

I can even add a USB to LTE adapter and it will work with it

GoldenX86_64

Why

you ever see something and wonder "how would this feel like"?

Mikrotik is no joke

Egdarska

you ever see something and wonder "how would this feel like"?

Yeah but i still wanna use that solder

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

That solder will still work, but you will have to pull short sections lol

just drip it on the connection

subway surfers at home goes so hard

8:30 AM

its got no mtx so you get 10 million diamonds and coins

That's outrun, you zoomer

i won't believe none of y'all have never wasted something because you wondered how it would feel to ruin it

I did...

8:31 AM

Worth it tho

my life doesn't count

Egdarska

i won't believe none of y'all have never wasted something because you wondered how it would feel to ruin it

I did this as a kid to a oreo cookie lol

GoldenX86_64

That's outrun, you zoomer

whats the difference

temple run on wheels

Check gameplay of the og outrun (edited)

8:32 AM

So many games copied it

it's a very simple concept tho

True fist good looking "racing" game

i'm sad there aren't as many missile game copies as there used to be

True

there was a series of those for 3ds that were pretty good

8:33 AM

air race, i had all of them

just made this bad boy travel to the future fr

and another one i forget the name, but it was basically guiding a ball falling into a well

8:33 AM

kerploosh

8:34 AM

https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Kersploosh!

Kersploosh!

Kersploosh! is a downloadable videogame for Nintendo 3DS released on the Nintendo eShop in 2013. The main idea is that the player will get to experience the insane trip stones take when you throw...

exio4

just made this bad boy travel to the future fr

Chum, you got chromed up like a gonk

@exio4 play air race

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_Run boomer subway surfers fr

Out Run

Out Run (also stylized as OutRun) is an arcade driving video game released by Sega in September 1986. It is known for its pioneering hardware and graphics, nonlinear gameplay, a selectable soundtrack with music composed by Hiroshi Kawaguchi, and the hydraulic motion simulator deluxe arcade cabinet. The goal is to avoid traffic and reach one of f...

Or delta the fuck out

exio4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_Run boomer subway surfers fr

Today you learned

8:35 AM

That game rocks, even today

i cant take away permissions while the app is running

Kek

GoldenX86_64

That game rocks, even today

they made it for pc https://zgzinfinity.itch.io/out-run

Out Run by ZgzInfinity

A new remake of the mythic game Out Run of 1986 available now for PC

1

deleting talking tom

8:39 AM

im bored of it already

8:39 AM

i need subway surfers but without the mtx

exio4

i need subway surfers but without the mtx

that remake thing has a linux version

i've played the genesis version

8:40 AM

it's not the same

https://github.com/ZgzInfinity/OutRun/releases

Releases · ZgzInfinity/OutRun

A new version of the game Out Run of 1986 for PC using SFML and C++ - ZgzInfinity/OutRun

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/subway-surfers-tag/id1526309639 this one goes too "advanced"

‎Subway Surfers Tag

‎- SURF INTO THE YARD AND ALWAYS KEEP MOVING Join the Crew across multiple off-limit, interactive city locations. Skate over the retired trains in the railyard, play in the park after dark, pick up some power-ups at the cargo docks or investigate the mysterious underground. But watch out! Guard is n…

8:40 AM

the heck is this

exio4

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/subway-surfers-tag/id1526309639 this one goes too "advanced"

have you played thumper?

no

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/thumper-pocket-edition/id1573868980

‎Thumper: Pocket Edition+

‎Thumper is rhythm violence: classic action, blistering speed, and brutal physicality. You are a space beetle. Brave the void and confront a maniacal giant head. With this special pocket edition, you can play all nine epic levels with one hand. Hurtle forward, master new moves, and survive terrifyi…

8:42 AM

i don't know if the apple version is any good, but the game is cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdRGg5810bk ?

Polygon

10 Minutes of THUMPER Psychedelic 'Rhythm Violence' Gameplay: Level 4

8:43 AM

i have uh

8:44 AM

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2009450/Invector_Rhythm_Galaxy/ i own this

Invector: Rhythm Galaxy

From Warner Music Group and award-winning indie game studio, Hello There Games, comes the next exciting chapter of the critically acclaimed rhythm game series, Invector: Rhythm Galaxy.Navigate breathtaking, celestial worlds to the beat of chart-topping hits from today’s most popular artists, including PinkPantheress, Charlie Puth, Duran Duran, a...

Price

$24.99

thumper is also vr

8:45 AM

they dont have it on mac

but i don't know where it's available

i assume they made it not run on macOS cuz no input methods

8:45 AM

and forgor about vision

wot

8:45 AM

bruh, it just uses a controller or keyboard

apple arcade usually is ios-first

How different is macos from ios?

still, don't they have controllers?

they might not, if it supported controller it could be emulated on apple silicon lol

8:47 AM

btw thumper was one of the first games available on stadia

8:47 AM

it was uh

8:47 AM

almost playable

8:47 AM

almost, not really tho

super hexagon

Egdarska

btw thumper was one of the first games available on stadia

bro

8:48 AM

its a rhythm game

i am a online streaming is based guy but this needs hyper consistent input lag

it's funny because i thought i just sucked at it, but then i tried it on pc native and it was amazing

or it fucks with up

8:48 AM

im eepy i fucked tha tsentnce up

you accidentally

8:48 AM

but yeah, i saw some copium on reddit about the game proving stadia latency wasn't bad

8:49 AM

i couldn't even finish the tutorial

8:49 AM

maybe if you're already used to ps4 30fps gaming you can get used to it

kek

8:49 AM

invector rhythm galaxy

8:49 AM

i've played on deck

8:49 AM

it actulaly sucks balls at 30 fps

8:49 AM

60 is great tho

8:49 AM

locked 60 is not like, peak or anything, ubt it gets you 3 hours of battery life still

8:50 AM

at least

8:50 AM

meow

i tried to play hollow knight at 30fps just for fun

8:50 AM

it just can't happen

Have you played the phoenix wright games? iirc they had ios release

i have not really played any ios games

8:51 AM

i'm gonna play that final fantasy one

8:51 AM

but like

i was gonna recommend geometry wars but it seems like it's not on apple anymore

Samueru

Have you played the phoenix wright games? iirc they had ios release

The story is great, but it is long!

i've got:

warframe's latest port (it is shit btw)
sonic dream team (it's fine, still a sonic game tho)
gta remastered editions (better than on switch i guess )

last phoenix wright game i played was the one with the cute clown

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001316442962153535/1209660087329620088/RPReplay_Final1708472634.MP4?ex=65e7babf&is=65d545bf&hm=c7c293a9db40432dadb0e0f1f3b853d626cfd23fe031ad58f1ec5e1d78acff76&

8:53 AM

(tbf, this is worst case, it was overheating from charging, with 30+C ambient temperature as I hadn't turned on the AC yet)

oof, those camera turns

the stuttering fucked me up

8:53 AM

i knew it had a 30 fps cap so i was like "motion blur time"

8:53 AM

and it was shit motion blur

8:54 AM

i'd hate if that is someone's first impression of warframe

8:54 AM

the game is pretty fun

Egdarska

last phoenix wright game i played was the one with the cute clown

I actually didn't finish dual destinies, phoenix wright really died for me after apollo justice

Egdarska

i'd hate if that is someone's first impression of warframe

it was my first impression

the gyakuten kenji games were peak though

also 30fps cap lol

yeah

8:54 AM

it runs at 30? on switch

60fps is about the minimum i'd take for warframe (edited)

it can do 60 on my shitty phone i swear

8:54 AM

and 90+ on the 15 pro or whatever

lel

8:55 AM

i just think there are games that really just shouldn't be on mobile

Egdarska

i just think there are games that really just shouldn't be on mobile

oh

its fine to have games that can't run on a device

8:56 AM

this is the UI for the mods

specially ones that actually need smooth performance

on a 5.4" phone

re8 at 30fps with 20fops drops is whatever

it's so fucking useless

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

bruh

i got that menu

8:56 AM

and i thought they were shitting on me

so they just reused the same menu

also, the game is on iOS/iPadOS, but it isn't on macOS natively?

if only there was half the screen empty on the left to make the letters bigger

like, don't they know they can.. just enable the iPad version on macOS?

exio4

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001316442962153535/1209660087329620088/RPReplay_Final1708472634.MP4?ex=65e7babf&is=65d545bf&hm=c7c293a9db40432dadb0e0f1f3b853d626cfd23fe031ad58f1ec5e1d78acff76&

Motion blur: YES

Egdarska

so they just reused the same menu

they just ported the game

8:58 AM

like, this is straight up "a port", they didn't do anything but that if you play with a controller

yeah, but resizing the ui should be easy

no, that is apparently too much effort

8:58 AM

if your game is made in such a way that resizing the ui is hard you already fucked up

8:58 AM

based cdpr

the whole game is unplayable on my 5.4" screen

8:58 AM

i know it's small

8:59 AM

but like, fams, the fuck is going on there

tmaybe they forgot the minis exist

8:59 AM

which to be fair i do all the time

it looks the same on the 6" phones

i only know because of you and recently because i have to use one

1

its still unplayable but now it doesn't cause eye strain

8:59 AM

just a headache

lol

8:59 AM

i guess it's playable on ipad

yeah lol

but then, how does that work

does resident evil 4 have a benchmark

Egdarska

but then, how does that work

controller / keyboard+trackpad

with a controller, do you just use an ipad holder? (edited)

9:00 AM

i mean more the logistics of holding it

exio4

does resident evil 4 have a benchmark

also no

do i have to play it

best you can do is just start a new game and just run to the door without moving the camera

im sorry what the fuck is this resolution lmao kek

based 16:10

9:02 AM

makes sense, 1600x900 is a common widescreen resolution, they just added the 100 pixels

9:03 AM

how much ram do you have? on the mac

its running on my 1440p display (running at 2160p with 2x scaling, so 1080p-like)

Egdarska

how much ram do you have? on the mac

32gb

because the game needs a lot of vram available for the textures to look good

9:03 AM

so you can crank it up then

9:03 AM

in the textures available whatever put something like 6 or 8

its set to 8

nice

but i want to run it at 4K

9:04 AM

rn

9:04 AM

MetalFX Quality is quarter res

9:04 AM

and 1080p => 2160p downsampled to 1440p is fine by me

also turn off the chromatic aberration

9:04 AM

it fucks with image quality too much

i already did

9:05 AM

i can hear the computer's fan

9:05 AM

it's joever

rip

9:05 AM

yoo https://apps.apple.com/us/app/taiko-no-tatsujin-pop-tap-beat/id1463360242

‎Taiko no Tatsujin Pop Tap Beat

‎Sync to the rhythm and drum away to those notes! The traditional Japanese drumming rhythm game, Taiko no Tatsujin, comes to Apple Arcade. Features ・Four difficulty levels: Easy, Normal, Hard, Extreme ・Play various modes and collect lots of costumes! ・Drum against your friends online! H…

the heck is that

a good game

9:05 AM

though it's probably not as fun without the drums

Drums rhythm game, fun stuff (edited)

alright i enabled the hud

9:07 AM

had to restart the game lol

i hadn't thought about using the dk bongos for this game

9:08 AM

might need to look for them

9:08 AM

i'm pretty sure exio never played dk jungle beat

9:10 AM

45-50 fps in this area?

rip

image quality seems rough with metalfx quality because im running at some weird ass resolution

9:10 AM

and i think im cpu bottlenecked now

the game gets really heavy when you get to the village

70-80 fps at quarter res lol

Why the black box?

nvm with FSR1/MetalFX Performance it does 120 fps lol

though maybe the apple secret sauce ™️ helps

memory bandwidth bound i assume

Moonlacer

Why the black box?

apple

Moonlacer

Why the black box?

16:10 resolution, on a 16:9 display, with vibes or something

9:12 AM

i'm sure if i close the lid on the laptop, it'll recognize the main monitor as the main monitor

stretching the game is too resource intensive i guess

That's dumb

45 => 80 => 100+

Egdarska

stretching the game is too resource intensive i guess

it already does that for the whole desktop

9:13 AM

i think this is the game not vibing well rn

9:13 AM

macOS gaming is insanely cringe

you don't have to tell me

9:15 AM

gamepass on mac when?

9:15 AM

wait, you can use the streaming right?

yeah

9:15 AM

that's just a browser lol

they have re2 and 3 on game pass now

exio4

that's just a browser lol

i meant the app

vsync seems broken?

with re4?

it still struggles at locking at 60

wait, does the mac version use the same files? can you use mods?

i doubt it does 100%

9:17 AM

lol, all i can find is people asking if mods work

9:18 AM

yeah, i'd expect the paks to be the same, i'm more talking about the internal formats

oh

9:18 AM

no idea

9:18 AM

also i dont own the game

because capcom likes to update the model/texture formats with engine updates

im playing the demo

there are mods for the demo too

does the demo on other platforms unlock the main game through an IAP?

but, they require either unpacking the pak, or using a program to install the mod by invalidating the file location but that's windows only

exio4

does the demo on other platforms unlock the main game through an IAP?

no, i hadn't thought about that

9:19 AM

the pc demo is just the village

9:19 AM

so i'm guessing yours is the full game and just the executable is different

9:19 AM

or maybe it unlocks with a dlc file

high refresh rate macOS gaming

the best modding tool wouldn't work anyway, reframework is a dll

exio4

high refresh rate macOS gaming

but i get 200fps bruh

(1080p, MetalFX Performance, so 540p spatially upscaled to 1080p)

9:21 AM

its so bad

if it's smooth i'd play like that tbh

9:21 AM

i'll take cringe IQ with smooth performance over quality 30fps shit any day

this is with the temporal upscaler

exio4

this is with the temporal upscaler

is that 50%?

540p

9:23 AM

so yea

looks almost like fsr2, but not as cringe

metalfx is not dlss tier

you can make out some detail on the jacket and hair

it's quite far from that

9:23 AM

but it's alright for what it is supposed to do (upscale iOS games on phones)

performance is ok too

9:24 AM

i would expect something like that to be way heavier, but it makes sense that it's so performant if it's for phones

that looks Fine™️

9:25 AM

dat hair tho

Egdarska

you can make out some detail on the jacket and hair

metalfx quality IME is less shimmery than fsr2

9:26 AM

but hair is still death

9:26 AM

yeah

tbf that's partly on the game, the hair rendering is dubious

9:26 AM

it only looks good with dlss

9:26 AM

or the hair strands but lol

only looks good with dlss

have you turned hair strands on?

i love when image quality is brand specific

the hair strands look smooth as fuck, but the shading is kinda eh

can't find the option

1

on battery saver mode lol

exio4

can't find the option

might not be on mac

meow

9:30 AM

40-41W for the whole laptop

9:30 AM

540p to 1080p upscaled

9:30 AM

i made it into efficiency yes @Egdarska

9:30 AM

you can't stop me

9:30 AM

lol

9:31 AM

90fps with that power is pretty good

locking to 60 barely changes the power consumption lol

i can't find any answer on whether the mac version has hair strands, but it would be weird not to have it

9:32 AM

it's just spline hair

exio4

locking to 60 barely changes the power consumption lol

get those fps gains

9:33 AM

that's a thing on my gpu too and i don't know what parts makes it behave like that

yeah its the memory subsystem mostly afaik

gpu locked to 90fps, running at 96%, unlocked frame rate runs at 120 and 98% usage, same frequency

this thing has very efficient memory

9:33 AM

but gaming still fires up the crap out of it

9:33 AM

bandwidth is needed

9:34 AM

only got 400 GB/s

9:34 AM

for the whole computer

can you go in settings again and see if hair strands is an option?

yes

9:34 AM

where

it should be before the enemy animations setting

9:34 AM

in graphics

9:34 AM

it just says Hair Strands:

there?

i'm mostly curious to see how performance is on mac with it, i always turn them off because they look weird

9:35 AM

yeah, i guess it's not there

F

9:35 AM

there's no raytracing either

oh

this m2 max technically supports raytracing the amd way

RT is cringe in re4 anyway

yeah but its lightweight

it's only for reflections in Certain surfaces and it looks like shit

i wanna know how rt performs

9:36 AM

in like, actual workloads

9:36 AM

other than solar bay lol

RE village doesn't have rt on mac either

yea

9:37 AM

blender tho

and that's the one where it actually makes a difference

9:37 AM

i'll check blender updates

9:38 AM

there's kind of a performance hit but it looks so nice tho

im on blender 3.6

9:38 AM

what is the latest

4.0

9:38 AM

completely new

damn i missed a few

yeah, but they jumped numbers

9:38 AM

they don't necessarily go to 3.9

internet isnt useless rn

like blender 2, spent ages in 2.7, then jumped to 2.8

9:39 AM

blender 2.71 to 2.78 was like 6 years

thats impressive

9:40 AM

oh 3.6 was mid 2023

9:40 AM

i'm only 9 months behind lol

9:40 AM

i think there's better performance on the latest release

9:40 AM

somebody was optimized the metal backend or something

yeah

optimizing*

9:40 AM

finewine

Egdarska

yeah

i still can't cope with Apple having MetalRT before their GPUs had hardware RT

9:41 AM

and AMD taking 3 years for it and doing 3% improvements

9:41 AM

fucking lmao

9:42 AM

how are they getting beaten by apple? they didn't even make "computer gpus" until 3 years ago

9:42 AM

and they need to a whole custom stack too

small indie company

what's a good small blender benchmark

9:43 AM

classroom?

9:43 AM

blender installed :3

9:45 AM

they supported OpenGL??

9:45 AM

(on macOS)

9:48 AM

lol i only get intel's denoiser

9:48 AM

@Egdarska how bad is it

it's actually really good in quality

9:49 AM

but it's slower

9:50 AM

i can't use it in real time on my laptop, it's too slow

9:50 AM

but you should use it for final renders instead of optix

oh

exio4

they supported OpenGL??

also yeah, eevee was opengl only

so you use optix for real-time

yeah

and intel's for renders

9:51 AM

not bad

optix is good enough that you can use it if you have enough samples, but that's a dumb use of time

9:52 AM

because you can get the same or better results with less time using less samples and intel denoiser

rendering classroom rn

9:52 AM

also, here's a comparison of regular hair and hair strands

60W+

it looks noticeably "better" but it doesn't mesh with the rest of the character anymore

9:53 AM

it doesn't look like it's supposed to be the same model

9:53 AM

did you do the render without changing any parameters?

9:54 AM

just download and run?

i changed the gpu compute

9:54 AM

backend

9:54 AM

it was on cpu (edited)

9:55 AM

i might have fucked up

9:55 AM

meow

nah you can change backends it's fine

link me to the clean file and i'll try again, this is part of the folder I had on my 5800x called "blender benchmarks"

9:55 AM

with just this file

you just shouldn't change anything else like sample optimizations

9:55 AM

because that goes against the point of the benchmark

yeah lol

9:55 AM

i'll download it again i think

9:57 AM

trying again

32s

9:57 AM

on gpu

9:57 AM

we won't talk about power draw

m2 max doesnt have hardware rt

9:58 AM

m3 outperforms this laptop iirc

i can do cuda

giving apple a fighting chance fr

that looks like half performance lol

this took 1 minute now, i assume i changed something by accident

9:59 AM

i assume whatever i changed in the past made it more demanding (edited)

not quite half, 55s

seems fair

i won't do cpu, i want to sleep at some point

m2 max (w/o hardware RT) ~ a bit slower than 3060 (w/ cuda, because it doesn't get to leverage RT cores hard)

10:00 AM

im trying with MetalRT off rn

10:00 AM

will do a dumb run first cuz it needs to compile shaders

vega 8 doing 1 sample every 3 seconds with hip

10:01 AM

lets fucking goooo

10:01 AM

amd can finewine that bad boy to 4090

bro no fucking way

did it fuck up the render...

the cpu is doing faster with hiprt

10:02 AM

than the igpu

based

i'm laughing so hard rn

10:02 AM

the cpu is doing like 1 sample per second

lol

10:03 AM

that isn't even that good

no

10:03 AM

but it's 3x faster

seems like MetalRT doesn't do much when you don't have hardware raytracing

it did 100 samples in 2 minutes

(or also, because Apple/Blender engineers optimized it already on normal Apple Silicon to not really benefit from "driver raytracing" lol)

Egdarska

it did 100 samples in 2 minutes

i'm getting similar results

exio4

m2 max (w/o hardware RT) ~ a bit slower than 3060 (w/ cuda, because it doesn't get to leverage RT cores hard)

this is the slowest m2 max AFAIK

using cpu+gpu with optix makes it slower lol

lol

instead of helping the cpu is holding the gpu back

m2 max on the 16" gets like a 40%+ bump in tdp, and this is the base m2 max so its missing gpu cores

now do some settings optimizations to see how fast the mac can really render

100 samples took longer lol

10:07 AM

apple crying rn

Egdarska

now do some settings optimizations to see how fast the mac can really render

which ones? I actually dunno

10:08 AM

some of these?

10:08 AM

would the mac benefit from tiling?

10:08 AM

i don't know how fat the gpu is in general

10:08 AM

i shaved a whole second by using 512x512 tiles

oh, smaller tiles = better?

10:09 AM

it'd help with cache utilization

10:09 AM

i assume

no, it depends on architecture

10:10 AM

for example 128x128 tiles destroy performance on my gpu

10:10 AM

render time goes from 32s to 39

10:10 AM

gpus usually benefit from larger tiles, up to a point

yeah i tried 512x512 and it dies

10:10 AM

its gonna take like 80 seconds nowl ol

cpus want small tiles

10:11 AM

tile size used to destroy performance on gpus more, if you used 128x128 like for example if you wanted to use gpu and cpu at the same time, gpu performance would plummet like 5x

1 minute 8 seconds

now it's not as bad but still not ideal

1080 tiles

my gpu seems fine with 512x512 and up, there's no difference between 512 and 2048

512 is already a regression here

also, try the new view transform and compare it to standard

10:15 AM

or the old filmic

2048

10:15 AM

the default tiling setting was best, shocking

Egdarska

also, try the new view transform and compare it to standard

wut?

they use agx now

where?

color management, at the bottom of the options

(trying AgX)

10:17 AM

performs the same?

10:19 AM

anyways, performance is mid

yeah, it's just a view transform

biggest advantage of apple silicon is that i get 20GB of VRAM lol

it's applied to the final image

M3 Max can have 128GB total RAM - so ~100-110GB of total VRAM

blender can use system ram anyway, it's just slower

10:19 AM

it's not an issue like it used to be

i remember my 2060 super going from SPEED to it's alright

10:20 AM

tho

trying to use a 2GB card with blender 2.72 was pain

10:20 AM

you can just use 4 high quality textures and it's gone

10:21 AM

but i did learn a lot of tricks to maximize texel density

man this vram discussion always pisses me off

10:21 AM

amd offers so much vram for cheap

10:21 AM

and its worthless for what i want vram for...

10:21 AM

machine learning/llms and rendering... (edited)

10:22 AM

my 2060 super can outperform the 7700 XT or 7800 XT if the workload fits in vram... ?????

forgot about the sampling, see if it helps on mac

I lowkey wish I could just SLI 4060 Ti 16G

Egdarska

forgot about the sampling, see if it helps on mac

where

in sampling>advanced

10:23 AM

there's an option that says scrambling distance

10:23 AM

automatic is unchecked by default, check it and do a render

alright

on mine it drops form 32s to 28

10:24 AM

gpu only though

10:24 AM

there's also a lot of optimizations that can be done for stuff like transmission

10:25 AM

but those always have a quality tradeoff

it had to optimize kernels

10:25 AM

but it still rendered first, i'll have to re-render lol

yeah, it changes how the sampling is ordered so it has to change kernels

10:25 AM

but yeah even with that it was faster for me

got 59.58 seconds before

10:26 AM

59.37s now, it's slightly faster

lol, compared to not checking it?

this is performing better than I expected, NGL

or what was the base time?

Egdarska

lol, compared to not checking it?

no, the base time was like 1m5s

ah

so not a small difference

so the difference is about the same as on my gpu

10:27 AM

and this is one of those things where it might make a bigger difference with more complex scenes

yeah classroom isn't complex for modern standards i'd say lol

i'm thinking it's going to help a lot with things with lots of low light bounces

I mean, what about increasing samples a bit to offset the lower quality

10:28 AM

would that end up ahead in quality

this one shouldn't affect quality, it's basically free performance for gpus

10:29 AM

all it does is change the randomness of the samples, but you're going to get rid of the noise anyway

oh

things like approximate GI does change quality

its just a noise pattern thing lol

yeah

10:30 AM

but gpus hate having to update the pattern too much every sample

makes sense tbh

10:31 AM

it trashes caches and shit lol

to really piss off the "REAL RAY TRACING" folks use approximate GI

10:31 AM

it fakes the bounces lol

where is that

10:31 AM

in options, under light paths

?

the problem is with one bounce it looks like shit

10:32 AM

but for simple renders and no point of reference it's a huge time saving

those are defaults

10:33 AM

what can I try?

render bounce 1 looks like shit, it's like going back to ue4 after using lumen lol

10:33 AM

2 bounces is "alright"

so i set it to 4

that might run slower than just doing it for real

10:34 AM

3 bounces runs the same as just doing it for real for me

10:34 AM

the only usable settings seem to be 1 if you don't have much bounce lighting and 2 if you need the time savings

10:35 AM

2 bounces is 25s vs 28 of the normal render

4 still saved time

might be an architectural difference then, 3 bounces ran the same for me

10:35 AM

only like .2 seconds faster

10:36 AM

the real fun is when you start using volumes

this is 2

10:37 AM

1

yeah, 1 renders fast as fuck

10:38 AM

but uh

10:38 AM

image quality is fake

10:39 AM

big rendering created it to sell us gpus

the funniest thing is, thanks to Nvidia™️ now the old tricks aren't even worth it

10:40 AM

baking lighting and adding it in post to save render times takes longer than just rendering it

i assume the gpus with hardware rt dont really benefit from this

unless you're doing a really long animation where lighting doesn't change

exio4

i assume the gpus with hardware rt dont really benefit from this

they do

10:41 AM

even with hardware rt this is a lot of work

10:41 AM

with some volume rendering

10:41 AM

increase your render times by 50% with this one weird trick

i mean the fake gi

exio4

i mean the fake gi

i know, it still helps

rip

went from 32 to 15s

10:45 AM

with 1 bounce

i mean the usable ones

2 bounces is still a lot faster, 24s

3 is still an improvement here

10:46 AM

pretty big one

so it's kinda worth using if you're not going for ultra realism

and 4 is a tiny bit faster

like if you're doing a stylized render, just fake everything

10:47 AM

one downside of everything being so good by default in blender now is that there aren't any more "magic" settings

10:48 AM

you can still get some gains, but it's nothing like the old days of going from 10 minutes to 50 seconds

amd crying rn

10:50 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKGpaU4ffnk @Egdarska what song is this 'clearly referencing to'?

Andrew Underberg - Topic

Out For Love

idk

@exio4 i guess volume is so hard to denoise it doesn't really matter which denoiser you use

10:58 AM

or maybe optix just got better recently

could be

11:03 AM

nvidia doesnt stop optimizing shit

11:03 AM

lol

11:03 AM

(if they care about it)

exio4

(if they care about it)

pour one out for hairworks

i mean i just feel like thats them realizing it was kinda a dead-end

11:06 AM

like dlss1

i still find VXAO hilarious

11:06 AM

it was dead before it came out

11:06 AM

that was the voxel AO that killed performance

rt at home fr

11:08 AM

>A few months ago we started working with Nixxes Software to help them integrate VXAO into Rise of the Tomb Raider game, and it was successfully released in a patch last week. This is the first use of VXAO in a real world game, and it proves the point that VXAO is the next step in ambient occlusion technology. There are plenty of game locations where VXAO shines. For example, many indoor locations start looking much more natural – see Fig. 5 and 6.

i'm still mad ue4 got rid of svogi before release

https://developer.nvidia.com/vxao-voxel-ambient-occlusion

VXAO: Voxel Ambient Occlusion

11:08 AM

nixxes

yeah that's the only time i've used vxao, rise of the tomb raider

11:09 AM

are there even more games that used it?

11:10 AM

i forgot about final fantasy 15 lol

11:11 AM

also are there even any games that use optix curves? that's the successor to hairworks

use what

exio4

use what

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/optix-sdk-7-1/

Nefi Alarcon

NVIDIA OptiX SDK Tackles Hair and Fur with Release 7.1 | NVIDIA Tec...

OptiX SDK 7.1 is the latest update to the new OptiX 7 API. Version 7.1 introduces a new curve primitive for hair and fur, tiled denoising, and improved debugging and profiling.

11:21 AM

they have RT curve rendering for hair and fur

11:21 AM

but i don't think any game uses them

11:22 AM

though they seem to be aimed at offline rendering

11:22 AM

just seems weird that hairworks seems to be dead and they don't have a good replacement

maybe marketing didnt work out

maybe we'll have good hair rendering by dx15

11:24 AM

ue5 has really good hair rendering, but it still leaves a lot up to the dev, so rip

Egdarska

ue5 has really good hair rendering, but it still leaves a lot up to the dev, so rip

so it doesn't

it's kinda hard to have something that always looks correct but also doesn't limit the developer

11:30 AM

and the problem is that even if the shader is perfect it will still require the hair cards to be made a certain way, and if they use spline hair then it will be up to how the dev animates it

Egdarska

and the problem is that even if the shader is perfect it will still require the hair cards to be made a certain way, and if they use spline hair then it will be up to how the dev animates it

just use machine learning lol

1

exio4

just use machine learning lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFKFoGiGlXQ

Kaze Emanuar

Finding the BEST sine function for Nintendo 64

12:04 PM

i wish this mf had gotten obsessed with ocarina of time instead

12:04 PM

we'd have it running 60fps on hardware by now

1

lol

12:08 PM

hes funny

12:09 PM

because you can tell he doesn’t think about anything but n64 hardware

he lucked out by getting the useful autism

1

12:11 PM

it's also amazing because it's not like with other stuff where knowledge is unlocked because of new technology or software

12:11 PM

almost everything he's come up with is stuff the original devs could have done with their knowledge

12:11 PM

or like, with knowledge that was available at the time

12:13 PM

in case you didn't watch it, the biggest change was using a formula from a 7th century indian mathematician to speed up the sine calculation

Egdarska

in case you didn't watch it, the biggest change was using a formula from a 7th century indian mathematician to speed up the sine calculation

i had watched this one

I woke up late as fuck yesterday and now I can't sleep

Egdarska

I woke up late as fuck yesterday and now I can't sleep

relatable

Egdarska

I woke up late as fuck yesterday and now I can't sleep

Do a 30 minute body workout.

Egdarska

i wish this mf had gotten obsessed with ocarina of time instead

I didn’t finish the video yet, but does it result in anything I can use to improve my n64 games?

3:18 PM

Also, does the new Nvidia App still allow you to stream games? That’s the only thing from GF Experience that I would miss (edited)

Mango9999

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I somehow managed to never have a Zip drive

deadlybydsgn

Also, does the new Nvidia App still allow you to stream games? That’s the only thing from GF Experience that I would miss (edited)

afaik, the new app is basically just a geforce experience reskin.

3:26 PM

So, probably yes.

deadlybydsgn

I somehow managed to never have a Zip drive

that one there is pretty cool because it's an oem non official internal zip drive. not a mega common thing

SleepingSnake

afaik, the new app is basically just a geforce experience reskin.

it's not just a reskin, they changed some stuff

1

3:40 PM

they removed most of the ansel features, now it's just a photo mode

3:41 PM

but now there's 120fps recording

Egdarska

they removed most of the ansel features, now it's just a photo mode

An important note for Moonlight users (who haven't switched over to Sunshine): the new app apparently removes the Gamestream backend used by Moonlight for game streaming.

5:34 PM

Is sunshine something I can use outside of Nvidia drivers to do the same thing? I’ll have to check. Today is busy with the kids and a bday party

yes

hehe recently i was like 'damn, my laptop is so fkin slow these days, gotta replace it'

10:14 PM

today i opened a fan control app

10:14 PM

and CPU fan wasn't working

10:14 PM

and laptop was throttling

10:14 PM

now i fixed it ay

piernikowy

hehe recently i was like 'damn, my laptop is so fkin slow these days, gotta replace it'

and if you have hdd replace it with ssd will be really great for laptop

turned out the cpu fan stopped

10:45 PM

because i left a screw there somewhere

10:45 PM

behind the fan

10:45 PM

and it got stuck

10:45 PM

broke some wings but still working fine

piernikowy

because i left a screw there somewhere

I can imagine you saying kurwa when you found that out

yes kurwa

1

Just imagine if Windows detected the Nintendo Switch Pro Controller as a HID over USB

Mango9999

Click to see attachment 🖼️

old tv and whatever that contraption above it is

more about software, but i just built a new PC and this is my first time using Windows 11. i went out of my way to bypass the OOBE to make a local account without logging into a Microsoft account. if i log into a Microsoft account now that im all set up, would it be impossible to get rid of like when you sign up at first install? or can i just sign right back out if its after that OOBE screen?

9soulz

more about software, but i just built a new PC and this is my first time using Windows 11. i went out of my way to bypass the OOBE to make a local account without logging into a Microsoft account. if i log into a Microsoft account now that im all set up, would it be impossible to get rid of like when you sign up at first install? or can i just sign right back out if its after that OOBE screen?

It should still be possible, you may have to create another local account and remove the other one, perhaps

i actually remember on Windows 10 you can log out because i remember logging out of one account for Minecraft to log into the other. it should be fine.

how can i get prodigs

I managed to end up with two separate Minecraft accounts due to the way Mojang handled the Microsoft account thing

@exio4 i can't deal with 4GB in a phone anymore

5:25 PM

How did apple users do it?

5:26 PM

Lol there's still low end phones coming out with 3 and 4GB, that's not even low end anymore

4GB in an iPhone is like 8 in an Android, duh.

nodders

Seriously though, I never felt like my iPhone couldn't do anything I was trying to do with it. I just do phone stuff

6:28 PM

Whereas my budget androids of the past definitely felt budget

6:29 PM

We'll see what I do when I stop receiving OS updates, which is this next version. iOS18 won't support my phone from 2018 (Xs Max)

Apple doesn't make budget devices octolingSip

6:37 PM

Generally, yeah, but the SE might as well be budget in most ways outside of the processor

6:38 PM

A recent processor but with a worse screen, camera, design, etc.

deadlybydsgn

Generally, yeah, but the SE might as well be budget in most ways outside of the processor

Cuz everything other then the processor is recycled from their previous phones

1

deadlybydsgn

Generally, yeah, but the SE might as well be budget in most ways outside of the processor

It's still a $400 phone

6:42 PM

The SE4 is rumored to be even more expensive

6:42 PM

Since they will do away with the home button and have it adapt a look more like the XR

I sure hope so. I wasn't sure what was going on with it, but switching to old XR bodies makes sense

6:54 PM

iPhones make sense for me since I'm in a niche where I use a Mac at my day job and take a lot of photos and videos for work purposes. The long term support doesn't hurt, either, but I'm also not buying brand new phones for MSRP

I'll buy high end when they're not $1200 starting price (edited)

7:04 PM

Redmagic fits that bill for me

I don't see the appeal to the really big phones, either. An iPhone Pro (non-max) of a recent year would be enough for me

7:20 PM

I have literally shot multi-angle social media vids and airdropped them onto my laptop to double check timing and things in Final Cut for the person being filmed. Again, it's super niche, but super handy (edited)

I don't like huge phones either

7:42 PM

6.7" is enough

6.8" is perfect

7:58 PM

6.1" is too small

3

Moonlacer

6.8" is perfect

Specifically 6.8" Redmagic bricks

8:27 PM

The Samsung curve is dumb

8:27 PM

They kept the rounded edges on the S24U but started using a flat screen

8:27 PM

Literally useless and just makes the phone wider

I'd rather have 6.1". My Xs Max is larger than I'd like. The screen is nice but my wife's normal iPhone is just easier

I can't type on a phone that small

8:45 PM

Only real ones know

Moonlacer

Only real ones know

Nope, am a real person, I ain't got a clue what are these.

ISO collection

9:10 PM

For installing OSes

Moonlacer

For installing OSes

All greek to me, pal.

Egdarska

How did apple users do it?

apple doesn’t use java

11:50 PM

basically apps will use a lot less memory + the OS frameworks are better designed for low memory situations, people have tried comparing gmail vs gmail app etc and ios is almost always ahead by a lot

11:56 PM

also, iphones being funny fast for the time means you will prefer wasting cpu cycles over caching everything in memory, an app I worked on would prefetch only one page rendered ahead of time at best while you would need to prefetch more on android or a budget soc would choke

11:57 PM

iphone 6s is still similar in single core to budget phones of today btw, basically 9 year old iphone

apple with 8 gb now is great tho

TIL https://asus-linux.org/guides/fedora-guide/

12:05 AM

even better battery life, hell yeah

Moonlacer

They kept the rounded edges on the S24U but started using a flat screen

Ifrc it was just to make the s23u back covers unusable for the s24u

exio4

apple doesn’t use java

I've found android apps to use 3x more mem than similar apps on linux. One is auxio which uses 300MiB while deadbeef on linux which has a ton of features uses less 100 MiB

Egdarska

6.7" is enough

hear me out

1:13 AM

large phones are great

1:13 AM

aslong as the ui is good

1:13 AM

i could easily use an 8 inch phone if the software was good

1:14 AM

but a 5 inch phone with bad software is impossible

Egdarska

6.7" is enough

What is that, a phone for ants?

1:41 AM

6.7" is for tiny baby hands.

1:41 AM

6.8" is for gigantic man hands.

SadSinglePringle

but a 5 inch phone with bad software is impossible

I don't think there's software good enough that can make a 5" phone good

Remember the Dell Streak? That was a 5" "phablet" and we thought it was enormous. (edited)

1:49 AM

"Phablet" was what we used to call large phones, i.e. phones which are tablet sized.

1:49 AM

Except it meant 5" back in 2010.

1:50 AM

Do phablets even exist anymore? Phones have stagnated at 6'8" for about 5 years now. Anything bigger is either a foldable, or an actual tablet with a cellular modem in it.

Yeah, and i struggled with ny phone back then

1:50 AM

Shitty ass 4'' samsung thing

How small were your hands back then?

About the same size

Also, phablets are just a normal phone now

1:51 AM

Thank god

Oh the memes.

1:53 AM

1:53 AM

I unironically want an iBoard for my kitchen.

1:54 AM

Apparently

1:54 AM

Steve Jobs' daughter is called

1:54 AM

Eve Jobs

1:54 AM

I remember the galaxy note 3 being huge, it was 5.7 inches lol

: 0

@exio4

3:21 AM

it's about the gre not the xtx kek

3:22 AM

i mean, i guess "targeting" is meaningless

3:22 AM

you can miss

the GRE is funny because its only a few % better in raster, but the wide CUs give it a "real lead" over the 7800 XT in RT

3:22 AM

so older RT titles perform pretty decently

what about the meme mesh shaders game?

3:23 AM

This new-ish GPU is priced at the same $549 as the RTX 4070, but it offers better performance

3:24 AM

the problem for alan wake 2

3:24 AM

is that dlss ray reconstruction is actually a massive performance advantage for nvidia

3:24 AM

but that's getting into image quality territory

lol, i was wondering how it tied the 4070 in alan wake 2

3:24 AM

high preset lmao

DLSS ray reconstruction offers better IQ than the denoisers it comes with

3:25 AM

and DLSS/FSR2 are the only AA options as well

3:25 AM

so this isn't technically apples to apples

exio4

DLSS ray reconstruction offers better IQ than the denoisers it comes with

(w/ better performance)

3:26 AM

but that requires "upscaling"

3:26 AM

(cringe)

just do rr with dlaa

iirc dlrr isn't optimized yet for that

3:27 AM

but still, dlaa vs fsr2aa is uh

3:27 AM

image quality moment

rr makes the rt look amazing even at dlss quality anyway

3:30 AM

i just find it funny how amd keeps fucking up the pricing, but i guess at this level there's just not much they can lower it

3:30 AM

instead of making it an instant buy for people on the fence they made it compete in price with a4070

i had so much hopium for amd

3:30 AM

rdna3 burned me so hard

3:30 AM

nah this time it'll work

3:30 AM

me a year ago

at $450 it would be an actual recommendation

4060 Ti 16G at that price so yeah

3:32 AM

it'd make sense there

3:38 AM

also, @Egdarska i am doing a "new project" and it's funny

3:38 AM

i might need to reimplement LODs lol

3:39 AM

it's a web UI project, but the raw assets are stupidly high res, and there's some zooming / transitions needed

just Simplygon it

3:39 AM

oh

it can be non-web too

3:39 AM

but like

at what point is using vectors better than resizing images?

3:40 AM

bring back flash pages

it's worse because the assets are not something I really control

3:40 AM

i think the first demo assets they showed were like 20K pngs lol

lol, that would have crashed the browser not even that long ago

yeah im actually shocked those files just ran slow

can you do mipmapping on a regular page?

3:42 AM

or just make in webgl kek

i think there's the possibility of using custom desktop code

3:43 AM

so i'll just uh

3:43 AM

try that

i don't know how possible it is to have mipmaps in a browser tbh

you can always just DIY that bad boy

3:43 AM

I tried it before lol

how'd it go?

it was fine, the biggest issue is that nothing is really "made" for that

3:44 AM

there's libraries which do it for you, i have a lot of freedom on the software side rn

lol, speaking of software

3:47 AM

they tried to migrate the data from our current charting software to the new one, but the thing's database is such a nightmare they couldn't do it

great

we have to input the data for around 3,000 patients by hand

3:48 AM

2,700, something like that

3:48 AM

the people who know their shit have been warning the higher ups that we should have moved over years ago

3:49 AM

but people in executive positions are so smart, why would they ever listen to someone who actually does the work?

3:51 AM

i still have to train people on the new software btw, but i still haven't been given the full workflow

3:51 AM

so it's like idk figure it out

"wing it out whats the worst that can happen"

half the work is just teaching people how to navigate a modern program and a pc

3:53 AM

we have people too old to have used computers in daily life, and people too young to use computers as a main device

im too old to not think with computers

3:54 AM

but i used linux 15 years ago so

i did a survey, of the employees on the floor who are 18-22, only around 30% use a pc regularly, and of those almost half only use it for gaming

3:54 AM

so basically they boot their laptop, open steam, and play

3:55 AM

of the rest, almost 40% have a pc they own but don't really use, and over 30% don't have a pc at all

3:55 AM

they just have their phone, smart tv, and a tablet sometimes

i get annoyed when i have to explain UX things

3:56 AM

last time i had to explain that deleting something on the cloud folder would delete it off their phone too

if it's good UX you don't need to explain it :^)

3:57 AM

sometimes we have oopsies that aren't really people's fault tho

the cloud stuff is a bit less obvious

if deleting something sends it to the recycle bin, you'd expect that to happen every time, but by default the recycle bin isn't accessible on a network drive in windows

3:58 AM

we've had that happen a few times where people delete stuff from their personal drive and they want it back

3:58 AM

you can restore the drive backup, but that's not the same as just going in the recycle bin

F

i also really hate how pressing the X at the top can either close the program or minimize it

on macOS it always minimizes it

4:00 AM

meow

if i wanted the program to go away and keep running i'd press the button that means make it small and keep running

nah, on macOS "app running" is separated from "open windows"

4:01 AM

something on your dock might have no open windows, and still be running there

on windows too, but the X is supposed to close the program

not really

4:01 AM

on windows the taskbar is for windows

there's an exception for stuff that lives in the tray

not apps

exio4

not apps

there's no clear way to close apps on windows

4:02 AM

most of the time they just keep running

4:02 AM

that's like the first rule of good UX, you do what the user tells you to do

4:02 AM

if i click the button that historically means "close this" then you close it

exio4

on macOS it always minimizes it

On linux it depends, some applications will even take the kill signal from i3 and instead minimize lol, though I've found it useful for certain applications

yeah, I know, that is what I mean by macOS being more consistent in this regard, the red button is about closing the windows (it always does that), not closing the app (some "close themselves" - but they're generally the iOS-like apps which can just recover state gracefully)

Android is also similar, some apps will run in the background even if you close them on the app menu

yeah, but phones are understood to be different

4:03 AM

on a phone you want things to keep "running" unless you specifically go out of your way to kill it

why are they different tho

there isn't much difference now, but that's how it's been

Samueru

Android is also similar, some apps will run in the background even if you close them on the app menu

You have to do this on android to kill the app

the heck is that

It tells you the active background apps

4:06 AM

There stopping it will kill the app

no i mean where is that in the OS

You see the cog on the lower part of the screen?

4:08 AM

Next to the power icon

4:09 AM

Well it is right there, it says active apps when it is not selected

wack

4:10 AM

i never noticed it

4:10 AM

also, we're having a dengue epidemic

4:10 AM

exio4

i never noticed it

Let me guess IOS doesnt have it

exio4

also, we're having a dengue epidemic

i forgot you have backwards seasons

Samueru

Let me guess IOS doesnt have it

ios doesnt give you control like this yeah, it just forcefully throttles all background apps

4:12 AM

they can't even use the network beyond a few kilobytes / second lol

4:13 AM

heavy i/o throttling is also a thing

4:13 AM

(on macOS too, but in macOS it's more explicit, the app has to request it, on iOS - anything but the 'current apps' get shafted)

Android also gives the power to remove preinstalled apps, but it has to be thru adb shell, although this is going to be easier in the future due to regulations iirc

i personally use the preinstalled apps

4:14 AM

but i have seen a prompt to uninstall them

I just found out I have a V1 switch (this in not me trying to advertise to the discord) and I was wonder what was the best play to sell it as I dont really use it all that much and all I would do with it is rip TOTK to play on my steam deck

Zægreus

I just found out I have a V1 switch (this in not me trying to advertise to the discord) and I was wonder what was the best play to sell it as I dont really use it all that much and all I would do with it is rip TOTK to play on my steam deck

ebay ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Samueru

Android also gives the power to remove preinstalled apps, but it has to be thru adb shell, although this is going to be easier in the future due to regulations iirc

does android offer i/o throttling

4:19 AM

i dont remember

exio4

does android offer i/o throttling

No idea

Levlight

ebay ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

do you know how much it should go for

Zægreus

do you know how much it should go for

depends on your region just check what the prices of the other v1 switch offers are the simplest way would be to just do a auction (edited)

on macOS/iOS apple has the option to throttle disk I/O to funny levels for power consumption reasons,. and they leverage that for backups and shit

Levlight

depends on your region just check what the prices of the other v1 switch offers are the simplest way would be to just do a auction (edited)

I am in north america if that helps at all

exio4

yeah, I know, that is what I mean by macOS being more consistent in this regard, the red button is about closing the windows (it always does that), not closing the app (some "close themselves" - but they're generally the iOS-like apps which can just recover state gracefully)

Also I dont see the logic on this, the red button means stop to me lol

Samueru

Also I dont see the logic on this, the red button means stop to me lol

why close an app if you can suspend it?

4:26 AM

you can keep it in memory, compressed - and decompress it once in a while, and run it heavily throttled

exio4

you can keep it in memory, compressed - and decompress it once in a while, and run it heavily throttled

Oh I get that, just that the color doesn't make sense to me

wait i misread the thing you talked about

4:34 AM

nvm

Samueru

Also I dont see the logic on this, the red button means stop to me lol

it's a separation of application / window

4:34 AM

the red closes the windows, it stops that window

1

4:34 AM

not the app, an app can have 0-n windows

I don't know rick

exio4

the red closes the windows, it stops that window

bruh, seek help

4:34 AM

this is too much apple copium

what?

fr

idk the macos way makes sense

kek

like this is safari

4:37 AM

what's the minimum tabs you can open on safari

4:38 AM

conceptually

4:38 AM

0, of course

4:38 AM

you can have no open tabs/windows

4:38 AM

and it'd still be running, initialized™️

4:38 AM

and opening a new tab would be instant, because the app is right there

4:38 AM

running

yeah, i don't want that

4:38 AM

i want the close button to close it

In what sense are we stopping the window? from showing? minimize is for that.

you have that

Samueru

In what sense are we stopping the window? from showing? minimize is for that.

nio

4:39 AM

minimize is different

exio4

you have that

so what's the red button?

I know that very well, but I don't get your stopping logic

this is the discord window minized

4:39 AM

this isn't, because it is shown

why is there stuff in your recycle bin?

4:40 AM

trash can, whatever apple calls it

i only delete files if i feel the need to do it, and it'll autodelete older stuff if there's file pressure

Also why do you have a trascan icon on your bar? Can't that be a bookmark on your file explorer instead?

i just shift+del everything

no idea if it can be moved lol, i actually got used to it being there

but i still keep the recycle bin on the desktop out of habit

this is the desktop i've got rn, i dont see the Trash™️ icon anywhere, but it might be possible to enable it

4:42 AM

telegram (0 windows open, 1 window open)

exio4

this is the desktop i've got rn, i dont see the Trash™️ icon anywhere, but it might be possible to enable it

Reminds me of windows vista with that many widgets lol

the batteries one is kinda cringe cuz it doesnt account for the watch

Egdarska

i want the close button to close it

right click => Quit will do that

exio4

this is the desktop i've got rn, i dont see the Trash™️ icon anywhere, but it might be possible to enable it

fuck you.

LukeTheVideoGamer

fuck you.

what

exio4

right click => Quit will do that

also this isn't a good solution it's just a workaround

exio4

what

all of those fucking applications that don't need to be open what is wrong with you

LukeTheVideoGamer

fuck you.

So random lol

like i understand the messaging apps and MAYBE the web browser but come the fuck on you don't need SYSTEM SETTINGS open

it isn't a workaround, it's how you close an app (there's also the top bar...)

Or yknow, keyboard shortcuts

LukeTheVideoGamer

like i understand the messaging apps and MAYBE the web browser but come the fuck on you don't need SYSTEM SETTINGS open

bro i actually closed apps for the screenshot

The superior way to do anything tbh

cmd+q

1

4:45 AM

it closes apps, yeah, but the red button is for closing the window, not the app

which is stupid

that is what the Quit action is for

4:46 AM

no, it's just different

You're not gonna get any comprehension out of that one

you can be different and stupid at the same time

exio4

cmd+q

You are 50% of the way to use a window manager, that's the common keybind to close windows (win+q)

each way has its own quirks

win+x to minimize

like, im personally "used" to quitting apps instead of using the red button to close the window, which y'know, i'd be okay with. if the red button was consistent. It's not consistent.

the apple way makes the Application / Window split very clear, the windows way doesn't, depending on what I do I prefer one or the other

Sometimes clicking it will close the window but not the app, but other times it just closes the app???? and sometimes you just can't do diddly squat with it??????

which apps?

4:48 AM

the only apps i've noticed which "close" on the red thing are apps that are technically kinda-somewhat-always running (e.g. Weather app)

I've noted some like, oh I don't know SYSTEM SETTINGS, ive seen Discord do it sometimes weirdly enough but that's inconsistent in and of itself, I've seen third party web browsers do it, it's just weird

4:49 AM

i don't like how inconsistent it functions relative to the apps that i normally use, which makes me wish it either just closed the application, or it closed the window, without any variation

i've not noticed that tbh, but i also just cmd+q if i wanna quit the app

4:51 AM

pretty colors tho

like, if it's gonna give me two different ways to "close" something I'd rather it be consistent about it instead of just being weird and inconsistent, especially across third-party apps.

exio4

i've not noticed that tbh, but i also just cmd+q if i wanna quit the app

cope

third-party apps are out of apple's control

4:52 AM

they don't have the lock they do on iOS

4:52 AM

they have guidelines

4:52 AM

if apps don't follow it, then they don't follow it

Samueru

You are 50% of the way to use a window manager, that's the common keybind to close windows (win+q)

ctrl+q is quit in a lot of programs

i can live with "red button with the CLOSE symbol only closing the window, and the Quit button actually closing the app", but surely apple can enforce how those buttons work on macOS, like, in Xcode or whatever, right?

Levlight

cope

It does make sense to have a universal keybind to kill the application though

LukeTheVideoGamer

i can live with "red button with the CLOSE symbol only closing the window, and the Quit button actually closing the app", but surely apple can enforce how those buttons work on macOS, like, in Xcode or whatever, right?

no, they can't

Egdarska

ctrl+q is quit in a lot of programs

ctrl+w as well

cmd+w is for the current window/tab/etc

Samueru

It does make sense to have a universal keybind to kill the application though

no shit every OS has that even those which arnt real

it's the metaphorical equivalent of the red button

exio4

it's the metaphorical equivalent of the red button

if only we had a real red button

Levlight

no shit every OS has that even those which arnt real

Does windows actually have a keybind that will send a sigkill signal to the application though?

Samueru

Does windows actually have a keybind that will send a sigkill signal to the application though?

alt+F4?

nope

I think that's a sigterm

Samueru

Does windows actually have a keybind that will send a sigkill signal to the application though?

windows doesn't even have that in the task manager

there's some stuff that Apple has standarized

the "end task" is just asking the program "pretty please"

4:54 AM

it can say no fuck off

if the application hangs you wont be able to close it with alt+f4

4:55 AM

it is funny I pressed the actual f4 key when typing that lol

windows doesn't have a single way to actually ensure a misbehaving program is force closed

4:55 AM

all it has is "asking nicely"

for forcefully killing an app you need to do option+right click (Quit becomes Force Quit)

4:55 AM

on the dock

4:56 AM

cmd+q is the gracefull exit command

On linux I have a keybind (ctrl+alt+k) mapped to xkill, xkill will kill the window I select with the mouse

but if the app is hanging, which is the one reason you'd want to force kill it, windows can't do anything

4:56 AM

i expect exio to defend the input running at the same priority as normal programs in windows

macOS is full of "power user shit" behind key combos mixed with UI, but most of it is behind the option key lol

Egdarska

i expect exio to defend the input running at the same priority as normal programs in windows

what?

I expect exio to defend the magic mouse

magic trackpad*

exio4

what?

since you like defending shitty design choices

Samueru

On linux I have a keybind (ctrl+alt+k) mapped to xkill, xkill will kill the window I select with the mouse

Which I think this died with wayland as well lol

typical

exio4

for forcefully killing an app you need to do option+right click (Quit becomes Force Quit)

i just really really think it could be a little more intuitive on macOS than what it is currently. i certainly don't expect a novice computer user using a Mac for the first time to know that the RED button that they assume would be "close the application" doesn't actually quit the application, and that they'd need to go up to the Menu bar, click the name of the application, and then hit "Quit" to actually quit an application (and they absolutely won't use a key combo they barely know how to work a mouse sometimes i don't expect them to know Cmd+Q or what it does)

wayland more like nowayland

LukeTheVideoGamer

i just really really think it could be a little more intuitive on macOS than what it is currently. i certainly don't expect a novice computer user using a Mac for the first time to know that the RED button that they assume would be "close the application" doesn't actually quit the application, and that they'd need to go up to the Menu bar, click the name of the application, and then hit "Quit" to actually quit an application (and they absolutely won't use a key combo they barely know how to work a mouse sometimes i don't expect them to know Cmd+Q or what it does)

it's not that far off how phones work

hell, it's a little unintuitive if you're coming from Windows, or hell even some Linux desktops!

"if you're coming from Windows" is half-irrelevant

4:59 AM

macOS is a different OS, it did UI shit before Windows existed, and a lot of decisions were kept over the years; Windows is the one that was weird for a lot of the time lol

5:00 AM

and even if it wasn't this

5:00 AM

why is Windows the standard?

i don't count current macOS as analogous to the classic Mac OS that debuted in 1984. for all i care, they reset back to version one with OS X 10.0

like, what makes matching windows behavior "inherently better"?

exio4

like, what makes matching windows behavior "inherently better"?

market share

exio4

why is Windows the standard?

because it's literally the default on over 2 billion machines worldwide???

same reason the standard is still either maya or 3ds max even though both are hell to use

so, this isn't about objectively better / worse design choices, just what people are familiar with?

both

no, in this case the reasoning was windows

5:01 AM

coming from windows

no, my reasoning was logic

5:02 AM

big red x close program

that's just the logic you've got from the windows world, if you had used macOS it'd be small red x close window

the fact that windows got it mostly right is irrelevant

5:02 AM

i did use mac os before windows tho

5:03 AM

when it was macintosh

alright, so you just like it better

5:03 AM

that's fine too

5:03 AM

but like I said, they're just different approaches

5:03 AM

the idea that it is worse is just cringe, it's like linux users fighting for which DE does the most peepoo farts

mf gonna make a submarine out of cheap plastic and say it's a different approach

no, it's an app/window separation

5:04 AM

windows slowly took over mac's approach too

5:04 AM

run multiple windows and look at the windows app bar

5:04 AM

you'll see them grouped

5:04 AM

i wonder why

5:04 AM

it's still the old system at heart, with a coat of paint

5:05 AM

liberal destroyed

exio4

it's still the old system at heart, with a coat of paint

if it ain't broken, which trust me there's a lot of things broken in windows unrelated to this, then why fix it?

they can't change it or the windows bros would complain for 7 years and the window release would never get over 5% user installbase

even if windows switched to being a Unix-like overnight i doubt the inherently application-based windowing system would change, because it doesn't need to be.

until they revert it back in the next release

LukeTheVideoGamer

if it ain't broken, which trust me there's a lot of things broken in windows unrelated to this, then why fix it?

it isn't broken, it's just different, that's my point; both are - and depending on what you do, one or the other are nicer, i personally like cmd+tab being apps, and cmd+` being for windows

5:08 AM

it means i can have some app open 5 windows for some forsaken reason, and i don't need to suffer them (edited)

oh yeah, another pretty major gripe with macOS: why is there no NATIVE window snapping??? if i want to have a good workflow, i'd probably want the best window configuration i can, no? makes it a god damn pain to just use my system with everything just strewn about

yeah thats a fair one

5:11 AM

there are third-party apps, but the OS shouldn't be that barebones

hol up, it doesn't have any snapping?

nope!

bruh

Egdarska

hol up, it doesn't have any snapping?

not stock

Killing my bar with the power of linux just because lol

so no

Samueru

Killing my bar with the power of linux just because lol

btw is there anyway to exit xkill xD happens time to time for me that I hit it without needed it

I mention stock vs non-stock because I assume installing an app isn't a struggle for a power user, we all know how to install chrome don't we

5:12 AM

same deal

Levlight

btw is there anyway to exit xkill xD happens time to time for me that I hit it without needed it

right click instead of left haha

ah makes sence^^

exio4

I mention stock vs non-stock because I assume installing an app isn't a struggle for a power user, we all know how to install chrome don't we

that's not the point

I used to click on the empty desktop

5:13 AM

but that actually kills feh now

5:13 AM

which is the wallpaper setter lol

time to kill the kernal

what other basic feature is macos still missing?

Samueru

I used to click on the empty desktop

same I just killed kwin/taskbar/desktop all the time which auto restarts when it dies (edited)

lmao

we've been over app volume and window snapping

it's got a pretty weather app tho Jensenthumb

Egdarska

we've been over app volume and window snapping

app volume is an actual feature that is missing, and getting it back needs disabling security measures or something iirc, tho

5:15 AM

window snapping is... like saying Windows doesn't support games because Steam doesn't come preinstalled lol

5:15 AM

(xbox app is trash, don't @ me)

5:15 AM

i wonder if it unbroke itself since last time i tried gamepass

nope still broken

Is macos still lacking something like pavucontrol?

YES

holy shit

AND IM SO FUCKING ANGRY

I ran into that shit in the university in like 2015 lol

exio4

window snapping is... like saying Windows doesn't support games because Steam doesn't come preinstalled lol

games aren't a basic os feature

Egdarska

games aren't a basic os feature

what about media playback

5:16 AM

windows doesn't do h265 by default

5:16 AM

(or av1)

h265 is because of a US patent issue, no?

Egdarska

what other basic feature is macos still missing?

a right click

like, you can change which audio output is in system settings or system preferences depending on which macOS you're using, but you can't do audio piping or whatever, you can't do individual application-based volume management, it's just shit

exio4

windows doesn't do h265 by default

i never noticed, i'm assuming it installs as an update

notlaurence

h265 is because of a US patent issue, no?

apple does it tho, but it's irrelevant because it is a non-issue, i explicitly mention this because it's a typical "gotcha" that isn't but is used the same way back

Egdarska

i never noticed, i'm assuming it installs as an update

no, you needed to install it once and then it stays on your account

since i never installed the hvec codec but i still use h265

Egdarska

i never noticed, i'm assuming it installs as an update

no, it's a fucking app in the Microsoft Store

wut

no, it's not an app

5:18 AM

it's just a software toggle

5:18 AM

lol

5:18 AM

it's even more stupid

well, it's a ""software toggle"" but like come the fuck on it's in the app store, it's an app.

windows 10 once wanted me to pay 1 usd for a codec, I think it was h265 lol

there's non-app things in the app store

but that's the funny, it's fine, it's just one of the quirks of setting up an OS (if you need some of the features) I can make a worse point for spotlight

5:19 AM

macOS has spotlight and the closest alternative is Microsoft's PowerToys Run or whatever it is called

5:19 AM

which is still not even 2010 spotlight tier

5:19 AM

every OS has its own quirks

exio4

macOS has spotlight and the closest alternative is Microsoft's PowerToys Run or whatever it is called

Everything my beloved

i don't know what spotlight is

macOS' biggest feature L is the app-volume

regardless, Windows's HEVC/h265 support can be separate from an individual application's support for it, shit like VLC, MPV, and a lot of web browsers all can support H265 without needing that Windows thing, it just sucks for the three apps that do need that Windows thing

Egdarska

i don't know what spotlight is

system-wide search

I remembered macos is also lacking tiling windows with dragging to the sides, which even xfce has it

ah, i don't really need that so

‍♂️

Samueru

I remembered macos is also lacking tiling windows with dragging to the sides, which even xfce has it

that is what windows snapping is

Egdarska

ah, i don't really need that so

‍♂️

it isn't just search

exio4

that is what windows snapping is

It is a feature now on macos?

it isn't just search but come on, it's search.

5:20 AM

everyone uses it like a search bar for files and apps, it's search.

i use it as a calculator a lot

i just open things from the folder

5:21 AM

i have a calculator hotkey so

‍♂️

I just open the calculator with win+c lol

5:21 AM

yeah, spotlight is a single unified thing

Samueru

I just open the calculator with win+c lol

that's the spydroid now

Samueru

It is a feature now on macos?

no, but it's just a tiny app you can install and does it

third party, of course, because Apple would never.

there's a few you can pick from, as a linux user "you have to install an app" shouldn't deter you

5:22 AM

meow

i love windows' amazing 3d rendering capabilities

exio4

no, but it's just a tiny app you can install and does it

Does it also keep the windows tiled when you change the size of one?

it's not native but you just download a program and it does it (edited)

Samueru

Does it also keep the windows tiled when you change the size of one?

I think so, I don't use them (14" screen + default resolution means I only have 900p or so of usable screen space)

Samueru

Does it also keep the windows tiled when you change the size of one?

the tool i use whenever i use macOS uhh doesn't.

5:24 AM

you have to eyeball it which at that point what's the point aside from quick and easy snapping

Egdarska

i love windows' amazing 3d rendering capabilities

you can make a point for almost anything, the key is if the app can just do normal api stuff or if they need to do hacky shit

5:25 AM

like, NVIDIA's overlay isn't even technically part of the driver package, you need to install it

but it's their own program

the default driver windows comes only has the old control panel for now, but it's stupid to point this out because it's literally just double clicking an exe from nvidia

a more apt comparison would be if you needed some third party program to have those features

like rivatuner?

which feature does rivatuner offer over the nvidia program? it's only the extended overlay

LukeTheVideoGamer

the tool i use whenever i use macOS uhh doesn't.

This is what I'm asking just in case

which isn't even a rivatuner thing, it needs hwinfo64 or something similar

Egdarska

which feature does rivatuner offer over the nvidia program? it's only the extended overlay

isn't overclocking not a thing on the nvidia control panel?

5:27 AM

iirc gfe has some but its limited too

depends on your card

i know, it's overclocking

5:27 AM

but like

5:28 AM

Windows needs PowerToys which are semi-third-party (Microsoft branding, open-source project by the community)

5:28 AM

Samueru

This is what I'm asking just in case

i3 which is meant to be used with the keyboard even lets you do the dynamic tling with the mouse

most of the powertoy shit is just extra, extending beyond the basic capabilities

Samueru

This is what I'm asking just in case

i can't see it because my phone hates your screen recordings but im pretty sure i know what you mean, and the tool i used, i think it was called Rectangle, it doesn't do that.

you don't need powertoys for window tiling for example, just if you want customizable FancyZones

LukeTheVideoGamer

i can't see it because my phone hates your screen recordings but im pretty sure i know what you mean, and the tool i used, i think it was called Rectangle, it doesn't do that.

like

Egdarska

most of the powertoy shit is just extra, extending beyond the basic capabilities

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/powertoys/text-extractor you need one for OCR

PowerToys Text Extractor utility for Windows

Text Extractor is a convenient way to copy text from anywhere on your screen.

LukeTheVideoGamer

i can't see it because my phone hates your screen recordings but im pretty sure i know what you mean, and the tool i used, i think it was called Rectangle, it doesn't do that.

Oh damn

LukeTheVideoGamer

like

That's weird

5:30 AM

And the vid is a regular mp4, not even mkv

I can literally just pause a video, or take a picture - and macOS will OCR the image blobShrug

5:30 AM

i would just say that's an extra for macos

it isn't an extra, it's core functionality lol

window tiling has been in linux for what, 12 years?

no, 30 years or so

5:31 AM

i'd say

i meant the dragging and snapping

exio4

it isn't an extra, it's core functionality lol

who the fuck uses OCR on such a regular basis that they NEED it built into their image preview utility

old keyboard snapping is older yeah

oh wait

5:31 AM

i know who

5:31 AM

you, for some reason.

LukeTheVideoGamer

who the fuck uses OCR on such a regular basis that they NEED it built into their image preview utility

it's pretty neat

5:31 AM

just not a basic feature at this point

it's neat, but i don't need it

cool

you don't need window snapping either, the window management technically is basic enough that it does something

5:32 AM

irrelevant, it's still an useful feature

lots of people don't need per program volume either, but i can't do without it

per app volume is the real kicker there

5:32 AM

it's core OS functionality that the OS doesn't support that needs hacks

windows 7 btw

it's a nice to have, not a necessity, i agree! i just don't understand it specifically for built-in OCR

or was it vista? i remember the longhorn preview had something like the volume mixer

vista iirc

5:33 AM

windows snapping can be added with an app, the same way OCR can be added on windows

5:33 AM

therefore, bringing it up as a "big deal breaker" is stupid

LukeTheVideoGamer

like

https://streamable.com/gx4plf

not a deal breaker, just saying it's basic functionality that should be in an os that requires a $1,500+ device to use

anybody that has ever considered Linux a real OS can shut up rn btw the OS literally does jack shit for you without a fuckton of manual tuning, double clicking an installer is less effort

deal breakers will vary by person

Egdarska

not a deal breaker, just saying it's basic functionality that should be in an os that requires a $1,500+ device to use

mac minis cost $499

5:34 AM

new

5:34 AM

lol

Samueru

https://streamable.com/gx4plf

exio4

mac minis cost $499

come on now

ah well

LukeTheVideoGamer

Click to see attachment 🖼️

kek

that's like saying you can get a pc for cheap, dell has netbooks for $250

mac mini is actually good tho

5:35 AM

have you used them lol

Samueru

https://streamable.com/gx4plf

okay finally got to watch it, and yeah Rectangle don't got that.

crazy

uhhh

5:36 AM

what

exio4

have you used them lol

no, are they upgradable?

exio4

mac mini is actually good tho

oh i LOVE Mac minis, they're like the only sensibly priced apple products, i just wish they still didn't start with just 8GB of RAM and 256GB of Storage, but it's more understandable at $599 standard pricing ($499 education pricing)

because the $500 model has 256GB of storage

5:37 AM

inb4 dongles

Egdarska

no, are they upgradable?

they're not, but they start at that price, and are vastly more capable than the dell netbooks for that price

Egdarska

inb4 dongles

i mean the Mini does have two USB3 10Gbps Type A ports

LukeTheVideoGamer

i mean the Mini does have two USB3 10Gbps Type A ports

for now

exio4

they're not, but they start at that price, and are vastly more capable than the dell netbooks for that price

wouldn't you be comparing it to a mini pc of that price?

LukeTheVideoGamer

i mean the Mini does have two USB3 10Gbps Type A ports

USB3?

yeah USB3

5:38 AM

im not calling it USB 3.2 Gen 2

Egdarska

wouldn't you be comparing it to a mini pc of that price?

the mac mini at launch had much better single core performance, and nT wasn't that far off

5:38 AM

i think the latest price cuts have gotten them even tho

LukeTheVideoGamer

i mean the Mini does have two USB3 10Gbps Type A ports

you could mention the usb-c usb4 ports

but can it run crysis

they're better

Egdarska

but can it run crysis

yes actually

cyberpunk is gonna be a struggle tho

exio4

you could mention the usb-c usb4 ports

they specifically mentioned "don't mention dongles", so i brought up the ports that you don't need dongles for, the two USB-A ports

actually, how does re8 run on the mini?

it should run better than on the ipads

5:39 AM

so look at the ipad m1 performance, and add 20%+

5:40 AM

minimum

Egdarska

actually, how does re8 run on the mini?

well enough, ~30-45fps with default settings (so.. low-ish)

i wanna play re8 again

sorry for mentioning this but (edited)

it's not gaming PC levels of performance but for a tiny power-sipping desktop it's pretty acceptable

the mac mini can use a fuckton of power, like 40W

rip

so it performs petty well

almost as much as my gpu idle

pretty*

>"a fuckton of power" >40W

for apple silicon standards it is a lot

5:41 AM

specially M1/M2

if 40W is a fuck ton, that's definitely saying something about the silicon quality itself

yeah, being efficient is their main thing

also, Apple has their alright tier office suite

5:42 AM

For Free™️ with the OS

literally the only reason to get one

man if a Mac Mini with decent fucking configurations were cheap i'd easily get one

5:43 AM

there's some value to that, a friend's dad buys macs and uses exclusively their apps because they just come with the OS and are high quality, run offline, etc

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

That thumbnail hurts my eyes lol

real men use libre office smh

Egdarska

real men use libre office smh

facts

obviously I'd still keep a Windows PC (or alternatively a Linux one) around for workloads i can't do on a Mac, like actually gaming with more than like 5 games, but other than that, gimme a Mac Mini (preferably with M2 Pro because damn boi), a decent 4K display (i am not touching the 5K displays out there with a 30 foot pole until they come down to SENSIBLE prices), and im set

Egdarska

real men use libre office smh

real men write their office docs in vim

guy writing latex in the corner:

Samueru

real men write their office docs in vim

thank god you can install vim on macOS, im pretty sure it got ported via Homebrew (brew.sh check it out some time)

i write my own office suites in cobol like a good boomer

LukeTheVideoGamer

thank god you can install vim on macOS, im pretty sure it got ported via Homebrew (brew.sh check it out some time)

I don't actually use vim btw, despite the fact that you might get the idea that I do due to that I use i3 and vimium

i mean, i used freeform as a wannabe adobe xd a few days back

I'm also not a programmer lol

unironically sick app

i just use notepad++

‍♂️

notepad++ is cool as shit why is it only on fucking Windows

Samueru

I'm also not a programmer lol

just the side effects of being a linux user kek

notepad++ is more of a textedit thing

5:47 AM

Apple's notepad

exio4

notepad++ is more of a textedit thing

yeah, if Textedit was actually good :)

I use vs code tho

exio4

I use vs code tho

electron bloat

5:47 AM

(but nah, valid)

LukeTheVideoGamer

yeah, if Textedit was actually good :)

bro are u for real

exio4

I use vs code tho

macos shill using vs code

LukeTheVideoGamer

electron bloat

meant to reply to this

are you ok bro?

Samueru

are you ok bro?

copilot too good to pass on it

@exio4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuwAfxTTk1g

hell no

For The Greater Good Of God - Neco Arc (AI Cover)

5:48 AM

this is what machine learning was made for

exio4

meant to reply to this

one message down would've prevented this message btw

Egdarska

@exio4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuwAfxTTk1g

that's surprisingly good

kinda mad that it's a cover of a cover

5:51 AM

neco arc doing bruce dickinson's screams would have been better

freeform is alright to put together shitty mocks because i have no way to visualize things in my head

just use blender bro

it has basic alignment functionality

Egdarska

just use blender bro

blender isn't preinstalled = doesn't count

right it's stupid

i use blender even for pamphlets because i can't draw

now y'all are getting it

blender isn't a basic feature mf

that's the joke

5:53 AM

meow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_saqLyXogkQ

just josh xd

Neco Arc - Dragostea Din Tei / Numa Numa [ AI Cover ]

5:54 AM

my recommendations are like 70% this now

based

Copilot As an AI language model, I don’t hold opinions or biases

5:58 AM

windows copilot is so bad

5:59 AM

ngl

5:59 AM

github copilot is the best use for llms i have found yet and its still not Great™️

5:59 AM

just fine

it's more hand-holdy and safe than the average pokemon game

which is pretty good, better than what we had before (nothing)

exio4

github copilot is the best use for llms i have found yet and its still not Great™️

Can you ask it to convert my i3config to a hyprland config lol?

Cooking a preserved critter from the Paleozoic era found in a bog is quite an intriguing challenge! While I don’t have a specific recipe for Paleozoic creatures, let’s explore some fascinating aspects of fossilization and preservation

6:01 AM

Remember, this playful recipe is purely imaginative. In reality, we leave Paleozoic critters undisturbed for scientific study and admiration.

6:01 AM

wack, i'm really hungry

Samueru

Can you ask it to convert my i3config to a hyprland config lol?

you can do that, but ideally it works best as an autocomplete, write the i3 config then do /* hyprland config version */ starts of it

6:04 AM

and it completes, but it has to be on the training data

6:04 AM

otherwise, you should feed it the documentation

exio4

you can do that, but ideally it works best as an autocomplete, write the i3 config then do /* hyprland config version */ starts of it

https://pastebin.com/Dz4bhdvj I don't have the copilot thing, I just wanna see how good it is with that

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #...

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

6:06 AM

The bing ai just lies very badly lol

Samueru

https://pastebin.com/Dz4bhdvj I don't have the copilot thing, I just wanna see how good it is with that

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

That's my i3 window manager configuration and translating all of that to work with hyprland would be too much for me

6:13 AM

kek didn't do shit

kek

6:14 AM

yeah, it kinda just gaslights you and hopes you just leave

Samueru

https://pastebin.com/Dz4bhdvj I don't have the copilot thing, I just wanna see how good it is with that

did u try giving it documentation

6:15 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU2Pbm9wtnw

Mrs Nightmare Lyra

MASHUP - Beat It, Trooper! [Iron Maiden vs. Michael Jackson]

exio4

did u try giving it documentation

Should I just give it the link to it or tell it to look it up?

6:15 AM

inb4 the documentation is a discord link (edited)

6:16 AM

JUst gave it the link to the hyprland wiki

6:17 AM

lmao the same thing

Samueru

JUst gave it the link to the hyprland wiki

no, copy paste the whole documentation as prompt

6:22 AM

ideally markdown

exio4

no, copy paste the whole documentation as prompt

I would have to pay for that, there's a limit on how much text I can put lol

yea now you get why llms are shit

6:23 AM

just compress the text and use the dictionary as prompt

6:24 AM

downloading codellama-13B-instruct at Q6_k

6:24 AM

rn

6:25 AM

send me the file with the prompt, be it: all relevant documentation for both formats input format english text describing what to do

6:25 AM

i dont have access to gpt4

6:26 AM

using spotlight to check how long this app without a remainder will take to download the file

6:26 AM

meow

exio4

send me the file with the prompt, be it: all relevant documentation for both formats input format english text describing what to do

The file is this pastebin link: https://pastebin.com/Dz4bhdvj Prompt: Convert/translate this i3 window manager configuration to work with the hyprland window manager. Hyprland documentation: https://wiki.hyprland.org/

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #...

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

exio4

using spotlight to check how long this app without a remainder will take to download the file

i just use my head

Egdarska

i just use my head

bro has a computer on his pocket and doesn't use it

6:27 AM

smh

Samueru

The file is this pastebin link: https://pastebin.com/Dz4bhdvj Prompt: Convert/translate this i3 window manager configuration to work with the hyprland window manager. Hyprland documentation: https://wiki.hyprland.org/

alright

also, >comma

im argentine

discustang

u truly are american

wut

6:28 AM

mexico uses periods too

does mexico use 110v?

it's just erupeans and european wannabes that use the comma

6:29 AM

and india, but they're special

want to know if mexicans are also america's bitch in that regard

6:29 AM

smh

exio4

yea now you get why llms are shit

Brave also has a mixtral AI that was able to convert the non posix compliant shell script that bing told me to use bash for, but this one is even more limited, I get like 3 tries per day lol

Samueru

Brave also has a mixtral AI that was able to convert the non posix compliant shell script that bing told me to use bash for, but this one is even more limited, I get like 3 tries per day lol

mixtral is good but their context size is only 32k

it's 127V

Egdarska

it's 127V

typical

Egdarska

it's 127V

Indeed

Samueru

Brave also has a mixtral AI that was able to convert the non posix compliant shell script that bing told me to use bash for, but this one is even more limited, I get like 3 tries per day lol

do you have the hyprland documentation in uh

6:30 AM

abriged format

6:30 AM

just a single markdown

6:30 AM

codellama has a 100k context, i dont think i can run it tho

but yeah, mexico got its electric grid thanks to uh, some guy who really liked americans and their technology

6:30 AM

he advanced the country a lot

6:30 AM

might have been a bit of a dictator

6:30 AM

cool dude tho

usual one tbh

If you wonder why 127V, it is because the 3 phase voltage of 127 is 220V. In the USA they instead use 120/208V, the 208V can be a problem for imported appliances that need 220V, which is more common in latin america.

caused a war, good times

i didnt know anybody but the americans used 110v until i talked with a friend from venezuela years back

exio4

do you have the hyprland documentation in uh

unfortunately I don't

i thought it was just like metric

6:31 AM

americans = weird world = normal

6:31 AM

but apparently americans got to spread their voltage before it was contained

exio4

americans = weird world = normal

sounds like someone hasn't tried fried ice cream

exio4

i didnt know anybody but the americans used 110v until i talked with a friend from venezuela years back

It is only the countries that had heavy american influence during the 1940s that are 120V

6:32 AM

Phillipines was also 120V but they moved to 220V

6:32 AM

they still use the same plugs though

Samueru

It is only the countries that had heavy american influence during the 1940s that are 120V

uh

6:32 AM

argentina:

there's whole states in mexico where older people can convert imperial in their heads because of the railways

Brazil has both voltages

because it was all imperial because america

then colombia and venezuela are 120V

i mean mexico is basically an american colony

6:33 AM

venezuela was too until like 25 years ago

6:33 AM

lol

6:33 AM

wait, a bit further back

6:34 AM

nvm, 25 is pretty on point

exio4

venezuela was too until like 25 years ago

We still have the influence

6:34 AM

We now use the usd as currency

probably not by choice

^

6:35 AM

now its just because chavez fucked up and maduro is milei tier in delusions

ain't no country doing well ever said "we should just change to dollars for fun"

Egdarska

ain't no country doing well ever said "we should just change to dollars for fun"

We officially haven't yet

6:35 AM

but that's just the reality

so like mexican border cities lol

milei wants to do it here but like

6:36 AM

our currency is a mess but it still does everything currencies do

6:36 AM

i dont get it

stores don't want the funny monopoly money, they want the green bills

Egdarska

stores don't want the funny monopoly money, they want the green bills

This pretty much, also even the politicians keep their money outside in usd lol

our bills are kinda cool tho

6:37 AM

except for that kunt in the 20

6:37 AM

the new ones have animals

Egdarska

the new ones have animals

We also sort of did that to some bills

hmmm

6:37 AM

apparently there was a shortage of 50 peso bills because people just kept them

6:38 AM

because of the axolotl

lol

6:38 AM

i keep a bill of the cute animals too

didn't even see the axototl until you said it lol

our pesos are worthless so losing 1000 pesos is like

6:38 AM

$1

6:38 AM

literally

6:38 AM

funny animal on bill tho

germany moment

6:38 AM

just uh

6:39 AM

don't keep going

too late bro

rip

we just had milei go to the trump convention

Egdarska

germany moment

We normally just remove zeros from the current

to talk about the evils of socialism

We have done it 3 times already since 2008

we haven't removed 0s since the 90s

first it was 3 zeros out

6:39 AM

then 5 zeros out

Samueru

We have done it 3 times already since 2008

mexico did that too in the 80s

and now 6 zeros out

or early 90s i forget, i think 1991

argentina did it inthe 70s, 80s, 80s, 90s

kek

i'm not even kidding lmao

So a bolivar from 2008 is worth like 0.000000000000009 usd today lol

exio4

we just had milei go to the trump convention

6:42 AM

seen today in san diego lol

Samueru

So a bolivar from 2008 is worth like 0.000000000000009 usd today lol

I counted the zeros btw

he ain't doing good now btw

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

i have seen signs like these but with just MILEI on them

6:42 AM

its deranged

Samueru

I counted the zeros btw

i remember that

our currency was struggling but did mostly fine until 2015

doesn't zimbabwe still hold the world recor tho?

when the center-right guy fucked up

6:44 AM

the idea seemed sane, let's vibe it out and the economy will grow

Egdarska

doesn't zimbabwe still hold the world recor tho?

The hold the record for the highest number bill

6:44 AM

We would hold it if we didn't remove the zeros

but then he loved debt too much and our debt went to like 300% of our gdp

6:44 AM

do not trust the right wing with the credit card

exio4

but then he loved debt too much and our debt went to like 300% of our gdp

those are rookie numbers

6:45 AM

aight, re8 finished downloading

6:45 AM

i miss having decent internet

Egdarska

those are rookie numbers

this is foreign debt, we can't just print our way out of it like americans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

List of countries by external debt

This is a list of countries by external debt: it is the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in internationally accepted currencies, goods or services, where the public debt is the money or credit owed by any level of government, from central to local, and the private debt the money or credit owed by private households or...

bruh github still requires an account to download artifacts

6:47 AM

fucking why

Samueru

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Argentina's numbers are fudged

Argentinas foreing debt is about 6000 usd per capita

6:48 AM

Spain is 34000 kek

it's so fucking stupid because it's just the download, you can use https://nightly.link/ to download

6:48 AM

it's just a pointless limitation

exio4

Argentina's numbers are fudged

Nah, argentina's got potential

Samueru

Argentinas foreing debt is about 6000 usd per capita

our GDP in nominal terms is very fake, because it is mostly internal market related - dollars are VERY scarce

6:49 AM

it's very high in purchasing power because the ~peronists~ kept the local industry growing at the expense of competitiveness, so jobs were OK, etc etc - but USDs were basically being forced out of anything that generated them to keep select industry running & pay debt

Ours is 3500 usd per capita we already dollarized kek, though that data is from 2019

exio4

it's very high in purchasing power because the ~peronists~ kept the local industry growing at the expense of competitiveness, so jobs were OK, etc etc - but USDs were basically being forced out of anything that generated them to keep select industry running & pay debt

this is the biggest reason you can't just open the economy, almost all of the growth of the last 20 years was domestic

6:50 AM

you're basically resetting the economy back 20 years, which is after the 90s recession

6:50 AM

so

exio4

this is the biggest reason you can't just open the economy, almost all of the growth of the last 20 years was domestic

Just open it what's the worse that could happen anyway

back to the 70s or so would be more correct

Samueru

Just open it what's the worse that could happen anyway

https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded

Argentina's poverty levels hit 57% of population, a 20-year high in...

A study has found more than 57% of Argentina's people are considered poor, the worst poverty level in 20 years.

6:51 AM

6:52 AM

poverty levels were high before but a lot of welfare was in place to keep the basics going (healthcare was heavily subsidized, so even if not free, you got treatment/medication; seniors specially, etc)

6:52 AM

so you'd be poor, but you'd "make basic ends meet, paycheck to paycheck"

6:52 AM

now that's gone lol

6:53 AM

funny

BUT IT'S NOT REALLY FREE REEEE

yeah bro the insurance companies really needed higher profits bro

fr

the first thing that happened as soon as the price controls on insurance were lifted was a 100% increase minimum

wanna hear something funny?

iirc some plans went up by 150-250%

6:53 AM

the "better" ones

Egdarska

wanna hear something funny?

please tell me something funny so i forget im living in a wannabe cyberpunk dystopia

accepting every claim to the state, even the expensive ones like hearing aids, is cheaper than trying to assess what's really "needed"

6:54 AM

sorry bro, it makes it worse

"expensive ones like hearing aids"

6:54 AM

uhh, aren't hearing aids like.. not that expensive? in the grand scheme of things

we just accept every claim our patients make and the state can technically deny them but they never do

you get one of them and they basically vibe for a while, unlike shit like cancer treatments which is very high recurring costs

depends, $4,000 for a device in one go is pretty expensive, because it's not like a surgery where the state only pays what it really costs

6:55 AM

that's just what the device costs the state too

fair, over here the state still negotiates prices for that afaik?

you do get reduced rates for buying in "bulk"

6:56 AM

but the most expensive devices are like $12,000 a pair

yea the government gives you less "choice" of what hearing implants to buy

6:57 AM

but it's a "win-win", corporations get near-guaranteed profits, and people pay less

yeah, you can't get the "nice" ones, but the ones we get are still around $4000-5000

6:57 AM

also with shit like grab bars and installing ramps in their homes

6:58 AM

it's cheaper to just send someone to assess the house and install them than try to have the state argue why they're not needed

healthcare is also not something that should be seen as "cost effective" anyway

not to mention they're gonna prevent future injuries which will be more expensive

that's already a broken way to see it (edited)

bruh, we're dealing with americans

6:59 AM

you have to put it in terms they can wrap their head around

i mean it does make sense, how do we improve healthcare for the most people with a limited budget, that's the cost effective part

6:59 AM

not "is the old man in his 60s really in need of a machine to measure his blood sugar? we should make sure bro"

the part i find funny is that "wasting money" is usually cheaper than the alternative

yea i mean, healthcare is also funny on younger people

7:01 AM

because just treating random shit when you're 20, 30, 40, hell even 50 is just muuch cheaper than dealing with the aftermath when you're in your 60s, 70s, etc

yeah

7:02 AM

we have a lot of people who got through their whole life never seeing a doctor and they think healthcare is not needed

7:02 AM

but then it all hits at once

7:02 AM

i abuse the shit out of my health insurance now ngl

like my dad has a medication that he takes since his early 40s that is for improving calcium reception in his bones or something, it's literally a few bucks a month tops to produce because it's "a solved problem now", the people doing that from their early 30s when they notice their back hurts and get a checkup every 5 years kind of deal will actually be much better overall as they get older, need fewer surgeries, work more (capitalism go brr)

7:03 AM

etc

Egdarska

i abuse the shit out of my health insurance now ngl

>abuse

exio4

like my dad has a medication that he takes since his early 40s that is for improving calcium reception in his bones or something, it's literally a few bucks a month tops to produce because it's "a solved problem now", the people doing that from their early 30s when they notice their back hurts and get a checkup every 5 years kind of deal will actually be much better overall as they get older, need fewer surgeries, work more (capitalism go brr)

What med is that btw?

you know what i mean

Samueru

What med is that btw?

can't remember, it's one of the like 7 pills he has to vibe with everyday

i just pay the $5 to see my doctor if i notice something funny and i'm not feeling lazy

Isn't that just vitamin d lol?

no

no, there's people who physically can't retain calcium

i wish i remember which chemical it was, i dont remember cuz i only read it once like 2 years ago when we were adding together how many chemicals we were all taking cuz it was like damn modern medicine is wild we basically are chemically enhanced superhumans fr

I actually googled it for a while and couldn't find anything kek

7:08 AM

it is the usual that for hypokalemia you need to increase the calcium intake, vitamin d, etc

i think its calcium, might be something else, i just remember he had to get some tests and his bones were too weak for what they should be at his age

7:08 AM

yeah hes on a diet too

7:08 AM

but that's also because blood pressure is a thing lol

Yeah just in case double check everything, because hyperkalemia is a much worse thing btw.

nah, he gets checks up regularly

7:11 AM

i don't remember the specifics, it's not my body

Also in latin america there's a tendency of medicines that are no longer on sell in the USA or Europe

7:12 AM

LIke there's an antiacid that's banned in the usa due to its potential of cancer that's still sold here

which one?

Raditanida iirc

7:13 AM

Or something like it

7:13 AM

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranitidina

Ranitidina

La ranitidina (INN) es un antagonista H2, uno de los receptores de la histamina, que inhibe la producción de ácido gástrico (ácido estomacal), comúnmente era usado en el tratamiento de la úlcera péptica (PUD) y en el reflujo gastroesofágico (ERGE). Habitualmente se comercializaba con varios nombres, como la marca registrada Zantac, de Boehringe...

>In September 2019, the probable carcinogen N-nitrosodimethylamine (NDMA) was discovered in ranitidine products from a number of manufacturers, resulting in recalls.[14][15][16][17] In April 2020, ranitidine was withdrawn from the United States market and suspended in the European Union and Australia due to these concerns.[18][19][20][11][21][22]

7:13 AM

https://www.argentina.gob.ar/noticias/suspension-preventiva-y-retiro-del-mercado-de-todos-los-medicamentos-que-contengan

Suspensión preventiva y retiro del mercado de todos los medicamento...

Aplica a las especialidades que la contengan como monodroga o en asociación con otros ingredientes farmaceúticos.

7:13 AM

december 2020

7:14 AM

we took longer i guess

Oh Argentina removed it

7:14 AM

WE HAVENT HERE

you are in venezuela

7:14 AM

lol

7:14 AM

argentina is usually normal in this regard

7:14 AM

we're usually a bit slower, but by like, a year tops

7:14 AM

this might change with the new government tho

7:14 AM

"free market" and all that

Do they still sell daflon in there?

it seems to be sold, what is it?

7:16 AM

but i've never seen it

For "varices"

7:16 AM

no idea the name in english

7:16 AM

varicole veins iirc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daflon >Daflon is not an FDA-approved medication, and therefore it cannot be advertised for treatment of diseases in the United States. Daflon is under preliminary research for its potential use in treating vein diseases,[5] or hemorrhoids.[6] It is sold as a drug in France,[7][8] Spain,[9] Malaysia[10][11] and Belgium.

Daflon

Daflon is an oral micronized purified phlebotonic flavonoid fraction containing 90% diosmin and 10% hesperidin. It is manufactured by Laboratoires Servier and often used to treat or manage disorders of the blood vessels. Flavonoids are a type of phytochemical that have been associated with various effects on human health and are a component of m...

7:17 AM

lol

same

Samueru

no idea the name in english

meant to reply to

7:17 AM

varices, or varicose veins

i assume if something is found they'll ban it like they ban random chemicals every once due to risk in a while

7:18 AM

governments dont usually ban shit as much as some people like to think

exio4

governments dont usually ban shit as much as some people like to think

We didn't remove leaded gasoline until like 2006

it's usually "there's a risk!" alarms sounds

That's why I USE LINUX

the US is the opposite

It affected me

this causes cancer! ok, please use less of it

Samueru

We didn't remove leaded gasoline until like 2006

argentina was late too

here's the maximum allowed per dose

we had neoliberalism so uh

7:19 AM

free markets or something

oh you went over? here's a fine that is less than 0.1% of your monthly profit

7:19 AM

don't do it again

based

7:20 AM

how do u say banned in spanish wtf

Egdarska

this causes cancer! ok, please use less of it

Nah this is a bit true, too much toasted bread can be carcinogenic for example, dependes on the dose for everything

exio4

how do u say banned in spanish wtf

baneado

prohibido, i asked google lol

baneado lol

7:21 AM

people use that word anyway it's fine

I'm not kidding when I say baneado

7:21 AM

people also say kickeado

it just reminds me too much of tuneado and makes me laugh

>En 1991 la Agencia de Protección Ambiental (EPA), de los Estados Unidos, estableció que en niños los niveles mayores a diez microgramos de plomo por decilitro de sangre son peligrosos. Como medida de prevención primaria se prohibió el uso de este metal en diversos productos. En Argentina se eliminó de las naftas en 1996, y de las pinturas, en 2004.

7:21 AM

wait, '96? impressive

i fucking hate this nvidia scam fr

the leaded paint is why im a dumbass btw

exio4

>En 1991 la Agencia de Protección Ambiental (EPA), de los Estados Unidos, estableció que en niños los niveles mayores a diez microgramos de plomo por decilitro de sangre son peligrosos. Como medida de prevención primaria se prohibió el uso de este metal en diversos productos. En Argentina se eliminó de las naftas en 1996, y de las pinturas, en 2004.

Yeah can't explain why exio is a mac shill

7:22 AM

oh nvm the paint lol

kek

the mac shill is an overrcorrection from my linux era

exio4

the mac shill is an overrcorrection from my linux era

coping mechanism

bro tasted foss and went full corpo

i was using open-source only setups with fully self-compiled gentoo

7:23 AM

never again

Egdarska

bro tasted foss and went full corpo

real

Like those people that want anti gay laws and then turned out to be gay lol

that's more denial tho

everybody should be bisexual

7:23 AM

so i get to sleep with more people

exio4

i was using open-source only setups with fully self-compiled gentoo

were you even able to compile the kernel in the atom laptop lol?

Samueru

were you even able to compile the kernel in the atom laptop lol?

bro, i compiled Qt, KDE and Firefox.

7:24 AM

regularly.

On that shit?!

yes

7:25 AM

Poor thing

7:25 AM

That's gotta be a type of abuse

the CPU ran at 100% for whole months

7:25 AM

i am not kidding btw

Nah the paint really got you good btw

exio4

so i get to sleep with more people

no, if everyone's bisexual my chances go down to the negatives

Egdarska

no, if everyone's bisexual my chances go down to the negatives

hol up lemme see if i can find one of the first sculpts i made

Samueru

Nah the paint really got you good btw

the laptop was actually pretty usable

7:27 AM

it booted in <20 seconds from power on to desktop

What compile flags did you use? (this might trigger a ptsd episode sorry)

it depends, for big stuff I just used -O2, but for small apps I benchmarked whatever I could throw at them

7:28 AM

was -Osize even a thing back then?

Not even -O3?!

exio4

was -Osize even a thing back then?

I think you mean -Ofast

Samueru

Not even -O3?!

What kind of gentoo user is that?!?!

-Ofast was a thing, but Os I can't remember if it was later

7:29 AM

I did use -march=native etc tho

True gentoo user then

7:30 AM

-funroll-all-loops?

no, unrolling is worse for memory usage & caches too

exio4

no, unrolling is worse for memory usage & caches too

Oh look at that lol

7:30 AM

You didn't get to play with random segfaults lol

7:31 AM

That's why Exio doesn't user gentoo anymore, he knows his stuff

7:31 AM

i made this when i was learning blender on the old shitbox

7:32 AM

the one with nvidia integrated graphics and amd athlon ii whatever

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I thought that was a response to what I said about exio lol

would you believe it was hell?

7:32 AM

that thing took like 40 minutes to render lol

Egdarska

that thing took like 40 minutes to render lol

rookie numbers

i bet if i had the file it would be done in seconds

Samueru

That's why Exio doesn't user gentoo anymore, he knows his stuff

i learned about cpu architecture this way

exio4

i learned about cpu architecture this way

Do you know about transparent hugepages?

7:34 AM

That's something that benefits intel more than amd iirc

nope

kek

i assume thats 64 bit stuff

7:35 AM

intel atom was 32 bit and in otdee

7:35 AM

order

7:35 AM

i also undervolted it

7:35 AM

i was clinically insane

there's stuff here i forgot about

7:35 AM

exio4

i was clinically insane

undervolting makes sense though

7:36 AM

specially if you will toast the thing for months lol

i did it for efficiency

of course

yea

exio4

i did it for efficiency

truer words have never been said before

i'm gonna enable turbo just for that

it never clicked to you that downloading the already compiled kernel would be more efficient kek?

Samueru

it never clicked to you that downloading the already compiled kernel would be more efficient kek?

no, because i needed a memory efficient kernel, i only had 1GB and 75-100 MB were reserved for the boot process

7:41 AM

i had the basic services on the initramfs

Is it actually true that you save memory that way? Last time I checked you saved something like 20 mb iirc

for faster boot

7:41 AM

the laptop has 1gb total

Samueru

Is it actually true that you save memory that way? Last time I checked you saved something like 20 mb iirc

And this is today, I imagine before it would be less

exio4

for faster boot

I imagine you had the dash shell

it wasn’t big but i literally compiled shit on the initramfs with a custom libc, can’t remember much rm

7:43 AM

rn

7:43 AM

to save memory

7:43 AM

i was chasing 2% gains

Debian switched to dash when they still used a lot of shell scripts for the init, it actually sped up the boot times

7:43 AM

today with systemd I don't think it makes a difference now though

@exio4 i found the cpu https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/athlon-x2-7750-be.c594

7:43 AM

this is what i was using back then

exio4

i was chasing 2% gains

Like a true gentoo user

Egdarska

@exio4 i found the cpu https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/athlon-x2-7750-be.c594

based

7:44 AM

i don't remember what shell i used

My first pc had a 775 celeron

what was busybox's shell?

exio4

what was busybox's shell?

busybox I think it is an alternative to the gnome core utils

gnu but yes

gnome lol I mean gnu

7:45 AM

holy shit I said something very horrible

7:45 AM

Stallman would kill me

what is the app that you could use to create busybox images

7:45 AM

from scratch

I don't know lol

7:46 AM

There is also now musl as an alternative to glibc

Samueru

gnome lol I mean gnu

2

https://buildroot.org

7:47 AM

@Samueru i used buildroot for a lot of the initramfs iirc

7:47 AM

i basically built an embedded linux for the networking setup and a bunch of daemons

today people just use mkinitcpio, which is a shell script iirc

7:47 AM

and some losers use dracut

oh you don't get it? i am autistic i went custom because it was fun to suffer

7:48 AM

this was a hacky mess

7:48 AM

every system update was a struggle because like 50% of the boot process was custom

Nah, during that time that was normal either way

has linux improved tho

7:48 AM

now you fight wayland

exio4

has linux improved tho

depends on who you ask

7:49 AM

some people say that systemd is the devil

7:49 AM

I've found it to boot faster than the alternatives

i thought it was the devil too

7:49 AM

because it broke my scripts

Samueru

Nah, during that time that was normal either way

i got news for you bro

Egdarska

i got news for you bro

I'm waiting lol

https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/atom-n270.c1410

7:50 AM

Looks like egdarska got stuck booting their openrc lol

I don't get it lol

i undervolted this btw

1

bruh could count the cycles with a metronome (edited)

exio4

i thought it was the devil too

Although journald is the devil

7:54 AM

that shit was writting 100mb of logs on my ssd ever hour

why

7:55 AM

>100 MB of logs

7:55 AM

i do 100GB a day

7:55 AM

7:55 AM

and this is without pushing the system

also @exio4 i was going to post this but got distracted

exio4

>100 MB of logs

The issue is that shit was unnecessary

one is native with taa, the other is dlss

if you ssd can't take a few hundred gigabytes a week ur getting scammed

can you guess which is which?

let me check

exio4

if you ssd can't take a few hundred gigabytes a week ur getting scammed

hey don't say much that you have a soldered ssd kek

only 3% of gamers can get this right!

Samueru

hey don't say much that you have a soldered ssd kek

the 2013 macbook i used before had TBs written a week and it's still kicking hard

7:57 AM

it lost software support before the 256GB ssd died (it hasn't died)

Egdarska

can you guess which is which?

the one with higher framerates

My current ssd has 7TB written, which is insanely high given that it is only 3 months old lol

7:58 AM

Like I that checks out to like 80 GB per day

exio4

the one with higher framerates

(so, right?)

lel

exio4

it lost software support before the 256GB ssd died (it hasn't died)

wanna see the smartctl report

the 2013 mac? it's got a broken magsafe port, so i don't really turn it on nowadays, i don't even know where its magsafe charger is

i can't believe the taa is still this broken (edited)

7:59 AM

those pillars look fucked up

let me check this m*c

also i forgot to set lod bias lol

Data Units Read: 55,478,979 [28.4 TB] Data Units Written: 34,349,817 [17.5 TB]

How old is it?

11 months

8:01 AM

but 32GB of RAM

I was doing more writes than you lol

8:01 AM

I did 7TB in 3 months somehow

8:01 AM

I was doing stupid benchmarks constantly lol

nah, I mean, I got most of the writes early too

Like you remember those zip vs zstd benchmarks I did?

when I had 16gb of ram on my desktop, I also did 10TB in a few months

8:01 AM

yeah

holy shit I used to do stuff like that every few days lmao

i thought it would be more

8:02 AM

derp cursor

bro ur cursed is covering that

just noticed lmao

8:02 AM

it's 1640

16940?

8:02 AM

nice

oh wait that's the c drive

Samueru

holy shit I used to do stuff like that every few days lmao

sometimes i go hard on swap

8:02 AM

like when i was doing some shit that needed >40GB of RAM

8:03 AM

so it'd be swapping at 120MB/s constantly lol

let me guess, ai.

that's more like it

yes

this is the game drive

@Samueru

8:03 AM

tell me which hyprland pages are the ones

8:03 AM

I should feed to the llm

let me check wait a sec

jsut tell me the .md files, but keep it a bit tight cuz i dont have that much memory

md files?

8:04 AM

Like I'm on the wiki right now

yes, they're md files, i downloaded the files off github (edited)

8:04 AM

(base) exio4•programming/hyprland-wiki/pages(main)» ls
Configuring                Crashes and Bugs           Getting Started            Hypr Ecosystem             Nix                        Plugins
Contributing and Debugging FAQ                        Home.md                    IPC                        Nvidia                     Useful Utilities

Do they have the same names as the titles of each sub article?

8:05 AM

Ah yes

yes

Start configuring, Variables, keywords, monitors, binds, dispatchers, window rules, workspace rules, animations, using hyprctl (this is really important), and uncommon tips and tricks should be enough.

8:07 AM

get rid of animations though

Egdarska

that's more like it

How old is it? That's the amount of writes I did to a 3 month old ssd lol

Samueru

Start configuring, Variables, keywords, monitors, binds, dispatchers, window rules, workspace rules, animations, using hyprctl (this is really important), and uncommon tips and tricks should be enough.

can you list me the page names?

Those are the names

8:08 AM

All of that is under configuring hyprland lol

8:09 AM

I see it is only one now

./Configuring/Configuring-Hyprland.md ./Configuring/Variables.md ./Configuring/Keywords.md ./Configuring/Monitors.md ./Configuring/Binds.md ./Configuring/Dispatchers.md ./Configuring/Workspace-Rules.md ./Configuring/Using-hyprctl.md ./Configuring/Uncommon-tips-&-tricks.md

8:09 AM

this ok

Yessir

8:12 AM

How is it going? (I have no idea about this)

(it's running)

8:13 AM

poor ssd

nah, i'm using mistral-7b rn

8:14 AM

I am going past the context size though

8:14 AM

it'll be shit lol

Brave uses Mixtral 8x7B, what's the difference?

Mixtral 8x7B is a MoE (mixture of experts) of eight 7 billion models, so it's "8 times the parameter count", but it's not really like that, it's more that they have multiple versions that can vibe with each other

And yours is?

it's still running lol

Samueru

And yours is?

Mistral-7B, the same model

8:16 AM

but I'm also using a Q4 version

8:16 AM

only 32GB of RAM pls

exio4

it's still running lol

shouldn't have taken this long?

and using GPU, so 22 ish GB of VRAM available

8:16 AM

it's doing something one sec

8:16 AM

it's a shit result tho

Samueru

How old is it? That's the amount of writes I did to a 3 month old ssd lol

it's less than i year i'd say

Oh no

8:17 AM

It is telling me what to do instead of writing the config file lmao

8:17 AM

Damn computer does what I say and not what I want lol

exio4

it's doing something one sec

lmao remove xfce4-terminal

 To convert this i3wm config file to a Hyprland config file, you'll need to make several changes:

1. Remove the `#!/usr/bin/env sh` line at the beginning as it is not needed in Hyprland.
2. Replace all instances of `exec --no-startup-id` with `exec`.
3. Replace all instances of `exec_always --no-startup-id` with `exec_always`.
4. Remove all instances of `--no-startup-id` from the commands executed by `exec` and `exec_always`.
5. Replace all instances of `i3-msg` with `hyprctl dispatch`.
6. Replace all instances of `dunstify` with `hyprctl notify`.
7. Remove all instances of `xfce4-terminal` as Hyprland has its own terminal emulator built in.
8. Remove all instances of `xrandr` and related commands as Hyprland handles monitor configuration differently.
9. Replace all instances of `workspace number X` with the corresponding workspace name or ID.
10. Replace all instances of `focus mode_toggle` with `focuswindow`.
11. Remove all instances of `for_window [class="..."] border 1pixel` as Hyprland does not support setting borders for individual windows using a config file.
12. Replace all instances of `bindsym $mod+keyname` with `bind = MOD,keyname,dispatcher,params`.
13. Remove all instances of `exec --no-startup-id` from the bind commands as it is not needed in Hyprland.
14. Replace all instances of `dunstctl history-pop` with `hyprctl dispatch dpms off`.
15. Replace all instances of `pgrep` and `killall` with `hyprctl clients -j | jq '.. | select(.class == "...") | .pid'`.
16. Replace all instances of `i3-msg "[class=..." focus` with `focuswindow [class="..."]`.
17. Remove all instances of `xfce4-popup-clipman`, `xfce4-screenshooter`, and `rofi` as Hyprland has its own clipboard manager and screenshot functionality built in.
18. Replace all instances of `mousepadfix` with `exec_always --no-startup-id "setxkbmap -layout us,latam -option 'grp:alt_shift_toggle'"`.
19. Remove all instances of `xfce4-terminal --title="..."`.
20. Replace all instances of `--disable-history` with an empty string in the rofi commands.
21. Replace all instances of `--monitor -1` with `--monitor DP-1` or the appropriate monitor name for your setup.
22. Remove all instances of `--show-icons` and replace them with `--no-icons` if you don't want icons displayed in the rofi menus.
23. Replace all instances of `--show` with an empty string if you don't want the rofi menus to appear immediately when called. Instead, use a bind command to call the rofi menu and then use another bind command or a dispatcher to handle the selected item.

After making these changes, save the file as `hyprland.conf` in your `~/.config/hypr/` directory and restart Hyprland for the changes to take effect.

Oh no

lol

i'm gonna try codellama, but if i disappear it's because the laptop ran out of RAM and macOS told me to fuck off

i'm gonna disappear because i need to wake up in 7 hours

oh right i can just partially offload the model nowadays

take care

Egdarska

i'm gonna disappear because i need to wake up in 7 hours

good night meow

exio4

 To convert this i3wm config file to a Hyprland config file, you'll need to make several changes:

1. Remove the `#!/usr/bin/env sh` line at the beginning as it is not needed in Hyprland.
2. Replace all instances of `exec --no-startup-id` with `exec`.
3. Replace all instances of `exec_always --no-startup-id` with `exec_always`.
4. Remove all instances of `--no-startup-id` from the commands executed by `exec` and `exec_always`.
5. Replace all instances of `i3-msg` with `hyprctl dispatch`.
6. Replace all instances of `dunstify` with `hyprctl notify`.
7. Remove all instances of `xfce4-terminal` as Hyprland has its own terminal emulator built in.
8. Remove all instances of `xrandr` and related commands as Hyprland handles monitor configuration differently.
9. Replace all instances of `workspace number X` with the corresponding workspace name or ID.
10. Replace all instances of `focus mode_toggle` with `focuswindow`.
11. Remove all instances of `for_window [class="..."] border 1pixel` as Hyprland does not support setting borders for individual windows using a config file.
12. Replace all instances of `bindsym $mod+keyname` with `bind = MOD,keyname,dispatcher,params`.
13. Remove all instances of `exec --no-startup-id` from the bind commands as it is not needed in Hyprland.
14. Replace all instances of `dunstctl history-pop` with `hyprctl dispatch dpms off`.
15. Replace all instances of `pgrep` and `killall` with `hyprctl clients -j | jq '.. | select(.class == "...") | .pid'`.
16. Replace all instances of `i3-msg "[class=..." focus` with `focuswindow [class="..."]`.
17. Remove all instances of `xfce4-popup-clipman`, `xfce4-screenshooter`, and `rofi` as Hyprland has its own clipboard manager and screenshot functionality built in.
18. Replace all instances of `mousepadfix` with `exec_always --no-startup-id "setxkbmap -layout us,latam -option 'grp:alt_shift_toggle'"`.
19. Remove all instances of `xfce4-terminal --title="..."`.
20. Replace all instances of `--disable-history` with an empty string in the rofi commands.
21. Replace all instances of `--monitor -1` with `--monitor DP-1` or the appropriate monitor name for your setup.
22. Remove all instances of `--show-icons` and replace them with `--no-icons` if you don't want icons displayed in the rofi menus.
23. Replace all instances of `--show` with an empty string if you don't want the rofi menus to appear immediately when called. Instead, use a bind command to call the rofi menu and then use another bind command or a dispatcher to handle the selected item.

After making these changes, save the file as `hyprland.conf` in your `~/.config/hypr/` directory and restart Hyprland for the changes to take effect.

18. Replace all instances of mousepadfix with exec_always --no-startup-id "setxkbmap -layout us,latam -option 'grp:alt_shift_toggle'"

8:20 AM

MAKES NO REMOTE SENSE LMAO

8:20 AM

mousepadfix is something that fixes a bug on mousepad, has nothing todo with the keyboard lmao

8:21 AM

fixes this bug: https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-clipman-plugin/-/issues/107

Mousepad sometimes takes a while to quit (#107) · Issues · Panel Pl...

I'm trying to use thunar with devour, which is an application that hides the thunar window when I launch another application from thunar, in this case it is...

i'll probably be back in like 40 minutes because i can't sleep lol

theres a problem

8:21 AM

codellama's context size is 16k in the version i've got

8:21 AM

i need one with an expanded context size

exio4

theres a problem

Looks like rust code to me

Well, thanks a lot for the attempt exio, it really made my day lol

if you find a coding llm that is <=13 billion and supports a context size of >32k

8:24 AM

hmu

That is also rust to me

ok so

8:24 AM

13 billion is the parameter size (higher = better), context size is how much "it can keep in memory"

Oh yeah, iirc brave also has a llama model

8:25 AM

how good is llama 2 13b?

8:26 AM

it is shit btw

it's fine/meh, the context size is very limiting, but it's the base open model that a lot of things were built upon

Mixtral is the really good one with shell scripts

what's mixtral's context size? I haven't really tried running it cuz uh, I only have 32 gigs of RAM kek

No idea, it is not a local model either

8:27 AM

It says that uses Mixtral 8x7B

8:27 AM

I don't know the text limit btw, haven't run into that

i can't really run mixtral 8x7B with a reasonable context size

Also is this more gpu mem or ram heavy?

8:30 AM

Like I remember reading about stablediffusion needing lots of vram but very little about the ram itself

it's memory capacity + memory bandwidth

8:31 AM

you can run it on a CPU

8:31 AM

it'll just be dogshit slow because you don't have GPU levels of bandwidth + AI throughput is mediocre on CPUs

Like an igpu will be better than the cpu?

8:32 AM

I know the cpu will use more power

Samueru

Like an igpu will be better than the cpu?

maybe, on the deck? sure - you get more bandwidth; on PC? I'm not sure

Oh, interesting

8:34 AM

Well gotta hit the bed, take care exio

good night @Samueru ❤️

10:37 AM

i am going to attempt a full refurb of that card actually one day here, just not today.

10:38 AM

in very horrendous shape, to the point where many would likely not even try, or consider it not even worth it.

10:38 AM

but, i have some ideas as long as i can get it physically working and reliable again first.

2

11:23 AM

@Egdarska for when you wake up

11:26 AM

Those are the era of PowerMacs my college had in its computer lab. Is it a G3 or a G4? IIRC, they switched to the all Aluminum chassis before ditching PowerPC for Intel CPUs

Mango9999

Click to see attachment 🖼️

the rust on that DVI port good lord, how do you even get rust like that???

2:56 PM

probably chilling in some moist ass basement for a decade

2

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Bruh

Egdarska

Bruh

i knew u would appreciate it acegikHeart2

>hates blurriness >Fxaa was good

Egdarska

>hates blurriness >Fxaa was good

shimmering the way god intended

exio4

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Both of these comments are cancerous

7:56 PM

FXAA and TAA are both

7:56 PM

TAA can produce a better output, though

we should only allow studios to ship games out once a standardised TAA test is passed

8:08 PM

since that crap is here to stay, they better allow devs to implement it well

GoldenX86_64

we should only allow studios to ship games out once a standardised TAA test is passed

Capcom in tears rn

kek

It's amazing how the engine does pretty much everything amazingly

8:08 PM

But reflections and taa are trash

8:10 PM

REngine has the best character rendering of any engine

8:10 PM

Don't @ me

true that

8:10 PM

proving games can look nice without mandating path tracing

Nah, re8 looks leagues better with rtgi (edited)

REngine is relatively well optimized too

True, but it's also very scalable, if they made mh rise look like dmc5 it probably would have been rough to run

8:14 PM

Kinda wish ghosts n goblins had re8 grafix ngl

DeAthWisH00123

the rust on that DVI port good lord, how do you even get rust like that???

Cat piss?

So… my gpu needs 3x8 pin pci-e cables but the psu has just 2… Are those universal?

Does your PSU have two cables with two 8-pin heads each? Or only one cable with two heads?

9:42 PM

Most modern ones I've seen have at least two VGA cables coming from the PSU, and each has two 8-pin heads. The newest ones also come with the new-fangled 12VHPWR cable that ~~plants crave~~ higher tier Nvidia cards need (edited)

9:42 PM

I may not be using all of the correct terminology, but hopefully those are useful questions. @Steven Vigo

9:43 PM

I'm guessing you're plugging 3 8-pins into one of the 12VHPWR adapters on an Nvidia GPU

If anything happens to this place, I’m going to miss all of the stuff I learn from the hardware channel

Steven Vigo

So… my gpu needs 3x8 pin pci-e cables but the psu has just 2… Are those universal?

well first off what brand, wattage, and config is your psu, as in modular, non-modular, or semi modular?

Slow mode is even in hardware

1

Time to start communicating via reactions

Gpu is a 4080 super fe, psu is a full modular 850w gold

deadlybydsgn

Time to start communicating via reactions

Steven Vigo

Gpu is a 4080 super fe, psu is a full modular 850w gold

It doesn’t have two separate VGA cables? Use 3 8-pin plugs from the two cables into the adapter (edited)

Yes, but the gpu needs 3 of them

10:30 PM

There’s an extra slot in the psu, but the third cable is not included

You don’t need 3 separate cables. Just plug 3 total heads into the adapter

Steven Vigo

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I haven't seen such bs in a while lol

So you think Is safe to use pig-tail?

Berhaps

Yeah, you could even get away by pigtailing a single cable into 3, the 4080 draws like 300W

1

Ah, still slowmode in my favorite channel

Oh, global application (edited)

That’s probably CYA from the GPU manufacturer.

Is worse to try a different brand cable? I have one from an old Corsair 750w

Steven Vigo

Is worse to try a different brand cable? I have one from an old Corsair 750w

YES IT IS WORSE, MODULAR CABLES ARE NOT STANDARD

Yeah, I heard that.

Only do that if you can double check with a multimeter than the output voltage on each pin is the correct one.

Bro really bout to burn his card and house

Nah, I’m here to ask

It is a common issue people have with frying their ssd/hdds, the modular cable can swap 12V and 5V around

Samueru

Only do that if you can double check with a multimeter than the output voltage on each pin is the correct one.

aka don't do it

Yes, not an option

Steven Vigo

Click to see attachment 🖼️

yeah thats some bullshit, just use 2 pci cables and daisy chain the 3rd connecter, also never ever EVER use power supply cables that didnt come with your power supply even within the same brand, if you do this you WILL destroy every component in your computer

12:43 AM

you will hear a weird sound for a split second, followed by some smoke, and almost 2000 dollars gone in an instant

But for a split second it will be the fastest gpu in the world

DeAthWisH00123

yeah thats some bullshit, just use 2 pci cables and daisy chain the 3rd connecter, also never ever EVER use power supply cables that didnt come with your power supply even within the same brand, if you do this you WILL destroy every component in your computer

It is also not like that, usually what gets fried is the ssd/hdd. For the gpu cable if the pinout is wrong what you would get is a dead short and the pc not turning on, may or may not fry the gpu at most.

yeah maybe if you get lucky, ive definitely heard about multiple people frying their entire systems by using different psu cables, its never worth it regardless

No that's not true lmao

well, yes it actually is, while good high end name brand psu's will have more safety features and circuit protection, older cheaper, lower wattage psu's may not have these extra saftey features can definitely fry major hardware componets, not everyone has 850w platinum thor power supplies

Bro, even the cheapest low end flyback psu has the basic protections, you cannot even bypass them as it is part of the feedback ic.

12:55 AM

And also this isn't about the protections, it is what happens when you miswire the pinout of the psu cables, you have a dead short circuit. Same way when you short your kitchen outlet doesn't mean that every single kitchen appliance will be damaged lol

computer parts are much more delicate compared to kitchen appliences, thats not really a comparison lol

say that to the smartfridge

lol, a smartfridge is just a fridge with, a computer

No, they really aren't btw, you afci breaker is more delicate then your gpu to power fluctuations, and bro if you want I can even pull you the schematic of a moderm atx psu and explain how every little part works, as long as you are actually willing to learn that btw.

Good luck with slow mode kek

hahaha

1:06 AM

In fact the high usage for afci and gfci breakers is why the nec now requires surge protection in homes, not because of appliances, the issue is that those electronics devices use a simple capacitor dropper circuit to get the low voltage they need to operate, and that circuit basically has no regulation and makes it very sensitive to any fluctuation. So homes lost those basic protections over time and people weren't even aware.

Egdarska

But reflections and taa are trash

reflections are funny

@exio4 wtf i want a VII now

u don't want one, they tend to kill themselves lol (the glue they use for the hbm randomly breaks or something, can't remember) (edited)

exio4

u don't want one, they tend to kill themselves lol (the glue they use for the hbm randomly breaks or something, can't remember) (edited)

i thought that was just the people who bought them

Egdarska

i thought that was just the people who bought them

no, its kinda double worse - the cards are already likely to die, and just opening them up basically guarantees its death

lol, hey it runs alan wake 2 at 40fps https://youtu.be/MkjKvNGaN24?t=52

Beisepimp

ALAN WAKE 2 vs RX 6500XT , RX 5700XT , RX 6600M , RX 580 & Radeon VII

Egdarska

lol, hey it runs alan wake 2 at 40fps https://youtu.be/MkjKvNGaN24?t=52

it's better than the 1080 Ti

Egdarska

lol, hey it runs alan wake 2 at 40fps https://youtu.be/MkjKvNGaN24?t=52

funny

I just want one for the looks

radeon VII does look sick ngl

i do like things that look like air conditioners

Egdarska

i do like things that look like air conditioners

What does the 295X2 look like to you?

Samueru

What does the 295X2 look like to you?

a mistake

lmao

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

"mesh shaders", with air quotes, i love it

Samueru

What does the 295X2 look like to you?

looks kinda cool, space odyssey vibes

I miss the days of the dual chip cards though, when the 295X2 release it was the highest power hog ever until the 4090 released.

i still think the OG titan is one of the coolest looking gpus

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7930/the-amd-radeon-r9-295x2-review this? it looks ugly imo (also, 4090 is technically lower TDP at stock, 450W vs 500W, 3090 is lower tdp too) (edited)

The AMD Radeon R9 295X2 Review

exio4

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7930/the-amd-radeon-r9-295x2-review this? it looks ugly imo (also, 4090 is technically lower TDP at stock, 450W vs 500W, 3090 is lower tdp too) (edited)

you like apple products tho, your opinion doesn't count

Oh I was under the impression that the 4090 was more power hungry, most be the spikes it can draw. (It also looks ugly to me lol) (edited)

Egdarska

you like apple products tho, your opinion doesn't count

give me this instead smh

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12009/nvidia-launches-star-wars-themed-titan-xp-collectors-edition-graphics-cards

NVIDIA Launches Star Wars Themed Titan Xp Collector’s Edition Graph...

i hate slow mode, can't spam with thoughts as they come to my mind @Samueru 4090 is better on spikes than the 3090 in that regard, ada is a general improvement @Egdarska https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ093AM/A/radeon-pro-w6800x-duo-mpx-module you have a point, they do look better when Apple does it ^ also, dual GPUs existed in the Apple world until recently @Samueru

Radeon Pro W6800X Duo MPX Module

To push your graphics performance even further, choose the Radeon Pro W6800X Duo MPX Module, which is ideal for even the most demanding multi-GPU pro applications. The module has two W6800X GPUs, each with 32GB of GDDR6 memory delivering up to 512GB/s memory bandwidth. The two GPUs are connected onboard with Infinity Fabric Link, and two W6800X ...

i love how this mf looks

exio4

i hate slow mode, can't spam with thoughts as they come to my mind @Samueru 4090 is better on spikes than the 3090 in that regard, ada is a general improvement @Egdarska https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ093AM/A/radeon-pro-w6800x-duo-mpx-module you have a point, they do look better when Apple does it ^ also, dual GPUs existed in the Apple world until recently @Samueru

That's a monster lol

Egdarska

i love how this mf looks

thats the most "im a gamer trust me" look they could have possibly put together lol

yeah, it's completely unnecessary

Samueru

That's a monster lol

lower tdp cuz its for workstation stuff, not g*mer

Omg did you see the box art of the new amd gpu? that shit is cringe with the AI stuff

YUZU-EMU.ORG provides detailed instructions 1 and FAQs on how to install Yuzu and get it running with unlawful copies of Nintendo Switch games. lmao if only lying in legal documents was illegal (edited)

Samueru

Omg did you see the box art of the new amd gpu? that shit is cringe with the AI stuff

>"AI quickset" >can't run ROCm on Windows >ROCm crashes if you look at it too hard >it doesn't even have proper matrix units

It is AI but without the I

Samueru

Omg did you see the box art of the new amd gpu? that shit is cringe with the AI stuff

>AI >can't do most ai shit

Egdarska

YUZU-EMU.ORG provides detailed instructions 1 and FAQs on how to install Yuzu and get it running with unlawful copies of Nintendo Switch games. lmao if only lying in legal documents was illegal (edited)

truth bending, just in time for the avatar netflix show

1

https://www.phoronix.com/review/aarch64-64k-kernel-perf tldr 15% performance improvement with hugepages

64K Kernel Page Size Performance Benefits For HPC Shown With NVIDIA...

By default the AArch64 kernel on Ubuntu and other Linux distributions tend to default to a standard 4K page size but for newer AArch64 hardware especially in the server/HPC space, there can be great benefits to using a 64K page size.

can't wait for lockpicking lawyer to be sued by master lock for circumventing their security in the locks he bought

1

Samueru

https://www.phoronix.com/review/aarch64-64k-kernel-perf tldr 15% performance improvement with hugepages

that's a big uplift

exio4

that's a big uplift

And windows 11 was already lagging badly on previous similar benchmarks, like never before there had been such difference. And now you also have that on top (had to edit because of the timeout lol) (edited)

3:37 AM

https://www.phoronix.com/review/threadripper-7995wx-linux-5 (This is without the hugepages)

Benchmarking Five Linux Distros Against Windows 11 On The Threadrip...

Given the interest in the AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX Linux performance and the benchmarks of Ubuntu Linux vs.

Egdarska

can't wait for lockpicking lawyer to be sued by master lock for circumventing their security in the locks he bought

maybe they don't do it cuz lockpicking lawyer Jensenthumb

@Samueru yeah, i mean, theres a reason linux is used for a lot of these workloads lol

exio4

maybe they don't do it cuz lockpicking lawyer Jensenthumb

@Samueru yeah, i mean, theres a reason linux is used for a lot of these workloads lol

It really wasn't that big like 10 years ago, linux even struggled when you had too many cores.

what a chad os Imagine needing more than one core (edited)

i am annoyed as heck by the slowmode i miss the good old days (yesterday night) when we shitpost in the middle of the night and talk about random tech

nintendo ruins yet another thing

2

3:43 AM

i don't even know why hardware is slowed, most people discussing the recent developments just ignore it

Gotta talk in realtime by editing the current message over and over now (I agree it makes sense to slow down for now) (edited)

i think it makes sense to slow down all channels a bit just in case but yeah, #hardware is usually just were the nerds (us

) talk lol and yes, 1 minute is tough (edited)

1 minute tho

my pizza is almost ready, i had to add reggianito cheese cuz i ran out of uhh, pizza cheese

Make the slowdown 0 seconds for macos and linux users, that also fixes the problem of the possible spam due to the news since nobody using that will be spamming the server lol

Samueru

Make the slowdown 0 seconds for macos and linux users, that also fixes the problem of the possible spam due to the news since nobody using that will be spamming the server lol

@Egdarska is on windows tho, and macos is like 3 regular people in the server whole server at best smh

Edgarska can just install a linux wm in the meantime lol

yeah i'll just download a hannah montana linux iso

2

btw @Samueru what linux distro now is the DSL of today? you know, the tiny distro that is useless but runs on ~~32mb~~ 2gb of ram? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_Small_Linux (edited)

Damn Small Linux

Damn Small Linux (DSL) is a computer operating system for the x86 family of personal computers. It is free and open-source software under the terms of the GNU GPL and other free and open-source licenses. It was designed to run graphical user interface applications on older PC hardware, for example, machines with 486 and early Pentium microproces...

DSL? Oh, that would be alpine (edited)

3:52 AM

But alpine is pain, it uses musl, busybox and no systemd

dsl was a pain too it was like, overly tiny, so you had 0 libraries for anything 99% of the time lol what are the hardware requirements of alpine? realistic ones (edited)

Also alpine is one of the few non GNU/Linux distros, it is just linux. (edited)

exio4

dsl was a pain too it was like, overly tiny, so you had 0 libraries for anything 99% of the time lol what are the hardware requirements of alpine? realistic ones (edited)

that's ignoring that you need a browser and all that, doesn't it?

exio4

dsl was a pain too it was like, overly tiny, so you had 0 libraries for anything 99% of the time lol what are the hardware requirements of alpine? realistic ones (edited)

we made a tiny os, you just can't use shit

exio4

that's ignoring that you need a browser and all that, doesn't it?

Yeah, void is also small, and I compared void to archlinux, the usage was like: Storage Void 3.5 GIB / Arch 5 GiB. IDLE RAM: Void 350 MB / Arch 600 MB. Void didn't even have killall installed by default lol

3:58 AM

(Arch booted faster than void though, pro of systemd-boot)

i ate all my pizza, it's joever @Egdarska yes, that's the linux way, the fun is the packages we installed along the way Jensenthumb

@Samueru that's quite a lot of RAM compared to the old days lol

exio4

i ate all my pizza, it's joever @Egdarska yes, that's the linux way, the fun is the packages we installed along the way Jensenthumb

@Samueru that's quite a lot of RAM compared to the old days lol

just install a program bro

exio4

i ate all my pizza, it's joever @Egdarska yes, that's the linux way, the fun is the packages we installed along the way Jensenthumb

@Samueru that's quite a lot of RAM compared to the old days lol

That was also on my full i3wm setup with kdeconnect, polybar, xfce4-clipman running in the background, and also the kernel caches a bit more ram when you have more available, the usage would not be the same if you only had 2GiB of ram total for example

@Egdarska thats the funny, now you need a compiler, and the .so and the other libc, and when you least realize its joever @Samueru oh its including cache? then it's kinda misleading if cache counts then i've got 100% ram usage like 95% of the time lol (edited)

speaking of ram, that athlon pc i mentioned yesterday was "vista ready" and had 2GB of ram before i upgraded it (edited)

exio4

@Egdarska thats the funny, now you need a compiler, and the .so and the other libc, and when you least realize its joever @Samueru oh its including cache? then it's kinda misleading if cache counts then i've got 100% ram usage like 95% of the time lol (edited)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFIlBIYCBY

Mental Outlaw

Flexin Musl on Void Linux

Samueru

Omg did you see the box art of the new amd gpu? that shit is cringe with the AI stuff

It's "for AI", but it's a $550 GPU with only 16GB of VRAM

the ram is the least of its problems a 4GB gpu will beat it because it can at least attempt to run shit (edited)

2

GoldenSun3DS

It's "for AI", but it's a $550 GPU with only 16GB of VRAM

it's slower than a 4060 kek

(and the software stack is MIA) (edited)

GoldenSun3DS

It's "for AI", but it's a $550 GPU with only 16GB of VRAM

Boy if you had issues getting arc to run stable diffusion I have some news about amd

Samueru

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFIlBIYCBY

"it's not based of arch or debian, it's just based" i cannot, that fucking got me

1

i still kinda want an intel gpu just for fun

I now have RTX 4060 Ti 16GB that I bought on Amazon for $440 and I'm going to be buying a second

Some of us are just born to suffer, I guess

exio4

it's slower than a 4060 kek

(and the software stack is MIA) (edited)

>best amd (edited)

4:07 AM

i still can't believe they had the gall to put a 900 on that

Egdarska

i still kinda want an intel gpu just for fun

it suffers from linuxitis rn (run the intel branch, not the main branch, because they've been working on it non-stop for years

), but the hardware is promising, i'm very excited about their second gen, like - unironically getting a proper competitor in the GPU space, good encoders and all that also, smh, outdated, 4070 Super is the new king @deadlybydsgn what do u mean by suffer tho @GoldenSun3DS did you get rid of the arc gpu yet

i still can't believe they had the gall to put a 900 on that

@Egdarska this isn't actually the price they wanted, it was supposed to be higher lol [if it hit the frequencies it was supposed to, it was gonna be an almost-4090 in raster performance] (edited)

why is slowmode enabled, yall must have been bad (edited)

exio4

it suffers from linuxitis rn (run the intel branch, not the main branch, because they've been working on it non-stop for years

), but the hardware is promising, i'm very excited about their second gen, like - unironically getting a proper competitor in the GPU space, good encoders and all that also, smh, outdated, 4070 Super is the new king @deadlybydsgn what do u mean by suffer tho @GoldenSun3DS did you get rid of the arc gpu yet

i still can't believe they had the gall to put a 900 on that

@Egdarska this isn't actually the price they wanted, it was supposed to be higher lol [if it hit the frequencies it was supposed to, it was gonna be an almost-4090 in raster performance] (edited)

I was just joking about golden buying another 4060ti 16gb. I get that he uses it for AI but we know it's a bad value for anybody else

Petracore

why is slowmode enabled, yall must have been bad (edited)

Exio went on a rant about macos the other day and that is why

1

2

1

1

Petracore

why is slowmode enabled, yall must have been bad (edited)

nintendo being little bitch babies again

Egdarska

nintendo being little bitch babies again

wait what? how so

Petracore

wait what? how so

nintendo is mad people want their games to be playable so they sued yuzu

Petracore

wait what? how so

You might want to sit down for this

1

OH BOY i missed some stuff

imagine releasing pokemon scarlet in the state it's in, charging $60 plus dlc for it, and thinking you're the victim

I was just joking about golden buying another 4060ti 16gb. I get that he uses it for AI but we know it's a bad value for anybody else

@deadlybydsgn ever since NVIDIA/OEMs cut down the prices down to "low-mid 400s" it has been decent value, not great, but not bad either, it's better than all of AMD for RT, AI, etc

wait what? how so

@Petracore be careful out there, ninty ninjas are gonna steal ur organs

Exio went on a rant about macos the other day and that is why

@Samueru i wish it was this fr, it'd be so less anxiety inducing lol I'm gonna reply this way because slowmode sucks, but let's listen to an eurovision song in the background https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwyefl6itpI (edited)

Chanel Official

Chanel - SloMo (Official Video) [Eurovision 2022]

exio4

I was just joking about golden buying another 4060ti 16gb. I get that he uses it for AI but we know it's a bad value for anybody else

@deadlybydsgn ever since NVIDIA/OEMs cut down the prices down to "low-mid 400s" it has been decent value, not great, but not bad either, it's better than all of AMD for RT, AI, etc

wait what? how so

@Petracore be careful out there, ninty ninjas are gonna steal ur organs

Exio went on a rant about macos the other day and that is why

@Samueru i wish it was this fr, it'd be so less anxiety inducing lol I'm gonna reply this way because slowmode sucks, but let's listen to an eurovision song in the background https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwyefl6itpI (edited)

that's a good yurovision song but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSsRZaa0wPo

Nightwish Arena

NIGHTWISH

Sleepwalker

Eurovision Song Contest

2000

REMAS...

@Egdarska I didn't know nightwish had been in Eurovision, wtf that's hella neat

imho, radeon can be a solid get if all you're going for is gaming, you dont care about drivers (a tinkerer or just a masochist), or blender, or ML, or RT in some cases. if you want somethin else, your default should be Nvidia. yes its a lot of stipulations for a radeon card to be justified, and i do agree that it should be better than it is now, but like, not everyone is buying a GPU for productivity, some just want to enjoy games, occasional driver bugs (and very occasional silicon issues) be damned. get what you prefer basically! just make sure to buy a product you prefer and not a brand you prefer, since in some cases it does make more sense to go for an Nvidia card over Radeon, even just for gaming performance.

exio4

it suffers from linuxitis rn (run the intel branch, not the main branch, because they've been working on it non-stop for years

), but the hardware is promising, i'm very excited about their second gen, like - unironically getting a proper competitor in the GPU space, good encoders and all that also, smh, outdated, 4070 Super is the new king @deadlybydsgn what do u mean by suffer tho @GoldenSun3DS did you get rid of the arc gpu yet

i still can't believe they had the gall to put a 900 on that

@Egdarska this isn't actually the price they wanted, it was supposed to be higher lol [if it hit the frequencies it was supposed to, it was gonna be an almost-4090 in raster performance] (edited)

Sold the A770 16GB to a guy from Facebook Marketplace. @deadlybydsgn Yep, getting it for AI. LLMs specifically, which need LOTS of VRAM.

I'm keeping mine, even though it's in a box.

yeah bro, buy a shittier product and just deal with it lol

@LukeTheVideoGamer the biggest issue on that regard is that we're living in a world where even image quality differs, etc if it's just playing "games", an Xbox Series S offers the best value, humiliating the whole PC market - with gamepass as a killer deal as well; you can find one for $200 or so at times - and it'll do so with more stability than anything else in the PC market from AMD basically @GoldenSun3DS neat you could make some cash on it meowPatPat

how are you liking the 4060 Ti's software experience btw? i don't remember if i asked @OldManKain A770 16G? 4060 Ti 16G? i missed the convo i think meow (edited)

My A770 16GB is chilling in a box, I was a day one adopter.

exio4

@Egdarska I didn't know nightwish had been in Eurovision, wtf that's hella neat

they lost, but i really love that song

OldManKain

My A770 16GB is chilling in a box, I was a day one adopter.

i'll give you a hundred bucks for it

@OldManKain I'm jealous, I actually wanna pick an A380 at some point (assuming A770s disappear), just to have a way to test their software regularly :3 @Egdarska it's ok, they won our hearts @GoldenSun3DS i meant for AI stuff, if you've noticed any woes

(edited)

exio4

@LukeTheVideoGamer the biggest issue on that regard is that we're living in a world where even image quality differs, etc if it's just playing "games", an Xbox Series S offers the best value, humiliating the whole PC market - with gamepass as a killer deal as well; you can find one for $200 or so at times - and it'll do so with more stability than anything else in the PC market from AMD basically @GoldenSun3DS neat you could make some cash on it meowPatPat

how are you liking the 4060 Ti's software experience btw? i don't remember if i asked @OldManKain A770 16G? 4060 Ti 16G? i missed the convo i think meow (edited)

Honestly, I haven't really been playing games much lately other than Mario Maker on my Switch. But the drivers are fine. I'm used to NVidia since I had a 1070 Ti awhile back.

I want a newer GPU but don't play enough to justify it. Such is life. Returning the 4070Ti was the right call for me

exio4

@LukeTheVideoGamer the biggest issue on that regard is that we're living in a world where even image quality differs, etc if it's just playing "games", an Xbox Series S offers the best value, humiliating the whole PC market - with gamepass as a killer deal as well; you can find one for $200 or so at times - and it'll do so with more stability than anything else in the PC market from AMD basically @GoldenSun3DS neat you could make some cash on it meowPatPat

how are you liking the 4060 Ti's software experience btw? i don't remember if i asked @OldManKain A770 16G? 4060 Ti 16G? i missed the convo i think meow (edited)

imho skill issue just dont use fsr lmao (this is a joke, its perfectly understandable to not like FSR or even XeSS DP4a, let alone to be stuck with it, but its also okay sometimes for people to try and prioritize native resolution gaming above all else, where image quality will be not too noticeably different between brands of cards, but regardless...)

exio4

@OldManKain I'm jealous, I actually wanna pick an A380 at some point (assuming A770s disappear), just to have a way to test their software regularly :3 @Egdarska it's ok, they won our hearts @GoldenSun3DS i meant for AI stuff, if you've noticed any woes

(edited)

how the fuck do intel names work for gpus? is it like 80 is the best of the shit tier?

@Egdarska A = generation, Battlemage, Celestial first number = i3/i5/i7/(i9?) other numbers = performance within that tier

LukeTheVideoGamer

imho skill issue just dont use fsr lmao (this is a joke, its perfectly understandable to not like FSR or even XeSS DP4a, let alone to be stuck with it, but its also okay sometimes for people to try and prioritize native resolution gaming above all else, where image quality will be not too noticeably different between brands of cards, but regardless...)

now try to find a modern game that actually has native resolution basically only thr G buffer will be full resolution and sometimes not even that

Egdarska

how the fuck do intel names work for gpus? is it like 80 is the best of the shit tier?

First number is higher tier 80 is the highest tier for that tier. (edited)

4:22 AM

750 770 780 350 370 380 550 570 580. of course some were never released.

Egdarska

how the fuck do intel names work for gpus? is it like 80 is the best of the shit tier?

okay so basically Intel ARC, that's the brand name. the letter at the front after "Intel ARC" is the architecture, or generation. A for Alchemist, B for Battlemage, so on. the number after that is the class, it follows their CPUs closely, 3 for low end, 5 for mid-range, and 7 for high-end (well, "high-end") and the two numbers after that denotes how much performance you should expect, basically another smaller tier. A770 is the "70-class" card in the high-end class of the Alchemist architecture.

1

the 3 5 7 was to coincide with i3 i5 i7

so it's like i thought then, that seems kinda confusing for the average buyer specially because they already have a 580 gpu, but it's mobile (edited)

honestly its only a little more confusing than "GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Super" or "Radeon RX 7900XTX"

exio4

@OldManKain I'm jealous, I actually wanna pick an A380 at some point (assuming A770s disappear), just to have a way to test their software regularly :3 @Egdarska it's ok, they won our hearts @GoldenSun3DS i meant for AI stuff, if you've noticed any woes

(edited)

Get a A580 instead, the difference in price is like 60 usd and it is a much better card

good luck finding arc in argentina

ngl the A580 is on my radar right now, just waiting to see how mesa is improving in the short term

lemme check what's available in argie land

4:28 AM

between general chat checking

@GoldenSun3DS i assume it's just working so well it's "irrelevant" (for AI specifically) @LukeTheVideoGamer repeating what @Egdarska said, native is dead crabrave

@Samueru i'd get either the cheapest 6GB card, to try things, or the 16G card to try to get cool shit running on them for real @OldManKain can you ~confirm~ it? acegikMeow_with_power_eyes

exio4

@GoldenSun3DS i assume it's just working so well it's "irrelevant" (for AI specifically) @LukeTheVideoGamer repeating what @Egdarska said, native is dead crabrave

@Samueru i'd get either the cheapest 6GB card, to try things, or the 16G card to try to get cool shit running on them for real @OldManKain can you ~confirm~ it? acegikMeow_with_power_eyes

native lives on in my heart~!!!

exio4

@GoldenSun3DS i assume it's just working so well it's "irrelevant" (for AI specifically) @LukeTheVideoGamer repeating what @Egdarska said, native is dead crabrave

@Samueru i'd get either the cheapest 6GB card, to try things, or the 16G card to try to get cool shit running on them for real @OldManKain can you ~confirm~ it? acegikMeow_with_power_eyes

None of my ex co-workers at intel work in the gpu development department so probably not

I usually just get something like "It's better than we expected"

it works and we don't know why

I have one ex co worker that likes to send me stuff like that all the time, "Man wait until you see such and such it's amazing" He's usually not wrong.

OldManKain

Click to see attachment 🖼️

assuming other general efficiency improvements generation over generation, even if Battlemage doesnt perform significantly better over Alchemist, with these rumored specs, it should at least draw less power, but i'll believe it when i see it :p still, pretty exciting if true!

@OldManKain dont tease me like that smh @LukeTheVideoGamer i wish there was a way to render everything natively today tbh

I'm hoping intel can take that low-mid range market. tired of 1000.00 GPU's

exio4

@OldManKain dont tease me like that smh @LukeTheVideoGamer i wish there was a way to render everything natively today tbh

cyberpunk psycho settings no dlss

living that 10fps lifestyle

only 2 used a770 and a new a750 in argentina

Egdarska

cyberpunk psycho settings no dlss

I'm happy with 72fps locked 1440p everything maxed DLSS Quality with path tracing on my 4070 TI.

for the games i usually play, all of which would perform great with the available native rendering options, an RX 6700 XT or even gasp a 7700 XT would perform pretty great! admittedly, most of those games are before 2020... or even 2019...

@Egdarska no, the game uses variable rate shading [if available], DLAA disables it though but even then, a lot of effects are sub-native @OldManKain i see intel as on a clear path to take intel's place and be a healthy second competitor, the high-high-end? gonna be NVIDIA for a while, but damn, I've got hope for intel gpus, hope it isn't unfounded lol @GoldenX86_64 i'd order from overseas, and the a380 - it's like $280 or so for that one @LukeTheVideoGamer those will have dlss tho Noo

does the a380 have RT?

4:37 AM

ah yeah it does

4:37 AM

like a 6400 but it has it

@GoldenX86_64 all Arc does, i'd not be shocked if it outperforms the lower-end AMD gpus [when drivers don't misbehave] because their RT core has much more grunt meow (edited)

I do find it funny if I choose performance cores only in CP2077 on my 12700KF I lose 10fps. (edited)

they do indeed, i remember extrapolating the a380 numbers now and it was no joke even with early drivers

The A580 already gives you 6600ish levels of performance with mesa, it is a 160 usd gpu

keywords "with mesa"

Very important word indeed lol

exio4

@Egdarska no, the game uses variable rate shading [if available], DLAA disables it though but even then, a lot of effects are sub-native @OldManKain i see intel as on a clear path to take intel's place and be a healthy second competitor, the high-high-end? gonna be NVIDIA for a while, but damn, I've got hope for intel gpus, hope it isn't unfounded lol @GoldenX86_64 i'd order from overseas, and the a380 - it's like $280 or so for that one @LukeTheVideoGamer those will have dlss tho Noo

surprisingly, i think the only games i have that would support DLSS are... Halo Infinite (does that even support DLSS? i forget.), Portal with RTX (unplayable on Radeon anyway, and i think it's mid anyway), Tekken 8 (but that's just the demo, i do hope to get the full game some day though, and it does have native res rendering for the record!), and Baldur's Gate 3.

i don't trust anv, but that's still MILES better than the windows driver right now, that's amazing linux value

Truthfully if you were going to fork out 180USD on a 580 I'd just get the 750 for 220.

depends of the power budget too

exio4

@GoldenX86_64 all Arc does, i'd not be shocked if it outperforms the lower-end AMD gpus [when drivers don't misbehave] because their RT core has much more grunt meow (edited)

battlemage hopes and dreams i sincerely hope it's good, at least on the hardware side

I paid 350USD for my A770 16GB and you can get them for 290 now.

OldManKain

Truthfully if you were going to fork out 180USD on a 580 I'd just get the 750 for 220.

I got a 580 for 50 usd

@GoldenX86_64 this is also their first real attempt at RT, ngl what a way to start lol @OldManKain it's like the "SMT fix" for ryzen cpus, it's all a conspiracy made by redditors, the default had better frametimes lol @Samueru you lose XeSS tho Noo

edit: he meant the A580 not RX 580 lol @LukeTheVideoGamer "native rendering is dead" is because deferred rendering has led to all games rendering effects at sub-native look at hair, it is gonna be dithered, look at screen space reflections, look at RT (i know. i know) all of these are extremely noisy and need temporal accumulation to get cleaned up edit: volumetrics are also funny (edited)

still waiting for drivers it's not a full product until drivers are usable

1

4:43 AM

risked the iris xe and got burned, it's useless

4:44 AM

"the future is xe" and it's just a slightly faster gen9 for desktop use

broken drivers can be fixed bad hardware can't be xdd

exio4

@GoldenX86_64 this is also their first real attempt at RT, ngl what a way to start lol @OldManKain it's like the "SMT fix" for ryzen cpus, it's all a conspiracy made by redditors, the default had better frametimes lol @Samueru you lose XeSS tho Noo

edit: he meant the A580 not RX 580 lol @LukeTheVideoGamer "native rendering is dead" is because deferred rendering has led to all games rendering effects at sub-native look at hair, it is gonna be dithered, look at screen space reflections, look at RT (i know. i know) all of these are extremely noisy and need temporal accumulation to get cleaned up edit: volumetrics are also funny (edited)

that's understandable. those things dont really bother me that much admittedly though, but i guess im the outlier in that. if someone is actually bothered by, or does prefer better image quality, then yeah that's reason enough to get an Nvidia GPU over Radeon, but for me personally? not that big of a downside.

LPhin

broken drivers can be fixed bad hardware can't be xdd

alchemist had both

Arc drivers have gotten pretty good except on 2 games that I know of that should be getting around 50-60fps get 5-10 on an A770. Starfield, and GTA V.

forza motorsport also doesn't work (i have to retest it) and vulkan is still useless

OldManKain

Arc drivers have gotten pretty good except on 2 games that I know of that should be getting around 50-60fps get 5-10 on an A770. Starfield, and GTA V.

GTA V should run much better with mesa if it runs btw

I give the driver team an A++ for a product so far in it's infancy.

LukeTheVideoGamer

that's understandable. those things dont really bother me that much admittedly though, but i guess im the outlier in that. if someone is actually bothered by, or does prefer better image quality, then yeah that's reason enough to get an Nvidia GPU over Radeon, but for me personally? not that big of a downside.

it's like, if i had a 3060, and i moved to a 7700 XT, the downsides in features, application support, and image quality wouldnt be enough reasons for me to move back to the 3060, let me put it that way. same if i moved from my 1650 to an A580, even buggy drivers wouldnt push me back towards this 1650.

@GoldenX86_64 if we go by checking all the boxes, then it's either NVIDIA or NVIDIA then meow (but I know, raster rendering is important, and AMD has "a lead" there by lacking in everywhere else; e.g. encoders are better on Intel) you also get the early-Xe tho, it's legit alpha testing the beta test, it's very much RDNA1 vs RDNA2 moment @LukeTheVideoGamer that's the key tho, it doesn't bother almost anybody because TAA is a thing, and most people on PC use NVIDIA so they get DLSS lol

exio4

@Egdarska no, the game uses variable rate shading [if available], DLAA disables it though but even then, a lot of effects are sub-native @OldManKain i see intel as on a clear path to take intel's place and be a healthy second competitor, the high-high-end? gonna be NVIDIA for a while, but damn, I've got hope for intel gpus, hope it isn't unfounded lol @GoldenX86_64 i'd order from overseas, and the a380 - it's like $280 or so for that one @LukeTheVideoGamer those will have dlss tho Noo

i fucking hate upscaling fr

iris xe is 3 cpu generations old by now

Speaking of TAA why is Forza Horizon 5 the only game that has it implemented decently that I've played.

doom has good taa but yeah generally most TAA implementations are so bad that somehow FSR2 is a better TAA (edited)

good question

FH5's TAA is kinda wack, it performs weirdly to me, and on deck I don't really gain performance with upscaling (even FSR2), just lower power consumption - and on my desktop I also didn't gain performance w/ DLSS yes, I always upscale, fite me edit: DLAA is nice but something like XeSS Ultra quality is a good middle ground, it's nearly native but it is slightly lower resolution so it doesn't feel as demanding (edited)

I do like DLAA.

LPhin

doom has good taa but yeah generally most TAA implementations are so bad that somehow FSR2 is a better TAA (edited)

fsr2 isn't a bad taa, the problem it has is it's competing with dlss. In a vacuum, fsr2 is pretty great for being a generic taa (edited)

@Egdarska or something like xess dp4a/xmx, or TSR for unreal games lol

4:53 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-RoPmzJ0sw youtube just recommended this song after the slo-mo one, and is this fucking upscaler with FSR1? it looks like they put 7 sharpening filters on it

EmiliaMusicVEVO

Emilia - Exclusive.mp3 (Visualizer)

too bad xess and TSR aren't open source godot had to implement FSR2 because of this (edited)

Egdarska

fsr2 isn't a bad taa, the problem it has is it's competing with dlss. In a vacuum, fsr2 is pretty great for being a generic taa (edited)

I think the main problem with fsr2 is people over sharpen it too much to give it that baked look edit same with FSR. (edited)

XeSS was gonna be open-source, one day...

can't Godot implement Streamline tho

intel moment, says they will open source, forget

OldManKain

I think the main problem with fsr2 is people over sharpen it too much to give it that baked look edit same with FSR. (edited)

FSR2 is very bad at the things TAA is "meant to be good at", like foliage, shimmering is hell of an issue on it

XeSS is pretty damn good, can't wait for EX XeSS.

frame reprojection, frame extrapolation, all of these techniques really hype me up for the future we truly need to tell native rendering to fuck off once for all, and just embrace it the way VR has done

exio4

@Egdarska or something like xess dp4a/xmx, or TSR for unreal games lol

uh, i just realized i hadn't properly applied the lod bias to the game before, so the comparison is more brutal now i'm not even going to label them (edited)

Egdarska

uh, i just realized i hadn't properly applied the lod bias to the game before, so the comparison is more brutal now i'm not even going to label them (edited)

"im not even going to label them" damn i am actually lost with this comparison :( ah well, i can at least make some guesses. not gonna say them tho cuz i dont wanna look like even more of an idiot

this is dlss applied as a janky mod btw

in Virtual Reality, all frames are technically fake; and Meta has been working on game-aware spacewarp/frame doubling for a while https://developer.oculus.com/blog/introducing-application-spacewarp/ (the latest one, already shipping in games) this is

@Egdarska bro no fucking way you're also doing DLSS Balanced or what? cuz of the frames lol (edited)

Introducing Application SpaceWarp

Application SpaceWarp (AppSW) is a developer-driven optimization technology that can unlock extra computation power for suitable content. In our initial testing, Application SpaceWarp gave applications up to 70 percent additional compute, potentially with little to no perceptible artifacts.

exio4

in Virtual Reality, all frames are technically fake; and Meta has been working on game-aware spacewarp/frame doubling for a while https://developer.oculus.com/blog/introducing-application-spacewarp/ (the latest one, already shipping in games) this is

@Egdarska bro no fucking way you're also doing DLSS Balanced or what? cuz of the frames lol (edited)

dlss quality, that's with RT

exio4

XeSS was gonna be open-source, one day...

can't Godot implement Streamline tho

their current rendering pipeline isn't really compatible with extensions, so that's off the table for now also, they can't really ship xess or dlss blobs with the engine, because that's against their whole thing of being open source and xess hasn't implemented streamline support anyways

oh, I see, RT makes the delta bigger fair yeah, streamline is kinda dead cuz intel also dropped out of it

but i wish they open-sourced xess dp4a at least, it's too good fr

don't worry, microsoft is coming with their own

5:04 AM

on an API level

introducing copilot SS

i thought of the wrong SS right there

bet you that's why SR is more used

exio4

i thought of the wrong SS right there

3

thought of my funny uncle fr

you also have an uncle who seems normal until someone mentions the juden? i think we all have that uncle tbf (edited)

the great dictator is one of the best movies of all time, and that's as far as this discussion goes

i was gonna say i'm sure that's not an argentina only thing in fact, it's like infinity stones you get to collect uncles that seem normal until X is mentioned

GoldenX86_64

the great dictator is one of the best movies of all time, and that's as far as this discussion goes

there's also su excelencia, more cold war oriented but same message

im getting old or something because i see that people from uni are getting married, with multiple kids; cousins have kids im only gonna be 27 soon wtf

all my mates are either married or divorced lol

i'm already 25 and i'm already seeing it happen

imagine me at 33

all my college friends having wives and such makes me uncomfortable xd

Younglings everywhere.

calm down, anakin

1

im not kid young but im 100% not old enough to have kids lol

i'm not old enough to be in charge of myself tbh

i'm in east asia where marrying in your early twenties is considered "normal" (edited)

5:15 AM

getting a lot of pressure from my parents to go find a gf and make them some grandkids rn

tell them you're an ace to shut them up

God I just realized my daughter turns 28 this year.

dang, yall oldies

nuh-uh, only like 5% of my hair is gray

OldManKain

God I just realized my daughter turns 28 this year.

this sentence scares me your daughter is older than i am

Tfw OldManKain really is an old man

Egdarska

i'm not old enough to be in charge of myself tbh

i'll never be i didn't sign up for this shit

Petracore

Tfw OldManKain really is an old man

his name didn't lie

exio4

this sentence scares me your daughter is older than i am

this is why it sucks to like older women, you meet their kids and they're in their 20s

Egdarska

this is why it sucks to like older women, you meet their kids and they're in their 20s

you seemed like the type to be into cougars

__fastcall

his name didn't lie

I learned what ur name means the other day (edited)

Petracore

I learned what ur name means the other day (edited)

lets goooo

what special meaning does it have

__fastcall

you seemed like the type to be into cougars

at this point there isn't even that much difference between the women i like and my age, it just hasn't changed since i was in my 20s

1

2

exio4

what special meaning does it have

smthn about passing arguments to functions into registers (i forgot already) (edited)

oh, i thought u meant something else like an actual slang word if its just nerd shit thats obvious, @__fastcall is a nerd (edited)

Petracore

smthn about passing arguments to functions into registers (i forgot already) (edited)

calling convention, get back to studying

1

I thought they were into using -Ofast for everything lol

-O3 and risk it

no its for just a different way to call a function as a potential optimization thing, i just thought there was like, something deeper here like maybe "fast call" meant a quickie in canada or something

lmao

exio4

no its for just a different way to call a function as a potential optimization thing, i just thought there was like, something deeper here like maybe "fast call" meant a quickie in canada or something

it will if you come to canada

eh

pro tip don't ask for a toothy goose in canada

@__fastcall go through puberty first @GoldenX86_64 shit code gonna break smh

but no this is just a name that genius 14 year old me picked truly insane (edited)

14 year old and knowing about call conventions when did u get ur diagnosis

so last month?

exio4

14 year old and knowing about call conventions when did u get ur diagnosis

im getting double teamed with slowmode rn @exio4 never

@Egdarska the last time I fucked ur mom

so you're the one from the voice message, i thought she was being stalked by spongebob

its 2:30 am im tired but not eepy i woke up a few hours back

Time only counts from the moment you wake up, if it was 4 hours ago then it's still midday

i've been insanely time-shifted, it's wild like living on australian time or something (edited)

exio4

i've been insanely time-shifted, it's wild like living on australian time or something (edited)

That's usually a sing of depression btw

Samueru

That's usually a sing of depression btw

do they stack? i've already got that going before

I wanna make a joke but id probably get warned or smthn kek

Samueru

That's usually a sing of depression btw

Got any more revelations for the class?

Egdarska

Got any more revelations for the class?

Also difficulty getting the day started, example: Lie on bed for a while after waking up (edited)

>read paper >2080 Ti listed as supporting BF16 smh

well it does kek

"CPU-i7" you know how little that narrows it down?!

1

why snapdragon gets the model but not intel

Yes i have an i7 and nvidia grafix

Samueru

"CPU-i7" you know how little that narrows it down?!

laptop i7 btw

so a dual core sandy

That barely helps

It's a dell

Also I'm assuming that the battery is the same voltage in the mAH comparison right?

worse, dual core nehalem

its a shit graph

exio4

its a shit graph

I sure hope they didn't compare the mAh in a phone (single cell) vs laptop (3 to 4s)

but its "smaller model is more efficient" which ok good, but also doesn't tell you much and cpu utilization? where do they run it? did the 685 run it on the gpu? does it support 4-bit there even?

That reminds me, i have an old laptop with an amd a4 apu in it that needs fixing, might throw an ssd in it and watch it go

"watch it go" the same as "watches paint dry" (edited)

Egdarska

That reminds me, i have an old laptop with an amd a4 apu in it that needs fixing, might throw an ssd in it and watch it go

Better give it to mango and get some cheap used laptop with a better cpu lol

Lol, the old laptop i kept was basically just for when people came over with kids, so they can watch youtube and shut up

Like that cpu likely cannot even download a file at more than 200mbps

And when they inevitably break it it's not a loss

those a4s were the pinacle of wasted sand

Also, i only bought it off an acquaintance for $30 because i needed the dvd burner for a different device that it fit

i actually wish i could get an acer aspire one d250 again, just for nostalgic reasons (blue btw) (edited)

exio4

i actually wish i could get an acer aspire one d250 again, just for nostalgic reasons (blue btw) (edited)

Get the cheapest chromebook and build the kernel again with gentoo lol

Samueru

Get the cheapest chromebook and build the kernel again with gentoo lol

no, i'd ideally want to mod an M1 air into it tbh

1

exio4

i actually wish i could get an acer aspire one d250 again, just for nostalgic reasons (blue btw) (edited)

wow, that looks acer as fuck

6:09 AM

i don't mind bezels but that thing is a bezel with a screen in the middle

I might get some 30 usd used chromebook to play with it with linux lol

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Acer-Aspire-One-D250-Mininotebook.17823.0.html its my childhood laptop

Review Acer Aspire One D250 Mininotebook

Review of Acer Aspire one D250 Netbook (Intel Atom N270 1.6 GHz / Intel GMA 950) with rich measurements, Benchmarks and assesments

INTEL ATOM!

that reminds me i asked my friend if i could buy her old surface off her and she'll just give it to me, but i feel bad even if it's ewaste

the OG e-core

Awesomeangotti

INTEL ATOM!

Which he undervolted btw

that shit was SO GODDAMN BAD

it's the surface that had milk spilled on it which can be seen through the screen, and it's missing a corner of the glass and you can see the insides, it's a surface from 2013, but i don't know the exact model

@Samueru no need to kinkshame, undervolting is valid

@GoldenX86_64 it was slower than my AMD duron desktop from a decade prior lol (but it was portable tho)

i don't know how it still works, the trackpad is crunchy

the original macbook air too

6:13 AM

at least they were actually affordable

exio4

@Samueru no need to kinkshame, undervolting is valid

@GoldenX86_64 it was slower than my AMD duron desktop from a decade prior lol (but it was portable tho)

Sorry it is that I lost it when you pointed out that the cpu alraedy had a 3W tdp yesterday lol (edited)

exio4

@Samueru no need to kinkshame, undervolting is valid

@GoldenX86_64 it was slower than my AMD duron desktop from a decade prior lol (but it was portable tho)

How much heat can i reduce for the same airflow in my alienware jankbox for undervolting

Samueru

Sorry it is that I lost it when you pointed out that the cpu alraedy had a 3W tdp yesterday lol (edited)

and a 20w chipset

1

alienware

the 950 series northbridge it had hold the memory controller and igpu, used more power than the atom cores

Egdarska

alienware

I live in a world of pain

and that gpu couldn't decode anything besides mpeg

GoldenX86_64

the 950 series northbridge it had hold the memory controller and igpu, used more power than the atom cores

Oh insane, didn't know that

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Acer-Aspire-One-D250-Mininotebook.17823.0.html

It plays even H.264 videos at 853x354 resolution smoothly.

this is such BS, you could play 720p30 if you wanted lol (you just needed to have a hand-tuned version of ffmpeg, and leverage both threads of the single core, while having no desktop environment and a raw window manager) @GoldenX86_64 the og air wasnt an atom tho? @Samueru ikr (edited)

Review Acer Aspire One D250 Mininotebook

Review of Acer Aspire one D250 Netbook (Intel Atom N270 1.6 GHz / Intel GMA 950) with rich measurements, Benchmarks and assesments

the og browsing only laptop with capped specs and performance

6:16 AM

so the proto air, without soldered specs

LIke I'm pretty sure that a low end smartphone from that time could play videos better lol

exio4

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Acer-Aspire-One-D250-Mininotebook.17823.0.html

It plays even H.264 videos at 853x354 resolution smoothly.

this is such BS, you could play 720p30 if you wanted lol (you just needed to have a hand-tuned version of ffmpeg, and leverage both threads of the single core, while having no desktop environment and a raw window manager) @GoldenX86_64 the og air wasnt an atom tho? @Samueru ikr (edited)

linux mfs be like

they did

6:16 AM

at the time you bought atoms with an nvidia igpu to get video decoding

6:17 AM

the geforce 9400 was available in some rare eppic netbooks (edited)

GoldenX86_64

the og browsing only laptop with capped specs and performance

you mean the https://apple-history.com/mb_mid_07 core 2 duo one? im confused rn @Samueru Intel Atom N270 is from 2007 or 2008, i can't remember, just fwiw

Samueru

LIke I'm pretty sure that a low end smartphone from that time could play videos better lol

remember the days of looking for video players with the correct decoder for android? mx player my beloved

1

exio4

you mean the https://apple-history.com/mb_mid_07 core 2 duo one? im confused rn @Samueru Intel Atom N270 is from 2007 or 2008, i can't remember, just fwiw

Oh I was thinking it was from 2012, then nah, the smartphone couldn't at that time.

intel: "let's release a CPU that can only display fixed images just right as the internet is evolving into video content"

Egdarska

remember the days of looking for video players with the correct decoder for android? mx player my beloved

Actually I don't remember, and my first smartphone was a galaxy young btw

h264 hardware decoding was mandatory on android 2 and later iirc

Samueru

Oh I was thinking it was from 2012, then nah, the smartphone couldn't at that time.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/acer-aspire-one-d250-review/

Acer Aspire ONE D250 review: Acer Aspire ONE D250

Acer Aspire ONE D250

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Young Whole 3.27 inches screen!

Samsung Galaxy Young

The Samsung Galaxy Young is a low-end 32-bit Android smartphone by Samsung Electronics which was released in March 2013. Like all other Samsung Galaxy smartphones, the Galaxy Young runs on the Android mobile operating system. The phone features a 3.27 inch TFT LCD touchscreen. The phone has Dual SIM capabilities depending on the model. Many ...

watch it, exio will want one

when dual sim meant half the battery size kek

exio4

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/acer-aspire-one-d250-review/

Not even ddr3 smh

i had one of these shitty things instead of an ipod touch https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-player-4-0-review/

Samsung Galaxy Player 4.0 review: Samsung Galaxy Player 4.0

Samsung Galaxy Player 4.0

had a browser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_(original) does this even have hardware decoders of anything

Samsung Galaxy (original)

The Samsung GT-I7500 Galaxy is a smartphone manufactured by Samsung that uses the open source Android operating system. It was announced on 27 April 2009 and was released on 29 June 2009 as the first Samsung Mobile device to use the Android operating system introduced in the HTC Dream (marketed as the T-Mobile G1), and the first in what would b...

GoldenX86_64

had a browser

it was basically a samsung galaxy phone, minus the phone, it had full access to the store

so a 4 inches tablet

Egdarska

i had one of these shitty things instead of an ipod touch https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-player-4-0-review/

Looks a lot like the galaxy ace:

yeah, it was just an ipod touch for non-apple users. I mostly used it to listen to music

GoldenX86_64

so a 4 inches tablet

4 inches tablet lol

also, the price was shit lol, i only bought it because it was heavily discounted because no one wanted one At the full $230 it was stupid, at $90 it was pretty alright

isnt it funny how computing has advanced to the point we no longer measure if media playback is an issue

exio4

isnt it funny how computing has advanced to the point we no longer measure if media playback is an issue

I still have amd though

1

1

me too

we're talking about non-meme hardware

I feel like from 2008 to 2011 there was an insane boost on cpu speeds, we went from core 2 quads to sandy bridge

intel had a glow up after the disaster that was netburst

btw @exio4 did you know steve from gamersnexus used an fx 8370 as daily driver until like 2021? as a challenge? (edited)

Like everything prior sandy is just ewaste at this point.

Egdarska

btw @exio4 did you know steve from gamersnexus used an fx 8370 as daily driver until like 2021? as a challenge? (edited)

2021? you mean 2023? i thought he just barely used it at home, so it was a “meme challenge”

but still, it's what he used to game most of the time for a while though aside from the heat it probably performed ok until recently (edited)

I forgot the 8370 even existed

don't forget the 9000 series FX

6:32 AM

the first 5ghz CPUs

no, forget it

what was the TDP?

GoldenX86_64

the first 5ghz CPUs

you mean 8GHz :^)

GoldenX86_64

don't forget the 9000 series FX

I know the FX9590 because I know somebody that put it on a cheap ass gigabyte motherboard that didn't support that tdp lol

good old am3, no tdp standard there were literally 65w only boards on sale

250W iirc, like the 14900KS

for 4 cores

Samueru

I know the FX9590 because I know somebody that put it on a cheap ass gigabyte motherboard that didn't support that tdp lol

And as far as I know the motherboard never died lol

GoldenX86_64

for 4 cores

8

the power consumption on the intel cpus is cringe because everybody tests it uncapped, it would be meh otherwise; amd did a cringe next gen too iirc

imagine quad fx with 9590s

Egdarska

imagine quad fx with 9590s

Current intel xeons are not that far off lol

quad fx 9590 with sli gtx 480

2000w

6:37 AM

15 fps in cyberpunk

I only know fermi was an oven, when I got into PCs it was during kepler, I remember the 650 ti boost

dpes cp77 even have an sli profile?

Samueru

I only know fermi was an oven, when I got into PCs it was during kepler, I remember the 650 ti boost

Then a while after nvidia surprised everyone with the 750 TI, first maxwell card, super efficient and only needed the slot power

i don’t think so

does it have a dx11 version?

i'm keeping my 750ti, it's a museum piece

1

Will my 1070 become a museum piece? Response: :0 (edited)

it already is

750 ti was a trooper fr

Like AMD most have realized they were in big trouble when that card dropped.

i also really like the 1050 ti / 1060, fuck off exio

https://youtu.be/4EHmBlzl0qE?si=ot-weJ1nyoKCb2Ko the nvidia app section; i actually would really appreciate they did the decks menus on PC

Digital Foundry

DF Direct Weekly #151: Switch 2 in 2025, PSVR2 Support For PC, PS P...

mid end pascal was the last time we got decent nvidia hardware

nah,the hardware is mostly fine, it's just the price that is shit mostly fine: needs more ram (edited)

Egdarska

i also really like the 1050 ti / 1060, fuck off exio

thats fine lol, i just hate the delusion they arent borderline retro nowadays

what do you mean maxwell v3 is old

6:49 AM

it came out yesterday!

1

I would still be using my 1060 if it wasn't for the 3GB of vram

Should've gotten 6GB 1060 in the first place

goldmastersimulations

Should've gotten 6GB 1060 in the first place

When I bought it 2017 no game used that much vram, it was after the pandemic where vram usage went insane even for indie games lol

Samueru

When I bought it 2017 no game used that much vram, it was after the pandemic where vram usage went insane even for indie games lol

Titanfall 2 was released in 2016 had 8GB streaming budget at max settings. Uses 6-7GB VRAM for me at 1600p max.

Like beamng is uses 7 GB of vram on medium settings, that's a game that has been in development since 2013 iirc lol

i’m thinking of going to the park and play something on my deck

goldmastersimulations

Titanfall 2 was released in 2016 had 8GB streaming budget at max settings. Uses 6-7GB VRAM for me at 1600p max.

It never occurred to me that it would get this to the point that a game would not even work on low settings

i got an 8 gb gpu cuz i wanted vram for ai models, im sad nvidia didnt upsell me to a 16 gb 2080

Like I knew at the time that the 7970 aged better than the 680 due to the extra gig of vram, but at that time the 680 was very much playable on every game, sure maybe not max settings but it was, this shit that happened now is new lol (edited)

Armored Core 6 doesn't need 8GB VRAM for max and looks good lmao What you can do when you actually care about optimization (edited)

AC6 is actually optimized?

exio4

AC6 is actually optimized?

AC6 belongs to ace combat 6 edit: both games even have fires in their name lol (edited)

That is what I heard from other people on the Lenovo Legion server when they tried it at least And yeah, Ace Combat 6 was amazing. Xenia finally integrated the terrain fix too! They should bring its gameplay style back for Ace Combat 8 especially the flight model plus PSM. (edited)

i’m gonna play some cyberpunk in the park, my coping mechanism (edited)

goldmastersimulations

That is what I heard from other people on the Lenovo Legion server when they tried it at least And yeah, Ace Combat 6 was amazing. Xenia finally integrated the terrain fix too! They should bring its gameplay style back for Ace Combat 8 especially the flight model plus PSM. (edited)

Yeah I loved the big battles of AC6

exio4

AC6 is actually optimized?

it's very simple

7:09 AM

basically a 7th gen game with some modern effects, not even modern lighting because it's fromsoft it has RT in the menu tho (edited)

yea thats why i ask if its optimized or just older

Came out in 2023

the game is new, the tech is ancient, again it's a fromsoft game

exio4

thats fine lol, i just hate the delusion they arent borderline retro nowadays

You calling my beloved 1060 retro? >:C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vz5wxVttUQ (Ace of aces difficulty was also good)

CatGoon67

Ace Combat 6: Ace of Aces Mission 2 - Vitoze Aerial Defense (Emulat...

goldmastersimulations

Came out in 2023

from software years, i expect them to quite behind in tech, releasing a very fast windows XP app in 2023 is also new but outdated

Egdarska

the game is new, the tech is ancient, again it's a fromsoft game

Ace combat 7 had something similar, the game is well optimized when it launched, but that is because the engine is ancient (it is the same from ace combat assault horizon like from 2011 lol).

Samueru

Ace combat 7 had something similar, the game is well optimized when it launched, but that is because the engine is ancient (it is the same from ace combat assault horizon like from 2011 lol).

wut, ace combat 7 is ue4

Samueru

Ace combat 7 had something similar, the game is well optimized when it launched, but that is because the engine is ancient (it is the same from ace combat assault horizon like from 2011 lol).

Assault Horizon is in-house. Infinity was the last Ace Combat that's in-house. 7 is UE4.

Egdarska

wut, ace combat 7 is ue4

omg no way, like it uses the same animations and all from AC:AH kek

but yeah, ac7 runs pretty well because there isn't much there aside from the planes, you can extend foliage distance to like 10x and still run almost the same

I really was thinking that it was the same engine lol

Ace Combat 7 managed to look better than War Thunder before 2.0 versions in some ways despite not being that demanding. (edited)

ue4 does most of the work

But nowadays, War Thunder looks better overall since the 2.0 updates

lol they haven't fixed the ace combat 7 pcgw page

xess my beloved

Samueru

I really was thinking that it was the same engine lol

>enabling taa causes menu to shake >r.TemporalAACurrentFrameWeight=0.2 no shit bro, you turned it into a rave

7:19 AM

i've been noticing a lot of stupid shit like this in pcgw lately, usually "fixes" posted on steam forums (edited)

what kind of fixes

people using variables that don't exist in that version of the engine, dumb settings like that one, config edits that don't actually do anything but they never tested them

for those of you here talking about the Legal Thing look at the connectix vs sony legal Battle, Connectix and Bleem Both won their legal battles because of 1 thing, and lets hear it folks, it's called, Having a Monopoly, which is illegal

though devs still ship unity games using the deferred renderer and anti aliasing 2x/4x/8x, so it's not just a user thing

Egdarska

though devs still ship unity games using the deferred renderer and anti aliasing 2x/4x/8x, so it's not just a user thing

what

exio4

what

MSAA doesn't work when using deferred rendering in unity devs just enable the msaa menu and don't even bother to check if it does anything (edited)

oh msaa

Hey guys, I hope this is the right chanel to ask..

sup

I'm eyeing for a notebook with arc 530m gpu, anyone using it here? And how's the compability with yuzu?

aditmb

I'm eyeing for a notebook with arc 530m gpu, anyone using it here? And how's the compability with yuzu?

don't!

2

No good Intel Arc dGPU laptops exist

Oh geez glad I asked first. The budget seems okay here (Indonesia) for 100% srgb low-mid gaming laptop

14th gen Arc iGPU laptops and onwards have massive potential if Intel sorts out their iGPU driver game.

1

And the low end amd laptops are not good either since those will likely be using vega graphics, and unless you are willing to use linux then don't either

1

so, the real solution, cry in a corner until the market fixes itself (hopefully) upsidedown_cry

(edited)

1

goldmastersimulations

14th gen Arc iGPU laptops and onwards have massive potential if Intel sorts out their iGPU driver game.

2024 Lenovo Yoga Slim/Pro 9i with 14th gen is almost as quiet as MacBook Pro under load now

8:20 AM

Core Ultra HX in 15th gen laptops is gonna be very interesting (edited)

exio4

so, the real solution, cry in a corner until the market fixes itself (hopefully) upsidedown_cry

(edited)

either the market, the GPUs themselves, or preferably both

https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-reveal-first-ar-glasses-fall-connect-conference-2024-2 >try to check article >big popup covers the whole thing i love it

Meta is aiming to reveal and demo Orion, its first true AR glasses,...

Meta's first "true" AR glasses, codenamed Orion, have been in the works for several years.

amazing

1

Samueru

amazing

what the heck lol

exio4

what the heck lol

Yeah that's the kind of people where "just use linux" is indeed the right thing to say lol

kek

9:13 AM

3

1

there's always angry comments when reviewers benchmark cyberpunk 2077 and say "amd is bad because nvidia, nobody plays that game" but it has like 30k peak players every day on steam charts starfield is like 7k [on steam], spiderman like 3k lol

DeAthWisH00123

yeah thats some bullshit, just use 2 pci cables and daisy chain the 3rd connecter, also never ever EVER use power supply cables that didnt come with your power supply even within the same brand, if you do this you WILL destroy every component in your computer

Thanks, I’ll give a try at the daisy chain. Now I’m worried to add an extra cable even if it’s sent to me by the costumer care. Or maybe I could get a different psu from Amz and send back this one.

Samueru

amazing

The entitlement of some people is astonishing

When I'm Playing games on the emulator my games are lagging an stuttering anyone have the settings I should use to keep a stable fps in my games

That mostly depends on your hardware and Yuzu is very CPU dependent. You can drop a log or spell out your specs

deadlybydsgn

That mostly depends on your hardware and Yuzu is very CPU dependent. You can drop a log or spell out your specs

Yes but the CPU you need is like, a Ryzen 3600 or better. Maybe a 3500X would work too? I don't think Yuzu needs more than 6 threads. So right now, the floor is really low for suitable hardware. (edited)

It doesn't and you're right, but people come in here all the time with really weak laptop CPUs. So, I usually ask. I played through 95% of Yuzu with an i7-6800K and it was honestly great. It was over 30fps the majority of the time and got a lot closer to 60 in the lighter areas. Some shrines were 60, some sparse outdoor areas were 45/50 (edited)

I'm on a 2600X and honestly TotK is more than playable

1

Also depends on res and your GPU. I'd imagine I'm GPU-limited at 4K60 in TOTK? Wait no I'd be CPU limited. I have a 3950X and RTX 4070. (edited)

VRAM more so I think

My 8GB 2080 can do 4K60 fine (paired with the 7800X3D). That's a card from 2018. It is technically not an absolute "100% 60fps" with that CPU, but it's to such a nitpicky degree that I don't think anyone outside of extreme pixel peepers will notice (edited)

deadlybydsgn

My 8GB 2080 can do 4K60 fine (paired with the 7800X3D). That's a card from 2018. It is technically not an absolute "100% 60fps" with that CPU, but it's to such a nitpicky degree that I don't think anyone outside of extreme pixel peepers will notice (edited)

With RTX On? PeepoNvidia

1

A fully loaded Lookout Landing briefly blips down to like 57 or 58 while loading shaders and then sits at a solid 60fps while you spin around. While I can appreciate the hardware chase, if that's not good enough, I don't know that we're enjoying games anymore (edited)

squanchy 🥗

Also depends on res and your GPU. I'd imagine I'm GPU-limited at 4K60 in TOTK? Wait no I'd be CPU limited. I have a 3950X and RTX 4070. (edited)

rx580 8gb start to struggle with 3x gtx1650 start to struggle with 2x

My 6GB 1060 on an older machine seems to struggle with it (even with compression on), but I haven't done more than load up the opening cave area (edited)

In a very real way, chasing down extra performance on older hardware was part of the "game" for me in Yuzu. Now that I have the new CPU, it kind of feels like I "beat" it... (edited)

True, making anything works on my 2600k was really part of the fun

When you realize the performance game is literally P2W uncomfortable

1

Levlight

rx580 8gb start to struggle with 3x gtx1650 start to struggle with 2x

In other words, AMD is the best. PeepoAMD

squanchy 🥗

In other words, AMD is the best. PeepoAMD

currently not using my rx580 bc I have no use for it mainly just doing computing stuff with my GPU and my gtx1650 does a better job at that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (edited)

rx580 likely wins out of vram (for totk) not actual performance lol (edited)

maybe but there is no 8gb gtx1650 so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

yea i know, i just mean it because usually that's how amd gets any wins, nvidia gpus run out of vram, amd gpus have software bugs / etc

I'll take my leave before you start doing Propaganda for some mafia companys again

1

hello can i ask a question about modding a switch oled? i don't know if it's against the rules

4:26 PM

are there other switch oled chips available besides a modded chip ?

exio4

yea i know, i just mean it because usually that's how amd gets any wins, nvidia gpus run out of vram, amd gpus have software bugs / etc

Forgot the hardware bugs

Egdarska

Forgot the hardware bugs

i don't wanna be called a hater

Luca

are there other switch oled chips available besides a modded chip ?

Nice try, Mr Nintendo.

Sorry it was a wrong question

5:09 PM

I have a relative in Romania who bought a second-hand Switch OLED, and it had parental controls enabled. As far as I know, you can't access parental controls without the parental code. So, they sent it to me to see what I can do. My parents spoke to someone who suggested that they could remove the Nintendo account if they changed some 'chip' (I'm not sure if this is accurate, as my parents just relayed this information to me). So, does Nintendo sell official replacement parts, or does moddifying the chip or adding a modded chip erase the existing data?

Luca

I have a relative in Romania who bought a second-hand Switch OLED, and it had parental controls enabled. As far as I know, you can't access parental controls without the parental code. So, they sent it to me to see what I can do. My parents spoke to someone who suggested that they could remove the Nintendo account if they changed some 'chip' (I'm not sure if this is accurate, as my parents just relayed this information to me). So, does Nintendo sell official replacement parts, or does moddifying the chip or adding a modded chip erase the existing data?

i mean you could just do a factory reset, assuming this also does not require parental controls to access. Go to Settings, then System, and scroll all the way down until you find "Formatting Options" (in your system's languages of course). Scroll down from there and press the big warning symbol'd "Initialise Console".

It does require the parental code

it would be quite stupid to allow factory reset without parental code

exio4

i don't wanna be called a hater

They hated Him because He told the truth

GoldenSun3DS

Click to see attachment 🖼️

I got the refund on the 8GB 4060 Ti (that was listed on eBay as 16GB) and I've now ordered my second RTX 4060 Ti 16GB, from Amazon this time. Arriving tomorrow. I won't be buying on eBay again for GPU like this. I know that the previous GPU was at least functional in the PCIE Gen 3 X1 to X16 adaptor, so now I'll find out how much if any performance is lost from PCIE Gen 3 X1 bandwidth. Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 128GB DDR4 2800MHz CL16 RAM, dual RTX 4060 Ti 16GB. This is for running AI LLMs locally.

You could totally game on that man

Definitely not gaming across both GPUs if a game even supports it because of the PCIE bandwidth of X1

Oh

GoldenSun3DS

I got the refund on the 8GB 4060 Ti (that was listed on eBay as 16GB) and I've now ordered my second RTX 4060 Ti 16GB, from Amazon this time. Arriving tomorrow. I won't be buying on eBay again for GPU like this. I know that the previous GPU was at least functional in the PCIE Gen 3 X1 to X16 adaptor, so now I'll find out how much if any performance is lost from PCIE Gen 3 X1 bandwidth. Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 128GB DDR4 2800MHz CL16 RAM, dual RTX 4060 Ti 16GB. This is for running AI LLMs locally.

Maybe they put 8GB of GDDR6 chips in the box?

7:41 PM

Also why 2800 CL16? Sadge

squanchy 🥗

Also why 2800 CL16? Sadge

It's 3000MHz RAM, but it was unstable at the speed. I increased RAM voltage from 1.35V to 1.45V and decreased RAM speed.

1

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Mesa-NVK-Vulkan-Conformant

Mesa NVK Vulkan Driver Now Declared Vulkan 1.3 Conformant, Mesa 24....

It's a big day today in the open-source NVIDIA Nouveau/NVK space..

Meanwhile powervr, vivante, etc

10:31 PM

https://www.phoronix.com/news/HDMI-2.1-OSS-Rejected

HDMI Forum Rejects Open-Source HDMI 2.1 Driver Support Sought By AMD

One of the limitations of AMD's open-source Linux graphics driver has been the inability to implement HDMI 2.1+ functionality on the basis of legal requirements by the HDMI Forum

1

stinky

Only displayport exist from now on

https://youtu.be/ujN7d-1REoU kek (edited)

Brodie Robertson

Rust Lang ENDORSED By The US Government!?!

cool, more reason for me to not use rust!

2

Bro doesn't know about aes encryption

meanwhile, 8gb vram users

1

GoldenX86_64

meanwhile, 8gb vram users

Perhaps…

Luca

I have a relative in Romania who bought a second-hand Switch OLED, and it had parental controls enabled. As far as I know, you can't access parental controls without the parental code. So, they sent it to me to see what I can do. My parents spoke to someone who suggested that they could remove the Nintendo account if they changed some 'chip' (I'm not sure if this is accurate, as my parents just relayed this information to me). So, does Nintendo sell official replacement parts, or does moddifying the chip or adding a modded chip erase the existing data?

I’m pretty sure the person your parents talked to probably puts in a modchip and charges a lot of money for no reason

GoldenX86_64

meanwhile, 8gb vram users

For AI (LLMs), it's even worse. Even 16GB VRAM seems to be not great. The minimum to get started that's recommended in LLM Discord servers is a used RTX 3090 with 24GB VRAM.

thanks to the ai bubble, gaming cards are trash

Is it a bubble? I suspect in a year or 2 that we'll have dedicated AI accelerator hardware. There's already a thing called Groq that runs LLMs extremely fast, but its VRAM capacity is measured in hundreds of Megabytes (and costs like $10K or $20K each) and you need thousands of them to run a single large model, so it's more targeted at companies like ~~ClosedAI~~ OpenAI. https://youtu.be/pRUddK6sxDg?si=4ZlqGI00pQd2FZhq (edited)

Groq

Groq's AI Chip Breaks Speed Records

grok is the name of x's chatgpt wdym

GoldenSun3DS

Is it a bubble? I suspect in a year or 2 that we'll have dedicated AI accelerator hardware. There's already a thing called Groq that runs LLMs extremely fast, but its VRAM capacity is measured in hundreds of Megabytes (and costs like $10K or $20K each) and you need thousands of them to run a single large model, so it's more targeted at companies like ~~ClosedAI~~ OpenAI. https://youtu.be/pRUddK6sxDg?si=4ZlqGI00pQd2FZhq (edited)

That's pretty much the only thing making me wonder if my 7800X3D is going to age poorly (like my last AMD CPU... the X2 4400)

For LLMs, GPU VRAM matters way more than CPU. So supposing we get games that require LLMs for NPC chats, you'll be bottlenecked by GPU performance, not CPU performance.

Not if I buy an Nvidia AIX 6800 kek

(edited)

bruh a cpu from 2006 , how long you want it to live with you + 7800x3d probable will be fine atleast for gaming

GoldenX86_64

Click to see attachment 🖼️

PS/2 be like

1

I should get a ps2 keyboard, mine has limitations like mod+shift+a is not registered, same for mod+shift+period, my "new" motherboard actually came with a PS/2 interface.

Get with the times, man. It's all about the PS5 keyboards now.

lol

PS6 keyboards soon

4:22 AM

with haptic crashing, they vibrate the entire desktop when the kernel panics

__fastcall

grok is the name of x's chatgpt wdym

elon stole them from other corpos lol

Samueru

PS/2 be like

this is how it used to be, on modern systems it's all polling anyway (to reach the CPU)

exio4

this is how it used to be, on modern systems it's all polling anyway (to reach the CPU)

What you mean modern PS/2 doesnt work like it used to?

Samueru

What you mean modern PS/2 doesnt work like it used to?

on AMD & Intel CPUs - you basically a a super i/o controller that receives the interrupt and then the communication with the main chip is through polling

if it goes over USB... kek

exio4

on AMD & Intel CPUs - you basically a a super i/o controller that receives the interrupt and then the communication with the main chip is through polling

Oh so it means you could still lose the keyboard from working on new PCs even if you use PS/2?

Samueru

Oh so it means you could still lose the keyboard from working on new PCs even if you use PS/2?

usually they try to emulate old behavior iirc? this is how it works natively, but if you're on the 16-bit modes of CPUs you're basically in firmware land iirc (i'm dumb, don't quote me on this - i just remember learning this when i was checking how tf PS2 worked in the 2020s) (edited)

I was under the impression that modern PS/2 ports still work like they used to, and iirc they are still used by overclockers because usb keyboards can give up on unstable systems.

4:53 AM

Like the kernel in linux has a mode that if you press certain key combinations, they PC will always reboot even if it completely locked up, but to guarantee that it will work it has to be over a PS/2 keyboard though.

that's also related to USB is more finicky and complex of a protocol, PS/2 is more resilient out of being literal 80s technology over a modern bus - i assume meow i think the cpu technically still emulates the old functionality in lots of cases but it is no longer just interrupt based and the cpu stops right from the keyboard's input you have queues and a whole bunch of communication between chips to get to that point [kinda like if you ran 64-bit Windows DX12 games through XWayland on Apple Silicon, metaphorically speaking] (edited)

Well only one way to find out I guess lol

Samueru

Click to see attachment 🖼️

lol @ "not hot swappable"

like a real chad

5:15 AM

no keyboard found, press f1 to continue

My older hp motherboard had something interesting, if there was indeed no keyboard plugged in it would auto skip the f1 prompt

5:17 AM

That's how I knew my usb devices crashed on boot lol

5:18 AM

The FM2+ motherboard also had a feature to turn on the PC with the keyboard, but it only worked for PS/2.

i miss that from my old am4 mobo

5:19 AM

turn on/wake up with ctrl + space was glorious

1

Samueru

Click to see attachment 🖼️

On leenoks it's hot swap. But then again, I can hot swap my ssd, and my graphics card

6:03 AM

Don't ask how I learned the last part, I was learning

Mine has hot swappable sata but I'm not sure if the pcie is hot swappable

Everything is hotswappable when it catches on fire

6:12 AM

https://youtu.be/kKj5zgMAo_M?feature=shared

mryeester

What happens if you remove PC components from a running computer?

Samueru

Mine has hot swappable sata but I'm not sure if the pcie is hot swappable

sata is designed to be hot swappable

exio4

sata is designed to be hot swappable

You sure? I even had to enable the hot swap in the bios for it to work.

that’s just your bios being cringe, but yea it is not a “hack”, its how eSATA basically worked

eSATA should be more common there i said it

exio4

that’s just your bios being cringe, but yea it is not a “hack”, its how eSATA basically worked

And my older pc did not have hot swap at all, there was no setting in bios either.

LukeTheVideoGamer

eSATA should be more common there i said it

we have thunderbolt now, hot swappable nvme

Samueru

And my older pc did not have hot swap at all, there was no setting in bios either.

wild, i guess they made this optional then? i remember the spec explicitly caring about it but i haven’t read it in years

exio4

we have thunderbolt now, hot swappable nvme

unfortunately, thunderbolt is not particularly well supported across all platforms. there is USB4 but some people REALLY love to cheap out on the optional parts of the spec, including the actual 40Gbps bandwidth and PCIe tunneling

6:36 AM

but eSATA? it's just there, it's single-purpose, is designed with one specification and design in mind, and should "just work"

The biggest issue with esata now is the speed

or the protocol, its barely better than usb in overhead

When I migrated from a sata ssd to nvme ssd I was surprised my boot speed went from 9 seconds to 3

i can't upgrade from SATA to NVMe (system too old to support it)

My system is those X99 combos, I think nvme was already a thing for haswell/broadwell, but for the similar X79 combos the chinese manufacturers put nvme support in lol

6:44 AM

So wild to see a system with a sandy bridge cpu using nvme and resizable bar.

Samueru

My system is those X99 combos, I think nvme was already a thing for haswell/broadwell, but for the similar X79 combos the chinese manufacturers put nvme support in lol

i wanna get one of those weirdo X99 combo deals off of ali, if only because they're a far cheaper upgrade alternative to my preferred path of AM4 or AM5 maybe if i get lucky for my 20th bday. :p

I got one with a 2640V4 + 16GB Mem + Motherboard for 70 usd, it has been great. iirc a similar combo is now 60 usd instead.

damn, a whole ass CPU-mobo-memory combo for the price of Baldur's Gate 3 available now where games are bought

The cpu cooler is actually a 1366 cooler from an even older pc I had, I was surprised it was compatible, the only difference is that it uses nuts instead of bolds on the cooler side

Samueru

When I migrated from a sata ssd to nvme ssd I was surprised my boot speed went from 9 seconds to 3

satas protocol is not fit for nvme

exio4

satas protocol is not fit for nvme

wdym

Samueru

wdym

ssds are more parallel than sata allows for, being a hard drive first protocol, iirc it doesn’t even do hmb

I mean the difference in boot speed is because the nvme is over 3 times faster at read speed than the sata. The sata ssd did something like 520 MB/s which is the limit of sata 3. The nvme reads over 3000 MB/s instead.

random reads though

Don't remember on the sata ssd

i think i crystaldiskmark'd my SSD (it's SATA, if prior context clues didn't help) and i think the randoms were like pisspoor like barely breaking 1MB reads and writes if i was lucky

F, that’s really bad

LukeTheVideoGamer

i think i crystaldiskmark'd my SSD (it's SATA, if prior context clues didn't help) and i think the randoms were like pisspoor like barely breaking 1MB reads and writes if i was lucky

Can your FX CPU even do 1 Gbps over ethernet?

7:09 AM

I had a FM2+ cpu that could not do that lol, the cpu went to 100% and the downloads reach like 500 mbps peak

uhhhh.... i think barely, but definitely not over something like Steam. i don't really have the means to test that though because my internet is not gigabit. i could try local network tests too i guess? since i do have multiple gigabit devices, and a switch, i just don't have enough cables

Yeah a local transfer is enough to test that. Steam doesn't give me gigabit speeds either, even github usually downloads files faster than steam lol

exio4

F, that’s really bad

in fairness, it was a free Micro Center SSD

Samueru

I had a FM2+ cpu that could not do that lol, the cpu went to 100% and the downloads reach like 500 mbps peak

? 1 Gbps..? where? Steam has somewhat heavy compression, it isn't just data transfers (edited)

exio4

? 1 Gbps..? where? Steam has somewhat heavy compression, it isn't just data transfers (edited)

When doing the speed test, I was not able to max out the gigabit port on the FM2 pc

7:17 AM

Another PC with an I5 2400 had no trouble doing that btw. I feel like AMD owes me something for having bought that crap lol

there's no way, my FX 6100 could plenty over lol

exio4

there's no way, my FX 6100 could plenty over lol

Like if you want tomorrow I will hook up that PC and show you lol

sure you sure it wasn't a browser/javascript bottleneck? (edited)

I'm very sure it wasn't, but I did not test the download speed on linux, that's the only thing I didn't check. That same ssd was taken from that FM2 pc and put on the old sandy bridge pc with the 2400, instant gigabit without issues.

exio4

sure you sure it wasn't a browser/javascript bottleneck? (edited)

And the CPU instantly went to 100% btw

I mean, you realize that gigabit routers running linux have had MIPS processors running at a few hundred MHz, right?

I think the bottleneck was the cpu writting to the ssd though, no idea, but it was something that was easily reproducible

did you use zfs/btrfs? lol

It was on windows 10 lol, I told this story before. I first bought the A7800 that I used as my main PC, it stucked badly so a bought a used sandy bridge combo and gave that pc to my father. My father didn't like it either (and I even showed him the cpu struggling on the speedtest.net test lol) so I had to buy another combo for him lol.

oh yeah on windows 10 yeah i'm actually shocked you got 500 MB/s, NTFS is also insanely demanding (edited)

7:27 AM

I used linux on my FX 6100 and I ran VMs with a funny network stack across them and did >1Gbps [across the VMs] just fine (edited)

Yeah I will test it again, an yes NTFS is horrible (and on linux even more), but I don't know how to test the speedtest.net website on windows but downloading to the memory instead of the ssd, that way I could determine where the bottleneck is, on linux it is as simple as having the browser cache on tmpfs.

ntfs is so shit dude, i actually am shocked its still a thing my fucking 5800x is a bottleneck at times

exio4

ntfs is so shit dude, i actually am shocked its still a thing my fucking 5800x is a bottleneck at times

Yeah the other day you said that xorg is ancient on linux and I was like, should I tell you that windows uses ntfs still lol.

granted, it's on an "good quality" x4 Gen3 NVMe, but still, a 5800X???? it was the fastest eight core CPU at the time I got it, how much more CPU power do you need goddamn lmao you can't even argue about scheduling issues because it's got a single CCX and normal cache setup (edited)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x9-3OQF4ev1fOCrYuYWt1QmxYRmPilw_nLik5H_2_qA/edit#gid=0 Look at the speed for NTFS lmao (edited)

BTRFS ZSTD level compression benchmark

Sheet1 Target,Time (s),Rate (MiB/s),Compressed (B),Ratio,Seconds/Reduction,file,https://archive.archlinux.org/packages/c/cuda/cuda-10.1.168-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz (unxz'd, in tmpfs) zstd:15,95,58,3118391296,0.5363,204.857,sha256sum,f130979294714599ad5c8710f6c08ad88e163cca277d3ca3eec37c0ede248aa8 zs...

7:32 AM

NTFS 2 with Windows 12

Iirc macos lets you use ZFS, which is great.

wait how and why does ntfs suck? (edited)

Petracore

wait how and why does ntfs suck? (edited)

It is ancient

I thought all file systems were ancient? There's new ones?

Petracore

I thought all file systems were ancient? There's new ones?

Yes, and there's even newer ones like bcachefs, it recently got in the linux kernel btw

Does windows support any of the newer ones?

Although I can't really tell you why NTFS is much worse than EXT4, those two don't have the modern features that ZFS, Btrfs and bcachefs have. WIndows said like 5 years ago that they will suppot ext4 and I don't know what has happened since then.

NTFS does a lot of enterprise shit and is designed in a whole ass different era

I never even knew that new file systems existed lol. but windows doesn't support any of them so oh well (edited)

Samueru

I should get a ps2 keyboard, mine has limitations like mod+shift+a is not registered, same for mod+shift+period, my "new" motherboard actually came with a PS/2 interface.

the nicer keyboards are way, way better for stuff like that...

do u guys wanna guess my ping on fast.com

exio4

do u guys wanna guess my ping on fast.com

645ms

what is fast dot com

i wish @Samueru, i wish, and i've got an interview in a few hours, i'm so fucked rn - gonna check how my backup phone vibes

Petracore

I never even knew that new file systems existed lol. but windows doesn't support any of them so oh well (edited)

And there are some very cool features, like snapshots. Filesystem snapshots instead of making a whole copy of all the system files, they instead save the diff between the files, meaning that you only have a few MB difference between snapshots. You could literary have a snapshot from the day you installed the OS, rolled back to it after using the OS for many years as if nothing happened. And you can even roll back to before you rolled back the old snapshot, that is you can go to different points on time in your filesystem, this is used in the enterprise zone with ZFS. I do it with Btrfs on linux. Another features are the transparent compression (it saves about 30% of disk space without any real impact). (edited)

exio4

i wish @Samueru, i wish, and i've got an interview in a few hours, i'm so fucked rn - gonna check how my backup phone vibes

(The upload should be gigabit as well, that's odd). (edited)

nice

Also this test: https://www.meter.net/tools/world-ping-test/

World Ping Test - global ping test

still running

exio4

still running

Do you have fiber?

Samueru

Do you have fiber?

lol no

1

What a shame, here everything went fiber after the pandemic.

Samueru

And there are some very cool features, like snapshots. Filesystem snapshots instead of making a whole copy of all the system files, they instead save the diff between the files, meaning that you only have a few MB difference between snapshots. You could literary have a snapshot from the day you installed the OS, rolled back to it after using the OS for many years as if nothing happened. And you can even roll back to before you rolled back the old snapshot, that is you can go to different points on time in your filesystem, this is used in the enterprise zone with ZFS. I do it with Btrfs on linux. Another features are the transparent compression (it saves about 30% of disk space without any real impact). (edited)

that sounds pretty sweet

Petracore

that sounds pretty sweet

Yeah before we used to have internet that was slower than the one of cuba, it was an insane 180 that happened here

i mean, it won't get better here anytime soon

oh nah i was talking about the filesystems, that switch seems to be sweet too tho (edited)

Oh nvm lol

@Samueru i'm using a cheap local co-op that resells the government fiber backbone, but it kinda got stuck there the internet is running extra bad though, usually I had 200-300 ms to my friend in Italy, and <100ms to people here in Deep Rock Galactic, that's straight up gaming lol (edited)

cant even connect to manchester, smh

exio4

i mean, it won't get better here anytime soon

and it was mostly on this city, not the rest of the country. Some weird receipt that we live near the border with colombia, there's a lot of usd on the blackmarket and that caused a bunch of small fiber companies from colombia to go into a price war. So yeah for this to happened we had to dollarize, hopefully that also works out in argentina.

exio4

@Samueru i'm using a cheap local co-op that resells the government fiber backbone, but it kinda got stuck there the internet is running extra bad though, usually I had 200-300 ms to my friend in Italy, and <100ms to people here in Deep Rock Galactic, that's straight up gaming lol (edited)

315ms to buenos aires wtf, I get 161ms to buenos aires from here lmao.

Samueru

and it was mostly on this city, not the rest of the country. Some weird receipt that we live near the border with colombia, there's a lot of usd on the blackmarket and that caused a bunch of small fiber companies from colombia to go into a price war. So yeah for this to happened we had to dollarize, hopefully that also works out in argentina.

lol, i don't think you get it, if you dollarize nobody would be left to afford the fiber because that requires deindustrialization, Argentina's labor is basically all on things which aren't internationally competitive without even further wage cuts for that to happen we'd also need to strip all taxes back down to venezuelan levels (aka completely defund leading-in-latin-america healthcare, etc) (edited)

exio4

lol, i don't think you get it, if you dollarize nobody would be left to afford the fiber because that requires deindustrialization, Argentina's labor is basically all on things which aren't internationally competitive without even further wage cuts for that to happen we'd also need to strip all taxes back down to venezuelan levels (aka completely defund leading-in-latin-america healthcare, etc) (edited)

We also don't have industries here, only oil exports and those are nonexistent basically, I pay 25 usd a month for the gigabit internet, that is expensive here but alternative is the ADSL internet that doesn't work from the goverment company which is about 10 usd per month.

Samueru

We also don't have industries here, only oil exports and those are nonexistent basically, I pay 25 usd a month for the gigabit internet, that is expensive here but alternative is the ADSL internet that doesn't work from the goverment company which is about 10 usd per month.

i'm living in a small town, big cities have fiber already, you can get 500 symmetric for not too much money like 40 km from where I live, but privatization of the main fiber backbone (currently owned by the government) would instantly fuck up the service here lol i really need to explain the situation in argentina won't be solved with more "liberalism" because that's literally what has done the damage of the last 50 years or so (edited)

exio4

i'm living in a small town, big cities have fiber already, you can get 500 symmetric for not too much money like 40 km from where I live, but privatization of the main fiber backbone (currently owned by the government) would instantly fuck up the service here lol i really need to explain the situation in argentina won't be solved with more "liberalism" because that's literally what has done the damage of the last 50 years or so (edited)

We haven't privatized all fiber here though, each company has its own fiber, but iirc most of the backdoor is owned by movistar already.

"each company has its own fiber because the government never owned it" is the default state, yeah

exio4

"each company has its own fiber because the government never owned it" is the default state, yeah

The goverment does own some fiber, but anyway here what fixed was the dollarization.

venezuela did it because you had nothing left, it's a different situation argentina's economy would have to shrink a further 50-70% for dollarization right now, and the government debt would need higher taxes

exio4

venezuela did it because you had nothing left, it's a different situation argentina's economy would have to shrink a further 50-70% for dollarization right now, and the government debt would need higher taxes

This is a good article from when it began to happen btw: https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2021/02/04/venezuelas-internet-resurrection-begins-in-maracaibo/

Arnaldo Espinoza

Venezuela’s Internet Resurrection Begins in Maracaibo | Caracas Chr...

Zulia state’s capital went from practically disconnected by blackouts and energy rationing to the crown jewel of Venezuela’s internet

that's cool, but i'd prefer if the we don't dollarize and the cancer clinic in the next city doesn't close and my dad can afford his medication on a pension, y'know?

exio4

that's cool, but i'd prefer if the we don't dollarize and the cancer clinic in the next city doesn't close and my dad can afford his medication on a pension, y'know?

Do you really think things will get better by keeping the peso with all the weird exchange rates around?

Argentina was already de-facto dollarized in the 90s, to tackle hyperinflation, we already tried it, in a better situation

iirc ecuador was the country from latin america which salaries were hit the least by the pandemic due to them using the usd.

Samueru

Do you really think things will get better by keeping the peso with all the weird exchange rates around?

no, we need a currency reform, but asking for a dollarization is the equivalent of saying that because you hit your knee you have to take a cyanide pill to cure it

8:23 AM

the government surplus and austerity programs already shrunk the economy by 25-30% in less than 3 months, poverty rates went up by 10-20% depending on how you measure it, we weren't doing well before, by any means, but we had a lot of social safety networks that kept things going dollarization is only viable if you completely destroy the federal government, the only way to finance is to liquidate the government funds (for pensions, healthcare, education, energy, etc) + privatizations to cover for debt, and "restart the economy"... which we tried in the 90s, we privatized almost all of our infrastructure, in the 90s, which led to 2001 when there was a debt shock that made dollars insanely worthy, and because argentine labor didn't magically get more competitive, layoffs happened, and the economy contracted, eventually spiraling out of control - into the worst recession Argentina ever saw (edited)

8:29 AM

dollarization only makes sense if you're living in something like venezuela where the government has already collapsed, where wages fell down to literal cents a day, and the government ran out of ways to finance basic services, to the point that you need to tie yourself and completely lose control of your currency to get access to any funds the key there is: Argentina was never past the point of no return, Argentina was doing poorly, the economy was not doing well, the exchange rates fucked with the market hard, but food security? it was surprisingly high, even for latam standards, pensions? they were shit in nominal terms - but healthcare access was surprisingly decent too, education? our unis weren't breaking records, but the line was going up for access, etc (until 2015-2016, specifically, and from 2021 and after)

8:32 AM

Argentina exported 68 billions USD in 2021, Venezuela is only like 60% of the population but it gives you context of how "much" shit had collapsed, in 2021, the economy grew in 2022 and 2023 had a record drought because climate change normalizing per capita Argentina still exported >12x of Venezuela

Well exio, I don't really see a way out of the current situation in argentina, here we didn't actually dollarize de jure, it is just something that happened the facto because we slowly went thru the same mess that argentina is going right now. Like every single thing, the weird exchange rates, then the black dollar (dollar blue in argentina), then inflation, etc, this ended with everyone just saving their money in usd. Then the big blackout happened in 2019, for 5 days nothing worked, and suddenly people remembered hey I have some usd saved might as well use them to try to buy some stuff from the market, and from there everyone kept using usd until now haha.

Samueru

Well exio, I don't really see a way out of the current situation in argentina, here we didn't actually dollarize de jure, it is just something that happened the facto because we slowly went thru the same mess that argentina is going right now. Like every single thing, the weird exchange rates, then the black dollar (dollar blue in argentina), then inflation, etc, this ended with everyone just saving their money in usd. Then the big blackout happened in 2019, for 5 days nothing worked, and suddenly people remembered hey I have some usd saved might as well use them to try to buy some stuff from the market, and from there everyone kept using usd until now haha.

yeah, I know, I have talked with friends from Venezuela for years, I just mention it because we haven't had that kind of shit happen, and Argentina was doing the funny things for years, it isn't ideal - but the government did these because government debt has to be paid somehow, and the alternative is furthering entering into default, and completely destroying the federal government Venezuelan bolivares haven't been useful as currency for like 12 years by now, that's different

8:37 AM

the idea that "dollarization can be an improvement" is very suicidal on an economic that relies on its own domestic market as much as Argentina, it's a difference of economy - Venezuela could do it because you have nothing but oil (and nothing was left), you literally have as much industry as argentina did like 90 years ago, with a smaller population last time I checked (edited)

Omg I just remembered you also recently had a gasoline shortage right? It was exactly the same here.

no, we didn't lol

1

8:41 AM

it wasn't a gasoline shortage, it was the oil companies lowering oil production because they knew the government change would lead to a change in the tax structure & double profits the moment the government said ok, fuck you, have the profits now, they over-shipped and the numbers went back to normal for everything after the "slow down and dump" (edited)

8:43 AM

we have YPF (the state oil company, that was privatized in the 90s to fund the dollarization, that they nationalized in the 2010s), it does most of the refinery work in the country - but their own production is not enough to cover the whole country, so they buy from other oil corporations to refine and sell as fuel the other corporations basically met minimum contracts, explicitly to "negotiate" this combined with the fact that it was publicly known that prices would go up so everybody went to gas up just before it goes up in price, it's Just In Time economics not reacting well to abrupt changes in the economical environment, the same way that toilet paper shortages weren't actually because people were taking louder shits, just because it happened too quickly (edited)

8:46 AM

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/jit.asp

Just-in-Time (JIT): Definition, Example, and Pros & Cons

A just-in-time (JIT) inventory system is a management strategy that aligns raw-material orders from suppliers directly with production schedules.

8:47 AM

the shortages in Venezuela (that I read about for years) are usually supply related, not demand related

Oh, yeah I was remembering something about an imminent price change, here we don't have private gas companies, it was just lack of gasoline until they put the prices in usd. Gasoline used to be free since the 1940s, now it is 0.5 usd the liter. Electricity is also still free, but you see that I need to have my own off grid solution to be able to work lol, eventually once they start charing for the kWh the blackouts will also likely disappear. (edited)

energy was not really free here, and the subsidies were heavily tiered, the government just "practically" made the first kWh enough to cover a fridge, lightbulbs and a tv extremely affordable, and then it went up to normal international pricing (edited)

I think we actually have one of the highest energy usage per capita of all latin america because of the free electricity, like it is normal to see people running the AC with their door open lol.

yeah, that isn't really a thing here, and another reason why the same "fixes" won't help here, but make things worse, energy prices are already going up to european levels lol

And our industry may have collapse, but we don't put homes on a single 25A mcb like argentina has always done kek

that's just lack of regulation; there's no need to do anything different so the cheapest thing is done - it's exactly why you need a currency, to say you know what fuckers? here, do it right now, we'll cover the difference lol (edited)

Samueru

And our industry may have collapse, but we don't put homes on a single 25A mcb like argentina has always done kek

i don't think we're doing well, we're doing like shit, i just hate the idea of dollarization as a silver bullet because it has too high of a cost to fix the economy

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directx-innovation-on-display-at-gdc-2024/

Joshua Tucker

DirectX Innovation on Display at GDC 2024 - DirectX Developer Blog

The excitement is building as we finish our preparations for this year’s Game Developers Conference, set to kick off on March 18th. Industry leaders, developers, and enthusiasts will converge on San Francisco for a week of innovation, and the DirectX team here at Microsoft has a lot of exciting news to share.

https://9to5linux.com/mesas-nvk-open-source-vulkan-driver-for-nvidia-hardware-is-now-stable/amp

Mesa's NVK Open-Source Vulkan Driver for NVIDIA Hardware Is Now Sta...

The NVK open-source Vulkan graphics driver for NVIDIA hardware in the Mesa graphics stack is no longer experimental and it's now stable.

@Mango9999 what do you think about this nintendo vs yuzu case, i never see you outside of the hardware channel so id thought id ask you here

Mango is too busy keeping his house from buckling under the weight of a bazillion Optiplexes

Do I need GeForce experience?

4:02 PM

Install or skip?

Skip

Unless you want to do in-network game streaming (Moonlight, etc.), you can just manually install the drivers and skip experience. Nvidia is in the works replacing that with the "Nvidia app," though I think it's still beta. The upside is that it won't require a login, which has always felt stupid. I guess Sunshine can be used as a separate method for streaming, which I'll eventually need to investigate because I like to sometimes stream games from my PC to a tablet, but I haven't gotten that far. (edited)

So skip it is! Thanks!

1

Some folks find its built-in game "optimized settings" to be useful, but I'm more of a "tweak each game individually" kind of guy

Plus I’m still in that mentality we discussed earlier, the lighter the better

1

It's definitely one less thing on the boot list. On that note, I was amazed at how terrible the MSI utility that came with my motherboard was. I generally like to keep things lite too, but I decided to give it a chance. It's total garbage, though (edited)

I am on my first Rog Strix

But that's been my experience with MSI as a whole, too, so I guess that tracks. re:ROG I used their GPU Tweak program for yeeeeeears before decovering the one thing that MSI does well. Afterburner. (edited)

So has anyone done a picofly mod on switch? Saw a chip being advertised on Amazon.

Yep, I saw all those videos on gpu undervolt and curve optimiser

I honestly don't understand the more robust features, but even just the OSD and basic functionality of Afterburner is better than GPU Tweak. Additional bonus points for still supporting data displaying on my ancient Logitech G15 keyboard (edited)

I install it because iirc it's the only way to get auto-updating drivers without having to go and look them up manually. I just disable the other settings like the overlay inside it.

Fellow overlay disabler.

deadlybydsgn

Unless you want to do in-network game streaming (Moonlight, etc.), you can just manually install the drivers and skip experience. Nvidia is in the works replacing that with the "Nvidia app," though I think it's still beta. The upside is that it won't require a login, which has always felt stupid. I guess Sunshine can be used as a separate method for streaming, which I'll eventually need to investigate because I like to sometimes stream games from my PC to a tablet, but I haven't gotten that far. (edited)

moonlight is removed on the app already PensiveClown

(edited)

1

Right, but they asked about GF Experience. I guess I thought they were getting that and not the Nvidia app. I haven't gotten that yet to check all of it out, but I did see that Moonlight was removed. I also need to investigate Sunshine (edited)

deadlybydsgn

Some folks find its built-in game "optimized settings" to be useful, but I'm more of a "tweak each game individually" kind of guy

Optimized settings are shit, they target 40-60fps

1

You're not wrong, but I'm sure it's helpful for a few folks who don't know much about how individual settings affect performance

The new app has tiers for optimized settings, but they're still shit because the "performance" setting still targets mostly 60 with drops to high 40s acceptable

It would be cool if they went all-in on optimizations and let you customize the tiers. I probably still wouldn't use them, but I could see an appeal in that for those who do

The problem is they don't want the game to look bad, so they'll have it run like shit instead Looks good on screenshots tho (edited)

4:45 PM

Either way, i still like having the recording running at all times so i don't skip GE, and now it doesn't even need an account

GFE was the worst about forcing you to reenter your login credentials

tech bob ross asks for my account, i'm giving him my deets

exio4

tech bob ross asks for my account, i'm giving him my deets

You'd let apple scan your photos for your safety tho, your opinion doesn't count

nah i actually dislike them doing that, but everybody here uses windows which is 20x worse so this is like Hummer owners talking about how hybrid cars are less efficient than EVs lol

exio4

nah i actually dislike them doing that, but everybody here uses windows which is 20x worse so this is like Hummer owners talking about how hybrid cars are less efficient than EVs lol

Cope

they don't do it tho, they actually dropped that lol tech bob ross is cuz of bryan catanzaro's rizz (edited)

exio4

they don't do it tho, they actually dropped that lol tech bob ross is cuz of bryan catanzaro's rizz (edited)

But would you have stopped using apple devices if they hadn't? Inb4 it's ok bro it's better than windows (edited)

Egdarska

But would you have stopped using apple devices if they hadn't? Inb4 it's ok bro it's better than windows (edited)

no, because the rest of the hardware/software is too good for what I want, what's the alternative? buying an intel laptop and coping my battery life is 3 hours on battery saver mode when I'm working out of home? run AI shit on what laptop GPU with >20GB of VRAM?

5:58 PM

it's the same as coping with nvidia, you hate their VRAM, too, don't you? why don't you switch to AMD? they offer more VRAM, same deal, corpos got all of us by the balls by some reason or another, you're coping like anybody else and saying otherwise is just because you're too delusional to accept reality

Nvidia doesn't scan my personal folders, at least that i know B-but it's exactly the same bro (edited)

Egdarska

Nvidia doesn't scan my personal folders, at least that i know B-but it's exactly the same bro (edited)

heh

do you have any google services on your phone, just in case? they have done that there for like a decade and Apple is the only provider out of the big ones to offer E2EE now, the CSAM shit was done because they wanted to preempt governments saying but think of the control before deploying it, so if your argument is about cloud data at all, they're the best there, they're the 6GB 3060 beating the XTX because it at least has doesn't crash I'm not defending Apple, they're a shit corpo like any other, I just like some of their products - I'm just saying you're basically acting like an AMD fanboy and unable to recognize competitors offer something of value for some people [also, NVIDIA does it] (edited)

6:04 PM

GeForce Experience scans most of your folders, and basically sends your game settings to the mothership to know who is using which settings and what not AFAIK, yeah, it's different - but Apple is doing less scanning (none if you E2EE) than Google/Microsoft do through their cloud services, which is the relevant comparison either way, you're talking about a feature Apple dropped out, so neither does Apple blobShrug

6:06 PM

meow

linux user with zero telemetry be like

exio4

GeForce Experience scans most of your folders, and basically sends your game settings to the mothership to know who is using which settings and what not AFAIK, yeah, it's different - but Apple is doing less scanning (none if you E2EE) than Google/Microsoft do through their cloud services, which is the relevant comparison either way, you're talking about a feature Apple dropped out, so neither does Apple blobShrug

But my question was if you would allow apple to scan your photos and look at their content to protect the children. (edited)

I'd rather they don't do it, I just hate it the way you mentioned me explicitly as if I am a sucker for sending my data away to corpos just because why not after a fucking joke about bryan catanzaro, but if the only way to get encryption to not get banned by governments was to do that, you have to consider if encrypting everything else is worth it, y'know and NVIDIA will do the same tracking they did on GFE with NVIDIA App, this time with your microsoft account as metadata, I assume

6:21 PM

either way, you don't have degoogled Android, they explicitly track your WiFi and location for their public databases, the CSAM Apple was talking about - all vendors do it, Google Photos has done it for years already, they just wanted to do it on-device which was the controversial side

Yeah, that's why i don't do Google's cloud, one of the reasons anyway

I just like singling out apple because users of other products know it's shitty behavior and we just wish they'd stop, but apple users get mad as fuck and compile a list of other companies that do the same

sure, but singling out Apple in data privacy is like saying the 4060 Ti has useless raytracing performance for rendering when it outperforms all other competitors lol

Egdarska

But would you have stopped using apple devices if they hadn't? Inb4 it's ok bro it's better than windows (edited)

what are the alternatives btw?

exio4

what are the alternatives btw?

Open phone with custom rom :^)

Egdarska

Open phone with custom rom :^)

i like having access to my banking apps, and a working camera

exio4

i like having access to my banking apps, and a working camera

You can btw

8:12 PM

Banking apps work unless you root the phone, and even if you root it you can still use them by using the safetynetfix or something like it

Yeah, there's always workarounds

In fact I now need to use aurora store with phone model spoofing because one of my banking apps dropped support for my smartphone lol

Samueru

In fact I now need to use aurora store with phone model spoofing because one of my banking apps dropped support for my smartphone lol

Dropped support for the phone lol

Egdarska

Dropped support for the phone lol

Yeah makes no sense, I had to also put lineageos on my fathers phone because of that

what phone is it lol

Sorry, your broke ass can't afford using our bank, but we'll still take your money tho

exio4

what phone is it lol

Redmi 9

That's not even that old wtf, mfs using android 4 to this day

2020 android phone by xiaomi, basically e-waste by 2021, by 2022 you should have bought a new one tops, skill issue tbh

1

X3D variants perform better than 14700k and the 14900k ATM for Yuzu?

1

@Samueru i'm still feeling burned by my xiaomi a2 lite purchase

Buying anything with an A or Lite in the name is just asking for it. They're usually worse than products from 2 generations before (edited)

Damn almost 50% off https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-12600KF-Desktop-Processor-Unlocked/dp/B09FXFJW2F?tag=gamespot-promos-20

Intel Core i5-12600KF Desktop Processor 10 (6P+4E) Cores up to 4.9 ...

Intel Core i5-12600KF Desktop Processor 10 (6P+4E) Cores up to 4.9 GHz Unlocked LGA1700 600 Series Chipset 125W

I want small phones, fight me, the only small [affordable] phone that seemed nice at the same was the A2 Lite, and everything else is shitty tablet sized at best (edited)

1

Buy a Redmagic 9 Pro

(edited)

exio4

I want small phones, fight me, the only small [affordable] phone that seemed nice at the same was the A2 Lite, and everything else is shitty tablet sized at best (edited)

Just get normal sized hands

Moonlacer

Buy a Redmagic 9 Pro

(edited)

https://www.gsmarena.com/zte_nubia_red_magic_9_pro-12709.php ? it's 6,8"

Hnng

exio4

https://www.gsmarena.com/zte_nubia_red_magic_9_pro-12709.php ? it's 6,8"

Yes, and then you won't be able to go back livereaction

Moonlacer

Yes, and then you won't be able to go back livereaction

i have a 6.5" phone lol i've used my moto g9 play a lot, it's unusable at best, trash at worst (edited)

exio4

i have a 6.5" phone lol i've used my moto g9 play a lot, it's unusable at best, trash at worst (edited)

That's just motorola tho, not the size

? no, it's the size, holding it is uncomfortable just like another big ass phone

1

Skill issue tbh

Moonlacer

Yes, and then you won't be able to go back livereaction

i use a 6.1" screen phone and i think even that's a little too big

2

LukeTheVideoGamer

i use a 6.1" screen phone and i think even that's a little too big

i like u

LukeTheVideoGamer

i use a 6.1" screen phone and i think even that's a little too big

I can't even use my S22 anymore after this new phone

bunch of tiny hands people lol

9:45 PM

I actually like that I have arrow keys next to the navigation buttons in lineageos, because I can't select text with my fingers lol

I just like that my phone has a truly fullscreen display, no pesky little notch or hole punch. It makes content and fullscreen gaming great

Mine only has a teardrop notch on the top part, but since I don't game on the phone it is never an issue (youtube videos always leave vertical black bars on the sides due to the phone being wider than 16:9 anyway)

Wide movies and YT videos zoomed to fill are the main advantages (edited)

I hate notches, just make the phone slightly taller reee

@exio4 I'm setting up the pc with the fm2 cpu to do the speedtest again

10:46 PM

Mmmm

Samueru

@exio4 I'm setting up the pc with the fm2 cpu to do the speedtest again

How many eff pee ees do you get on totk?

Egdarska

How many eff pee ees do you get on totk?

On the FM2 pc? I won't even bother to test that lol

11:02 PM

That shit struggled to run wind waker on dolphin I remember

Wack

Even my shitty athlon got (mostly) full speed in wind waker

top kek, arc gpus get hdr working on some games

that isn't shocking, there are multiple windows HDR APIs

yeah and intel only implemented the generic d3d one

11:29 PM

games only using the proprietary ones are as much at fault here

11:29 PM

but dear god how hard is it to implement the amd or nvidia one to boost compatibility

it's a lot of work they'll get to it, eventually - deck only does the proper one too the other ones are older afaik (edited)

The current hdr implementations piss me off so much

there's a LOT to mature in HDR

11:32 PM

heh, the irony if in 6 months the linux method is better than the windows one

Imagine if you could buy a game that doesn't support regular 24bpp monitors and you had to hope they have proper TrueColor™️

still, as you call it exio, that's lost value for the moment on arc hope they eventually sort it out, we're moving to an era of budget HDR displays faster than i imagined

GoldenX86_64

still, as you call it exio, that's lost value for the moment on arc hope they eventually sort it out, we're moving to an era of budget HDR displays faster than i imagined

Usable* budget hdr Hdr400 has been cheap for years

as an ex-user of hdr400: fuck hdr400

11:34 PM

hdr1000 with fald is where it's at

Still waiting for hdr10000

true mastering

11:36 PM

no joke, the aoc at 1300 nits has been amazing so far, and it's a sub 300 bucks display

11:36 PM

that should mean in a year or two, we should be at 150 or 200 bucks for something similar

11:36 PM

usable fast VA saved the market kek

GoldenX86_64

still, as you call it exio, that's lost value for the moment on arc hope they eventually sort it out, we're moving to an era of budget HDR displays faster than i imagined

i know, i just mentioned that because it makes sense technically but, real HDR is still vastly more niche than discord or team/zoom calls so

true

if Arc gets a 5 due to HDR, Radeon should get 1 without the chance to retake the exam in encoders, playing the "who has the best feature set" between Arc/AMD right now is a matter of what you personally care the only One-Size-Fits-All GPU brand is NVIDIA, if you pay up for the VRAM you want/need

nvidia pulling a better apple than apple with a product that is actually usable for anything

11:40 PM

if you burn the cash

exio4

if Arc gets a 5 due to HDR, Radeon should get 1 without the chance to retake the exam in encoders, playing the "who has the best feature set" between Arc/AMD right now is a matter of what you personally care the only One-Size-Fits-All GPU brand is NVIDIA, if you pay up for the VRAM you want/need

SHILL

true shill, uses a deck and decks it

11:40 PM

imagine the deck with an xe gpu

11:40 PM

dear god

I'd still take the arc over amd, it actually has a chance of being decent in a few months

nah, they're playing nearly the exact same playbook, Apple and NVIDIA both sell ecosystems, just one is about ~consumer electronics~ the other is ~general purpose gpu compute~, shockingly enough to surprise of nobody; the playbook works, once you build the ecosystem, and people are using your platform as a core foundation of everything they do, everybody's else skill issues just double up your Ws, and the ecosystem keeps getting bigger

capitalism 2.0

NetworkManager moment, it says that my connection is 100 mbps but it is actually full gigabit lmao

11:51 PM

kek

11:51 PM

my old laptop needed a reboot to change connections over network manager

11:51 PM

linux moments

Samueru

Click to see attachment 🖼️

so, it did do 1 Gbps, without flatlining at half the speed, and 100%?

exio4

so, it did do 1 Gbps, without flatlining at half the speed, and 100%?

That's my own pc

Samueru

That's my own pc

oh lol

I was troubleshooting the connection being 100mbps on the fm2 PC and went and used the same cable on my PC and discovered that (I'm doing the test right now on a manjaro live enviroment on the FM2 pc, will test windows 10 next)

11:57 PM

Oh boy, you can see the cpu struggle on Linux lmao, but there is only a small bottleneck on the upload

loool

Do the scanlands render on that bad boy lol (edited)

Alright now I will install windows 10

Install windows vista

Egdarska

Install windows vista

Btw I'm using windows 10 because 11 is a trainwreck, my father still uses windows partition because he uses a video editing software that doesn't work on wine, but the pc was recently hit by the infamous micro stuttering bug that hit windows 11 and had to roll it back lol

1

Kek

Samueru

Btw I'm using windows 10 because 11 is a trainwreck, my father still uses windows partition because he uses a video editing software that doesn't work on wine, but the pc was recently hit by the infamous micro stuttering bug that hit windows 11 and had to roll it back lol

Nvidia? They fixed that through a driver, and Microsause is working on fixing it on their next cumulative update.

Windows 11 has worked fine for me so far, but almost everyone i know has had some issues lol

OldManKain

Nvidia? They fixed that through a driver, and Microsause is working on fixing it on their next cumulative update.

Yes nvidia, but we also tested with the intel igpu and it still happened

Yeah microsause messed up sometihng in flip presentation. I luckily haven't had that issue. (edited)

KEK

12:32 AM

@exio4 Also it is a A8 7600, I said 7800 before.

a friend has an a8 7600 in use for his mother

12:35 AM

good gpu for the time, made gaming viable

Wait it actually did gigabit this time, but the cpu still gets to 100% lol

12:41 AM

Upload was 763mbps

WHAT CRACKED ASS UPLOAD SPEED YOU GOT MAN???

Awesomeangotti

WHAT CRACKED ASS UPLOAD SPEED YOU GOT MAN???

Symmetrical gigabit

You arent in america are you? If not, ONLY IN NOT AMERICA!

Venezuela lol

Man american internet infrastructure is not cracked af

Awesomeangotti

Man american internet infrastructure is not cracked af

Cries in 120/12

Pain

T-thanks cox

On fast.com my upload is only half the speed though

Samueru

On fast.com my upload is only half the speed though

Lmao, cheating tests strike again

Egdarska

Lmao, cheating tests strike again

wdym cheating lol

Samueru

wdym cheating lol

More like the isps, they cheat by giving you better speeds when they detect a speed test

1:01 AM

Fast.com gives accurate results because they just look like netflix streaming to the isp, though i guess they could cheat by not throttling netflix traffic, which is a win anyway

This is to miami (the fast.com test is also to miami server) (that ping is nice btw) (edited)

Might just be shitty servers then

(I used to get A+)

The joys of living in the country where there are no cables to use.

You don't have fiber nation wide?

we do and no one can use it because politics

I can't even get cable internet, and dsl is 7mb/1.5mb

OldManKain

The joys of living in the country where there are no cables to use.

Starlink?

T-mobile 5G internet.

OldManKain

T-mobile 5G internet.

Oh, here we are still using LTE, and the LTE is shitty like you get 10/5 mbps lol

Lets just say this is way better than my 200USD a month Huguesnet I had for 5 years.

I'm still mad my phone network got bought by fucking t-mobile, i used to get 100Mbps in 2017, now it tops at like 40 (edited)

Samueru

(I used to get A+)

Whats a bufferbloat

Awesomeangotti

Whats a bufferbloat

ping increased under load.

1:12 AM

https://www.speedtest.net/global-index/argentina?city=Buenos%20Aires#fixed https://www.speedtest.net/global-index/venezuela?city=Maracaibo#fixed You can see the symetrical speeds in the average here vs buenos aires, but the mobile internet is horrible still lol

Buenos Aires's Mobile and Broadband Internet Speeds - Speedtest Glo...

Buenos Aires ranked 87th in the world for mobile speeds and 60th for fixed broadband speeds during January 2024.

Maracaibo's Mobile and Broadband Internet Speeds - Speedtest Global...

Maracaibo ranked 147th in the world for mobile speeds and 93rd for fixed broadband speeds during January 2024.

Egdarska

I'm still mad my phone network got bought by fucking t-mobile, i used to get 100Mbps in 2017, now it tops at like 40 (edited)

I was under the impression that t-mobile was good in the us and that verizon and at&t sucked lol

https://youtu.be/LfpXMuMvcWQ this video uses an AMD CPU alongside an Intel GPU... honestly goals

Linus Tech Tips

It’s time to kill the Playstation 5

Samueru

I was under the impression that t-mobile was good in the us and that verizon and at&t sucked lol

There's no good isp in the us, just less shitty ones, but t-mobile is at best just less shitty than verizon

1

Egdarska

There's no good isp in the us, just less shitty ones, but t-mobile is at best just less shitty than verizon

Xfinity garbage right? (Most garbage) (edited)

everyone's garbage really, ya just gotta find the ones that are the least garbage

Samueru

I was under the impression that t-mobile was good in the us and that verizon and at&t sucked lol

imagine cyberpunk 2077, now remove the chrome, make it less retro, you have america

exio4

imagine cyberpunk 2077, now remove the chrome, make it less retro, you have america

>less retro Bro only knows america from movies

Egdarska

>less retro Bro only knows america from movies

i mean the design of walmart guns, and lack of soviet union and shit bro

exio4

imagine cyberpunk 2077, now remove the chrome, make it less retro, you have america

I am an American, and I approve of this message

Egdarska

There's no good isp in the us, just less shitty ones, but t-mobile is at best just less shitty than verizon

Agreed, but when they purchased sprint they sure fucked those customers over.

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

I am an American, and I approve of this message

you are a burrito

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

I am an American, and I approve of this message

I'm so sorry, we have a support group, we meet every weekend when there's no mass shooting the previous week

Egdarska

I'm so sorry, we have a support group, we meet every weekend when there's no mass shooting the previous week

Sounds like I won't be attending anytime soon then pepesmoke

We'll have the first meeting at some point

(Though also let's keep down the talk of mass shootings for obvious reasons in this chat :p )

1

i disagree, i love cyberpunk's gameplay (i have bad taste)

exio4

i disagree, i love cyberpunk's gameplay (i have bad taste)

Can't pet dogs in Cyberpunk 0/10

Counterargument, you can pet cats

One of these days I'm gonna redownload cyberpunk and try to enjoy it, maybe when a third person mode drops

Pergmen

Counterargument, you can pet cats

11/10 masterpiece

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

Can't pet dogs in Cyberpunk 0/10

you can also have your own cat, and iguana

Is this new??? I played the game a long time ago

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

Is this new??? I played the game a long time ago

i mean, like 2? years

I only played when it was v1.2

2:02 AM

looks like it was added right after

2:02 AM

cyberpunk is basically minecraft

exio4

cyberpunk is basically minecraft

Mid open world game that kids on the spectrum get obsessed with?

Egdarska

Mid open world game that kids on the spectrum get obsessed with?

I am a kid on the spectrum that has sunk thousands of hours into Minecraft :3

1

Egdarska

Mid open world game that kids on the spectrum get obsessed with?

minecraft sold 300 million copies bro

I also had my minecraft moment by 2012, reminds me of my sim city 4 addiction as well.

exio4

minecraft sold 300 million copies bro

Yes, because of the aforementioned kids. I've bought like 6 copies lol

2

2:22 AM

I bought minecraft when it used the first numbering system, when it wasn't even beta

Samueru

I also had my minecraft moment by 2012, reminds me of my sim city 4 addiction as well.

mood, i was obsessed too

Egdarska

Mid open world game that kids on the spectrum get obsessed with?

Terraria better

Moonlacer

Terraria better

true, but they're both good fun depending on mood and playstyle

But yeah, I've also played a lot of Minecraft in my day and I think I'm just permanently burnt out on it unless my kids want to play it someday with me

that's basically my situation with minecraft too, terraria has more staying power in terms of variety

God bless sim city

squanchy 🥗

Anybody who buys less than 32GB of RAM in 2024 is a communist.

Communist? I don't get it. excuse me? But I'm going to start saving money about for a decent DDR :). Also sorry if I'm replying later. I've been working on something else for personal reasons.

GoldenX86_64

God bless sim city

Sims 2 had my favorite artist as the composer

squanchy 🥗

Anybody who buys less than 32GB of RAM in 2024 is a communist.

do i have to downgrade?

Seems so

2:44 AM

Was a good ride, back to 16

2:45 AM

"If the founding fathers wanted more than 640kB, they would have said so!"

True, make it an amendment

thankfully my phone guarantees it

I pledge the 32gbth amendment

GoldenX86_64

I pledge the 32gbth amendment

Is that pronounced like a mf with braces trying to say gigabit?

2

exio4

thankfully my phone guarantees it

apple wont ship a phone with 32gb of ram for like 10 years, im safe rn

Btw, 32GB GB Great Britain Very freedom unit

Moonlacer

Sims 2 had my favorite artist as the composer

Jerry Martin?

exio4

apple wont ship a phone with 32gb of ram for like 10 years, im safe rn

15

GoldenX86_64

15

i’m expecting them to up the price and offer a high end version at some point, $1799 for it (edited)

You just want your phone llama

2:48 AM

"Hello siri, write me a book"

exio4

i’m expecting them to up the price and offer a high end version at some point, $1799 for it (edited)

less than $2000? I don't believe you

1599 will still have only 8gb

🌸 Plutia 🌸

less than $2000? I don't believe you

the base model with 128 gb of storage

Samueru

Jerry Martin?

Mark Mothersbaugh

Moonlacer

Mark Mothersbaugh

Oh, nvm then. The other one has been in a bunch of sim city and sims games.

exio4

the base model with 128 gb of storage

make it 64 and I'd buy it (the idea, not the phone lol)

apple cant get long term suppliers to do 64 gb anymore, they actually can’t make that because the industry forces them to move on

Samueru

Oh, nvm then. The other one has been in a bunch of sim city and sims games.

Aye, Mark doesn't usually stick to any specific franchise for very long. He still does live performances with his band, DEVO kek

exio4

apple cant get long term suppliers to do 64 gb anymore, they actually can’t make that because the industry forces them to move on

that is actually pretty funny, a mini usb-c event, but in that case I guess they might eventually do a 128 storage 32 ram... which sounds just all kinds of insane... not putting it past them though

i need more battery

Get a bigger phone

exio4

i need more battery

40% just on discord lol

Limit display to 30hz

Get a bigger phone

🌸 Plutia 🌸

that is actually pretty funny, a mini usb-c event, but in that case I guess they might eventually do a 128 storage 32 ram... which sounds just all kinds of insane... not putting it past them though

meow, i actually kid cuz theres no way supplies allow for that soon ish

Get a bigger phone

Samueru

40% just on discord lol

God Discord is such a battery hog. I've seen it use more battery than games before for similar screen on time

Yep

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

God Discord is such a battery hog. I've seen it use more battery than games before for similar screen on time

Welcome to electron lol

exio4

i need more battery

Get a bigger phone

Electron should be labeled a crime against humanity

this guy spends 40% of his ~~day~~ battery arguing with children

Samueru

Welcome to electron lol

It's not electron on mobile, it's React Native

1

greggle

this guy spends 40% of his ~~day~~ battery arguing with children

Living the life

why should i get a bigger phone? i can get a new battery and go back to 5-6 hours screen on time, my battery is heavily degraded; also Discord is react native lol

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

It's not electron on mobile, it's React Native

Even on android?

Like damn that's crazy DogeKek

Get a foldable

Samueru

Even on android?

Yes, the new Android app is React Native. Old one was Kotlin

Pay $200 for a battery replacement from Apple and still have the same PoS. Otherwise risk the DRM battery (edited)

Bring back the old one, it supported dex

2:58 AM

Imagine this UI in 27 inches

Moonlacer

Pay $200 for a battery replacement from Apple and still have the same PoS. Otherwise risk the DRM battery (edited)

i want my photos to be e2ee

just think about how many more kids you could argue with if you had the pro max battery capacity

Moonlacer

Pay $200 for a battery replacement from Apple and still have the same PoS. Otherwise risk the DRM battery (edited)

It's 90 bucks if you were curious

Plus tools

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

Yes, the new Android app is React Native. Old one was Kotlin

Oh, it i just discord being shit then lol

Samueru

Oh, it i just discord being shit then lol

Yes absolutely DogeKek

Discord is composed entirely of rejected gnome devs

1

ᗩᒪIᑕIᗩᗷᑌᖇᖇITO ツ

It's 90 bucks if you were curious

Argentina pricing would like a word with you

Argentina pricing is not covered by international law

greggle

just think about how many more kids you could argue with if you had the pro max battery capacity

not enough, must buy a stack of magsafe batteries

Moonlacer

Argentina pricing would like a word with you

Argentina's economy is so cooked pepesmoke

Ancap bro will save it

300% inflation octolingSip

. Just ask Golden how much he just paid for his midrange monitor

exio4

not enough, must buy a stack of magsafe batteries

Get a 15 pro and an usable usb port already

Moonlacer

300% inflation octolingSip

. Just ask Golden how much he just paid for his midrange monitor

Oh that was just shipping and taxes

GoldenX86_64

Get a 15 pro and an usable usb port already

i will eventually, hopefully 16 pro is not a major upgrade that actually makes it sad to go 15 pro on discount

Meh, it will last nonetheless

GoldenX86_64

Oh that was just shipping and taxes

Yeah, but compare to the same thing from sellers online

Heh

3:01 AM

Trice the price in taxes, still half the local price

3:01 AM

Argentina, you wouldn't get it

3:02 AM

Don't ask how much a 4090 or 7900xtx is

1

exio4

i will eventually, hopefully 16 pro is not a major upgrade that actually makes it sad to go 15 pro on discount

But the 15 pro is normal phone sized, you'll hate it

7900 xtx is overpriced at any price, no matter the country (edited)

Don't even start, Exio kek

This is where 50% of your battery goes every time someone mentions AMD (edited)

damn, exio vs moon moon time

Egdarska

But the 15 pro is normal phone sized, you'll hate it

it’s fine, 6.1” but mostly tall not wide, i have held the pros - weight is the biggest issue imo, but i haven’t held the titanium ones

exio4

7900 xtx is overpriced at any price, no matter the country (edited)

I'd pay $350 for one

GoldenX86_64

Don't ask how much a 4090 or 7900xtx is

https://www.mercadolibre.com.ar/placa-de-video-nvidia-zotac-geforce-rtx-40-series-rtx-4090-zt-d40900d-10p-24gb/p/MLA21275157 How much is 3.7 million pesos?

Placa de video Nvidia Zotac GeForce RTX 40 Series RTX 4090 ZT-D409...

exio4

it’s fine, 6.1” but mostly tall not wide, i have held the pros - weight is the biggest issue imo, but i haven’t held the titanium ones

the titanium+aluminum ones are like "woah ok" in terms of feeling lighter compared to the stainless steel ones It makes the Max feel a lot more balanced too, and less straining to use. That alongside the more rounded corners

4070 performance but you lose any usability, that seems about what I'd pay

Samueru

https://www.mercadolibre.com.ar/placa-de-video-nvidia-zotac-geforce-rtx-40-series-rtx-4090-zt-d40900d-10p-24gb/p/MLA21275157 How much is 3.7 million pesos?

3700, “kinda” - metaphorically closer to /1400 so 2300? (edited)

https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ve/MLV-763168580-tarjeta-de-video-nvidia-gigabyte-geforce-rtx-4090-24gb-gpu-_JM#position=1&search_layout=grid&type=item&tracking_id=2abae55e-77ff-4aeb-98ff-e3d327dbbc7e (The price is already in usd here)

Tarjeta De Video Nvidia Gigabyte Geforce Rtx 4090 24gb Gpu

Encuentra más productos en Mercado Libre

>mercado libre

gpu prices were fine mid 2020, miss those days fr

Egdarska

>mercado libre

During the pandemic they changed their logo to remove the shaking hands lol

Moonlacer

Don't even start, Exio kek

This is where 50% of your battery goes every time someone mentions AMD (edited)

I do it on purpose

3:07 AM

So his green apple side shows

you have experienced dlss, you know what the forbidden fruit tastes like

I also know their low end is garbage

3:08 AM

Latam measures with the low end

the alternative are products that don’t work, and for lots of cards - dlss is an IQ advantage

imho any of the three silicon manufacturers for GPUs are good enough if all you do is play video games. dont even give me "ough image quality", most people dont give a fuck about it or they'll just grumble and deal with it like NORMAL PEOPLE, like i dont think most people even use monitors above 1080p on desktops

1080p is still king

Lel every time

Grab some popcorn, here comes the jensening

GoldenX86_64

Grab some popcorn, here comes the jensening

yeah imma admit i just wanted to see exio's reaction :p

I swear, apple and nvidia are a conspiracy to keep us stuck in 8gb

bigger reason to not get an amd gpu, dlss isnt ewaste at 1080p, fsr2 is; also good night its midnight, i will optix my sleep (it will be efficient while you keep wasting cycles, sorry smh)

Dlss has an entry point of a 3050

3:11 AM

A 3050 is wasted sand

3:12 AM

Dlss is moot if the card can't raster 30 fps

GoldenX86_64

Dlss has an entry point of a 3050

(or used 2060 but why are you going for a two generations old 6GB card just for DLSS) also like with TAA and FSR2, DLSS implementations vary between games, and last i checked Cyberpunk 2077 had not so great results with DLSS at 1080p output res (edited)

exio4

bigger reason to not get an amd gpu, dlss isnt ewaste at 1080p, fsr2 is; also good night its midnight, i will optix my sleep (it will be efficient while you keep wasting cycles, sorry smh)

honestly at 1080p I wouldn't recommend either

At 1080p do native and lower quality

1

3:12 AM

Even dlss is bad at 1080p

Lol Don't make me post the 1080p dlss screenshots again (edited)

I can notice dlss quality at 1440p, with ease

Also, dlaa if you don't want upscaling

Dlaa is cool

3:14 AM

The only good taa

other than good TAA

dlaa is nice yeah though nice by TAA standards is not a high bar (edited)

But that moves the entry point to a 3060

3:15 AM

Its like nvidia does a double nerf No VRAM, and software value that needs an expensive card to work

🌸 Plutia 🌸

dlaa is nice yeah though nice by TAA standards is not a high bar (edited)

"Normal" TAA standards*, not fine tuned ones (edited)

War thunder TAA Never look at that (edited)

lol proton got a logo

1

Samueru

lol proton got a logo

Is it 500MB?

Moonlacer

"Normal" TAA standards*, not fine tuned ones (edited)

TAA lowered the bar so much it's basically below the bottom of the barrel, why do you think everyone is avoiding the term these days

GoldenX86_64

I can notice dlss quality at 1440p, with ease

https://discord.com/channels/398318088170242053/729830357666496583/1206795365098065930 Can you tell which one is native and which one is shitty dlss quality?

GoldenX86_64

Is it 500MB?

Haha, just noticed it on my steam, it was a 384 Byte download, yes byte.

On the phone, lemme get a display

Egdarska

https://discord.com/channels/398318088170242053/729830357666496583/1206795365098065930 Can you tell which one is native and which one is shitty dlss quality?

Duh they are fixed images

3:18 AM

Post me some panning

3:18 AM

Dlss ultra performance looks good on a static image

Alright, I'll get a video later, it won't help the native image though (edited)

1

Video or nothing

3:19 AM

Else XeSS looks better than dlss in static images

Egdarska

Alright, I'll get a video later, it won't help the native image though (edited)

Monitor vendor: 240hz vs 60hz The marketing: Static image (edited)

GoldenX86_64

Monitor vendor: 240hz vs 60hz The marketing: Static image (edited)

marketing: 240 hz: looks normal 60 hz: blur

Funny how 60hz gets a blur example but pixel response time gets a 1ms lie

oh yeah according to marketing we had 1ms response time monitors since the beginning of time

The 1ms response time advertised should just be thrown out immediately when looking for a monitor, lol

should be, but at this point it's ubiquitous so good luck finding a reasonably priced monitor that doesn't boast this fake stat

Yeah, I just mean ignore that part of its marketing

that is fair, monitors don't really have issues with response time if the rest of the specs (refresh rate, panel, etc) are in any way relevant in the era they were produced, they're not TVs after all

Now, if they advertise a 10ms+ response time, it will not be a good experience

3:34 AM

I had one and the mouse movement just felt way off. It's a similar effect to a super high DPI on the mouse, is the best way I can describe it

yeah but if you buy a monitor that's above 60 hz these days I think you're more likely than not getting a decent response time my circumstantial evidence is the 144 hz monitor I bought in 2016, it was literally the cheapest one and I'm using it right now as I'm typing to you (edited)

Ah, I had one like that before I upgraded to a triple monitor setup. It didn't matter as much because it was used for the test bench, but the color banding was awful

I mean, this monitor is pretty alright still, 8 years later, I used it as my primary for 4 of those years too

When you upgrade, go for OLED

~~sure, at the same time I buy my new lamborghini and my mansion~~

Moonlacer

When you upgrade, go for OLED

oled is sooo cool but sooo expensive

i don't have money to replace oleds every year

4:01 AM

so lcd it is

GoldenX86_64

i don't have money to replace oleds every year

eh, oleds dont really burn in that easily anymore, especially if you take the necessary precautions (hide any unnecessary status bars that are usually always on, black background, make sure automatic dimming is enabled for prolonged images, image shift, etc) but that doesnt mean they're impervious to it, and i understand the hesitation of going oled in any case

that's the thing, i wanna do completely unattended regular desktop use

even if you dont want to do any of those precautions (other than image or "logo" shift, that's kinda important imo), a good way to keep your OLED in good health for longer is to have a wide variety of fullscreen content to put on it, keep your stuff varied basically. and in my opinion, the benefits of OLED (near instantaneous pixel response times compared to standard LCDs, >1,000,000:1 contrast ratio which also makes them good for HDR, that jazz) outweigh any negatives like burn-in edit: to expand on that first thing, even simply letting your taskbar auto-hide in windows and setting your wallpaper to change every 15 minutes or something would be good enough (edited)

reasonable, but i'm too boomer to move my taskbar to autohide kek

4:21 AM

vendors are solving the burn in, it's just a waiting game

GoldenX86_64

reasonable, but i'm too boomer to move my taskbar to autohide kek

understandable

My smartphone suffers from burn in and doesn't have a OLED display, I can often see the navigation bar icons and the status bar when I switching to a fullscreen video lol

Burn in can happen on lcd too, it just has to be really crappy, i had a led tv with a game ui burned in. They don't call it burn in, it's usually some other kind of "image retention" but lol it's burn in (edited)

Egdarska

Burn in can happen on lcd too, it just has to be really crappy, i had a led tv with a game ui burned in. They don't call it burn in, it's usually some other kind of "image retention" but lol it's burn in (edited)

it doesnt even need to be crappy. keep any content on for long enough and it'll probably burn in

It began to happen last year, and it usually disappears after a while, it is not permanent though. Haven't had any burn in on my pc displays, and they are near 10 year old already.

Omg the monitors are actually 19 year old lmao

Samueru

My smartphone suffers from burn in and doesn't have a OLED display, I can often see the navigation bar icons and the status bar when I switching to a fullscreen video lol

Your phone sucks livereaction

Moonlacer

Your phone sucks livereaction

I think it is just that it has gotten older, it didn't have the burn in issues before.

Samueru

Omg the monitors are actually 19 year old lmao

https://www.viewsonic.com/es/products/sheet/VG1930wm The manual is dated from 2005 lol how good is that monitor compared to today's standards?

ViewSonic VG1930wm 19" WIDESCREEN GRAPHICS SERIES LCD WITH SWIVEL A...

Elegantly styled digital business widescreenViewSonic’s 19” VG1930wm combines WIDESCREEN and multimedia performance with ergonomic flexibility. Improve productivity and save time with widescreen versatility. Display multiple pages, larger spreadsheets and more on a single screen without the need to swap. HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT, tilt and 360° swivel f...

Samueru

https://www.viewsonic.com/es/products/sheet/VG1930wm The manual is dated from 2005 lol how good is that monitor compared to today's standards?

WIDESCREEN BRO

4:59 AM

1440x900, what a blast from the past

Egdarska

1440x900, what a blast from the past

I like the 19:10 aspect ratio, it allows me to have to some floating windows over the current window without them interfering too much (edited)

5:4 master race

For example I can have the music player like that on the top corner as a pop up window, on a 16:9 display that would take too much vertical space.

wouldn't resolution matter more? also, i can find new 5:4 monitors but they're all 1280x1024 (edited)

5:05 AM

https://www.newegg.com/lg-21/p/0JC-000D-00DR5 excuse me

Egdarska

wouldn't resolution matter more? also, i can find new 5:4 monitors but they're all 1280x1024 (edited)

Not really, iirc newer laptops are coming as 16:10 because it is better for text and similar stuff

yeah, but i mean on a larger display, specially considering that is just 900p

5:10 AM

@exio4 I forgot the trade agreement act was a thing and got confused for a moment

Egdarska

@exio4 I forgot the trade agreement act was a thing and got confused for a moment

no way an LG 4K monitor that's compliant with Temporal Anti-Aliasing

hm, factorio runs way faster with zink than with the opengl driver

6:25 AM

(zink = opengl over vulkan)

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the linux version of BeamNG.Drive:

1

7:20 AM

https://www.phoronix.com/review/cachyos-x86-64-v3-v4

Arch Linux CachyOS Benchmarks Of x86-64-v3 & x86-64-v4 Repositories

The Arch Linux based CachyOS Linux distribution aims to be a 'blazingly fast and customizable Linux distribution' that is aggressive with its performance optimizations.

Samueru

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the linux version of BeamNG.Drive:

Egdarska

Click to see attachment 🖼️

2

Those two are great

3

@exio4 are there games that use almost 4GB even at the lowest settings, so impossible to even start on a 3GB card? I want to know if there's a game where the 960 could beat the 970 just by virtue of actually having 4GB instead of 3.5 (edited)

1

Egdarska

@exio4 are there games that use almost 4GB even at the lowest settings, so impossible to even start on a 3GB card? I want to know if there's a game where the 960 could beat the 970 just by virtue of actually having 4GB instead of 3.5 (edited)

Beamng on linux is one, you can play barely at a mix of low/lowest setttings, I don't see it working with 2GB cards though

Samueru

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the linux version of BeamNG.Drive:

Unsupported linux man

Metal Mario

Communist? I don't get it. excuse me? But I'm going to start saving money about for a decent DDR :). Also sorry if I'm replying later. I've been working on something else for personal reasons.

Our decent DDR.

1

im not able to connect my 4th ps4 controller to my pc i can connect my other 3 tho is there a work around this. I have heard that getting a better bluetooth usb reciever may work but idk any fixes? to get my 4th controller to connect i have to use a wired connection.

Metal Mario

Communist? I don't get it. excuse me? But I'm going to start saving money about for a decent DDR :). Also sorry if I'm replying later. I've been working on something else for personal reasons.

1

rizzsensei

im not able to connect my 4th ps4 controller to my pc i can connect my other 3 tho is there a work around this. I have heard that getting a better bluetooth usb reciever may work but idk any fixes? to get my 4th controller to connect i have to use a wired connection.

It's a limit of BT receivers due to the spec itself. It's not something you can work around unless you have multiple receivers, or you wire some controllers in. (edited)

squanchy 🥗

It's a limit of BT receivers due to the spec itself. It's not something you can work around unless you have multiple receivers, or you wire some controllers in. (edited)

so getting a better reciever works then? cuz my laptop already supports bluetooth but i think its kinda rubbish only supports 3 ?? (edited)

rizzsensei

so getting a better reciever works then? cuz my laptop already supports bluetooth but i think its kinda rubbish only supports 3 ?? (edited)

What version of BT does your laptop support?

squanchy 🥗

What version of BT does your laptop support?

it says the LMP number is 10.256 which according to the internet is 5.1 which says can support 7 but thats clearly wrong i think i have a weaker version idk maybe cuz lapotp idk my laptop is fairly old now like 5 years (edited)

https://www.reddit.com/r/DolphinEmulator/comments/135ugoz/pc_cant_keep_4_ds_controllers_connected/ "Anyway, have you tried lowering the polling rate on DS4Windows? Try changing to the lowest option (62 Hz if I recall correctly), that option is on the "Other" tab, when editing a profile. If you're using any light effect for the DS4 light bar, also try setting it to a single, static color instead, it seems to help..." So basically if you reduce the polling frequency you free up bandwidth for more controllers.

but isnt that bad cuz there will be latency or not as fast

Pretty much, but given you only want one extra controller, it should be ok. E.g. I have mine at 250Hz and I can have three connected at once. So maybe try 200 and 166Hz with four controllers? Keep going down the list. Of course, the lower the polling, the worse input latency and jitter will be. (edited)

2:24 PM

And tbh I should probably have changed it to 1000Hz (1kHz) given I play Tekken and some moves need frame-accuracy (1/60th of a second input windows). That's 16.67 milliseconds. 4 milliseconds of wait (potentially) might have been what was ruining my EWGFs.

(edited)

It’s ok if I keep my yuzu user folder in a new pc? I just need to keep my save files in the cleanest way possible

Steven Vigo

It’s ok if I keep my yuzu user folder in a new pc? I just need to keep my save files in the cleanest way possible

Yeah, I just installed the program (to create the folders in the weird user data areas) and then transferred the folder when I moved to my new build (edited)

Ok, that’s perfect

I'm always paranoid enough to keep a spare copy of my save folder somewhere until I'm sure it works fine on the new machine

Yeah, same… but I want to make sure I don’t keep any junk or some legacy setting

It's funny how much less I've been Yuzu-ing since my upgrade. It makes me wish I had done it before I was 95% of the way "done" with TotK

I forced myself to stop almost any gaming months ago for that reason! I am 0% in Totk and completely spoiler free

There are still tons of side quests to do, but I got the items I care about and beat the final story sequence. I don't think I even unlocked all of the map regions. One of the things I did to keep the game fresh was to deliberately keep parts of the map locked so I wouldn't know exactly where I was going

3:57 PM

But I played really regularly for a good 4-5 months and then just kind of lost interest. It's like eating your favorite food too many times in a row. You will always enjoy it, but your palate eventually gets maxed out and you need to stop. I really enjoyed TotK and know I would miss the depths/sky areas if I tried to replay BotW

Steven Vigo

It’s ok if I keep my yuzu user folder in a new pc? I just need to keep my save files in the cleanest way possible

Yes, that's how I do it. I just have a C:\Games\ folder with all of my emulators, saves, mods, settings, screenshots etc. in it. Then I just mirror that folder to a backup location every once in a while. That way, I can restore everything to how it was if I decide to reformat etc. (edited)

4:03 PM

BUT @Steven Vigo you should set your emulators to use portable profiles. That way the profile folder will be stored within your Yuzu application folder. Makes management+backup way easier.

Yall

Is this a good deal?

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh I wouldn't buy a 1200p 13.4" laptop. Shit's gon' be huge dawg. Also the CPU is very out of date, and will be power hungry.

i would if it has pen support (edited)

I would advise against buying that

squanchy 🥗

BUT @Steven Vigo you should set your emulators to use portable profiles. That way the profile folder will be stored within your Yuzu application folder. Makes management+backup way easier.

Yes, all my emulators are in portable mode.

Steven Vigo

Yes, all my emulators are in portable mode.

2

It do have pen support

6:05 PM

How bad is the out of date CPU?

Paper

How bad is the out of date CPU?

12500H is pretty ok for a low-power intel cpu but what do you wnat that for

I'd just buy an amd thinkpad tbh

The idea is to downsize my pc And make my pc my drawing tablet (edited)

6:13 PM

Here are basically my current specs, I'm away from home btw

hmm, not sure what's better for drawing, amd or intel gpus guess in this case tis the same

6:17 PM

what about building an itx pc instead

doesn't particularly matter, you just want lotsa ram

guess batery life could matter giving an edge to amd but afaik adobe stuff likes ecores (edited)

The ram amount I have and the ram this has is the same. I have a small galaxy tab 6lite thingy, and I use it for literally just drawing and get moments where it lags because of art size and I look at my pc and think I'd love to have that roughly anywhere like my tablet.

Paper

The ram amount I have and the ram this has is the same. I have a small galaxy tab 6lite thingy, and I use it for literally just drawing and get moments where it lags because of art size and I look at my pc and think I'd love to have that roughly anywhere like my tablet.

8 k drawing (edited)

Downsizing and merging uses is the main goal for me

Wait, can you draw this?

I'm working rn

Ok

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1b3xxq9/msi_claw_preorder_price_is_929_euro_in_spain/ DoA

From the hardware community on Reddit: MSI Claw preorder price is 9...

Explore this post and more from the hardware community

So would you guys say this would be a good pc change?

as long as you don't get intel-drivers-moment'd, it could work i'm not a fan of downgrades though, already did it once, never again

Wait how big a downgrade is this hardware wise?

what's your current hardware?

Paper

Here are basically my current specs, I'm away from home btw

here

it's an upgrade in CPU, and a big downgrade in GPU

6:46 PM

if the only use is drawing, it should be fine

I think I'd be fine I have a steam deck for games anyhow

the tl;dr with intel iGPUs is that they rock for desktop use, beat AMD in that aspect, but are useless for gaming

GoldenX86_64

the tl;dr with intel iGPUs is that they rock for desktop use, beat AMD in that aspect, but are useless for gaming

(Unless you are gaming on very old games)

GoldenX86_64

hmm, not sure what's better for drawing, amd or intel gpus guess in this case tis the same

I've drawn on a thinkpad with a ryzen 7 series and it was

By 7 i mean it was a 7xxx, forget which specific one (edited)

1

That sounds pretty ok for me but what about game streaming like steam linking

that's up to the encoding pc, the decoding one will be the same regardless

1

Thank you

Egdarska

I've drawn on a thinkpad with a ryzen 7 series and it was

By 7 i mean it was a 7xxx, forget which specific one (edited)

could be zen3 or zen4 or zen3+

exio4

could be zen3 or zen4 or zen3+

Do all of them have rdna2 gpu? The one i used wasn't vega

Egdarska

Do all of them have rdna2 gpu? The one i used wasn't vega

Zen2 is RDNA2 (Mendocino, low-end only though), Zen3 is Vega, Zen3+ is RDNA2, Zen4 is RDNA4

Thanks amd They're making chips just so they can go straight to a landfill (edited)

indeed, managed to beat intel

Egdarska

Thanks amd They're making chips just so they can go straight to a landfill (edited)

Mendocino makes sense *if you think of it as a chromebook soc for very low-end devices **if you pay a few hundred tops for the whole device

299 tops

a mendocino mini PC for $239 with 8GB of RAM as a router acegikMeow

Give me a use case where 8GB RAM on a router would be used

Moonlacer

Give me a use case where 8GB RAM on a router would be used

Streaming 10 gb internet

the best QoS and adware ruleset ever

Too much work

exio4

Mendocino makes sense *if you think of it as a chromebook soc for very low-end devices **if you pay a few hundred tops for the whole device

I meant the vegas

Egdarska

I meant the vegas

oh, yeah, that's amd

Was the vega vii as funny when it came out as jt is now? I honestly don't remember much about it at the time

vega vii the desktop card, or vega 7 the igpu?

7:44 PM

amd naming

Wasn't that called Radeon VII?

yeah

Calling it Vega VII is also true, though kek

the radeon 7 was fast but expensive, and didn't last long HBM memory has a short lifespan

8:12 PM

it was a compute monster - without cuda

exio4

Zen2 is RDNA2 (Mendocino, low-end only though), Zen3 is Vega, Zen3+ is RDNA2, Zen4 is RDNA4

Zen 4 is RDNA 2.

Nethan10Troi

Zen 4 is RDNA 2.

RDNA3, not 2, i fucked up but so did you

1

exio4

RDNA3, not 2, i fucked up but so did you

its RDNA 2

9:01 PM

if you mean mobile chips, its a different story - mobile is.. messier (edited)

Laptops are mobile yeah

the context was a thinkpad, i named the ultrabook naming scheme, if you want to specify that other chips exist thats very cool but it's just somebody being obnoxious because they wanna smart and it fucking annoys me, kindly get off your dumbass horse (edited)

9:03 PM

technically DragonRange exists on mobile, it's just that it is desktop-replacement chip, so you won't find that on a "drawing tablet/laptop", it's irrelevant for the actual comparison at hand (edited)

Egdarska

Laptops are mobile yeah

yeah mobile naming is.. sadge

40 minutes battery life : (

Awesomeangotti

40 minutes battery life : (

if you have 40 minutes of battery life, you indeed have bought the wrong thing, and it's zen4 with rdna2 - but you should be thankful it's 40 minutes and not 20 actually

(Not gaming)

no, that's the thing, the only devices on mobile with Zen4+RDNA2 are in the DragonRange/HX lineup with mediocre battery life and like 40W idle, it's all e-waste, you should buy Intel in that market

exio4

no, that's the thing, the only devices on mobile with Zen4+RDNA2 are in the DragonRange/HX lineup with mediocre battery life and like 40W idle, it's all e-waste, you should buy Intel in that market

What if i want 40W idle?

Egdarska

What if i want 40W idle?

the cpu is also slower than intel lol

exio4

the cpu is also slower than intel lol

What if i want 40W idle and shit performance?

Egdarska

What if i want 40W idle and shit performance?

you already own a FX-4300 I guess it's for the collection

6300 but yes. It doesn't even use that much power, 180W at full load overclocked (edited)

Egdarska

6300 but yes. It doesn't even use that much power, 180W at full load overclocked (edited)

Are you actually still using that cpu?

Egdarska

6300 but yes. It doesn't even use that much power, 180W at full load overclocked (edited)

You’re the ~~captain~~ mango now ✌️

Samueru

Are you actually still using that cpu?

i know one individual still using one. :)

Samueru

Are you actually still using that cpu?

No lol. Used it until 2022 tho

Egdarska

No lol. Used it until 2022 tho

Oh ok, yeah 2 masochists on the discord would be too many lol

i was gonna object to that but i remembered that i really am a self-proclaimed masochist so yeah carry on

1

1

Samueru

Oh ok, yeah 2 masochists on the discord would be too many lol

Yo we can say the M word now

Egdarska

Yo we can say the M word now

(a)md owner

fr

Maggot

"Man I wish VRAM wasn't this expensive"

nvidia/apple owners be like

Me included, stuck in 8GB hell

but still, AMD has a solid win that most vendors cannot beat, pixels per 1080p encode - who else can say that?

In a year the 3070 will be slower than the 12gb 3060

1:56 AM

Making an elephant out of an ant by now with that one

GoldenX86_64

Making an elephant out of an ant by now with that one

it's AV1, though, the (most likely) next H264 lol H265 also does 1082p but the spec allows for metadata to vibe it out - and AV1 still looks better than HEVC on AMD anyway, so you'd want to use if you can

Meh next cards will fix it, it's already confirmed Look at nvidia, they solved the Volta encoder of gtx 1600 just now (edited)

1:59 AM

Didn't see you mention it daily

what issue did they have

https://www.techpowerup.com/319830/nvidia-geforce-gtx-16-series-nvenc-issues-fixed-with-hotfix-driver

2:01 AM

Only took 5 years

i haven't heard of those issues before, i'll take it, usually the older encoder was known to be lower quality, but i didn't know it actually reliable generated corrupted files

I suffered them while recording for articles

2:02 AM

Nvidia also has AMD moments

yea ik, i just hadn't heard of the volta encoders suffering this specifically, i mean, nvidia+microsoft had the chrome rendering bug for like 2 years and it's only fixed on the dev build of windows rn

GoldenX86_64

Me included, stuck in 8GB hell

I'm in 6GB 3060 purgatory

Hell

Egdarska

I'm in 6GB 3060 purgatory

just buy AMD next time Clueless

Jokes aside, a 6600 can be faster now due to games eating vram like candies

Lol, rt on a 6600

Lol rt with 6gb

@Egdarska uses blender regularly, and nvenc, and the tensor cores, and dlss (because it improves IQ) so i'd like to see the 6600 comparison (edited)

Just get a 4070

It works in the games i play with rt, which is mostly re8, but also yeah, amd is not even an option for me

Egdarska

It works in the games i play with rt, which is mostly re8, but also yeah, amd is not even an option for me

most games where RT would be useful in AMD, you'd still want to use DLAA/DLSS Ultra Quality with dlsstweaks/DLSS Quality at higher resolutions for the better overall TAA anyway

Meh, how expensive can a 4070 be

exio4

most games where RT would be useful in AMD, you'd still want to use DLAA/DLSS Ultra Quality with dlsstweaks/DLSS Quality at higher resolutions for the better overall TAA anyway

Nuh uh I'm gonna do rt native 4k 60fps on a 6800

1

a friend's 4070 Ti is so fucking wild, guy got a 3700X so he's always cpu bound that gpu is so fucking fast dude lol (edited)

Sounds like Formula 1 fans arguing while driving a Peugeot 206

GoldenX86_64

Sounds like Formula 1 fans arguing while driving a Peugeot 206

for the shit we do, all AMD gpus are more like those soviet cars from the 60s than a peugeot 206 don't make me tap the blender sign (edited)

I don't know enough about cars to know what that means

It means complaining while using low end products

My low end gpu is infinitely better than amd's flagship at what i need it to do so that's irrelevant

we're on low-end nvidia because the alternative is gpus from amd that performed like low-end nvidia from a decade prior, if they even run the thing for our workload - I explicitly got my 2060 Super for AI shit

But why not a 4090

Because that costs money and laptop 4090 is lol

Your use case is nvidia, you have all the right to use nvidia But shilling every day about it gets boring fast

because budgets are limited? and we buy what we can afford? this isn't shocking, you look at value, and so do we, the performance difference between NVIDIA & AMD is about infinite because AMD can't run the shit I want (at all)

It's not shilling, you brought up the 6600, i was just saying why that's not an option for me

Nvidia is turning its users into Tesla owners

2:14 AM

I brought up the 6600 for gaming, mentioning how 8gb cards will overtake 6gb ones soon, could have used the 8gb 3050

yeah, and gaming includes DLSS/Reflex, so it's not even a real win (edited)

Like, i hate that they gimped the mobile card so hard with 6GB, but it was the affordable option for me and it works

We already have examples of the 3060 beating the 3070, in RT, with DLSS

2:15 AM

The moment amd is brought up for a gaming example, shill mode turns on

Also, the 6GB does piss me off a lot because re4 just plain crashes with rt, and it's not even good looking rt

DLSS doesn't solve low VRAM, nor does NVENC

GoldenX86_64

The moment amd is brought up for a gaming example, shill mode turns on

It's not shilling, in my case it's being mad at amd for forcing me to buy nvidia Intel looks cool though, might be the savior next arch (edited)

We all waiting to see battlemage, lol, that's for sure

2:19 AM

If someone can actually fight cuda, it's Intel

GoldenX86_64

We already have examples of the 3060 beating the 3070, in RT, with DLSS

yeah, but the 6600 isn't Ampere, but my 2060S is a better product, still, I have tried the RX 6600 XT - my closest IRL friend got one

the encoder is trash for PCVR (this is gaming)
the GPU is e-waste at 4K gaming (FSR2 Performance? DLSS Performance? it's alright, XeSS Performance is like 20 fps so it is irrelevant)
Cyberpunk 2077 had better frames in raster but it felt sluggish as fuck on a side-by-side with Reflex enabled, and at 1440p it would look worse anyway lol the part I'm coping is that my 2060 Super is not good, it should be trash by now, it should be something so obsolete nobody is even looking at it and go like "oh that scores some wins", Turing is gonna be 6 years old soon, and 2060 super is the "good one" out of the "year late pricing"

All I'm asking of intel or amd is usable compute software, I'll take shit upscaling and encoding if i can just run the things i need with good vram amounts But intel does have good upscaling so it's looking like the winner (edited)

I expect Intel to do better there faster

2:20 AM

But if this is just a "Intel better improve so nvidia gets cheaper" moment, I'll laugh

why the fuck is my 2060 Super's still having Ws against AMD? Turing is contemporary to Ryzen 2000 on desktop

And the reason i shit on amd so much is that I'm mad because cuda has been a thing and basically the only solution for over 15 years and amd is still fucking about with a half baked half working solution that is not even feature complete when the stars align and it works

exio4

yeah, but the 6600 isn't Ampere, but my 2060S is a better product, still, I have tried the RX 6600 XT - my closest IRL friend got one

the encoder is trash for PCVR (this is gaming)
the GPU is e-waste at 4K gaming (FSR2 Performance? DLSS Performance? it's alright, XeSS Performance is like 20 fps so it is irrelevant)
Cyberpunk 2077 had better frames in raster but it felt sluggish as fuck on a side-by-side with Reflex enabled, and at 1440p it would look worse anyway lol the part I'm coping is that my 2060 Super is not good, it should be trash by now, it should be something so obsolete nobody is even looking at it and go like "oh that scores some wins", Turing is gonna be 6 years old soon, and 2060 super is the "good one" out of the "year late pricing"

AMF sucks, no way around that 4k on a 6600 is ridiculous, you don't do 4k on the 2060, i barely do 1440p on the 3060ti, keep it real Gotta wait and see if antilag+ fixes that, but i don't have much hope, reflex is just king for now

GoldenX86_64

But if this is just a "Intel better improve so nvidia gets cheaper" moment, I'll laugh

I mean, I'm still buying a product, intel's has to be either decent and a lot cheaper, or as good. If it's not as good and nvidia's is the same price then there's no reason to buy the inferior one

AMD had to get out of FX and then beat Xeon first Nvidia had no competition from anyone for a decade Intel literally did nothing in those 10 years

it's Bulldozer yet again, with "raster if you ignore input lag and image quality" as the new multithreading performance and I second @Egdarska because I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and near RDNA3's launch they just gave up? and management told the engineers to spend all of their time on fixing a broken architecture that wasn't ready? Anti-Lag+ was RDNA3 exclusive, 6600 doesn't get it, it's a cope I didn't say native 4K, DLSS Performance at 4K is perfectly viable, it only has a ~2.5ms budget so that leaves you to "getting to 70-75 fps at native 1080p to hit upscaled 4K"

GoldenX86_64

AMD had to get out of FX and then beat Xeon first Nvidia had no competition from anyone for a decade Intel literally did nothing in those 10 years

Wdym, intel made the gpus used by 90% of emulator users Based hd3000 (edited)

1

exio4

it's Bulldozer yet again, with "raster if you ignore input lag and image quality" as the new multithreading performance and I second @Egdarska because I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and near RDNA3's launch they just gave up? and management told the engineers to spend all of their time on fixing a broken architecture that wasn't ready? Anti-Lag+ was RDNA3 exclusive, 6600 doesn't get it, it's a cope I didn't say native 4K, DLSS Performance at 4K is perfectly viable, it only has a ~2.5ms budget so that leaves you to "getting to 70-75 fps at native 1080p to hit upscaled 4K"

You don't drive 4k with 6gb, you don't with 8 DLSS doesn't allow you to increase texture quality DLSS doesn't give you VRAM to fit RT if you previously couldn't

exio4

why the fuck is my 2060 Super's still having Ws against AMD? Turing is contemporary to Ryzen 2000 on desktop

Because Nvidia has the money, AMD doesn't, and Intel basically runs on reserves now

2:26 AM

You're fueling an incoming monopoly

I never got that argument, so people should use their money to buy inferior products because it's better for the market? It's like weebs saying we should buy the shitty localizations because otherwise we won't get the good ones later. (edited)

No, but just be aware of the outcome later

GoldenX86_64

You don't drive 4k with 6gb, you don't with 8 DLSS doesn't allow you to increase texture quality DLSS doesn't give you VRAM to fit RT if you previously couldn't

you play at 1080p, but upscale to 4K, don't run the game on ultra but medium/high and unless it's one of the broken ones it will be fine, and the issues will be worse on 8GB amd cards vs 8GB nvidia cards anyway I mentioned my gpu in particular, I'm not saying 8GB is good, it's mid at best, but my GPU is almost 4 years old, and the architecture is almost 6, why can't I get a card that truly replaces it from anybody but NVIDIA? they saw Tensor cores back in the Volta era - Volta is from 2017; they did listen, they put Tensor on CDNA, but they made a switchero and told consumers to fuck off with a Kepler 2.0

Geforce matters as much as what production H100 leaves free

2:29 AM

B100 will make it worse

exio4

you play at 1080p, but upscale to 4K, don't run the game on ultra but medium/high and unless it's one of the broken ones it will be fine, and the issues will be worse on 8GB amd cards vs 8GB nvidia cards anyway I mentioned my gpu in particular, I'm not saying 8GB is good, it's mid at best, but my GPU is almost 4 years old, and the architecture is almost 6, why can't I get a card that truly replaces it from anybody but NVIDIA? they saw Tensor cores back in the Volta era - Volta is from 2017; they did listen, they put Tensor on CDNA, but they made a switchero and told consumers to fuck off with a Kepler 2.0

And run 4k textures, not 1080p ones

that's cool, maybe by then they manage to beat the 3050

By then, the 5050 will be a 96 bit wide card with 8gb and cost 450 bucks, because dlss4 will do 8:1 interpolation

2:31 AM

Workloads will improve Gaming will continue to be meh

2:32 AM

If next round is even more tight for AIBs, EVGA/XFX moments will continue to happen

it's gonna be reprojection hopefully, like VR - in Virtual Reality all frames are fake, I'm fine embracing the post-raster world, some aren't, because they are confused about rendering techniques tho https://developer.oculus.com/blog/introducing-application-spacewarp/ this with NVIDIA magic and for PC games would be fire

Introducing Application SpaceWarp

Application SpaceWarp (AppSW) is a developer-driven optimization technology that can unlock extra computation power for suitable content. In our initial testing, Application SpaceWarp gave applications up to 70 percent additional compute, potentially with little to no perceptible artifacts.

Leaving buffer for the 1 minite limit

exio4

it's gonna be reprojection hopefully, like VR - in Virtual Reality all frames are fake, I'm fine embracing the post-raster world, some aren't, because they are confused about rendering techniques tho https://developer.oculus.com/blog/introducing-application-spacewarp/ this with NVIDIA magic and for PC games would be fire

As long as it isn't another Ada framegen cost of entry

2:33 AM

Tech is fine, prices are not

GoldenX86_64

As long as it isn't another Ada framegen cost of entry

frame gen is different, it adds a lot of input lag; reprojection is this basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvqrlgKuowE

Linus Tech Tips

I’m Embarrassed I Didn’t Think of This.. - Asynchronous Reprojectio...

Reprojection sounds awesome, but it better not be gatekeeped like framegen

2:34 AM

"Pay 600 bucks to not buy a downgrade GPU to use it" (edited)

it'll be gatekeeped for higher ratios, 100% lol, the reason games don't just do it is because it would look shit in a lot of situations

Then I'm not a fan

NVIDIA can "solve" that by throwing compute at the problem (haha Tensor go brr), and give skilled researchers and engineers the resources to cook some shit if they make their OFA engine much more capable, it'd help too - they could run it on Ada at a lower quality and ratio tho

Nvidia basically made the console market the king of budget gaming with this bullarse

2:37 AM

And that's the biggest L of the decade

GoldenX86_64

Then I'm not a fan

why? like, actually, why? - do you feel the same of Mesh Shaders, Pixel Shaders, Compute Shaders, Programmable GPUs? like, this is just tech advancing, they will likely gatekeep the higher ratios (hopefully lower ratios come to older cards) because you will need a shitton of compute

Igpus have mesh shaders

2:39 AM

But only the 4060 downgrade has "usable framegen" as per your definition

2:39 AM

And that's a nasty trend

not @Egdarska's iGPU actually, it doesn't, and most didn't until very recently, did you forget Vega doesn't do them? what, what do you mean by the 4060 downgrade thing (edited)

Your deck has mesh shaders

2:39 AM

It's 350 bucks

2:40 AM

If progress is gatekeeped beyond just asking for a new purchase, by also demanding a stupid price, I'm not a fan

2:41 AM

Vega allowed people to run games while Intel had gen9 graphics at least

2:41 AM

Vega could actually do blender

1

Uh

the price is because line must go up, that's capitalism doing its thing, in that case, you better hope I don't drink

Reminder Intel iGPUs can't do compute and rendering at the same time

exio4

the price is because line must go up, that's capitalism doing its thing, in that case, you better hope I don't drink

Capitalism good, got it

Most existing gpus can "do" blender, not all of them can offer a usable experience. I'd rather use my cpu than try to do viewport cycles with vega

Try gen9

2:43 AM

Imagine a fool with a dual core skylake trying to do blender

Vega shipped on (mostly?) ryzen cpus, and most of them had enough cores that they outperformed the GPU's shitty compute stack with AVX2 my sister's 4300U has worse blender performance on the iGPU vs the 4 non-hyperthreaded cores (edited)

Vs a ryzen with a vega

The point is the vega is wasted trying to do blender, you're better off just using the cpu (edited)

1

And it was still better than Intel with hd620, or nvidia with zero igpus

2:45 AM

My priority is the market, the entire market, not the 4090 buyers or the 4090 dreamers

My priority is buying something that works, and by this point i should have more than one option If all aligns maybe I'll have two in a couple years

(edited)

you won't buy enough AMD gpus to make them good, and buying an inferior product just fucks you first and foremost, you can check reddit and see AMD CPU engineers regret their XTX purchase lol

Right now, you have the 4060, which sucks and costs 50% of a PC The RDNA3 iGPUs And Xe2 Pick

2:47 AM

Ah yeah the budget is 400 bucks

2:47 AM

Buy new

if the budget is 400 bucks you don't have an RDNA3 IGP, you have Vega, it's shit lol (edited)

That's the market right now

exio4

if the budget is 400 bucks you don't have an RDNA3 IGP, you have Vega, it's shit lol (edited)

Am5 apus with zen4c

2:49 AM

Hell, the deck is still a better low end system than going Intel

2:49 AM

And nvidia dropped out of here, you better have money or eat 6gb scraps

2:52 AM

Plus, Vega still runs more games than Xe

2:52 AM

Windows or Linux

yeah this is all because NVIDIA has been too good at it, if they were worse like Intel was, then AMD could eventually recovering from their severe case of skill issue and we'll get good gpus after years of stagnation thankfully NVIDIA isn't intel and all gens have been massive leads in the non-raster side of things Turing was a massive leap forward for compute, and games eventually leveraged its feature set + Tensor was a huge finewine W, actually better purchase than a lot of GPUs at the time, a Pascal GPU offered "better value in GTA V", and look where that went - the RTX lineup only had the problem that Pascal was "too good" at obsolete tech, and improving these at the same pace was not viable with the balance they made 3060 Ti outperforms the 2080 Ti in almost all compute & RT (but Ampere was one of the worst generations ever made in like a decade with the VRAM stagnation - I was hyped for the 3070 16GB rumors, it put all of its "basket" on being good value for the people that explicitly buy off perf/$ charts, ignoring what you can do with it, and mining fucked that shit up so hard it was all copium) 4070 outperforms the 3090 in RT & tensor (and has new features, with a massive efficiency leap, and offers more VRAM across most of the stack)

And we pay the price of that progress with a shit low end

thankfully you always have the choice to buy a GPU architecturally worse than Turing on a budget! just like bulldozer back in the day

(edited)

When you're on a budget, fps wins

2:55 AM

You're not taking the place of the low end kid deciding between a PC and a console The console wins

2:55 AM

Oh look, nvidia is not there

2:57 AM

Only Nintendo is crazy enough to go for 10 years old nvidia waste and make it work

personally, after seeing DLSS at 1440p, I can't cope with AMD, modern DLSS Quality is good enough I want that level of performance per tier from AMD, to "match" raster, they need another tier to offer an actual perf/$ advantage

Ok, why is the 3050 6gb the example of that?

2:57 AM

They can do better than that

2:59 AM

It's literally more expensive than the 6600

no? get a used 2060 super - marketplace has lots of them for $170-220 here, it will be as efficient as rdna2 on raster and better than a lot of things, you don’t even have any major W on the lower end rdna2 cards because vram is the same, encoder is worse, you get afmf and av1 decoding exclusively

Used, no warranty

3:01 AM

Goalpost change

3:01 AM

If we're going used, you can find a mytical 3090 for 200 bucks

yeah well a working gpu is already not a thing going with amd, nvidia does the apple method- pick older gpus if you want value

That's a stretch and you know it

3:01 AM

New card is new

3:02 AM

You can find an used 3090 for 400 bucks Risk the mining damage it has on your own

it is, but you are defending practically buying a 6500 XT because the alternative is a 1030? just accept amd is bad at this lol

3:05 AM

yeah it sucks that the low end is trash, don’t buy there, or pick older stuff, or go alternative (console) - defending bad gpus because the alternative is mid is wild, both gpus there are trash, its like comparing pentiums with bulldozer chips, the real shit is neither of these, you are picking the expired meat that will make you the least sick

3:06 AM

mid range is kinda cooked, but a 4060 ti 16G for 430 is where the market starts rn imo

3:07 AM

hopefully for the next gen the “cheaper mid range” ada gpus becomes decently cheap

exio4

yeah it sucks that the low end is trash, don’t buy there, or pick older stuff, or go alternative (console) - defending bad gpus because the alternative is mid is wild, both gpus there are trash, its like comparing pentiums with bulldozer chips, the real shit is neither of these, you are picking the expired meat that will make you the least sick

Kind of a bad comparison, my fx could run every workload. Like shit but it could.

Egdarska

Kind of a bad comparison, my fx could run every workload. Like shit but it could.

yeah, it’s even worse than bulldozer, because i picked the bulldozer chip to do virtualization on the cheap… but saying bulldozer already gets me called a hater so i don’t wanna push it

You have an xe and need a gpu between those two 6500xt all the way, nvidia can shove their 1030 where in doesn't raster

3:14 AM

That's my point, most people are in that scenario

3:14 AM

Just don't be poor is the worst argument ever

No one said that, i specifically chose mine because it was discounted after the new laptops came out, the point is that regardless of whether it's a "better value", amd gpus are simply worse

Where is the nvidia igpu

amd for anything but pure rasterization is like Xe, that includes discord calls btw

And i shouldn't have to buy a worse product to help the small indie company make better gpus in the future

Egdarska

And i shouldn't have to buy a worse product to help the small indie company make better gpus in the future

small indie multi billion dollar company that apparently can’t hire enough engineers with work life balance getting worse year on year somehow

You don't have to, but nvidia doesn't cover the entire market AMD is always worse is a shill That means your can game with an uhd 770

3:17 AM

Do it

3:18 AM

I tried

GoldenX86_64

You don't have to, but nvidia doesn't cover the entire market AMD is always worse is a shill That means your can game with an uhd 770

I didn't say worse than intel igpus, that's something you came up with

exio4

amd for anything but pure rasterization is like Xe, that includes discord calls btw

This is one

for AI shit, cpus are faster than amd unless you specifically code shit for them and are explicitly memory bandwidth bound, for blender and encoding, ryzen is better than their igps (edited)

That's probably wrong, i doubt xe encoders are worse than amd's, so intel wins the discord call (edited)

Egdarska

That's probably wrong, i doubt xe encoders are worse than amd's, so intel wins the discord call (edited)

i fucked the wording like Xe for gaming

Ryzen is better than Vega for encoding, not RDNA3 Hip RT is better for blender than a quad core ryzen Again, you're stuck in the 1000 usd pc/laptop

GoldenX86_64

Ryzen is better than Vega for encoding, not RDNA3 Hip RT is better for blender than a quad core ryzen Again, you're stuck in the 1000 usd pc/laptop

Hiprt using what igpu? If you're arguing for budget then it's vega

exio4

i fucked the wording like Xe for gaming

meant to say if you do anything but raster, you want Xe - if you do raster, you want Radeon; meant to say that intel encoders are actually good, and their compute stack is improving, my bad there

Egdarska

Hiprt using what igpu? If you're arguing for budget then it's vega

Again, zen4c am5 apus

exio4

meant to say if you do anything but raster, you want Xe - if you do raster, you want Radeon; meant to say that intel encoders are actually good, and their compute stack is improving, my bad there

That's a real fact there

GoldenX86_64

Again, zen4c am5 apus

6500XT of combos, buying single channel DDR5 to make it work, also, i doubt it, my steamdeck was worse on the gpu when i tried it (right after i got it, it might have improved with drivers and the decks weird soc might not help) (edited)

But raster is still the king for gaming if you can't buy an rtx 4060ti 16gb

exio4

6500XT of combos, buying single channel DDR5 to make it work, also, i doubt it, my steamdeck was worse on the gpu when i tried it (right after i got it, it might have improved with drivers and the decks weird soc might not help) (edited)

I3 and 6500xt is a better deal for gaming But try encoding with an igpu and rendering with a dgpu that has no encoders, its useless for the discord call

it isn’t king anymore bro, all demanding games come with dlss now lol

And all games need medium textures if you don't have 12gb

3:26 AM

And medium textures look worse than console

3:26 AM

Meaning the 500 usd sony trash is better

that’s vram, not raster, did you mistype? and yes the consoles are better value than any low end amd gpus

You put the 4060ti 16gb as the starting point

3:27 AM

Anything under it sucks, thank you Nvidia gave the low end market to consoles, the worst L of the decade

amd cant do compute, so any non gaming workload is not really worth mentioning, a 1660 ti is gonna outperform amd on the low end because it runs, and i mentioned it for “no (major) compromises pcs”

And lacks dlss, the 1660 is a worse gaming card than a 6600, and it's stuck to fsr

yeah i don’t like it, i mention it for comedic effect, although xess should run decently on it vs rdna2 iirc

Tested it, sucks on both

3:30 AM

The % loss is higher on the 6600, but it still outperforms the 1660 super

Exio's going to hate this but if you're really strapped for money and need blender a pascal is a better value than nvidia's low end or amd. Get mad bro (edited)

Truth

3:31 AM

In the end an used 1070 wins

Egdarska

Exio's going to hate this but if you're really strapped for money and need blender a pascal is a better value than nvidia's low end or amd. Get mad bro (edited)

nah it’s legit i don’t mind pascal like i said, its the 1080 ti is relevant for gaming crowd that i hate

8gb, blender, encoding, low price, driver support

3:31 AM

Pascal just doesn't fucking die

3:32 AM

But yeah 100% with exio, the 1080ti forever gang is a fool

exio4

nah it’s legit i don’t mind pascal like i said, its the 1080 ti is relevant for gaming crowd that i hate

My bro suffering with a 1080 non-ti trying to play new games But at least ghost recon runs good tho (edited)

it does, with fp16, or mesh shaders, or llms

Or async compute or... But it's still a better deal

3:33 AM

Nvidia must hate pascal

1080 ti, the mistake they swore to never make again

my 2060 super still does 4 times the tokens per second on small llms vs a 6900 XT kek

Cuda is no joke

3:34 AM

15 years of consistent progress pay

3:35 AM

How will Intel tackle that?

3:35 AM

With XMX?

i am tensor dependent rn, can’t go to a gpu that doesn’t have them cuz its a downgrade, i cope about this because i want choice and it doesn’t exist, i would have a worse experience with an XTX - know multiple people that upgraded to Ada from an XTX aka RDNA3

Speaking of llama and blender Are there benches of xdna?

3:36 AM

I wanna see pro vega

yes, but no - there are some but only the ones in amds repository, because nothing else uses it to this day (practically)

GoldenX86_64

15 years of consistent progress pay

More like 10 years of slow progress and then insane gains for 5

exio4

yes, but no - there are some but only the ones in amds repository, because nothing else uses it to this day (practically)

Kek

Egdarska

More like 10 years of slow progress and then insane gains for 5

Nah, cuda improved gradually, the pro market has been on cuda since the gtx 8800

3:37 AM

Optix is not a result of the ai boom

GoldenX86_64

Kek

it’s basically useless silicon for now, complain about raytracing cores™️ on lower end gpus but at least blender will use them on a 3050

The performance per cuda core jumped massively with maxwell and got insane with pascal, it wasn't very gradual for all those years (edited)

And that marks the beginning of the end of geforce

3:39 AM

Thankfully no switch game used cuda for physics, emulate that on amd or intel (edited)

Damn, now i want to see an igpu trying to emulate witcher 3 with hairworks

it isn’t the end, its when i started caring because i couldn’t justify spending hundreds of dollars on gaming alone, and for raster i will keep upscaling until its useless kek

3:41 AM

i played at 640x480 and 30 fps, its fine, but the games booted, amd doesn’t even run compute shit; link golden the alienware review @Egdarska lol

Though hairworks is actually just hair cards, but tessellated. The smoke simulations in the arkham game would be better

Wonder if the switch arkham games use the cpu smoke

3:43 AM

Ohh ps5 pro may use an xdna2 npus

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-7900M-performance-debut-Alienware-m18-R1-laptop-review.771237.0.html you mean the laptop with the discontinued gpu that couldn't run the tests for review?

AMD Radeon RX 7900M performance debut: Alienware m18 R1 laptop review

AMD knocked it out of the park with its Ryzen series of mobile CPUs, but there's no question that its discrete mobile GPUs have been falling behind. The Radeon RX 7900M rights the ship by being just as powerful as the mobile RTX 4080 for hundreds of dollars less.

Wonder what will sony do with it

Egdarska

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-7900M-performance-debut-Alienware-m18-R1-laptop-review.771237.0.html you mean the laptop with the discontinued gpu that couldn't run the tests for review?

yes, the amd experience laptop

Imagine buying a huge dgpu on a laptop and it's not nvidia

GoldenX86_64

Wonder if the switch arkham games use the cpu smoke

They use the default previous gen billboard smoke, but lower quality All three of those ports are just so fucking awful (edited)

1

3:46 AM

Arkham city ran fine-ish on wii u, how did they fuck up so bad?

Kek

3:46 AM

Switch ports get the interns

good night tho, i need to dlss my sleep schedule

2

Yeah, the wii u even got its own special arkham city edition. Which was mostly just a few suits but still, the game had care.

Doom and witcher still look fugly

Witcher looks bad enough that i wouldn't want that to be my experience, but it's still a very impressive port. Doom doesn't even look that bad to me, it's mostly just lower quality everything. (edited)

2

i unironically miss 8.1

4:13 AM

bro this windows 11 update was so amazing, it moved the copilot icon on the taskbar from the left to the right, amazing stuff

i wouldn't know i already disabled it

4:16 AM

my windows 11 is just windows 10 but it takes about 1.5s for explorer to finish painting

lel

W11 moment

W11 stinky

can i5's on a laptop run new games pretty okay if your other specs are good?

Egdarska

bro this windows 11 update was so amazing, it moved the copilot icon on the taskbar from the left to the right, amazing stuff

nah 24h2 has dithering on SDR

rip

1

The year will be 2030, i play games at 360p24 but only the gbuffer is rendered at that resolution, it is then upscaled, denoised and reprojected to 1080p120, the visuals are also using AI tuned, GPU driven stylistic filters and post-raster geometry decompression that somehow run ok, DLSS uses high frame rate motion vectors and predictive modelling to reduce input latency in the frame gen pipeline. NVidia just launched DLSS Meshlets 2 years prior, a tensor driven software rasterizer that makes Nanite obsolete and games not only look better in IQ, but also in straight up better LODs. AMD rereleases Anti-Lag+ for the 5th time, after users got banned on the latest CoD, and once again jebaits Nvidia by changing the pricing of their latest $500 GPU by $75, 5 days after review embargo and 2 days before sales launch.

1

Oh the things I get to read when I can't sleep

meow @deadlybydsgn

We did a "sleepover" with our kids, which meant I went to bed at like 9:30 PM. That's probably why I've been up since 5. (an hour ago) We do that sometimes because our kids like to ask to sleep in our beds, and we're usually smart enough to say no. We give in every once in a while, like tonight

that's cute

It was until I woke up at 5 and started scheduling email campaigns for work. Now I'm just looking up obscure stuff like how to fix my Ship of Harkinian save file to actually have Epona in the OoT native PC port (edited)

1

wack

I tried windows 11 on my friends laptop today. Ngl its not that bad

but It IS bad (edited)

Yeah, I want to stick with Windows 10 but it'll practically die in a year and a half. I guess I'll just jump to Linux when that happens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MhRZp2uunc

Mrwhosetheboss

Apple Vision Pro Review - Why does this EXIST?

oh no

“MrWhoseTheBoss” and he looks nothing like Tony Danza

Looking to get a new monitor for a new rigg. Anyone suggest a 27' 4k 1440?

https://vxtwitter.com/RajaXg/status/1758935199508046247 this is why tensor™️ is sick

Twitter

Raja Koduri (@RajaXg)

GPU Flops-per-byte went crazy over the years. It's even more insane if you plot this for interconnect (PCIE, NVLink, XeLink etc) bandwidth We were close to 1:1 when the first floating point shaders were introduced in 2002 on Radeon 9700 Pro. Re-balancing flops/byte to more…

358

54

probably also had the first petaflop GPU in my palm

How well would a laptop with a i5 10300h, 1660 ti, and 16gb of ram run yuzu?Totk specifically.

Found this thought it was an interesting find kek

godpow

Found this thought it was an interesting find kek

Wonder how much fps i can get on it I need some vram (edited)

godpow

Found this thought it was an interesting find kek

Need to strap some spinny boys to the front intake first

how do i play with my friends on mario kart by creatinga room on yuzu? im trying to get a main connection going but my friend just ends up disconnecting they join but gets kicked out shortly after (edited)

https://www.techspot.com/news/102104-windows-11-now-supports-usb4-80gbs.html what's wrong with the USB-IF people

Windows 11 now supports USB4 at 80Gbps, also known as USB4 2.0

With the latest public update, Windows 11 has gained support for USB4 connections at 80Gbps, also known as USB4 2.0. The upgrade comes with OS builds 22621.3235...

5:03 AM

USB420 are you fucking kidding me

blaze it can't wait for usb4 2.2x2 (edited)

Let's go

Based USB-IF

that asymmetric download/upload thing is cool tho

LPhin

https://www.techspot.com/news/102104-windows-11-now-supports-usb4-80gbs.html what's wrong with the USB-IF people

again this shit is why i just say them by "generation" and speed if applicable USB2 is USB2, duh USB 3.2 Gen 1 is "USB3 5Gbps" USB 3.2 Gen 2 is "USB3 10Gbps" USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (as well as base spec USB4) is "USB3 20Gbps" USB4 "1.0" is "USB4" or "USB4 40Gbps" and the new USB4 2.0 is "USB4 80Gbps" alternatively, the last two can be "Thunderbolt if it were lame" edit: this (small clarity edit: personal rule of mine) also now applies to HDMI, but weirdly inverse. HDMI 2.1 18Gbps is "HDMI 2.0", and HDMI 2.1(a) 48Gbps is "HDMI 2.1" (edited)

if you look at the picture that's what they want you to do now too

5:21 AM

LPhin

if you look at the picture that's what they want you to do now too

i didnt look at da image admittedly but honestly with how much HDMI and USB has fucked up naming schemes i wont be surprised if they come up with something weirder by next week

i too like forming opinions without reading

Egdarska

blaze it can't wait for usb4 2.2x2 (edited)

The ants go marching 2x2x2

lol, that paid ubuntu windows thing Wish you could have the jankiness of linux but worried you will miss paying and having your data stolen? wubuntu is for you.

LPhin

https://www.techspot.com/news/102104-windows-11-now-supports-usb4-80gbs.html what's wrong with the USB-IF people

full speed 4090 egpu prometheus

@LukeTheVideoGamer I will continue here, make sure you have the proprietary nvidia drivers installed, and when you installed steam that you selected nvidia-utils.

@exio4 you awake? i need to know why re8 has a separate reflection and light reflection setting I just called the steamdeck shit and you didn't appear so i guess you're not here (edited)

Samueru

@LukeTheVideoGamer I will continue here, make sure you have the proprietary nvidia drivers installed, and when you installed steam that you selected nvidia-utils.

i've made absolutely certain. for some reason one of the semi-custom drivers i used (via an app made by the same guy who manages the github page for tkg patches) failed to do anything with vulkan, and in fact i think it failed to load at all, defaulting back to nouveau, so i reinstalled the default drivers, with the nvidia-open-dkms aur package for that sweet sweet open source kernel modules.

@Samueru would that new nvk thing help in this case? idk enough about linux but apparently the vulkan mesa driver is stable now?

I don't think you needed to use an aur pacakge to get dkms unless you're trying to use the open source drivers

i am trying to use the open source variant of the drivers yeah. if i just wanted regular nvidia i woulda just did nvidia-dkms (either way, i have chaotic-aur set up so)

LukeTheVideoGamer

i am trying to use the open source variant of the drivers yeah. if i just wanted regular nvidia i woulda just did nvidia-dkms (either way, i have chaotic-aur set up so)

Oh well, good luck with that, the NVK drivers have gotten very good, but if not even proton is launching I might as well try with the proprietary to discard the issue. Also the GPU has to be turing or newer if you are trying to use nvk btw. @Egdarska I think this awnsers your questions as well. (edited)

Samueru

Oh well, good luck with that, the NVK drivers have gotten very good, but if not even proton is launching I might as well try with the proprietary to discard the issue. Also the GPU has to be turing or newer if you are trying to use nvk btw. @Egdarska I think this awnsers your questions as well. (edited)

They have a 1650, it's fine.

oh i dont mean NVK lmao i mean specifically the nvidia-open-dkms drivers, theyre the proprietary drivers with the Turing & up open-source kernel modules

1

Ok, either way, when I used pascal I just did pacman -S nvidia and that was it, didn't even need to use dkms for proton to work.

Just buy that scam windows ubuntu distro

im using a linux-tkg-bmq kernel so DKMS is a little bit of a must for things like networking and graphics

LukeTheVideoGamer

im using a linux-tkg-bmq kernel so DKMS is a little bit of a must for things like networking and graphics

The what kernel? xd

https://github.com/Frogging-Family/linux-tkg these fancy things

GitHub - Frogging-Family/linux-tkg: linux-tkg custom kernels

linux-tkg custom kernels. Contribute to Frogging-Family/linux-tkg development by creating an account on GitHub.

Like I know about linux-zen, hardened and iirc cachyos also has its own kernel with a different cpu scheduler, first time ever I heard tkg-bmq lol

Samueru

Like I know about linux-zen, hardened and iirc cachyos also has its own kernel with a different cpu scheduler, first time ever I heard tkg-bmq lol

maybe it's because of the cpu? it's a 6300 I never tried linux on an fx, it was after my linux time (edited)

that's my thoughts too, but in other situations, like, say, yuzu, i've actually seen better performance due to lower CPU utilization under linux

1

But yeah, i'm guessing fx needs all the cpu scheduling help it can get

Egdarska

But yeah, i'm guessing fx needs all the cpu scheduling help it can get

You usually just need to use gamemode which sets the cpu scheduler to performance and that is it, you also can change the vm map count in sysctl without needing to use linux-zen or other kernels.

Might be time to just reinstall lol

Nah you don't need to reinstall, you can even have different kernels and boot with each different one.

OOOOOOHHHHHH PROGRESS

can it run crysis?

Btw make sure you have mitigations=off with an FX cpu!!!

Egdarska

can it run crysis?

i dont own crysis @Samueru wait i can do that?! does it have to be in the kernel...

Samueru

Btw make sure you have mitigations=off with an FX cpu!!!

wut, do mitigations have a performance impact on linux?

LukeTheVideoGamer

i dont own crysis @Samueru wait i can do that?! does it have to be in the kernel...

Just a kernel parameter, it disables the specter meltdown patches which do hurt performance on older cpus.

I saw the "up to 14% performance impact" but never saw an actual game where it mattered, for fx intel tho (edited)

Egdarska

wut, do mitigations have a performance impact on linux?

IIrc on zen 2 and older it does, there's plenty of benchmarks on that. With newer cpus it actually hurts performance now.

Samueru

Just a kernel parameter, it disables the specter meltdown patches which do hurt performance on older cpus.

ah... another kernel parameter.......... fun..................... it's totally easy to do and understand naosmiley

LukeTheVideoGamer

ah... another kernel parameter.......... fun..................... it's totally easy to do and understand naosmiley

If you used systemd-boot just add mitigations=off to /boot/loader/entries/<nameofentryhere> where it says options in the .conf file

... thank god i chose systemd-boot when i installed this hunk of junk os.

And to make sure that the kernel parameters are working, do a cat /proc/cmdline after booting, you should see them.

# oh okay then

TIme to read the fine manual: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Improving_performance Also you don't need to use sudo to do an ls, but you may need to do an ls -a to show hidden files.

Improving performance

Egdarska

@exio4 you awake? i need to know why re8 has a separate reflection and light reflection setting I just called the steamdeck shit and you didn't appear so i guess you're not here (edited)

i was sleeping yes

Samueru

TIme to read the fine manual: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Improving_performance Also you don't need to use sudo to do an ls, but you may need to do an ls -a to show hidden files.

"you dont need to use sudo to do an ls" not the case here i guess

LukeTheVideoGamer

"you dont need to use sudo to do an ls" not the case here i guess

exio4

i was sleeping yes

i woke up late as fuck, at 8pm

day off Next week i'm gonna work both weekend days. (edited)

Samueru

Click to see attachment 🖼️

oh that is so strange. i guess its an endeavourOS thing???????? or maybe not idk lmao

But yeah, re8 has a "GI and reflection" setting, and also a light reflection setting, but the first one doesn't seem to affect reflections on most surfaces at all, but lowering it does reduce the quality of metal reflections (edited)

found it!!!! it was put inside /efi/loader/entries for me instead of in /boot/.. like yours (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

oh that is so strange. i guess its an endeavourOS thing???????? or maybe not idk lmao

First time ever I see that you need sudo rights to read system files lol.

and setting it to medium or high has a huge performance impact for very little change aside from metals, the actual GI looks the same, so i'm just gonna cope with low GI and medium reflection I took screenshots of every combination in case anyone has the same brain issues as me (edited)

Egdarska

But yeah, re8 has a "GI and reflection" setting, and also a light reflection setting, but the first one doesn't seem to affect reflections on most surfaces at all, but lowering it does reduce the quality of metal reflections (edited)

i just woke up i think this is my cue to go to sleep; I assume its a samples bias/count/how much roughness affects samples or something thing? it sounds interesting to check out

Samueru

First time ever I see that you need sudo rights to read system files lol.

it's only for the /efi directory (so far that i have tested at least) so eh it's no big deal. plus, it's a good safety measure either way, in case a user accidentally bungs up their boot entries or worse not even being able to see in it is a tradeoff im willing to accept for better protection of actually being able to get into my system consistently (edited)

8:18 AM

anyway i wrote the whole mitigations=off thing into my tkg conf file... reboot time?

exio4

i just woke up i think this is my cue to go to sleep; I assume its a samples bias/count/how much roughness affects samples or something thing? it sounds interesting to check out

maybe, GI by itself doesn't have the huge performance impact, only when reflections are also high, but reflections by themselves don't have that impact

LukeTheVideoGamer

it's only for the /efi directory (so far that i have tested at least) so eh it's no big deal. plus, it's a good safety measure either way, in case a user accidentally bungs up their boot entries or worse not even being able to see in it is a tradeoff im willing to accept for better protection of actually being able to get into my system consistently (edited)

I can read my /boot/EFI just fine, I don't see what security that brings, it might a problem if you could write to it without sudo wrights, but reading is another thing. And yes reboot.

Egdarska

maybe, GI by itself doesn't have the huge performance impact, only when reflections are also high, but reflections by themselves don't have that impact

GI is one of the best RT effects because low sample counts look decent

8:20 AM

reflections need a fuckton, RT GI should just be standard now, bvh complexity / cpu usage / amd gpus being the biggest bottleneck, even Turing can do good enough GI

i won't post all 9 but you can get an idea with this

that's concerning :)

you can see some difference on the candelabra but not enough to justify almost 30% performance loss

LukeTheVideoGamer

that's concerning :)

What is sdc2?

Egdarska

you can see some difference on the candelabra but not enough to justify almost 30% performance loss

high quality RT reflections need Ada to be worth it, we aint got that RT grunt

1

Samueru

What is sdc2?

my external 2TB NTFS hard drive

Just the improved lighting is worth it anyway, the biggest issue is that ssr is completely disabled if you enable RT, but it's so shitty that might be a plus. No rt for comparison, ignore the corruption at the top.

8:27 AM

Forgot the one with all rt at low.

LukeTheVideoGamer

my external 2TB NTFS hard drive

Hopefully you are not using NTFS to store important data without backup, it needs constant disk checks on boot. (Also I think you need to install ntfs-3g)

which dlss input res?

exio4

which dlss input res?

Quality, so 720p @LukeTheVideoGamer bruh i hope you're not using ntfs with linux

Just today I tried to transfer a game to another PC using a NTFS drive as the medium, one file got corrupted during the transfer somehow.

Egdarska

Quality, so 720p @LukeTheVideoGamer bruh i hope you're not using ntfs with linux

fellow 720p player

Samueru

Hopefully you are not using NTFS to store important data without backup, it needs constant disk checks on boot. (Also I think you need to install ntfs-3g)

do you consider a fuckton of anime and games to be important data? i legit only use it for games and anime and occasionally things like screen capture, and all under windows, i barely touch it in linux. also, ntfs-3g is already installed...

Samueru

Just today I tried to transfer a game to another PC using a NTFS drive as the medium, one file got corrupted during the transfer somehow.

"somehow" kek

1

Egdarska

"somehow" kek

I have no idea why this happens, and back when I was using windows several files from my music library got corrupted without warning.

ntfs is mid and microsoft should be ashamed of still using it tbh

2

Samueru

I have no idea why this happens, and back when I was using windows several files from my music library got corrupted without warning.

yeah, that's ntfs, i made the mistake of using ntfs for my wii external drive so i wouldn't have to use split files

Omg you wanna know something, I once came very close from losing all my saved pictures from two backupts I had years ago. It fucking saved me that the repair thing on windows actually saved one of the backups holy shit.

exio4

ntfs is mid and microsoft should be ashamed of still using it tbh

NTFS was "alright" back in like 1996 when it was introduced, but in 2024??? come on, there are far better ways of going about with filesystems than whatever the hell NTFS is.

exio4

fellow 720p player

Some things look worse with dlaa for some reason. Like the edges on the walls and some object outlines. (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

NTFS was "alright" back in like 1996 when it was introduced, but in 2024??? come on, there are far better ways of going about with filesystems than whatever the hell NTFS is.

was it alright tho

exio4

was it alright tho

better than fat32 lol

Egdarska

Some things look worse with dlaa for some reason. Like the edges on the walls and some object outlines. (edited)

i’m on my phone and without glassesrn so you can send dlss performance and itll look the same, can you zoom in or something like that

Samueru

better than fat32 lol

We need to start using "less bad" instead of better for some situations

1

1

my phones battery went down 17% over 8 hours, idling - truly sad tbh

exio4

my phones battery went down 17% over 8 hours, idling - truly sad tbh

Get an android phone without googleplay services if you want long idle times lol

Samueru

Get an android phone without googleplay services if you want long idle times lol

no bestie, i actually want more background services because it would be 19% and do 3x more things

exio4

i’m on my phone and without glassesrn so you can send dlss performance and itll look the same, can you zoom in or something like that

Don't know if this is the best example

okay so, after doing a ton of BULLSHIT. i have finally got proton working in at least two games: Crumble and Bayonetta. turns out, NTFS and exFAT (Crumble was exFAT, Bayonetta was NTFS) are bad filesystems for Proton in linux who woulda thought moving them to the internal ext4 formatted drive and verifying their files got them working

LukeTheVideoGamer

okay so, after doing a ton of BULLSHIT. i have finally got proton working in at least two games: Crumble and Bayonetta. turns out, NTFS and exFAT (Crumble was exFAT, Bayonetta was NTFS) are bad filesystems for Proton in linux who woulda thought moving them to the internal ext4 formatted drive and verifying their files got them working

Oh I think what happened is that iirc by default NTFS drives are mounted with the noexec flag in linux, which prevents running executables on them.

Egdarska

Don't know if this is the best example

left is dlaa?

I don't know if that's visible in the zoom in, but the lines with dlss look smoother at normal zoom, the ones with dlaa seem aliased for some reason. But overall the details look obviously higher res with dlaa. @exio4 yeah (edited)

what the hell is said it would be left because you said worse, didn’t expect it to be that aliased

Samueru

Oh I think what happened is that iirc by default NTFS drives are mounted with the noexec flag in linux, which prevents running executables on them.

really? that's strange, since P4G at least launched the executable, even if it immediately crashed, and Sonic Origins... seemed to be doing something in the background? and both were on the NTFS drive. anyway i think i learned a lesson here: just use btrfs. (edited)

exio4

what the hell is said it would be left because you said worse, didn’t expect it to be that aliased

yeah, it's really weird. Keep in mind it's dlss modded into the game, so it's going to have downsides, but it's weird that dlss looks better in some instances

wine doesn’t need the exec flag to run things, it vibes on its own like an interpreter

LukeTheVideoGamer

really? that's strange, since P4G at least launched the executable, even if it immediately crashed, and Sonic Origins... seemed to be doing something in the background? and both were on the NTFS drive. anyway i think i learned a lesson here: just use btrfs. (edited)

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/wiki/Using-a-NTFS-disk-with-Linux-and-Windows (It something along those lines, I very quickly learned that using ntfs on linux was going to be a nightmare years ago so never bothered to check why)

Using a NTFS disk with Linux and Windows

Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components - ValveSoftware/Proton

I've just resigned myself to the fact that REngine games will have amazing visuals that will have some weird flaw fucking them up so i'll just cope

Egdarska

yeah, it's really weird. Keep in mind it's dlss modded into the game, so it's going to have downsides, but it's weird that dlss looks better in some instances

oh it’s modded, it might be that the game never expected a native resolution upscaler from there so the post processing breaks havoc, afaik dlss/dlaa have a heavy post processing step that is where a lot of the magic happens

exio4

oh it’s modded, it might be that the game never expected a native resolution upscaler from there so the post processing breaks havoc, afaik dlss/dlaa have a heavy post processing step that is where a lot of the magic happens

apparently REngine games need a flag for dlaa to work correctly but i can't figure out how to use dlsstweaks with the mod so i can't do anything You basically need to set the resolution to 1 pixel less or something It still looks miles better than native either way (edited)

Egdarska

"somehow" kek

Another funny thing that happened was that windows wasn't reading the hard drive when connected on the sata port, I could see the drive on the bios but nothing would show on windows, not even in the partitions tool they had built in. Had to plug in the ntfs drive with an usb adapter for it to be read lol

Samueru

Another funny thing that happened was that windows wasn't reading the hard drive when connected on the sata port, I could see the drive on the bios but nothing would show on windows, not even in the partitions tool they had built in. Had to plug in the ntfs drive with an usb adapter for it to be read lol

That's still an issue to this day. My controller stopped being recognized on one usb port, i need to use a different one. The port still works, it just won't accept the controller. And actually, it stopped working after the update thonking

(edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

really? that's strange, since P4G at least launched the executable, even if it immediately crashed, and Sonic Origins... seemed to be doing something in the background? and both were on the NTFS drive. anyway i think i learned a lesson here: just use btrfs. (edited)

If you will use Btrfs for your install make sure your distro correctly setups the Btrfs subvolumes, Arch with archinstall does it, but I don't know if distros like endevour with the calamares installer do that, I know voidlinux doesn't even bother to make a single subvolume lol.

Egdarska

That's still an issue to this day. My controller stopped being recognized on one usb port, i need to use a different one. The port still works, it just won't accept the controller. And actually, it stopped working after the update thonking

(edited)

I thought you said that windows 11 was going perfect on your end.

Samueru

I thought you said that windows 11 was going perfect on your end.

Lol, it fixed itself, I think it just needed a full restart. But i never said perfect, just no major issues, I still hate that the rounded corners come back after every update.

Egdarska

Lol, it fixed itself, I think it just needed a full restart. But i never said perfect, just no major issues, I still hate that the rounded corners come back after every update.

tbh usb issues are also common in linux, though you usually can issue a command to reset all ports and that gets rid of having to unplug and plug them back in.

Samueru

If you will use Btrfs for your install make sure your distro correctly setups the Btrfs subvolumes, Arch with archinstall does it, but I don't know if distros like endevour with the calamares installer do that, I know voidlinux doesn't even bother to make a single subvolume lol.

Endeavour could do BTRFS in Calamares... but only if i subsumed a partition to be Endeavour'd, and i didn't feel like redownloading all 170GB of Baldur's Gate 3 just for the convenience of BTRFS, and i sure as hell wasnt gonna try to wrap my head around manually partitioning properly when i was setting it up at 12am, so i just said "fuck it, cut the drive in half" which made it install eOS to an ext4 formatted partition

Samueru

tbh usb issues are also common in linux, though you usually can issue a command to reset all ports and that gets rid of having to unplug and plug them back in.

I don't think you can do that easily in windows. Best you can do is disable the usb controller and re-enable it, and hope it actually re-enables itself without needing to reboot

(edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

Endeavour could do BTRFS in Calamares... but only if i subsumed a partition to be Endeavour'd, and i didn't feel like redownloading all 170GB of Baldur's Gate 3 just for the convenience of BTRFS, and i sure as hell wasnt gonna try to wrap my head around manually partitioning properly when i was setting it up at 12am, so i just said "fuck it, cut the drive in half" which made it install eOS to an ext4 formatted partition

Yeah but it needs to make the right subvolumes in the fstab to be able to use all the btrfs features. That's what I don't know.

i mean... now that i have this partition set up, i guess i could reinstall endeavourOS and see? it really wouldnt be that big of a deal, the endeavourOS installer has a boot option for NVIDIA drivers and it installs the proprietary ones by default. i'd really only need to re-setup my browser, discord, yuzu and ryujinx, and Steam and then i'd be back to where i am now. (edited)

also @exio4 did i tell you our current software's database is so fubar we have to input all the patient data manually? We told them bro, we told them years ago this would be an issue. And they want to try to move over all the appointment data in 2 days lol, I'd be surprised if it only takes 2 weeks of full time working by 50 people. (edited)

9:00 AM

You can immediately tell when something was written by a higher up vs someone who knows what they're talking about.

Samueru

tbh usb issues are also common in linux, though you usually can issue a command to reset all ports and that gets rid of having to unplug and plug them back in.

every platform has USB issues, AMD had dropouts, every other vendor has its own quirks too, like Apple's controller supports 10 Gbps (over a single lane) or 5 Gbps (over a single lane), but not 2x5 or 2x10, so 10 Gbps (over 2 lanes) is not implemented, but it does support 40 Gbps w/ USB4/Thunderbolt

that new usb asymmetrical d/u thing looks cool, if it can be switched on the fly and not hardwired to be 120/40

Egdarska

also @exio4 did i tell you our current software's database is so fubar we have to input all the patient data manually? We told them bro, we told them years ago this would be an issue. And they want to try to move over all the appointment data in 2 days lol, I'd be surprised if it only takes 2 weeks of full time working by 50 people. (edited)

yea but not the deadline, lol they are insane if they think you can do data input this way that dast lol

LukeTheVideoGamer

i mean... now that i have this partition set up, i guess i could reinstall endeavourOS and see? it really wouldnt be that big of a deal, the endeavourOS installer has a boot option for NVIDIA drivers and it installs the proprietary ones by default. i'd really only need to re-setup my browser, discord, yuzu and ryujinx, and Steam and then i'd be back to where i am now. (edited)

In Btrfs you don't really have a /. / is in fact a top level subvolume called @. On the real / of Btrfs you have @ where all the top level system dirs are located. You also usually have @HOME which gets mounted on /@/home, hopefully that explains it better. Because when you make an snapshot in Btrfs, it makes a deduplicated copy of the top level subvolume to another top level subvolume, if the installer doesn't set that up, you won't be able to make the snapshots kek If want to experiment go ahead, I find it entertaining to play with Btrfs.

exio4

every platform has USB issues, AMD had dropouts, every other vendor has its own quirks too, like Apple's controller supports 10 Gbps (over a single lane) or 5 Gbps (over a single lane), but not 2x5 or 2x10, so 10 Gbps (over 2 lanes) is not implemented, but it does support 40 Gbps w/ USB4/Thunderbolt

Windows is the only platform without USB issues /s

also, i was playing fruit ninja the fov does make the game worse for real wtf

exio4

yea but not the deadline, lol they are insane if they think you can do data input this way that dast lol

The 2 days is just for the scheduled appointments, not the full patient data, but that's still insane. Specially considering most people doing it have never even seen the new software, they got a 1 hour training to learn the basics of how they will input the data, and will get an additional hour training before we start. Even with perfectly trained employees, those 2 days would be insane, now take into account that not everyone who is doing it can type and read fast, and they're also unfamiliar with the software.

Samueru

In Btrfs you don't really have a /. / is in fact a top level subvolume called @. On the real / of Btrfs you have @ where all the top level system dirs are located. You also usually have @HOME which gets mounted on /@/home, hopefully that explains it better. Because when you make an snapshot in Btrfs, it makes a deduplicated copy of the top level subvolume to another top level subvolume, if the installer doesn't set that up, you won't be able to make the snapshots kek If want to experiment go ahead, I find it entertaining to play with Btrfs.

yeahhhhhh i dont understand that, but it sounds cool, and useful

LukeTheVideoGamer

yeahhhhhh i dont understand that, but it sounds cool, and useful

This is how the fstab should look after install (ignore the tmp files to ram and below that is something I did) (Also the noatime and compression was something I changed as well, but that is easy afterwards)

i see!

You see / is the subvol @, home is the subvol @home, etc. I usually don't take snapshots of my @home and only the @. To make the snaphosts I just use timeshift which is a GUI tool that supports Btrfs.

i want a nas just for time machine rn

I want a nas for steam games

i want a nas just. general purpose. movies. games. backups. (edited)

If I ever get a nas it has to be something very efficient, because that nas will be running from the off grid setup I have (yeah I'm sounding like exio).

9:12 AM

Like idle power draw should be 10W or less for the nas.

that'll be tough, because hard drives use a lot of power

how much power does a hard drive typically draw? like, 7W?

exio4

that'll be tough, because hard drives use a lot of power

They should turn off at idle though. @LukeTheVideoGamer for 2.5 inch sata drives it is usually less than 5W running. (edited)

Samueru

Like idle power draw should be 10W or less for the nas.

Can't you have it sleep and wake it up when you need it over the network?

Egdarska

Can't you have it sleep and wake it up when you need it over the network?

No idea

I wish apple had an apple tv nas accessory they already let you buy an A15 soc that uses phone tier power consumption, that will be connected to the network, let me also buy a NAS box or something with a funny port and add some storage (edited)

I guess if you use it for general storage and need it all the time you need good idle power draw, but for backups that you don't need all day then sleep would be fine.

Also do games run fine off a nas? like I would be limited to the gigabit speed of my ethernet port.

9:24 AM

If people are running the steamdeck with an sd card it should be fine though.

I meant keeping games so i could transfer them to my laptop without redownloading, not playing off them. Though i guess it would be better than playing on a hdd

no, they won't run fine (too slow & random performance will be trash) yes, they will run fine (they are games you could run off an crappy SD card) assuming you use ssds on the nas, if it's hard drives i'd say YMMV

exio4

no, they won't run fine (too slow & random performance will be trash) yes, they will run fine (they are games you could run off an crappy SD card) assuming you use ssds on the nas, if it's hard drives i'd say YMMV

Yeah I thought about the sd card, it should be fine for some games. I may also go with sata ssds to reduce the idle power draw.

Samueru

If people are running the steamdeck with an sd card it should be fine though.

keep in mind the steamdeck g*mers play games off the sd card with low textures, and crappy settings that reduce the streaming load (edited)

9:27 AM

I can't play Forza Horizon 5 on my desktop at 120 fps w/ the highest textures & lod settings ... off my external NVMe SSD (with over 10 Gbps USB3.1) because it has streaming issues

I remember I played GTA V with an HDD, that shit was horrible, you could not drive fast on the map lol

reinstalling endeavour with btrfs, will check what the fstab looks like once booted into the damn install

1

Samueru

I remember I played GTA V with an HDD, that shit was horrible, you could not drive fast on the map lol

yea forza had the same issue, anything happening on the ssd would cause streaming issues and freeze the game for a split second - after driving for 2-3 seconds on untextured geometry

Damn, I kinda wanna play modern games without textures. Both for the lulz and because it would save up on a ton of hard drive/SSD space (edited)

exio4

yea forza had the same issue, anything happening on the ssd would cause streaming issues and freeze the game for a split second - after driving for 2-3 seconds on untextured geometry

i can't find that video of someone trying control on a 5400rpm hdd

textures alone aren't just make the game "orders of magnitude smaller", forza horizon 5 has a fuckton of songs, voice lines, geometry, etc that you will still need

It would still be a good first step, kek

exio4

textures alone aren't just make the game "orders of magnitude smaller", forza horizon 5 has a fuckton of songs, voice lines, geometry, etc that you will still need

How much is forza 5 in GB?

easiest way to save space would be to convert useless lossless audio to compressed with good quality

Samueru

How much is forza 5 in GB?

120-140GB? i think

Egdarska

easiest way to save space would be to convert useless lossless audio to compressed with good quality

Opus 128 kbps is transparent. @exio4 if you used linux you may save 50 GB by simply having forza on a btrfs partition with compression.

can you actually confirm that number btw, because it sounds like a deranged statement for lossless compression

Samueru

Opus 128 kbps is transparent. @exio4 if you used linux you may save 50 GB by simply having forza on a btrfs partition with compression.

How does btrfs compress lossless audio that is already compressed? Reminder, lossless doesn't mean uncompressed. @Madoka see above. (edited)

Egdarska

easiest way to save space would be to convert useless lossless audio to compressed with good quality

Why the heck are developers not compressing audio anymore? You'd think it would be incredibly easy with modern hardware, compared to the PS1 or something

exio4

can you actually confirm that number btw, because it sounds like a deranged statement for lossless compression

A lot of games have duplicated content lol. @Egdarska I'm talking about Opus for audio (edited)

Samueru

A lot of games have duplicated content lol. @Egdarska I'm talking about Opus for audio (edited)

Duplicated content/padding shouldn't be necessary now, right? Especially with the long awaited death of PS4 and Xbox One

i dont get it, you think games dont use any compression? they do already, the thing is that lossy compression would be the benefit and if you mean deduplication, yeah, that is very important for hard drive games, but you're also gonna be talking about the I/O overhead, and games like forza do real-time streaming of assets while you drive, like any modern game, at a like, hundred of megabytes a second if you crank the textures & LODs up

trying to find old videos about control is awful

Maybe you should google "Control videogame" instead (edited)

I'm saving 35GB on my games dir with Btrfs with zstd:1 compression (it also contains switch titles which don't compress due to them being encrypted btw).

Madoka

Maybe you should google "Control videogame" instead (edited)

lol try it, this is with all those keywords already

Samueru

I'm saving 35GB on my games dir with Btrfs with zstd:1 compression (it also contains switch titles which don't compress due to them being encrypted btw).

iirc totk is 11GB if you decrypt it and compress it with zstd1 edit: Also Palworld was 15GB on my disk and the installation size at the time was 20 or something GB. (edited)

i need to check how big forza horizon 5 is on storage i remember 150 gb but that might be too a bit too much (edited)

exio4

i need to check how big forza horizon 5 is on storage i remember 150 gb but that might be too a bit too much (edited)

You should be able to use a VM to create a partiton with Btrfs using zstd1 and just drop the title in there to check the space usage.

exio4

i need to check how big forza horizon 5 is on storage i remember 150 gb but that might be too a bit too much (edited)

xbox app says 142.5GB installed, for the standard edition

Samueru

You should be able to use a VM to create a partiton with Btrfs using zstd1 and just drop the title in there to check the space usage.

i don't have enough storage for that bruh (edited)

exio4

i don't have enough storage for that bruh (edited)

As a real macos user would lol

9:48 AM

Doesn't macos support ZFS? You could also use that.

yea my ryzen+nvidia gaming pc runs macos the two most macOS-compatible brands for each (edited)

2

BeamNG is reduced by half in space! (Which is a car game with big maps like forza). (edited)

exio4

yea my ryzen+nvidia gaming pc runs macos the two most macOS-compatible brands for each (edited)

ryzen and intel arc hacintosh when?

i already went through my btrfs compressing everything phase in the early 2010s this is funny because it feels like im talking with a younger version of myself lol (edited)

exio4

i already went through my btrfs compressing everything phase in the early 2010s this is funny because it feels like im talking with a younger version of myself lol (edited)

Zstd only really got good after kernel 6.0 though.

Samueru

BeamNG is reduced by half in space! (Which is a car game with big maps like forza). (edited)

You can see the result here, that's a significant saving.

yeah its pretty good, i just mention this cuz compression isn't free lunch, any good compression ratio is heavily nerfing your CPU performance, and if it is lightweight it isn't gonna be that good, you're also talking about assets that are already a bit compressed, so you're wasting a fuckton of cycles vs just using more storage lol

9:55 AM

i need to fix my windows install but dont know where i left the windows iso, great

exio4

yeah its pretty good, i just mention this cuz compression isn't free lunch, any good compression ratio is heavily nerfing your CPU performance, and if it is lightweight it isn't gonna be that good, you're also talking about assets that are already a bit compressed, so you're wasting a fuckton of cycles vs just using more storage lol

There's no measurable difference in cpu usage btw, only in the read/write output, which in the end because the files are usually smaller by a considerable margin, it makes Btrfs faster at booting, etc. This is also the case with zram with zstd compression, using that saves 2 hours in the compile time on one of the cheapest amd apus ever

exio4

i need to fix my windows install but dont know where i left the windows iso, great

You can just download it, it's free.

Egdarska

You can just download it, it's free.

i know, its just that it was an insiders iso so its a bit more of a hassle

I did some benchmarks with Btrfs vs EXT4, I don't remember if you saw them exio.

Samueru

There's no measurable difference in cpu usage btw, only in the read/write output, which in the end because the files are usually smaller by a considerable margin, it makes Btrfs faster at booting, etc. This is also the case with zram with zstd compression, using that saves 2 hours in the compile time on one of the cheapest amd apus ever

ok, yes, it's only a difference when you read files, can you let me know what streaming files is? 10 Gbps (800MB/s sequential) through USB wasn't enough for forza horizon 5, how fast can you decompress on a modern CPU, while the CPU load of the game is already a high enough %? i'd not be shocked if some lightweight decompression is a massive uplift, basically free, spend 3% of your cpu time on it, and get gains, but lol if the "you saved a fuckton of storage" setting is viable for gaming (edited)

10:01 AM

maybe i'm biased because i'm usually cpu bottlenecked, so i tend to get more frames by lowering LODs than resolution (in Dogtown, I actually was CPU bound under 60 fps with my usual CPU settings, had to soften my underclock) (edited)

exio4

ok, yes, it's only a difference when you read files, can you let me know what streaming files is? 10 Gbps (800MB/s sequential) through USB wasn't enough for forza horizon 5, how fast can you decompress on a modern CPU, while the CPU load of the game is already a high enough %? i'd not be shocked if some lightweight decompression is a massive uplift, basically free, spend 3% of your cpu time on it, and get gains, but lol if the "you saved a fuckton of storage" setting is viable for gaming (edited)

Remember how the zstd zip file decompressed faster than the uncompressed zip on my pc? that's was due to a limit on the ssd though. You would have to try it either way.

Samueru

Remember how the zstd zip file decompressed faster than the uncompressed zip on my pc? that's was due to a limit on the ssd though. You would have to try it either way.

what SSD? SATA? (edited)

exio4

what SSD? SATA? (edited)

nvme, that you said that something must have been wrong and I even went and repeated the test on an EXT4 partition and it was the same result

Samueru

nvme, that you said that something must have been wrong and I even went and repeated the test on an EXT4 partition and it was the same result

I see, now, have you tried doing this with your CPU being heavily loaded from a game? and not with your CPU idling? (for example, Forza Horizon 5 on deck is CPU bottlenecked under 60 fps, it cannot lock to 60 fps no matter what you do - on steamdeck, lowest settings possible, still not gonna lock, 50 is also a struggle, can't lock) (edited)

exio4

I see, now, have you tried doing this with your CPU being heavily loaded from a game? and not with your CPU idling? (for example, Forza Horizon 5 on deck is CPU bottlenecked under 60 fps, it cannot lock to 60 fps no matter what you do - on steamdeck, lowest settings possible, still not gonna lock, 50 is also a struggle, can't lock) (edited)

Does the regular gaming I do count already? what are you worried about that the decompression speed might be slower or the fps lower due to that?

Samueru

Does the regular gaming I do count already? what are you worried about that the decompression speed might be slower or the fps lower due to that?

no, I'm worried about a few factors: 1) overall framerate => limited cpu resources, and for the deck: more CPU power = less GPU power 2) streaming issues => a lot of AAA games have issues if you run them off a SD card, or even SATA at times, just due to higher latency (cyberpunk 2077: phantom liberty, basically needs my SATA SSD to be uncongested, or it will misbehave, it's why I play it exclusively off NVMe(s)) 3) efficiency => relevant for the deck specifically, I don't think heavy compression is the solution, but a lightweight setting coming out as a result of lots of benchmarks

This is using a single cpu thread exio on the broadwell cpu, the first result is the only one that really matters because that is zstd1, it does 2000MB/s read with a compression ratio of 3.170.

10:11 AM

Let me try to compile yuzu which puts all my cpu to 100%

that's basically 4-5W equivalent on deck just FWIW (a third of the overall TDP) (edited)

exio4

that's basically 4-5W equivalent on deck just FWIW (a third of the overall TDP) (edited)

remember that because of the compression less time is also spent reading

modern games where this conversation makes sense aren't throughput bound tho, and the power for the ssd on many platforms is neglible lol the reason the 10 Gbps external USB experience is shit is not the 900 MB/s numbers, it's that the latency is trash, going to storage and back takes like multiple milliseconds just to start getting data, not even starting Windows' crappy guesstimate put the average response time at 25-50 ms, that is e-waste for gaming (edited)

Samueru

This is how the fstab should look after install (ignore the tmp files to ram and below that is something I did) (Also the noatime and compression was something I changed as well, but that is easy afterwards)

LukeTheVideoGamer

Click to see attachment 🖼️

That's the default? change zstd to zstd:1, the default is zstd:3 which just hurts output speed

okay! ... how do i do that wait. i should rtfm brb (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

okay! ... how do i do that wait. i should rtfm brb (edited)

where it says zstd, just put zstd:1 People also suggest using compress-force instead of compress iirc

@exio4 got dlsstweaks working, that does fix the dlaa.

lets fucking gooooo

@exio4 With the cpu at 100% it cuts the read speed by half, although I think part of the difference is because the cpu is no longer boosting with all the cpu threads under use

steamdeck doesn't boost like a normal pc either, the place where this is most relevant for me is the steamdeck it runs at 2 ish GHz and takes a second to boost to 3.5 (edited)

Samueru

where it says zstd, just put zstd:1 People also suggest using compress-force instead of compress iirc

so, wait, i follow this and just change "compress=zstd" to something like "compress-force=zstd:1"? or is there another method i should use if zstd is already being used? sorry im really really new to btrfs this is actually the first time i've ever used it (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

so, wait, i follow this and just change "compress=zstd" to something like "compress-force=zstd:1"? or is there another method i should use if zstd is already being used? sorry im really really new to btrfs this is actually the first time i've ever used it (edited)

You alrady have compress=zstd, you just need to change it to compress=zstd:1 which is even the default used by fedora.

how the fuck do i repair my windows install from the .iso goddamn am i dumb

exio4

steamdeck doesn't boost like a normal pc either, the place where this is most relevant for me is the steamdeck it runs at 2 ish GHz and takes a second to boost to 3.5 (edited)

Just disable boost for max battery life

Also i just wanted dlss tweaks for 75% dlss (edited)

exio4

how the fuck do i repair my windows install from the .iso goddamn am i dumb

rm -rf the c drive.

Samueru

rm -rf the c drive.

good idea now how do I play games @Egdarska actual tip for 7840u/rog ally users btw "disable boost", because base clocks are like 4GHz already on those chips

LukeTheVideoGamer

so, wait, i follow this and just change "compress=zstd" to something like "compress-force=zstd:1"? or is there another method i should use if zstd is already being used? sorry im really really new to btrfs this is actually the first time i've ever used it (edited)

https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-workstation-34-feature-focus-btrfs-transparent-compression/

nickavem

Fedora Workstation 34 feature focus: Btrfs transparent compression ...

A crash course guide into one of the most significant changes coming to Fedora 34. Learn about what transparent compression is and how to enable it.

i love computers, i'm streaming from my PC to my laptop, just to disable it on the mac and i can use the same keyboard/trackpad because i got tired of two input devices just to display it on the same screen, over hdmi instead of displayport lol (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

so, wait, i follow this and just change "compress=zstd" to something like "compress-force=zstd:1"? or is there another method i should use if zstd is already being used? sorry im really really new to btrfs this is actually the first time i've ever used it (edited)

send the output of sudo compsize -x / /home/ (you might need to install compsize btw).

exio4

good idea now how do I play games @Egdarska actual tip for 7840u/rog ally users btw "disable boost", because base clocks are like 4GHz already on those chips

Disabling boost is also pretty playable on my laptop, 3.3 vs 4GHz You just basically have to lock to 60fps (edited)

OH OKAY. KDE DECIDED TO DIE

1

lets gooo the linux experience

1

I love rtgi

I once had the screenlocker in kde crash, which prevented me from unlocking the pc lol

Samueru

send the output of sudo compsize -x / /home/ (you might need to install compsize btw).

HELP oh also here are those results you ordered

repairing Windows AMA, i doubt it works, i downloaded this like 5 weeks ago and i forgor to do it, i bet windows changed in between (adhd moment) (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

HELP oh also here are those results you ordered

Cool, you already saved near half in disk usage.

Samueru

Cool, you already saved near half in disk usage.

this is still with default settings i havent managed to open that link you sent. it wont load. i dont know why. i think my wifi driver's a piece of shit.

LukeTheVideoGamer

this is still with default settings i havent managed to open that link you sent. it wont load. i dont know why. i think my wifi driver's a piece of shit.

Also post the output of zstd -e5 -b1, you should see it only uses a single cpu thread in htop while doing the test

Guys I have a problem so I have 2 drivers and Yuzu won't pick them up when I select Vulkan, but when I disable Amd it works. That's weird to me since Cemu works just fine with both? And I am sure my drivers are the latest version...

Samueru

Also post the output of zstd -e5 -b1, you should see it only uses a single cpu thread in htop while doing the test

running zstd btw the mac, just for fun lol

exio4•~» zstd -e5 -b1
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  968.5 MB/s, 2504.8 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  766.2 MB/s, 2441.4 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  436.4 MB/s, 1935.7 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),  359.4 MB/s, 1735.5 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),  177.2 MB/s, 1678.7 MB/s

(edited)

exio4

running zstd btw the mac, just for fun lol

exio4•~» zstd -e5 -b1
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  968.5 MB/s, 2504.8 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  766.2 MB/s, 2441.4 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  436.4 MB/s, 1935.7 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),  359.4 MB/s, 1735.5 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),  177.2 MB/s, 1678.7 MB/s

(edited)

Where?

exio4

running zstd btw the mac, just for fun lol

exio4•~» zstd -e5 -b1
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  968.5 MB/s, 2504.8 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  766.2 MB/s, 2441.4 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  436.4 MB/s, 1935.7 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),  359.4 MB/s, 1735.5 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),  177.2 MB/s, 1678.7 MB/s

(edited)

That's an insanely fast compression speed btw.

Samueru

Also post the output of zstd -e5 -b1, you should see it only uses a single cpu thread in htop while doing the test

waow (command was still running while i took the screenshot to show thread usage. second image is the actual results) this is on a mechanical hard drive too btw (edited)

Marli The Bob

Guys I have a problem so I have 2 drivers and Yuzu won't pick them up when I select Vulkan, but when I disable Amd it works. That's weird to me since Cemu works just fine with both? And I am sure my drivers are the latest version...

What happens with them? do they have a black screen?

LukeTheVideoGamer

waow (command was still running while i took the screenshot to show thread usage. second image is the actual results) this is on a mechanical hard drive too btw (edited)

Welp, it is an FX cpu after all.

brb i gotta restart my computer or something kde is being a piece of crap, i need to change my pacman mirrors to be closer to where i am, and i need to install a different driver

LukeTheVideoGamer

brb i gotta restart my computer or something kde is being a piece of crap, i need to change my pacman mirrors to be closer to where i am, and i need to install a different driver

Although you should never be limited by the algo, since you're using a SATA ssd you will only have reads of 550MB/s at most.

results forced into the e-cores with background only permissions

(base) exio4•~» taskpolicy -b -- zstd -e5 -b1
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  217.9 MB/s,  985.2 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  170.9 MB/s, 1054.8 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  103.8 MB/s,  584.5 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),   75.5 MB/s,  501.6 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),   50.3 MB/s,  750.3 MB/s

Samueru

Although you should never be limited by the algo, since you're using a SATA ssd you will only have reads of 550MB/s at most.

actually my SSD is still Windows'd up, this linux install is on a 1TB mechanical HDD that's like 11 years old so. for what it's worth. it's reasonable results. (edited)

2

lol, game just crashed when i shot an enemy, that hadn't happened in a while

exio4

results forced into the e-cores with background only permissions

(base) exio4•~» taskpolicy -b -- zstd -e5 -b1
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  217.9 MB/s,  985.2 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  170.9 MB/s, 1054.8 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  103.8 MB/s,  584.5 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),   75.5 MB/s,  501.6 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),   50.3 MB/s,  750.3 MB/s

As good as the FX cpu on the ecores haha

also, everspace is 90% off on gog in case anyone is interested, so $2 if you're in the US. (edited)

Egdarska

What happens with them? do they have a black screen?

It just crashes, like Yuzu crashes (edited)

powermetrics snippet (cpu power only, not all soc power consumption, it is counting discord, but not the gpu/npu/etc, and everything else, but gives you an idea):

CPU Power: 1545 mW
CPU Power: 583 mW
CPU Power: 649 mW
CPU Power: 645 mW
CPU Power: 854 mW
CPU Power: 1558 mW
CPU Power: 887 mW
CPU Power: 899 mW
CPU Power: 701 mW
CPU Power: 639 mW
CPU Power: 717 mW
CPU Power: 776 mW
CPU Power: 844 mW
CPU Power: 589 mW
CPU Power: 727 mW
CPU Power: 890 mW
CPU Power: 1007 mW
CPU Power: 1055 mW
CPU Power: 1037 mW
CPU Power: 1045 mW
CPU Power: 855 mW

samples every 1000ms / 1 second performance results during that capture:

 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  272.5 MB/s, 1039.9 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  260.9 MB/s, 1119.8 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  131.7 MB/s,  712.0 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),   79.8 MB/s,  697.8 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),   43.2 MB/s,  650.7 MB/s

(edited)

Marli The Bob

It just crashes, like Yuzu crashes (edited)

That's not enough to know what's wrong, post a log in the relevant support channel.

Egdarska

That's not enough to know what's wrong, post a log in the relevant support channel.

How do I do that (sorry for my inexperience)

LukeTheVideoGamer

actually my SSD is still Windows'd up, this linux install is on a 1TB mechanical HDD that's like 11 years old so. for what it's worth. it's reasonable results. (edited)

correction: 3 years old but honestly if it's mechanical i just assume it's a decade old, at best, so

exio4

powermetrics snippet (cpu power only, not all soc power consumption, it is counting discord, but not the gpu/npu/etc, and everything else, but gives you an idea):

CPU Power: 1545 mW
CPU Power: 583 mW
CPU Power: 649 mW
CPU Power: 645 mW
CPU Power: 854 mW
CPU Power: 1558 mW
CPU Power: 887 mW
CPU Power: 899 mW
CPU Power: 701 mW
CPU Power: 639 mW
CPU Power: 717 mW
CPU Power: 776 mW
CPU Power: 844 mW
CPU Power: 589 mW
CPU Power: 727 mW
CPU Power: 890 mW
CPU Power: 1007 mW
CPU Power: 1055 mW
CPU Power: 1037 mW
CPU Power: 1045 mW
CPU Power: 855 mW

samples every 1000ms / 1 second performance results during that capture:

 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  272.5 MB/s, 1039.9 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  260.9 MB/s, 1119.8 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  131.7 MB/s,  712.0 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),   79.8 MB/s,  697.8 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),   43.2 MB/s,  650.7 MB/s

(edited)

i specify that power is for all cpu clusters cuz sometimes people think it's a per-core metric and ask for which core is which (edited)

exio4

i specify that power is for all cpu clusters cuz sometimes people think it's a per-core metric and ask for which core is which (edited)

Is it good bad? how much power would it be using if it was writing/reading uncompressed data instead?

LukeTheVideoGamer

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Btw you don't have /tmp on tmpfs, might wanna do that, specially on a mechanical drive.

Samueru

Btw you don't have /tmp on tmpfs, might wanna do that, specially on a mechanical drive.

honestly rn my priority is getting my computer is a more usable state

LukeTheVideoGamer

honestly rn my priority is getting my computer is a more usable state

Oh yeah make it work before optimizing haha edit: Exio is about to drop a wall of text lol (edited)

10:52 AM

Exio has been typing for 5 minutes already, shouldn't have asked about efficiency lol

Samueru

Is it good bad? how much power would it be using if it was writing/reading uncompressed data instead?

power consumption of one, two e-cores is nearly always so low it is irrelevant, it's basically free extra performance, Apple e-cores are stupidly fast (for a phone e-core), and "optimized" for phone/watch usage, AKA you can run shit on them overnight, and as long as you throttle I/O, the network, etc, you can run workloads in way under a W easy (<5% discharge overnight, while actively working) they're slow as fuck vs the p-cores tho, the usual spread is that they're 20% to a third of a p-core in performance, at max frequency each - and the e-cores rarely run at their high frequency, i'm actually shocked they're this fast here; I assume the workload pushed their clocks higher this is why I hate that intel's e-cores are area optimized first and not power optimized first, and run them at 3GHz+, and force them carry the whole computer's performance because they only put 2 p-cores as well AAAAHHHHHHH (edited)

oh my god im going to need to do a manual hard shutdown arent i reboot isnt working shutdown now isnt working and i cant very well access the KDE logout prompt because KDE decided to fall into a pit of lava on purpose (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

oh my god im going to need to do a manual hard shutdown arent i reboot isnt working shutdown now isnt working and i cant very well access the KDE logout prompt because KDE decided to fall into a pit of lava on purpose (edited)

type sudo shutdown on the terminal

i've tried. (ignore the "sudo shutdown --now" one that was me being stupid and forgetting how shutdown worked) (edited)

Marli The Bob

How do I do that (sorry for my inexperience)

https://yuzu-emu.org/help/reference/log-files/

Getting Log Files · yuzu

How to properly gather and upload log files from yuzu.

Egdarska

https://yuzu-emu.org/help/reference/log-files/

Thank you

LukeTheVideoGamer

i've tried. (ignore the "sudo shutdown --now" one that was me being stupid and forgetting how shutdown worked) (edited)

Ok time to pull the plug

OPH WAIT ... it isnt going. (edited)

exio4

power consumption of one, two e-cores is nearly always so low it is irrelevant, it's basically free extra performance, Apple e-cores are stupidly fast (for a phone e-core), and "optimized" for phone/watch usage, AKA you can run shit on them overnight, and as long as you throttle I/O, the network, etc, you can run workloads in way under a W easy (<5% discharge overnight, while actively working) they're slow as fuck vs the p-cores tho, the usual spread is that they're 20% to a third of a p-core in performance, at max frequency each - and the e-cores rarely run at their high frequency, i'm actually shocked they're this fast here; I assume the workload pushed their clocks higher this is why I hate that intel's e-cores are area optimized first and not power optimized first, and run them at 3GHz+, and force them carry the whole computer's performance because they only put 2 p-cores as well AAAAHHHHHHH (edited)

So is it possible to measure the impact that zstd would have on energy usage?

LukeTheVideoGamer

OPH WAIT ... it isnt going. (edited)

Try systemctl poweroff

Samueru

So is it possible to measure the impact that zstd would have on energy usage?

yes, you'd need a cleaner runtime (i'm running too much shit right now), but macOS doesn't offer a granular way to tie a process to a core, so you need to rely on Apple's taskpolicy and set a priority and let the OS do its best (edited)

Samueru

Try systemctl poweroff

i just hit the reset switch on my case lol

also @exio4 shadow noise in native taa vs dlss. I still don't get why they use that shadow rendering, it's "fine" if you have an amazing temporal denoiser, otherwise it's trash (edited)

i couldn't tell them apart on my 14" screen, but 27" makes dlss a massive W oh also dlss bad because it is blurrier Clueless

(edited)

And it doesn't even have contact hardening, so they could have just done regular shadow map rendering with a blur pass.

LukeTheVideoGamer

i just hit the reset switch on my case lol

Also check journalctl -p 3 -xb for bad errors.

LukeTheVideoGamer

Click to see attachment 🖼️

i gotta work on my homework but i dont wanna get too distracted feeling like im back to uni rn (edited)

so i just do this?? and also do a thing with tmp???

LukeTheVideoGamer

so i just do this?? and also do a thing with tmp???

Indeed, for tmp add this below: tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,noatime,nodev,size=4G 0 0 (might wanna add noexec as well, that's just a safety thing) EDIT: TO THE tmpfs entry, DO NOT ADD NOEXEC TO THE BTRFS VOLUMES (edited)

how much ram do you have @LukeTheVideoGamer

exio4

how much ram do you have @LukeTheVideoGamer

24GB in linux i've only seen up to 8GB used, so i think i'd be fine with making the size 8G or so (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

24GB in linux i've only seen up to 8GB used, so i think i'd be fine with making the size 8G or so (edited)

Cool, you will later be able to mount more stuff to later on ram which will be great.

updating cyberpunk rn wanna try SMAA @Egdarska a mf in another discord says TAA is the worst and praises SMAA so hard

Samueru

Indeed, for tmp add this below: tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,noatime,nodev,size=4G 0 0 (might wanna add noexec as well, that's just a safety thing) EDIT: TO THE tmpfs entry, DO NOT ADD NOEXEC TO THE BTRFS VOLUMES (edited)

a little something like this?

exio4

updating cyberpunk rn wanna try SMAA @Egdarska a mf in another discord says TAA is the worst and praises SMAA so hard

SMAA is ok if you're playing an older game with simple geometry and no modern effects that need denoising I'm coping with reshade smaa in dark souls 3 because there's no other option. (edited)

Egdarska

SMAA is ok if you're playing an older game with simple geometry and no modern effects that need denoising I'm coping with reshade smaa in dark souls 3 because there's no other option. (edited)

yea but the guy adds it with reshade to modern games after disabling TAA lmao I've read SMAA's paper, it is conceptually something along the lines of a proto-DLSS, it's ideally a multi-sampling (with a temporal component, a spatial component, and a post-processing layer that helps make the data make sense) but the paper is basically clear that the post-processing filter alone is not enough for Good™️ Modern Anti-Aliasing lol (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

a little something like this?

Cool, but you removed nodev from the tmpfs though

ahhh crap i forgot to put in nodev. thank god i havent written to my fstab yet

exio4

yea but the guy adds it with reshade to modern games after disabling TAA lmao I've read SMAA's paper, it is conceptually something along the lines of a proto-DLSS, it's ideally a multi-sampling (with a temporal component, a spatial component, and a post-processing layer that helps make the data make sense) but the paper is basically clear that the post-processing filter alone is not enough for Good™️ Modern Anti-Aliasing lol (edited)

Yeah, that only works for games like dark souls where they're basically just ps3 games, not modern games.

LukeTheVideoGamer

ahhh crap i forgot to put in nodev. thank god i havent written to my fstab yet

nothing wrong is gonna happen, it is just a safety thing to prevent viruses from running off /tmp lol

FINALLY... does this look good? awesome, just wrote to fstab (edited)

1

@LukeTheVideoGamer The next thing would be setting up zram instead of zswap which is what likely came by default in endeavor. The arch wiki has all the steps nicely explained on that btw

Egdarska

Yeah, that only works for games like dark souls where they're basically just ps3 games, not modern games.

yea if you have modern effects smaa fails funny, i tried it on spider-man and i couldn't get it, it just... looked aliased? like, worse aliasing than fsr2 quality at 800p???

Samueru

@LukeTheVideoGamer The next thing would be setting up zram instead of zswap which is what likely came by default in endeavor. The arch wiki has all the steps nicely explained on that btw

how would i know if i have zswap or zram? wait, you mentioned the arch wiki, they probably have it spelled out there... (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

how would i know if i have zswap or zram? wait, you mentioned the arch wiki, they probably have it spelled out there... (edited)

type zramctl on the terminal. if nothing shows up check htop if you have a swap active. If you do you are using zswap edit: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Zram (use the zram-generator method) (edited)

Zram

exio4

yea if you have modern effects smaa fails funny, i tried it on spider-man and i couldn't get it, it just... looked aliased? like, worse aliasing than fsr2 quality at 800p???

I found something weird about the RT in re8, with lower settings it seems to ignore normal maps on some surfaces. (edited)

what? ... what?

Samueru

type zramctl on the terminal. if nothing shows up check htop if you have a swap active. If you do you are using zswap edit: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Zram (use the zram-generator method) (edited)

does the mere presence of the swap bar here mean im using zswap, or is the fact that it's using exactly 0K of 0K of swap mean i dont??? sorry i am a complete noob with this kinda stuff still for reference zramctl said nothing (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

does the mere presence of the swap bar here mean im using zswap, or is the fact that it's using exactly 0K of 0K of swap mean i dont??? sorry i am a complete noob with this kinda stuff still for reference zramctl said nothing (edited)

You don't have no swap set up, interesting. Well either way you have to follow the arch wiki link

Either that or it's just the higher quality reflections, but it seems to get completely ignored at low, if it were just the lower samples then you'd still get something. Look at the bricks. (edited)

Egdarska

Either that or it's just the higher quality reflections, but it seems to get completely ignored at low, if it were just the lower samples then you'd still get something. Look at the bricks. (edited)

you sure it isn’t that the samples are just too low? (the re games barely use any samples already) (edited)

1

exio4

you sure it isn’t that the samples are just too low? (the re games barely use any samples already) (edited)

if it was just that then just by chance some of the bricks would get a sample at the edge at some point, they never get anything even if i move the camera With low samples and no dlss the rt would get noisier at the edges. (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

If you will ever do crazy things with that zram, you will need to increase the size, but for now that is fine (the zram size is a limit to the uncompressed size which is usually 3x the amount of compressed data).

i dont expect that i will, but if i ever do, i will increase it unrelated note i should probably re-setup chaotic-aur and all my other apps (edited)

One thing i don't like about games where the RT is just added is that they tend to exaggerate the GI to make it more noticeable.

LukeTheVideoGamer

i dont expect that i will, but if i ever do, i will increase it unrelated note i should probably re-setup chaotic-aur and all my other apps (edited)

This vid really shows the power of zram, it alone managed to beat windows with a pagefile (zram is only on memory you are not using the disk as swap). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMYTBsjeoTc

jomo

Linux ZRAM vs Windows with PAGEFILE

Egdarska

if it was just that then just by chance some of the bricks would get a sample at the edge at some point, they never get anything even if i move the camera With low samples and no dlss the rt would get noisier at the edges. (edited)

fair;re:GI the issue i have is that games keep the raster GI lol, cyberpunk and alan wake keep it enabled

LukeTheVideoGamer

i dont expect that i will, but if i ever do, i will increase it unrelated note i should probably re-setup chaotic-aur and all my other apps (edited)

Also if you move several games to the Btrfs partition do check compsize again to see how good they compress.

https://www.threads.net/@ericaonthreads/post/C4CQDtgI-lH/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== check threads and this is what happens in ohio

erica (@ericaonthreads) on Threads

update: they confirmed it was gunshots !!!!

exio4

fair;re:GI the issue i have is that games keep the raster GI lol, cyberpunk and alan wake keep it enabled

I don't think they leave it enabled in re8, or if they do the rtgi is so exaggerated it overwhelms it and hides it I was looking for places where the raster gi is mixed with the rtgi and i can't find anything that jumps out. (edited)

Egdarska

I don't think they leave it enabled in re8, or if they do the rtgi is so exaggerated it overwhelms it and hides it I was looking for places where the raster gi is mixed with the rtgi and i can't find anything that jumps out. (edited)

that’s actually nice

Downloading CS2 just to check how good it compresses lol

Samueru

Downloading CS2 just to check how good it compresses lol

man im jealous of that speed

LukeTheVideoGamer

man im jealous of that speed

Steam never gives me the full gigabit btw

Samueru

Steam never gives me the full gigabit btw

you are cpu or i/o bound then

exio4

you are cpu or i/o bound then

It is only steam

steam downloads are notoriously CPU limited

LukeTheVideoGamer

steam downloads are notoriously CPU limited

KEK

Samueru

It is only steam

steam doesn’t download raw files, they are heavily compressed and updates are also delta/differentials so they are usually cpu/io bound on fast connections

exio4

steam doesn’t download raw files, they are heavily compressed and updates are also delta/differentials so they are usually cpu/io bound on fast connections

Yeah I just noticed lol (game is done downloading btw)

Samueru

Yeah I just noticed lol (game is done downloading btw)

now you understand why compression isn’t a free lunch right lol

exio4

now you understand why compression isn’t a free lunch right lol

Yeah but steam most be using something that's harder on the cpu

11:48 AM

Zstd only saves 10% of disk usage for CS2

11:49 AM

The steam download was 27.5GB btw

Samueru

Zstd only saves 10% of disk usage for CS2

Which is good, it means valve put the effort to reduce the size of the game.

11:51 AM

Other games like BeamNG and Project WIngman fucking did not lol

try cyberpunk

exio4

try cyberpunk

How much is it? edit: nvm I'm not paying 44 usd for that lol (edited)

fair lol

bleh

F

LukeTheVideoGamer

bleh

You might wanna test with CS2 to discard any difference, in my case it is 33GB -> 30GB, I do use compress-force instead of compress

12:16 PM

The difference is that in that case Btrfs determines if the data is compressible before zstd is ran, which I've seen many debates that it doesn't even help becasue zstd isn't dumb, so I don't know

would have to download CS2 to do it and honestly in windows i get like 4x the download speed im getting in linux right now in steam so

LukeTheVideoGamer

would have to download CS2 to do it and honestly in windows i get like 4x the download speed im getting in linux right now in steam so

You don't have it on windows? Do you also have project wingman or Beamng? you can compare the results to mine for those as well (although project wingman I'm on a beta and not the stable release btw, very different game) (edited)

Samueru

You don't have it on windows? Do you also have project wingman or Beamng? you can compare the results to mine for those as well (although project wingman I'm on a beta and not the stable release btw, very different game) (edited)

i deleted it from external storage when i realized that i wouldnt be able to make it out of the damn bot tutorial alive with how much FPS i was getting on my poor FX-6300 lmao. and unfortunately no i dont have either of those

1

how does discord not run like shit on ur pc when it run it on my e-cores its nearly useless (edited)

lemme put it this way on my iMac with a GPU nearly five times weaker than this one's GTX 1650, but paired with a third gen i5, at the lowest possible settings since YES I WAS GPU BOTTLENECKED, i was getting above 40fps at all times in a bot match. i never saw below 40fps unless it was a stutter. here, where the inverse is true? every round starts at 10fps, and as the bots die the FPS slowly crawls back up @exio4 That's the neat thing. (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

lemme put it this way on my iMac with a GPU nearly five times weaker than this one's GTX 1650, but paired with a third gen i5, at the lowest possible settings since YES I WAS GPU BOTTLENECKED, i was getting above 40fps at all times in a bot match. i never saw below 40fps unless it was a stutter. here, where the inverse is true? every round starts at 10fps, and as the bots die the FPS slowly crawls back up @exio4 That's the neat thing. (edited)

FX-6300, so not shocking, I owned a FX-6100, it was only usable against the pentium competitor because I needed real virtualization lol @ discord (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

lemme put it this way on my iMac with a GPU nearly five times weaker than this one's GTX 1650, but paired with a third gen i5, at the lowest possible settings since YES I WAS GPU BOTTLENECKED, i was getting above 40fps at all times in a bot match. i never saw below 40fps unless it was a stutter. here, where the inverse is true? every round starts at 10fps, and as the bots die the FPS slowly crawls back up @exio4 That's the neat thing. (edited)

The 3rd gen i5 is a much better cpu btw, my old i7 2600s which was a low power sandy chip did 1500MB/s with an older version of zstd. Yours did 1000 kek

ok but legit im getting like damn near the best performance i have ever seen out of anything running discord web in my life. the scrolling mwah buttery smooth, and minimal lag when typing in the chat box. i guess it helps that im running it in firefox, not chromium, and on a lightweight operating system with damn near half the CPU utilization of Windows 10.

Samueru

The 3rd gen i5 is a much better cpu btw, my old i7 2600s which was a low power sandy chip did 1500MB/s with an older version of zstd. Yours did 1000 kek

the fact that Apple's e-cores on <1W did better is just so fucking funny to me tho, like we all realize these are what an Apple Watch uses right? it's a smart watch cpu core (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

ok but legit im getting like damn near the best performance i have ever seen out of anything running discord web in my life. the scrolling mwah buttery smooth, and minimal lag when typing in the chat box. i guess it helps that im running it in firefox, not chromium, and on a lightweight operating system with damn near half the CPU utilization of Windows 10.

I've found firefox to be much harder in the cpu btw, but if it works it works lol @exio4 Yeah the FX cpus perform like the ecores of m*c.

yeah, Firefox is less performant on every system I own than Chrome (which in turn is slower than Safari on Apple Silicon)

Samueru

I've found firefox to be much harder in the cpu btw, but if it works it works lol @exio4 Yeah the FX cpus perform like the ecores of m*c.

i've found it to be true too, but weirdly it performs way better under linux, even for chromium-optimized webapps like discord edit: brave

(edited)

I use the PWA of Brave for discord, the good thing of using the PWA is that you don't need to be running several different electron applications on your system, the bad news is that firefox dropped PWAs so it only works on chromium browsers. Like having whatsapp, discord and telegram running uses less than 2GB of ram for the whole system.

LukeTheVideoGamer

i've found it to be true too, but weirdly it performs way better under linux, even for chromium-optimized webapps like discord edit: brave

(edited)

Can't escape brave, it has configurable keybinds and sync chain which I need lol

i like safari's pwas in concept for discord, it'd SAVE so much power - with just benefits, no downsides, until I use cmd+1/2/3

uh oh i accidentally pulled an all-nighter @Samueru i dont like brave. it's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it shills crypto everywhere.

12:29 PM

but legit, i dont really care what browser u use lmao. whatever works for u works! i just wish Safari was on more operating systems than macOS.

LukeTheVideoGamer

uh oh i accidentally pulled an all-nighter @Samueru i dont like brave. it's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it shills crypto everywhere.

I used to use librewolf with a custom userChrome.css, but that shit was too many hacks to even remove a fuck up that mozilla did that by default they changed changing tabs to alt+123 instead of control+123 like every other browser does (they only did it on linux as well). The brave crypto ads just get disabled on the homepage, I don't even have to go to settings to do so And holy shit no other browser has the sync chain feature, like I was abusing that shit by having the browser cache on tmpfs and downloading it every time I booted the PC back in, only duckduckgo recently said that they will add it lol.

what is sync chain also @LukeTheVideoGamer yes safari is good, but not perfect, I love it when I'm on the go tho, battery life goes from 6-7 hours to 12+

exio4

what is sync chain also @LukeTheVideoGamer yes safari is good, but not perfect, I love it when I'm on the go tho, battery life goes from 6-7 hours to 12+

no browser is truly perfect, but i feel personally that safari, and things like Orion by Kagi (love it or hate it), are the closest things to it for me personally

exio4

what is sync chain also @LukeTheVideoGamer yes safari is good, but not perfect, I love it when I'm on the go tho, battery life goes from 6-7 hours to 12+

Like a crypto wallet but for the active tabs, bookmarks, etc, (you can also use it for the passwords but that is not a very secure practice). It also doesn't need email to work, and saves the extensions and more importantly extension settings!

Samueru

Like a crypto wallet but for the active tabs, bookmarks, etc, (you can also use it for the passwords but that is not a very secure practice). It also doesn't need email to work, and saves the extensions and more importantly extension settings!

i'm confused, like you mean end to end encrypted... bookmarks?

exio4

i'm confused, like you mean end to end encrypted... bookmarks?

Like I can open my active tab from my pc on my smartphone without having to register in something like pocket in firefox.

(i did that btw, its neat but it didnt work other than the tabs thing) bastards said i could sync extensions but none of them did! grrr (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

(i did that btw, its neat but it didnt work other than the tabs thing) bastards said i could sync extensions but none of them did! grrr (edited)

Brave syncs extensions and their settings as well.

Apple does that w/ Safari, you do need to sign-up, but with ADP, everything is end to end encrypted https://support.apple.com/en-vn/102651 (for the extensions they don't, because they all work 100% on-device, and they're basically standalone apps that need to be signed and shit)

iCloud data security overview - Apple Support (VN)

iCloud uses strong security methods, employs strict policies to protect your information, and leads the industry in using privacy-preserving security technologies like end-to-end encryption for your data.

12:35 PM

the only data w/ ADP that is on the cloud that doesn't get end to end encrypted is Mail, Contacts & Calendar, wish they did so for contacts & calendar, though - but apparently it's a technical reason

This my cool one liner css that I use for librewolf, it would be great if I could only sync it with my smartphone and use PWAs lol

12:37 PM

Brave and all other browsers already have vertical tab support to save screen space, it is only firefox that is lacking them once again lol (although I think a fork of firefox has them)

you can add them with an extension (edited)

i dont particularly like vertical tabs. i know that most websites nowadays use far less horizontal space than before but it feels weird maximizing my browser and not having the whole webpage span the horizontal length of my display

LukeTheVideoGamer

i dont particularly like vertical tabs. i know that most websites nowadays use far less horizontal space than before but it feels weird maximizing my browser and not having the whole webpage span the horizontal length of my display

You use PWAs for that type of application, and some let you hide the sidebar

~~im a lil afraid to ask what "PWA" stands for and i do not know why~~ yeah i guess that makes sense, it just feels odd for me personally

Like the yellow border is being applied by my window manager, you would have no idea I'm using a web browser for discord.

try cmd+1/2/3 i can't remember the keybinds, i just do them intuitively, to switch between discord servers (ctrl+1/2/3?) (edited)

Samueru

Like the yellow border is being applied by my window manager, you would have no idea I'm using a web browser for discord.

Oh, I have an idea.

vencord ftw i actually quite like this stuff it lets me know at a glance if someone's actually at their computer or if they're on their phone or a browser somewhere it's cool (edited)

exio4

try cmd+1/2/3 i can't remember the keybinds, i just do them intuitively, to switch between discord servers (ctrl+1/2/3?) (edited)

I use vimium to navigate (another cool thing of PWAs is that you can use your extensions on the thing lol).

you sure you dont have undiagnosed autism? (edited)

1

Samueru

I use vimium to navigate (another cool thing of PWAs is that you can use your extensions on the thing lol).

Notice the key combinations, if I press those keys I go to that link, they are seen by pressing g in my case (the default is f). @exio4 This is what happens when you try to use the keyboard only for everything, do not fall on the vim hole

I already fell through it like a decade ago lol I used irssi & then weechat, under screen & eventually tmux (edited)

time to make this T7 SSD btrfs

exio4

you sure you dont have undiagnosed autism? (edited)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZO80CZB9Lw This is a good demo of a similar extension

Brodie Robertson

SurfingKeys: Browser Vim Keys Better Than Ever

how old are u again

Plus since my window manager has a tabbed layout, I usually keep discord, telegram and whatsapp as a single window and switch tabs with mod+s to left and mod+f to right, don't even have to use dedicated workspaces for each lol

wait there's a utility called btrfs-convert????????????????????? edit: oh ok only for ext2/3/4 and reiserfs my copying of files from this exFAT disk to here was warranted (edited)

exio4

how old are u again

28 @LukeTheVideoGamer I've heard horror stories from that tool so be careful lol

oh ur older than me wack do u remember diaspora (edited)

what

the social network lol i guess ur newer to this my bad

exio4

the social network lol i guess ur newer to this my bad

Nope, I've only been using linux since 2017, and the hardcore part with vimium and i3 since 2022 lol, used to use just regular xfce4 before

hey, if i were to format an external disk to put btrfs on it, would it make sense to make it gpt over dos/mbr? or... (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

hey, if i were to format an external disk to put btrfs on it, would it make sense to make it gpt over dos/mbr? or... (edited)

Doesn't really matter, the only difference is that dos limits you to 4 partitions. But I've never used btrfs on dos so don't quote me on that.

... yeah imma make this ssd gpt then

1

i started using linux in 2007-2008, full-time in 2009-2010, but only got hardcore around 2011-2012 I also had mostly hard drives so I remember file compression being a massive help in throughput; while I even daily drove a "tty-only" linux + a single-window firefox on ctrl-alt-f7 i eventually went to uni in 2013, and got a job not long after and switched to normal ass ubuntu, and eventually got a m*c from my job

1

12:55 PM

when was LXC's 1.0 release? I used it before then for context, I'm from '97

exio4

i started using linux in 2007-2008, full-time in 2009-2010, but only got hardcore around 2011-2012 I also had mostly hard drives so I remember file compression being a massive help in throughput; while I even daily drove a "tty-only" linux + a single-window firefox on ctrl-alt-f7 i eventually went to uni in 2013, and got a job not long after and switched to normal ass ubuntu, and eventually got a m*c from my job

I don't do tty only because I have to wait for the monitor to change resolution and it takes 3 seconds every time lol

exio4

when was LXC's 1.0 release? I used it before then for context, I'm from '97

You played with Btrfs in 2010? that shit was a deadwish back then.

Samueru

I don't do tty only because I have to wait for the monitor to change resolution and it takes 3 seconds every time lol

times have changed, i also ran an intel atom with shitty drivers, but a fixed 1024x600 display, so the scaling also worked differently also, yes, it was shit lol, btrfs lost my data multiple times, i assume it's finally production-ready by now, but i remember reading about btrfs becoming good next year for like forever (edited)

I think it was worse than using bcachefs a year ago lol

when did they introduce compression? i was basically beta testing that shit (memory is fuzzy, it's been a while, and i ultimately always went back to ext4) (edited)

exio4

when did they introduce compression? i was basically beta testing that shit (memory is fuzzy, it's been a while, and i ultimately always went back to ext4) (edited)

I don't know, I'm very new to this. I never used unity either.

1:01 PM

I've haven't even used gentoo lol

https://web.archive.org/web/20130501193634/https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Compression I used zlib the first kernel I compiled was 2.6.32 iirc

These days it is either Zstd or LZ4.

i had an Intel Atom N270 I don't think I wanna run LZ4 or ZSTD on that

exio4

i had an Intel Atom N270 I don't think I wanna run LZ4 or ZSTD on that

LZ4 is used on crappy android smartphones already.

Samueru

LZ4 is used on crappy android smartphones already.

give me an android soc, a really bad one

exio4

give me an android soc, a really bad one

Whatever the moto g3 used lol

96 single core, 182 multi core n270 does 70/100

I don't remember if the og moto g with kitkat used zstd with zram, check that one either way

it likely didn't, i remember having to hack in compressed ram back in the day i did root my phone the days are long gone, now i want a phone that works

Btw since lz4 was mentioned:

is that single core?

Samueru

Btw since lz4 was mentioned:

@exio4 If you think you could run into a use case where the decompression speed of zstd is the bottleneck on some crappy device, you would use lz4 instead which doesn't have the great compression ratio. Yes single core.

THIS ISNT MODERN TO THEM ANYMORE???

(base) exio4•~» lz4 -e5 -b1
Benchmarking levels from 1 to 5
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1938.7 MB/s ,11038.4 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1940.6 MB/s ,11053.7 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4560720 (2.193), 120.8 MB/s ,5392.4 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4534386 (2.205),  94.2 MB/s ,5368.4 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4529772 (2.208),  84.1 MB/s ,5370.1 MB/s
(base) exio4•~» taskpolicy -b -- lz4 -e5 -b1
Benchmarking levels from 1 to 5
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707), 419.0 MB/s ,3369.9 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707), 575.3 MB/s ,4503.7 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4560720 (2.193),  44.9 MB/s ,2281.5 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4534386 (2.205),  32.7 MB/s ,1937.6 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4529772 (2.208),  26.2 MB/s ,1575.7 MB/s

LukeTheVideoGamer

THIS ISNT MODERN TO THEM ANYMORE???

Oh boy I've gotten rid of all my google accounts years ago lol

its quite worse than i expected, if i'm honest

exio4

(base) exio4•~» lz4 -e5 -b1
Benchmarking levels from 1 to 5
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1938.7 MB/s ,11038.4 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1940.6 MB/s ,11053.7 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4560720 (2.193), 120.8 MB/s ,5392.4 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4534386 (2.205),  94.2 MB/s ,5368.4 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4529772 (2.208),  84.1 MB/s ,5370.1 MB/s
(base) exio4•~» taskpolicy -b -- lz4 -e5 -b1
Benchmarking levels from 1 to 5
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707), 419.0 MB/s ,3369.9 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707), 575.3 MB/s ,4503.7 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4560720 (2.193),  44.9 MB/s ,2281.5 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4534386 (2.205),  32.7 MB/s ,1937.6 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4529772 (2.208),  26.2 MB/s ,1575.7 MB/s

lz4 vs zstd: Notice that when the compression ratio of lz4 gets near zstd, it is actually much slower on compression that it is not worth it.

i assume the ARM versions are still shit

zstd ftw

I'm really wondering why the fuck the ARM version is so slow tbh, is this just a weakness of Apple Silicon?

1

1:18 PM

5800X, underclocked

exio4@nx-ryzen:~ $ lz4 -e5 -b1;echo '------';zstd -e5 -b1
Benchmarking levels from 1 to 5
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1770.3 MB/s ,11429.4 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1724.9 MB/s ,11433.5 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4560720 (2.193), 129.9 MB/s ,5472.9 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4534386 (2.205), 107.6 MB/s ,5445.2 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4529772 (2.208), 100.2 MB/s ,5411.5 MB/s
------
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154550 (3.170), 754.8 MB/s ,2767.2 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3130467 (3.194), 576.8 MB/s ,2720.3 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3231410 (3.095), 316.2 MB/s ,2191.2 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3346301 (2.988), 268.2 MB/s ,1890.6 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3335646 (2.998), 106.3 MB/s ,1712.3 MB/s
exio4@nx-ryzen:~ $

M2 Max (Battery Saver: Off)

bash-3.2$ lz4 -e5 -b1;echo '------';zstd -e5 -b1
Benchmarking levels from 1 to 5
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1918.9 MB/s ,10959.7 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1926.1 MB/s ,11042.0 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4560720 (2.193), 120.7 MB/s ,5384.5 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4534386 (2.205),  93.4 MB/s ,5354.4 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4529772 (2.208),  83.9 MB/s ,5378.4 MB/s
------
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  969.1 MB/s, 2532.6 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  762.5 MB/s, 2450.9 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  435.3 MB/s, 1895.6 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),  359.2 MB/s, 1735.3 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),  180.5 MB/s, 1697.9 MB/s
bash-3.2$

M2 Max (Battery Saver: On)

bash-3.2$ lz4 -e5 -b1;echo '------';zstd -e5 -b1
Benchmarking levels from 1 to 5
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1897.0 MB/s ,8931.4 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   5859357 (1.707),1323.7 MB/s ,7532.5 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4560720 (2.193),  82.7 MB/s ,3671.4 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4534386 (2.205),  63.8 MB/s ,3663.4 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   4529772 (2.208),  56.8 MB/s ,3645.7 MB/s
------
 1#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3154223 (x3.170),  669.9 MB/s, 1704.8 MB/s
 2#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3129112 (x3.196),  526.4 MB/s  1667.4 MB/s
 3#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3230847 (x3.095),  302.4 MB/s, 1324.5 MB/s
 4#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3345685 (x2.989),  253.3 MB/s, 1215.8 MB/s
 5#Synthetic 50%     :  10000000 ->   3296620 (x3.033),  126.6 MB/s, 1184.6 MB/s
bash-3.2$

That's amazing that you get near 2GB/s in compression on the M2. (AMD Chips aren't that great at zstd btw, phoronix showed that it is only intel and apple that are). (edited)

I get higher performance on the 5800X lol

exio4

I get higher performance on the 5800X lol

wut what

i just sent the results, 1#Synthetic 50% : 10000000 -> 3154550 (3.170), 754.8 MB/s ,2767.2 MB/s | 5800X 1#Synthetic 50% : 10000000 -> 3154223 (x3.170), 969.1 MB/s, 2532.6 MB/s | M2 Max (edited)

I'm seeing that the M2 has better compression speed than the AMD chip

Samueru

I'm seeing that the M2 has better compression speed than the AMD chip

bash-3.2 is the M2 nx-ryzen is the 5800X wait, it is Compression,Decompression; right? I was looking at Decompression, I'm dumb still not happy with the decompression speed tho lol (edited)

exio4

bash-3.2 is the M2 nx-ryzen is the 5800X wait, it is Compression,Decompression; right? I was looking at Decompression, I'm dumb still not happy with the decompression speed tho lol (edited)

Yeah I said compression speed. At that point decompression doesn't matter, you are getting over 2GB/s on a single thread. btw this what I meant with phoronix:

i lost my progress but idk how i just recently repaird my yuzu cuz it was abutbuggy but now after i lostmy saves??

Samueru

Yeah I said compression speed. At that point decompression doesn't matter, you are getting over 2GB/s on a single thread. btw this what I meant with phoronix:

2GB/s is still really low though, this chip has >200GB/s of memory bandwidth lz4 also seems slow (edited)

rizzsensei

i lost my progress but idk how i just recently repaird my yuzu cuz it was abutbuggy but now after i lostmy saves??

Might wanna ask on the support channels. @exio4 My nvme ssd can only do 3GB/s reads, like you would need what, 2 cores to max out most ssds? But I see you're talking about memory now

Samueru

Might wanna ask on the support channels. @exio4 My nvme ssd can only do 3GB/s reads, like you would need what, 2 cores to max out most ssds? But I see you're talking about memory now

the ssd on this thingy can do >7GB/s too

exio4

the ssd on this thingy can do >7GB/s too

3 threads then, and that is assuming you have a workload that would actually do a continous read like that, most will be random where if anything the compression helps instead.

3 threads is 37.5% of the threads i've got meow

exio4

3 threads is 37.5% of the threads i've got meow

It is never going to be an issue my dude.

ik, im more worried about memory compression tbh

Well it is either that or swapping uncompressed data to the ssd which is like no wtf

nah the question is why lz4 doesn’t get to do bigger numbers? iirc its the format used for memory compression (edited)

can't wait for realtime zstd compression on my router, all internet gets reduced automatically (no idea what i'm saying lol)

exio4

nah the question is why lz4 doesn’t get to do bigger numbers? iirc its the format used for memory compression (edited)

Zstd is being made by the same person that made lz4, what has happened is that once again, since 6.0 it has gotten insanely good, like it had a 2X improvement and now lz4 is like shit what do I do lol

Samueru

Zstd is being made by the same person that made lz4, what has happened is that once again, since 6.0 it has gotten insanely good, like it had a 2X improvement and now lz4 is like shit what do I do lol

i mean on mac

exio4

i mean on mac

Could you compare the two again I don't know what the issue is lol

Samueru

Could you compare the two again I don't know what the issue is lol

mac doesn’t offer zstd memory compression

exio4

mac doesn’t offer zstd memory compression

Neither does android, it is a very recent thing where zstd is now viable. edit: lz4 is better than nothing for now I guess. (edited)

Samueru

Neither does android, it is a very recent thing where zstd is now viable. edit: lz4 is better than nothing for now I guess. (edited)

it doesn’t even default to lz4 all the time lol

exio4

it doesn’t even default to lz4 all the time lol

Android iirc it is either lz4, deflate or lzo/lzo-rle. yeah...

Samueru

Android iirc it is either lz4, deflate or lzo/lzo-rle. yeah...

its dynamic on macos afaik, depends on memory pressure

My lineageOS phone came with lz4 by default, nothing else

imo thats the best way to handle it, dynamically choose the algorithm

Nah, just throw zstd at everything and called it a day.

more memory pressure = use more demanding compression methods, little memory pressure= actually use something you can do at 100GB/s easily

exio4

more memory pressure = use more demanding compression methods, little memory pressure= actually use something you can do at 100GB/s easily

The thing is that if there wasn't memory pressure you shouldn't even be compressing/decompressing anything.

Samueru

The thing is that if there wasn't memory pressure you shouldn't even be compressing/decompressing anything.

why? lol you can compress memory to cache files and avoid I/O and memory pressure isnt binary, its dynamic

exio4

why? lol you can compress memory to cache files and avoid I/O and memory pressure isnt binary, its dynamic

I don't know then lol EDIT: There are other kernel parameters that deal with that btw. (edited)

this is macOS right now for example memory pressure is low - there isn't a high demand for lots of memory at once; it compressed memory and has cached lots of stuff

exio4

this is macOS right now for example memory pressure is low - there isn't a high demand for lots of memory at once; it compressed memory and has cached lots of stuff

did you ever had a high memory pressure before that? I've found that only if I play a game, then my kernel does swap some stuff which I assume it is from my non active tasks since my memory pressure is still low. Like right now I have 800MB swapped, and that was because I was gaming a while ago, wouldn't have anything compresed hadn't I done that. EDIT: And I have the swappiness very high btw, even with that it does not swap unless I'm gaming. (edited)

Samueru

did you ever had a high memory pressure before that? I've found that only if I play a game, then my kernel does swap some stuff which I assume it is from my non active tasks since my memory pressure is still low. Like right now I have 800MB swapped, and that was because I was gaming a while ago, wouldn't have anything compresed hadn't I done that. EDIT: And I have the swappiness very high btw, even with that it does not swap unless I'm gaming. (edited)

I guess while starting up apps like that spike there? macOS is very much compressing just in case a lot of times, I'm actually shocked there isn't any swap used too (that tells you memory pressure hasn't been anywhere near even 'yellow')

exio4

I guess while starting up apps like that spike there? macOS is very much compressing just in case a lot of times, I'm actually shocked there isn't any swap used too (that tells you memory pressure hasn't been anywhere near even 'yellow')

yeah linux doesn't swap just because you're idling. There is no spike when starting apps up. But when the kernel had the hugepage bug, I found that starting the web browser with 2GB of ram did cause a small delay because the system began to swap the moment it was opened.

not really feeling it rn apple

Also I tested mounting my entire root to mem a while ago, there was surprisingly no difference, like it only saved 100ms starting the web browser vs using the ssd.

that is because your OS should be using prefetching shit ideally lol also, swapping/compressing because you need memory, like right now now is bad, that is when memory pressure hits yellow & red that hurts latency, you should do it ahead of time (edited)

exio4

that is because your OS should be using prefetching shit ideally lol also, swapping/compressing because you need memory, like right now now is bad, that is when memory pressure hits yellow & red that hurts latency, you should do it ahead of time (edited)

Should've drop caches before testing lol

1:57 PM

But I don't know how much it does, I know ZFS does it for the entire filesystem and achieves better benchmarks, but only that, benchmarks.

i think i need to reboot my speaker

1:58 PM

>no software way to reboot lmao time to find the outlet

exio4

>no software way to reboot lmao time to find the outlet

Turn off the only mcb you have if you can't find it lol

Samueru

But I don't know how much it does, I know ZFS does it for the entire filesystem and achieves better benchmarks, but only that, benchmarks.

a lot of caching is shit, if you're not doing things ahead of time that is why Apple tries to do it ahead of time, because if you need to do it with a tight frametime window your experience is trash and doesn't really improve what do u mean by mcb (edited)

exio4

a lot of caching is shit, if you're not doing things ahead of time that is why Apple tries to do it ahead of time, because if you need to do it with a tight frametime window your experience is trash and doesn't really improve what do u mean by mcb (edited)

By mcb I mean your breaker lol. In linux I don't think there is much caching going on for applications, because for that there's stuff recommended on the arch wiki like preload and gopreload. EDIT: And zfs does it for the whole filesystem, like if you tried to do the crystaldisk benchmark on a zfs partition the results will be insanely good because even though you are not using tmpfs zfs does it automatically lol (edited)

oh i see, no, lol compressing memory with a very lightweight algorithm, just in case, is a great way to have free memory for a new app right on demand even if the compression ratio isn't that good, the idea is that starting a new app, or suddenly loading something will not need you to compress ASAP

exio4

oh i see, no, lol compressing memory with a very lightweight algorithm, just in case, is a great way to have free memory for a new app right on demand even if the compression ratio isn't that good, the idea is that starting a new app, or suddenly loading something will not need you to compress ASAP

https://old.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/mzun99/new_zram_tuning_benchmarks/

From the Fedora community on Reddit: New zram tuning benchmarks

Explore this post and more from the Fedora community

macOS has 2 algorithms, one from the 90s and LZ4 AFAIK also, linux benchmarks for an OS that pro-actively compresses just in case is like bringing up cyberpunk gpu benchmarks for e-sports cpu comparisons macOS doesn't even use LZ4 on intel iirc lol (edited)

exio4

macOS has 2 algorithms, one from the 90s and LZ4 AFAIK also, linux benchmarks for an OS that pro-actively compresses just in case is like bringing up cyberpunk gpu benchmarks for e-sports cpu comparisons macOS doesn't even use LZ4 on intel iirc lol (edited)

When you say for an OS that pro actively compresses you mean macos right?

Samueru

When you say for an OS that pro actively compresses you mean macos right?

yes, the tradeoffs are different, macOS doesn't want to (de)compress the memory you actually use in real-time

I really don't know what macos is doing, the fact that it still uses the physical disk as swap rings an alarm on me lol Or how the needlessly complicated /bin/sh with an universal binary instead of just using a darn symlink lmao.

2:10 PM

Oh boy exio is still typing, should not have said that lol

from what I understand, it works on a tiered system:

normal, uncompressed memory (good)

compressed memory, that you have compressed just in case, or because you want to avoid hitting more I/O - the goal here is speed & latency

=> you don't "care" about compression ratios, memory can be 200GB/s, you aren't decompressing at that speed, so you are nerfing the CPU hard there

compressed, but like heavily compressed [better than real swap, but also not the end of the world]

disk swap [useful to throw some extra stuff you might not need asap, etc]

memory pressure AFAIK is basically a rough % of how much the OS has to work to get normal uncompressed memory yellow is when it is very much forced to use swap to keep latency in check, red is when your latency is shit and the OS is getting unusable after red is OOM

2:13 PM

I think macOS can swap preemptively, and keep the live version in memory compressed, so if it needs to send that to swap, it's basically free, you've already done it windows too? I think? (edited)

Android doesn't use physical swap and even on my 4GB phone I could load mario wonder on yuzu and play a bit, the lz4 compression on zram was just enough to get it going. WIndows is horrible handling memory, it losses againts zRAM with lz4 (WITH LZ4 which has the bad compression ratio!!!) even though windows has the pagefile (edited)

yeah windows is why i kept upgrading my RAM lol I got 2x8GB, thought it'd be as usable as my 8GB macbook, it was trash, did like 15?20?TB of writes in 2-3 months to my SATA SSD or something insane, got another 2x8G kit, and then picked up 2x16 and got rid of an 2x8 kit (edited)

1

Like a while ago there was someone on yuzu general saying that yuzu has to fix their "memory leak bug" because windows was filling out all the pagefile lol. 32GB pagefile iirc (edited)

16 => 32 => 48 all of that just to have the system be responsive, macOS doesn't need any of that lol, 32GB on this laptop is vastly more responsive than 48 on windows, the only case where windows 100% wins is when a single active app needs a big dataset in memory that is just not possible to fit on this laptop's memory

And you will likely be able to get that single app working on linux just fine with less memory and a properly configured zram.

i mean, maybe? the only workloads i've got that truly need memory are LLMs, and those are memory bandwidth benchmarks, gpu & mlock puts me above my 22GB or so of VRAM and performance goes down the shitter after that because macOS starts compressing with the CPU and bandwidth goes down from 400GB/s to 200GB/s and then to 7GB/s off the SSD if i avoid mlock (keep the whole file in memory), and letting macOS just handle it like a memory mapped file, it'll be a bit better (edited)

Only one way to find out then lol

not really, and I don't think they've got GPU acceleration for LLMs on asahi so it'll be a cpu benchmark, where the CPU is like 30% of the speed of the GPU anyway

exio4

not really, and I don't think they've got GPU acceleration for LLMs on asahi so it'll be a cpu benchmark, where the CPU is like 30% of the speed of the GPU anyway

Well gotta go, see ya soon

GPU-only
time to first token: 0.29s | gen t: 10.27s | speed: 48.20 tok/s
time to first token: 0.15s | gen t: 7.01s | speed: 49.70 tok/s

CPU-only
time to first token: 1.92s | gen t: 34.62s | speed: 18.27 tok/s

see ya @Samueru (edited)

@exio4 so turns out the light reflection setting apparently also controls maximum roughness based on the config file and there's an AO quality setting but on the ui it's just on/off, so i guess it's automatically adjusted with GI too (edited)

oh lol that makes sense

That still doesn't explain the bricks, because going by the textures there's rougher areas where the reflections do get applied, and it still seems to ignore the normal map unless you have the highest setting

2:35 PM

RenderingMethod=true ok

"yes, we should render graphics"

That's the native/interlaced switch, I'm guessing they also think native rendering is the only TRUE pixels

2:40 PM

https://github.com/win32ss/supermium yeah bro, keep your xp box connected to the internets

GitHub - win32ss/supermium: Chromium fork for Windows XP/2003 and up

Chromium fork for Windows XP/2003 and up. Contribute to win32ss/supermium development by creating an account on GitHub.

Egdarska

https://github.com/win32ss/supermium yeah bro, keep your xp box connected to the internets

windows 98 was the best windows.

https://youtu.be/-eTSRngwAK0?t=348 soc so bad it even fucks up the camera

Techmo

Snapdragon vs Exynos on Galaxy S24 | Exynos is Burning?

Egdarska

https://youtu.be/-eTSRngwAK0?t=348 soc so bad it even fucks up the camera

typical tbh

exio4

"yes, we should render graphics"

Had to lower textures to 1GB so it won't randomly lower frame rate when vram fills up

2

From a low end 2020 xiaomi smartphone lol

4:31 PM

Half the speed of an FX cpu for zstd lol

what gpu do you recommend for yuzu rtx 3050 or rx 6600

Samueru

From a low end 2020 xiaomi smartphone lol

do u have a place to get static binaries for zstd & lz4 for arm....

exio4

do u have a place to get static binaries for zstd & lz4 for arm....

termux, are you going to try it on the iphone?

no, my moto g9 play & pixel 3a, it comes with these pre-installed? also, what is a good remote desktop solution for android so i dont have to connect my bluetooth keyboard

exio4

no, my moto g9 play & pixel 3a, it comes with these pre-installed? also, what is a good remote desktop solution for android so i dont have to connect my bluetooth keyboard

Just install termux apk from their github repo and do: pkg install zstd pkg install lz4 Done, easy on the touch keyboard

4:58 PM

You can also adb shell thru your pc to your smartphone, but starting it on termux is a bit more complicated

>touch keyboard bro i use gboard does the fdroid version work (edited)

exio4

>touch keyboard bro i use gboard does the fdroid version work (edited)

The F-Droid version has broken mirrors iirc, but you can give it a shot

https://github.com/termux/termux-app/releases downloading the latest version (v0.118.0)

Releases · termux/termux-app

Termux - a terminal emulator application for Android OS extendible by variety of packages. - termux/termux-app

1

5:06 PM

is pkg.. apt-get?

exio4

is pkg.. apt-get?

No idea, I dont use termux much, it pretty much tells you what to do either way lol

Krito

what gpu do you recommend for yuzu rtx 3050 or rx 6600

Krito

6600 for yuzu, i think

i mean i know 6600 is better for gaming than rtx 3050 but for emulation idk if its better (edited)

exio4

is pkg.. apt-get?

pkg is pkg from freebsd

Krito

i mean i know 6600 is better for gaming than rtx 3050 but for emulation idk if its better (edited)

Some games are not playable on vulkan on rdna2 and 3 btw

@Samueru ur phone is faster btw @Krito 3050 punches above its weight but the 6600 is just too much faster for raster, if raw performance is what matters... if you do blender, use the encoder, etc and game compatibility is key, 3050 will actually do better, yeah @__fastcall it installed a .deb, i'm asking about termux's pkg

exio4

@Samueru ur phone is faster btw @Krito 3050 punches above its weight but the 6600 is just too much faster for raster, if raw performance is what matters... if you do blender, use the encoder, etc and game compatibility is key, 3050 will actually do better, yeah @__fastcall it installed a .deb, i'm asking about termux's pkg

oh android, yucky

exio4

@Samueru ur phone is faster btw @Krito 3050 punches above its weight but the 6600 is just too much faster for raster, if raw performance is what matters... if you do blender, use the encoder, etc and game compatibility is key, 3050 will actually do better, yeah @__fastcall it installed a .deb, i'm asking about termux's pkg

Show the result!

exio4

@Samueru ur phone is faster btw @Krito 3050 punches above its weight but the 6600 is just too much faster for raster, if raw performance is what matters... if you do blender, use the encoder, etc and game compatibility is key, 3050 will actually do better, yeah @__fastcall it installed a .deb, i'm asking about termux's pkg

thanks! im going for the rtx 3050

@Samueru

Like 10% slower than my phone, not bad. Thats the pixel or moto?

Moto G9 Play, paid around $100 for it - used, but cheapest way to get 4GB & 64GB (and USB-C)

exio4

Moto G9 Play, paid around $100 for it - used, but cheapest way to get 4GB & 64GB (and USB-C)

Thats ok, my redmi 9 4/64GB was 140 usd in 2020 (edited)

i did buy it from a carrier's used phones page, with their own warranty lol, so i overpaid for it technically booting up my pixel 3a rn (edited)

Wanna see the pixel and if possible the iphone. Like the iphone should even reach +2GB/s

how do i run it on ios tho lol

exio4

how do i run it on ios tho lol

Is it impossible to get something like termux in there?

pretty much impossible yeah you can get VMs and shit kinda but thats gonna have a lot of overhead (edited)

exio4

pretty much impossible yeah you can get VMs and shit kinda but thats gonna have a lot of overhead (edited)

Thats bad, termux doesnt even need root on android for this lol

its bad for running CLI apps, yes

Inb4 sideloading to get a single arm binary to do a benchmark lol

you cant sideload a single binary lol, it has to be an .ipa

5:23 PM

@Samueru pixel 3a

exio4

@Samueru pixel 3a

Cool, similar in zstd and faster in lz4

what is ur soc pixel 3a is snapdragon 670 moto g9 play is snapdragon 662 (edited)

Redmi 9 is Helio G80

i assume the same core type tbh if you find a way to benchmark this on iOS, hmu lol (edited)

Samueru

Redmi 9 is Helio G80

Plenty of new cheap smartphones still use that soc btw

5:28 PM

Now I dont know if I could run the benchmark on the ecore of the smartphone btw. Also I dont know if my cpu scheduler doesnt like termux, games need a turbo thing on android (edited)

funny geekbench numbers lol

Like it is posible all these benchmarks we did were all ran on the ecores lol (edited)

i dont think so, apple e-cores are on a league above everybody else lol

exio4

i dont think so, apple e-cores are on a league above everybody else lol

Android is known for having these quirks where you need to tell it to use the pcores for certain tasks

exio4

funny geekbench numbers lol

Also what is this?

Samueru

Android is known for having these quirks where you need to tell it to use the pcores for certain tasks

you might be on point, but like running on the p-core but downclocked

exio4

you might be on point, but like running on the p-core but downclocked

Yes, thats what I meant when I mentioned the scheduler

the performance is too good for the e-cores, I think my pixel 3a's e-cores should be around 20% of the IPC of Apple's A15 e-cores also, this is the screenshot (edited)

hi guys! if anyone went and is still going in germany to school , i need some help with my surface tablet

exio4

the performance is too good for the e-cores, I think my pixel 3a's e-cores should be around 20% of the IPC of Apple's A15 e-cores also, this is the screenshot (edited)

Ah I see, yes I know this, thats why I said the iphone should wipe the floor on this lol

Samueru

Ah I see, yes I know this, thats why I said the iphone should wipe the floor on this lol

the e-cores on Apple's side are particularly nuts, the p-cores are like.. good yeah, but they use big power to get to peak power, but the e-cores are

exio4

the e-cores on Apple's side are particularly nuts, the p-cores are like.. good yeah, but they use big power to get to peak power, but the e-cores are

Easy 2GB/s then

yes, my laptop and phone both have the same core types lol

5:41 PM

i think my watch is on 7nm so their older e-cores tho

and so is my smart speaker... on tsmc 7nm Noo

@CeruleanMango we're not germans, but what do you need? maybe we can help

i wanna dual boot my surface but its bios locked. and the funny thing is they disabled in the bios the sd card reader too

>According to Apple the SiP has two CPU cores based on the Apple A13 and offers 20% more performance than the old Apple S5 in the Watch Series 5. yeah, i've got A13 e-cores on my watch

CeruleanMango

i wanna dual boot my surface but its bios locked. and the funny thing is they disabled in the bios the sd card reader too

Has mango in their name and a pic of a cat hmmm (sorry you reminded me of someone else in this discord lol)

1

CeruleanMango

i wanna dual boot my surface but its bios locked. and the funny thing is they disabled in the bios the sd card reader too

oh, it's a particular german school thing, rip i dunno how to help there lol

1

Samueru

Has mango in their name and a pic of a cat hmmm (sorry you reminded me of someone else in this discord lol)

im the original mangoest mango, i can assure u of that LUL

CeruleanMango

im the original mangoest mango, i can assure u of that LUL

them be fighting words

1

what cpu core do airpods use

exio4

what cpu core do airpods use

they go to the Intel binning factory, take a knife, and get a tiny sliver of the lowest binned i3s kekflip

exio4

what cpu core do airpods use

Dont you have something like an android based tv where you could also try those benchmarks?

apple documenting this nowhere to be seen lol @Samueru apple TV 4K uses an A15, the same chip as my phone - but with an e-core removed if you mean android device, I only own my pixel 3a & moto g9 play (within my reach, and that boot) (edited)

exio4

apple documenting this nowhere to be seen lol @Samueru apple TV 4K uses an A15, the same chip as my phone - but with an e-core removed if you mean android device, I only own my pixel 3a & moto g9 play (within my reach, and that boot) (edited)

Damn overkill. And yes I meant android since that could run termux

5:50 PM

Inb4 some cheap android tv out there can do 1GB/s like an FX6300 lol

Samueru

Damn overkill. And yes I meant android since that could run termux

apple tv 4k is unironically one of the best value products in the market in overall performance, you can pick the base model for $129 and the one with ethernet (and 128gb storage instead of 64) for $149 in america before tax lol (edited)

5:51 PM

that's basically doing iphone 13/13 mini performance, because it has a bigger heatsink than the phones iirc

mandatory proof their profit margins are insane

1

exio4

apple tv 4k is unironically one of the best value products in the market in overall performance, you can pick the base model for $129 and the one with ethernet (and 128gb storage instead of 64) for $149 in america before tax lol (edited)

Cool

GoldenX86_64

mandatory proof their profit margins are insane

they lost money on homepods & sold the older Apple TV at cost... for more money - https://9to5mac.com/2019/02/02/apple-tv-homepod-margins/ just fwiw, lol they just have a console-like approach to them for ~ecosystem purposes~, instead of their phones where they make money on them at decent margins + rent-seeking (edited)

5:55 PM

 wait, there's an Apple emoji? how does this look on other platforms? https://emojipedia.org/apple-logo

 Apple Logo Emoji

The logo for Apple Inc is a Private Use Area (PUA) character that is supported on iOS and macOS. This character is not recommended for interchange as it is...

Kek

5:58 PM

broken on Windows lol

5:59 PM

safari doesn't render the apple emoji.... lol only chrome does https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comments/16phcyc/just_got_an_apple_4k_tv_yesterday_why_didnt_i_get/ reddit does render it on safari (edited)

From the appletv community on Reddit: Just got an Apple 4K tv yeste...

Explore this post and more from the appletv community

google chad?

6:00 PM

that's rare

but not on windows

exio4

but not on windows

That kinda looks like an apple

i wish apple tv were a thing here in argentina would be sick to have a tv box that doesn't take 3 minutes to boot

truth

GoldenX86_64

truth

or is spyware i recommend the cheapest chromecasts and using phones here lol

yeah those boxes are just spyware

GoldenX86_64

yeah those boxes are just spyware

great value tho

lies

6:19 PM

did you look at their price?

6:19 PM

literally 100 bucks

what are the alternatives? it's what you have, at that price bracket, you know, something something apple dropped the low-end market wait let me read the log and your arguments and copy them later

rtx 3050 for 223 dollars its ok? or too expensive

where are you from?

exio4

what are the alternatives? it's what you have, at that price bracket, you know, something something apple dropped the low-end market wait let me read the log and your arguments and copy them later

plugging the laptop

hope it lasts a whole movie

exio4

 wait, there's an Apple emoji? how does this look on other platforms? https://emojipedia.org/apple-logo

Doesn't work on Android for me

exio4

hope it lasts a whole movie

linux my dude, 7 hours of video

6:33 PM

thank you microsoft

what about the display engine lol

wayland on intel runs well, it's not nvidia

6:34 PM

no tearing, no stuttering

@Krito 223 in america sounds fine i think, it's the 8GB edition right? don't get the 6GB one by accident

GoldenX86_64

wayland on intel runs well, it's not nvidia

display engine's power consumption i meant

i get more battery life than browsing, 7 hours

6:37 PM

vs 4-5

6:37 PM

we watched two movies on it

6:37 PM

plus, how hard is it to plug in a laptop, you have to do it for the apple tv too

6:38 PM

150 bucks doesn't give you a battery

... the apple tv is always plugged in

is there a normal laptop that can play the LotR trilogy in one charge? extended edition

Egdarska

is there a normal laptop that can play the LotR trilogy in one charge? extended edition

asking google, less than 12 hours? that's not even a lot today lol

6:40 PM

you don't even need a macbook for 12 hours of pure video playback...

at the price they ask for those tv boxes, you either go chromecast (you better have a good phone), or just use a laptop/pc

exio4

you don't even need a macbook for 12 hours of pure video playback...

on windows tho

2 wires is no problem for regular human beings

GoldenX86_64

at the price they ask for those tv boxes, you either go chromecast (you better have a good phone), or just use a laptop/pc

Most overpriced streaming box I've ever seen

exio4

@Krito 223 in america sounds fine i think, it's the 8GB edition right? don't get the 6GB one by accident

yes its the 8gb edition bro

Do iPhones even have a DeX-like solution for casting or wired displays, or is it literally just the standard phone on a big screen?

iirc they do

6:44 PM

and it's a much better one

Ah, guess it just doesn't work on my "cheap" most modern iPad Mini 6th Generation livereaction

there's a compatibility list for this, exio must jknow it

@Egdarska 6800U should do 12 hours on a big battery without a dGPU but macbooks will do 20+ hours on it with lower Wh, just remember to turn off the keyboard backlight

@GoldenX86_64 all of these suck in how user friendly they are, but you don't need a good phone tho, it's surprisingly fine with anything @Krito sick, seems fine then @Moonlacer what do u mean by overpriced? the apple tv or the android tv boxes? apple tv 4k is pretty well priced for a tv box, it's basically the TV box equivalent of comparing a RX 3060 vs the 6500 XT android tv boxes are usually very cheap but trash, or you get nvidia shield which .. is like.. you know, not competitive, and expensive lol @Moonlacer they don't do DeX-like stuff, it's just screen mirroring, only got 1 display engine; but AirPlay for casting is way better than Miracast/Google's solution, in some apps, e.g. you can cast a presentation from Apple's Keynote with extremely low latency, etc - it's just.. that you're into their ecosystem, it's trash elsewhere usually before anybody mentions "apple doing a weird backward solutions", video AirPlay existed before MiraCast, by like 4 years lol, audio AirPlay by like 10 years - they still should adopted some form of compatibility tho

Shield is dead too, iirc

So it doesn't support fullscreen display casting livereaction

it does support fullscreen screen mirroring, it's just standard phone on big screen like you said

But will it be 16:9, or just whatever aspect ratio the device has?

phone aspect ratio

I used Airplay more than most about 6-8 years ago, but as soon as DeX and YouTube streaming from device happened I never used it again. The YouTube method is obviously different than DeX, because it basically just sends the exact URL to the TV and it loads it natively there, AFAIK (edited)

ok so dex is "better" for a desktop use

6:54 PM

compression, but i get windows

(if you can live with android apps' behavior there too)

it's nowhere close to ideal

6:54 PM

a 4gb linux laptop is better kek

Meanwhile I can stream my phone to a display and Play Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in 16:9 livereaction

dude smash off a phone feels weird

6:55 PM

"here's a faster, silent switch"

does samsung have special wifi shit for casting? on my pixel 3a & motorola (yeah, budget phones) the latency made them unusable for real-time stuff (edited)

There is a small performance loss while casting, but when the game is easy to run it's just fine

they have some weird protocol, but i doubt the wifi has anything special

If you have decent networking stuff the latency is fine

airplay is kinda mid, because it is only peer to peer if you're not connected to wifi lol

The ultimate solution

neither solution is a true desktop, sadly

7:00 PM

old dex offered running a linux distro, that was perfect

7:00 PM

budget cuts killed it

7:01 PM

man when are we getting the official steamos release

sonic dream team (on the phone, streamed to the laptop) sonic dream team (natively on the laptop) both on the monitor just for context

7:05 PM

(both at 100% resolution scaling, assuming the mac is rendering at 2160p, the phone at 1080p?)

7:07 PM

phone screenshot

GoldenX86_64

"here's a faster, silent switch"

And it fits better in your pocket!

GoldenX86_64

neither solution is a true desktop, sadly

Yeah, unfortunately. But that's the future I imagine, one device to rule them all

7:32 PM

If devices were powerful enough and apps supported standard aspect ratios, you could absolutely do basic video/photo editing or gaming on them (edited)

Awesomeangotti

And it fits better in your pocket!

Like a real Nintendo handheld of old

I want someone else's opinion to see if i'm just crazy, even though the art styles are very different, does it seem to anyone else like the banner for state of mind is "heavily influenced" by quantum break?

@exio4 https://youtu.be/t-3PkRbeO8A?t=316 Let's fucking gooo

Digital Foundry

Alan Wake 2 PC Re-Tested: Massive Perf Boost on GTX 10-Series 'Pasc...

i cant watch that, remedy optimizing for pascal hurts my feelings fr

1

exio4

i cant watch that, remedy optimizing for pascal hurts my feelings fr

1080 ti relevant for gaming fr

exio4

i cant watch that, remedy optimizing for pascal hurts my feelings fr

finewine only matters for new stuff be like kek

8:48 PM

this is good news not only for pascal lovers, but for igpu users too

alan wake on vega 7, not to be confused with radeon Vega VII (edited)

vega 3

did they optimize the mesh shader path too? or just vertex

most likely just vertex

8:49 PM

now i wanna see xe + fsr3 mod doing 15 fps

exio4

did they optimize the mesh shader path too? or just vertex

seems just vertex, but there's some performance improvement on modern gpus too

now i can stop calling it a good game tech demo

when you're so insane that running on 7 year old GPUs is what defines something as a tech demo or not can you tell me what you smoke smh

shit market you defend

8:52 PM

damn, first game that has maxwell v2 specific issues

exio4

i cant watch that, remedy optimizing for pascal hurts my feelings fr

60fps on a 1080 ti 720p low/med settings

1070 doing 30

8:54 PM

god damn the 580 does bad

8:55 PM

rdna1 doing better than pascal, top kek

1070 doing 30 is too much for my feelings

what's the 1650 pulling here?

exio4

1070 doing 30 is too much for my feelings

how about the 1060 doing 30 with ps5 performance settings? also that's the forest, the rest of the game probably does better (edited)

1

nooo my tech demo game now supports old hardware, i've been betrayed by big gpu

whenever i was doing like 40 in the forest it was almost locked 60 everywhere else

8:59 PM

How old is the rx 5700? It's doing 1060 numbers lol

GoldenX86_64

nooo my tech demo game now supports old hardware, i've been betrayed by big gpu

i dont even own it, its an epic exclusive, but id rather devs spend time optimizing for modern hardware

player base is critical, and studios are realising it people are not upgrading GPUs as fast as before because the market is TRASH

you still need modern hardware to play the game as it should look tho.

that is done, it's a pretty AF game on modern GPUs

why didn't they test the 750 ti?

the 970 was beat by the 580, no point on it

GoldenX86_64

player base is critical, and studios are realising it people are not upgrading GPUs as fast as before because the market is TRASH

you're gonna be coping in 10 years when transistors haven't gotten cheaper, and it'll be even more boring

we all move to consoles then

9:02 PM

pc gaming will be dead if a GPU costs 500 bucks for 15 fps

lol, the 750 ti was getting 6fps at 720p low before the patch, it should be an easy 10 now, almost 18 with fsr3 mod

that's the trick, NVIDIA will do AI enhanced reprojection and it'll be fine™️ for the people that aren't "native resolution" copers

and charge 500 bucks for an 8gb card

it's ok, by then AMD will finally caught up to the 3060 in blender, and have turing-level encoders with broken AV2 support but AV1 now finally works (oh, and H264 is finally upgraded) (edited)

it will nicely complement his 2030 8GB phone

exio4

it's ok, by then AMD will finally caught up to the 3060 in blender, and have turing-level encoders with broken AV2 support but AV1 now finally works (oh, and H264 is finally upgraded) (edited)

your level of elitism and coping is sometimes amazing

GoldenX86_64

your level of elitism and coping is sometimes amazing

amd being unable to make a good card isn't elitism lol

no but declaring shit will be more expensive to look the same is

9:06 PM

remembwe when we had steve jobists, or stalmanists, or bill gatists? we're in the era of the jensenists now (edited)

it's not my fault the only company making GPUs right now is NVIDIA lol

that's not elitism, just realistic, if amd doesn't get their shit together and neither does intel, nvidia will keep not having any reason to be better

1

and that justifies making games impossible to access to people

9:07 PM

the clear winner from this video is again the ps5

9:07 PM

that shouldn't be the case

exio4

it's ok, by then AMD will finally caught up to the 3060 in blender, and have turing-level encoders with broken AV2 support but AV1 now finally works (oh, and H264 is finally upgraded) (edited)

based

"we're celebrating things getting more expensive"

no, that's just how games work, there have been moments in the past too where newer games required hardware that old gpus/agps didn't have

Egdarska

no, that's just how games work, there have been moments in the past too where newer games required hardware that old gpus/agps didn't have

yeah, back when a high end new card was 300 bucks

9:08 PM

not 2000 (edited)

9:08 PM

where is your 4090

and that's partly amd's fault, isn't it? they had ample time to compete reminder that they had a chance to undercut nvidia with the 7900xtx by pricing competitively according to its performance but they got greedy instead (edited)

same for intel

9:09 PM

so being in favour of the monopoly is good

9:09 PM

all hail nvidia

GPUs have gotten faster over the years, just not at pure raster, if you want to laugh - fill rate has stagnated for like 15 decades already, on all brands, why? because optimizing a horse doesn't get you a car FP16, mesh shaders, RT, tensor, are all the shit that make for a proper next-gen experience (edited)

faster yes, accesible, no

I wonder if my 2080 will have any gains in AW2

it shouldn't have massive gains, just whatever they found out along the way, 2080 is not architecturally obsolete lol

1

whatever drivers add and they tweaked i guess, 2080 is still in the relevant pile

GoldenX86_64

the clear winner from this video is again the ps5

PS5, Xbox Series S (the console americans buy for $150 used, the whole box), XSX, all have more advanced architectures than Pascal for raster gaming this isn't a cope, it's just a fact

that's my point, pc gaming is dead

lol

you either spend a grand on a pc, or go for scraps

In a cave

it isn't dead, NVIDIA offers above console experiences, a 3060 12G can do better than PS5 visuals easily, and even a 4060 can in plenty of games that get their streaming right lol (it's called DLSS) (edited)

why do you think the 4060 didn't get a super refresh? mid end is on its last leg

GoldenX86_64

you either spend a grand on a pc, or go for scraps

or game on integrated, you don't need high settings and native resolution to game

yeah, if you land in igpu zone, amd is the only option sadly

9:13 PM

nvidia stopped making good low end cards long ago

but once you go into integrated, amd is suddenly a good option, because you weren't going to do anything else on that igpu anyway

AMD is the copium in the dGPU market rn, it's buying a Bulldozer "quad core" because it has better multithreading than the pentium it competes with

The 1060 never got a Ti

exio4

AMD is the copium in the dGPU market rn, it's buying a Bulldozer "quad core" because it has better multithreading than the pentium it competes with

where is the modern 1050

9:14 PM

where is a sub 75w card that can actually run games for 150 bucks or less

9:14 PM

oops, 400 bucks for entry!

i'm sorry @GoldenX86_64 but have you never heard of INFLATION lmao prices of everything in USD worldwide went through the roof the last 5 years, and the pandemic skyrocketed them further phones have stagnated on the low-end for like half a decade too, because the raw costs don't go lower, then go up (edited)

even adjusting for inflation doesn't justify the XX60 series of nvidia

9:15 PM

or the 3050

I think the bottom tier is still a bit too high for the 60s, yeah

GoldenX86_64

oops, 400 bucks for entry!

that seems about right, adjusted for inflation that's an old $220 card

it's garbage

Egdarska

that seems about right, adjusted for inflation that's an old $220 card

220 was a 70 class card

9:15 PM

it's not just inflation, that's jensen's meme

9:16 PM

he's taking more profits

Nah the 1070 was more than that

1060, $299 MSRP in 2016

wonder what's the starting price for a 1060 now, 192 bit, 16x slot card

9:17 PM

oh, it's the 4070

GoldenX86_64

220 was a 70 class card

what year are you talking about? gtx 260 was $400, 570 was $350 (edited)

saw 320, my bad kek

9:19 PM

still, we're down one tier at least in the mid end, and the low end is murdered saying new tech should be the priority on a market that refuses to upgrade from pascal or a 1650 is elitist

you're deranged if you think bus width and pcie bus size alone make up for the GPU tier 8x cards now have the same PCIe bandwidth, and 192 bit with L3 and GDDR6 are a fuckton more effective bandwidth the reason that those got nerfed is because wafers are expensive as fuck, and the analog shit has stuck the same size for like a decade (engineers had to get creative and make the PCIe bus faster, and nerf the size to make the GPUs happen) (edited)

yet the moment a 4060 with 8gb runs out of ram, it turns into trash

9:20 PM

and dlss, framegen, won't help it

9:20 PM

core features matter to ensure the usability of new tech and mid end is trash now

9:20 PM

but god forbid games get optimized for the rest of gamers

you're ignoring inflation in USD exists, you're stuck in thinking $150 is the target price, when the costs of aluminium, manufacturing a heatsink, etc all have been linked to inflation the price floor has been raised, why don't you complain about $30 CPUs having stagnated? it's the same logic, you can think of why the $100 phones have pretty much stagnated too (edited)

I think I’d love a 4080 … two years from now

the price floor has raised, that still doesn't justify the 4060 and 3050

9:22 PM

you're using inflation as an excuse

9:22 PM

"oh yeah we are losing profits, so let's release the 6gb 96 bit 3050"

these two are on AMD

"oh yeah, let's re-release ada with the super series, what should have been at launch, because we totally couldn't do it before"

9:23 PM

don't justify bad corpo practices

AMD released the XTX for $999 kek

both corporations are shit, at least one of them sells working GPUs, and not 1082p crap that struggles to compete with 5 year architectures in core functionality NVIDIA would release another 1080 Ti if AMD didn't suffer from a severe case of skill issue (edited)

amd is a joke, we all know that but intel got dunked by the 4 cores meme era and nvidia gets praised, that's elitism at max

GoldenX86_64

don't justify bad corpo practices

If they had competition it wouldn't be an issue. I always find it funny to get mad at nvidia for doing shit corpo stuff, and not amd for letting them.

amd is chronically insane, they have a 5:1 pendulum on releasing good stuff intel came late for the mining craze and is starting late for the ai battle, while still not giving a damn about drivers meanwhile, the ai chads are singing praises about nvidia instead of asking for a better market (edited)

GoldenX86_64

amd is a joke, we all know that but intel got dunked by the 4 cores meme era and nvidia gets praised, that's elitism at max

Again, the thing is nvidia is making hardware that is usable, it doesn't matter what i think about the company, i need to buy their gpus, even if i'd really rather not give them money. It's like exio using a meme laptop, it's the only one that has the stuff he needs.

usable but expensive AF

Truth is that Nvidia just don't offer budget alternative

so it's fine as long as it's apple

GoldenX86_64

so it's fine as long as it's apple

No, it's not fine, but what are you going to do, buy a shittier product from another multi billion dollar corporation to stick it to the other one?

I would love to see a 4050 for desktop even if is not as cheap as the 3050 (edited)

or complain about the issues with each release instead of drinking the koolaid

GoldenX86_64

what's the 1650 pulling here?

decided to actually read the backlog of a chatroom this time, saw this, and while i cannot answer it myself i dont own AW2, 1650 supports mesh shaders, so it doesnt have to rely on cruddy performing vertex shading. iirc i saw some results at around 30fps at 1080p FSR2 Q low settings, but it could be better, could be worse!

1

GoldenX86_64

amd is a joke, we all know that but intel got dunked by the 4 cores meme era and nvidia gets praised, that's elitism at max

Intel stagnated on the "high-end", they released the same shit NVIDIA hasn't

Turing was a massive leap (price/$ stagnated for old raster shit, the architecture was a massive leap, finewine happened)
Ampere was a leap in (perf/$, shitty vram and efficiency, but compute went through the roof)
Ada was a leap, in compute, encoder, OFA, efficiency, yes, not raw raster performance for old games, but DLSS is now basically free across the stack, and the demanding shit is ray reconstruction & frame gen, etc caring exclusively about raster perf/$ is like optimizing for fixed funtion hardware in the era of programmable shaders

ada is the best architecture on GPUs, ever and the worst product stack ever from NVIDIA

i do complain a lot, i don't know where you're coming from

exio4

Intel stagnated on the "high-end", they released the same shit NVIDIA hasn't

Turing was a massive leap (price/$ stagnated for old raster shit, the architecture was a massive leap, finewine happened)
Ampere was a leap in (perf/$, shitty vram and efficiency, but compute went through the roof)
Ada was a leap, in compute, encoder, OFA, efficiency, yes, not raw raster performance for old games, but DLSS is now basically free across the stack, and the demanding shit is ray reconstruction & frame gen, etc caring exclusively about raster perf/$ is like optimizing for fixed funtion hardware in the era of programmable shaders

where is framegen for the 3050

Egdarska

i do complain a lot, i don't know where you're coming from

you're fine, look at exio

9:29 PM

the apple ideology blackhole got him (edited)

GoldenX86_64

where is framegen for the 3050

it doesn't have the OFA compute for it, do you ask for AV1 encoding on it too? the OFA hardware is a coprocessor out of the media engine (edited)

why no framegen using tensors? fsr3 has passable framegen on compute

9:30 PM

why the gatekeeping

9:30 PM

that kind of mentality is what ruins it

all framegen looks uggo to me, but its all like within a very small margin for all current frame gen techniques that i know of. there is no way a 3050 cant do NVIDIA-made frame gen.

they already have the tech to do it, they just gatekeep it to drive sales to ada

i do expect a shittier framegen for old rtx cards to be a thing at some point, probably once 5xxx series drops and it has predictive reflex or some shit

at this point i'm not surprised if nvidia decides to remove direct3d, opengl and vulkan support, do a compat layer through nvn and demand games to only support nvn (edited)

I just tried frame gen in Like a Dragon Gaiden and for me was near perfect And yeah, Nvidia is clearly gatekeeping, great products, horrendous policy

GoldenX86_64

at this point i'm not surprised if nvidia decides to remove direct3d, opengl and vulkan support, do a compat layer through nvn and demand games to only support nvn (edited)

we back to the 90s baby

no AIB partners, tech being gatekeeped, what year is it!

9:33 PM

damn, i've been downloading holoiso for hours

why doesn't my Turing GPU do AV1 decode? or AV1 encoding? why doesn't Pascal do mesh shaders? why doesn't TeraScale do Vulkan? why doesn't the 6500 XT encode videos? why doesn't my 5800X do AVX-512? that is the question for how DLSS3 is implemented now Tensor is for matrix multiplication, bro, it doesn't "do" OFA - you'd need to do OFA through matrix multiplication, find a real-time machine learning model that does it (fixed function hardware is much faster at that) FSR3 is also much lower quality than DLSS3, don't cope about it, NVIDIA could make a lower quality version tho, they have the engineering know-how for it I'm not defending DLSS3 being Ada exclusive, I'm saying that anybody that thinks that DLSS3 in its current form, with its level of quality could run in older hardware is what I call "clueless"

thank you github

exio4

why doesn't my Turing GPU do AV1 decode? or AV1 encoding? why doesn't Pascal do mesh shaders? why doesn't TeraScale do Vulkan? why doesn't the 6500 XT encode videos? why doesn't my 5800X do AVX-512? that is the question for how DLSS3 is implemented now Tensor is for matrix multiplication, bro, it doesn't "do" OFA - you'd need to do OFA through matrix multiplication, find a real-time machine learning model that does it (fixed function hardware is much faster at that) FSR3 is also much lower quality than DLSS3, don't cope about it, NVIDIA could make a lower quality version tho, they have the engineering know-how for it I'm not defending DLSS3 being Ada exclusive, I'm saying that anybody that thinks that DLSS3 in its current form, with its level of quality could run in older hardware is what I call "clueless"

youhave no excuse for a lack of framegen on tensor or compute, don't invent excuses

9:34 PM

amd did a generic universal framegen that works on basic compute

9:34 PM

nvidia "can't"

9:34 PM

jensenist

apple tomorrow could do frame gen entirely on compute on Apple Silicon, no "optical flow accelerator", no Neural Engine use, and it could be the shittiest implementation of all time and exio would probably eat it up like it's the future

AMD's frame generation is trash quality next to DLSS3 dude, you're comparing DLSS Quality to FSR2 Performance in the quality of generated frames, using a much more inferior version to argue an improved version is gatekeep is just insane do you think that PS5-only exclusives games are also "excuses" because they could stll port them to PS3?

Man i can't understand anything that yall are talking about

LukeTheVideoGamer

apple tomorrow could do frame gen entirely on compute on Apple Silicon, no "optical flow accelerator", no Neural Engine use, and it could be the shittiest implementation of all time and exio would probably eat it up like it's the future

nah, he's aware metalfx is trash

MetalFX is a cope, the only reason it's competitive is that it is for phones, and there's nothing else lol also, if it is a phone-version, you have phone expectations, and artifacts are on another level for the screen size; I dig FSR2 on my m*c because at 1900p on a 14" display, you kinda don't notice the shimmering nowhere near as much (edited)

exio4

AMD's frame generation is trash quality next to DLSS3 dude, you're comparing DLSS Quality to FSR2 Performance in the quality of generated frames, using a much more inferior version to argue an improved version is gatekeep is just insane do you think that PS5-only exclusives games are also "excuses" because they could stll port them to PS3?

You're mixing sr there to drive your point

9:39 PM

You used the fsr3 dlss mod and said it was decent

yeah, it's decent, it's still nowhere near the quality of DLSS3

Framegen of fsr3 is better than no nvidia option

GoldenX86_64

You used the fsr3 dlss mod and said it was decent

that's using dlss as base, not fsr2

1

Where is the nvidia option?

Egdarska

that's using dlss as base, not fsr2

Shows how good nvidia can do it (edited)

9:40 PM

Yet nothing

GoldenX86_64

Where is the nvidia option?

available now for $599 US Dollars, $659 dollars Canadian kek

Exactly

GoldenX86_64

Yet nothing

They kinda don't have to yet, they don't feel threatened by amd's fsr3 The day amd gets competitive and forces them to do it, it will happen, I'd be surprised if they don't have it ready right now. (edited)

Ah no but according to exio, it's impossible

FSR3 from AMD is useless to me, they force FSR2 and FSR2 is useless at 1440p 27" - I need to use community mods to get DLSS, and on the steamdeck, FSR2 is useless, XeSS FTW NVIDIA's Frame Gen is actually high enough quality on my friend's 4070 Ti that I cannot tell it is enabled in a lot of games (on the artifacts front, visually, at 130-140 fps final) I'd love to see FSR3 but with Tensor magic, I'd accept it'd be lower quality tho - like XeSS DP4a vs XeSS XMX

GoldenX86_64

Ah no but according to exio, it's impossible

dlss3 on generic hardware is not possible, a shittier solution is.

1

Where is it

Egdarska

dlss3 on generic hardware is not possible, a shittier solution is.

dlss3 is already shitty, imo not much loss in making a "shittier" version for "the plebs without optical flow accelerators"

tech bob ross will release the one from the labs when AMD releases a good GPU, just wait, next gen is the one

Better sell trash 4060s tho

GoldenX86_64

Where is it

Where is amd's competition that forces them to release it? Companies don't exist in a vacuum, they need competition to improve.

So the corpo only cares about cash, shocking

9:43 PM

Meanwhile, the gaming market is used 1060s, igpus, consoles, or the rich with a 4080

??

GoldenX86_64

So the corpo only cares about cash, shocking

i don't even know what this argument is, you're arguing against the reality of the market?

9:45 PM

this isn't a "it's good/bad" thing, just a statement of fact, nvidia has no incentive to release a generic frame gen unless they feel like it's needed to retain market share, amd has nothing competing with them so they don't do it.

3060, 1650, 2060, <1060>, 3070, 3060 Ti, 3060 Laptop, 3050, 4060 Laptop, <1050 Ti>, 1660 Super, 3080, 4070 (continued: 4060, AMD Radeon Graphics) https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam RTX is mainstream already, you're ignoring that most of the world isn't as fucked financially as argentina

9:46 PM

yeah, I know, it's the steam survey, it's inaccurate, blabla, it's still a rough guess to tell you that the 1060 is less relevant than the 3060, or 2060 for that matter, or hell, the 1650 even

exio4

3060, 1650, 2060, <1060>, 3070, 3060 Ti, 3060 Laptop, 3050, 4060 Laptop, <1050 Ti>, 1660 Super, 3080, 4070 (continued: 4060, AMD Radeon Graphics) https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam RTX is mainstream already, you're ignoring that most of the world isn't as fucked financially as argentina

Pascal still going

9:47 PM

those top places actually look more current than previous steam surveys lol

1060 will be "forever relevant" for e-sports like titles tho, i get that one, those games need to run on a toaster (edited)

mfs in 2047 will be running dota 3 on a 1060 at 60fps

1

but remedy optimizing for pascal is ???, like, the game costs what, 60? 70 bucks? buy 2 AAA games less every year and you can afford a used 2060

I'm just glad i can run it on my fx 6300+1060 now :^)

tbh we should not be happy until Remedy ports Alan Wake 2 to PS3. the PS2 port should be glorious

can't wait for the Nintendo 64 version, games truly peaked on the SNES tho

i wonder how good the cell spus are at matrix math

Egdarska

I'm just glad i can run it on my fx 6300+1060 now :^)

btw did you see that Apple's e-cores are around the same speed of the FX 6300 for compression? lol (per core/thread, not overall performance)

1

exio4

but remedy optimizing for pascal is ???, like, the game costs what, 60? 70 bucks? buy 2 AAA games less every year and you can afford a used 2060

$50, and even then, some people, especially those with a 1080 class card, might not feel the need to upgrade. they get decent enough performance in all their other games now, and with Alan Wake II finally getting better performance for Pascal, their reasons to upgrade went down by one. personally, if i spent $700, $800 on just a GTX 1080 Ti back when it was new, i'd want to milk that shit for as long as i possibly could (edited)

exio4

btw did you see that Apple's e-cores are around the same speed of the FX 6300 for compression? lol (per core/thread, not overall performance)

That low?

LukeTheVideoGamer

$50, and even then, some people, especially those with a 1080 class card, might not feel the need to upgrade. they get decent enough performance in all their other games now, and with Alan Wake II finally getting better performance for Pascal, their reasons to upgrade went down by one. personally, if i spent $700, $800 on just a GTX 1080 Ti back when it was new, i'd want to milk that shit for as long as i possibly could (edited)

they haven't got good performance in like 3-4 years bro, unless they exclusively played older games lol also, Pascal is still eating shit on this game, it's running it at cringe settings @Egdarska e-cores using like 400-500mW (it's like 700mW for the all the CPU clusters, but that includes discord, the terminal, macOS, etc) vs whatever the FX used on single core workloads (edited)

My 6300 at 4.2GHz was using around 180W with p95, so that's about 30 per core, let's say 25 if we're not counting all the other parts of the chip, how much was the e-core using, 0.3W? Oh lol. (edited)

I assume 0.2-0.5W of a range, you can usually downclock them a bit and get more efficiency etc etc, so yeah, 2 orders of magnitude more power on the FX cores lol this is also M2, not M3, where they did another 20% or so improvement lol (edited)

so like a 2,000% efficiency improvement give or take (edited)

exio4

they haven't got good performance in like 3-4 years bro, unless they exclusively played older games lol also, Pascal is still eating shit on this game, it's running it at cringe settings @Egdarska e-cores using like 400-500mW (it's like 700mW for the all the CPU clusters, but that includes discord, the terminal, macOS, etc) vs whatever the FX used on single core workloads (edited)

hey, i never said anything about the performance bein good, only about acceptable levels of performance. also, who the fuck cares about "cringe settings" if i can see two feet in front of me and can get more than 30fps it's performant enough for me.

The point is that there are people who still think they're relevant. You can technically run modern games on a 460, it doesn't mean it will be good, but if you personally can play like that that's ok for you.

Egdarska

My 6300 at 4.2GHz was using around 180W with p95, so that's about 30 per core, let's say 25 if we're not counting all the other parts of the chip, how much was the e-core using, 0.3W? Oh lol. (edited)

wait, btw, you know the 6300 is more of a "single core with weirdly-segmented hyperthreading" right, the lawsuit was stupid on how they argued for it, but the amd lie was real but it's more like 40+W per core

@LukeTheVideoGamer $400 every 4 years gets you a better gaming experience over time than $800 every 8, I'm pretty sure lol (edited)

i realized my 1060 was struggling when i played doom eternal, the "runs on potatoes" game, and had drops to the 50s at 1080p high

exio4

wait, btw, you know the 6300 is more of a "single core with weirdly-segmented hyperthreading" right, the lawsuit was stupid on how they argued for it, but the amd lie was real but it's more like 40+W per core

@LukeTheVideoGamer $400 every 4 years gets you a better gaming experience over time than $800 every 8, I'm pretty sure lol (edited)

yeah, it's technically 6 cores*, but each cluster of 2 cores shares some math units, so they can't be used at the same time, so it's even worse than just a hyperthreaded 3 core

i actually can't wait so hard for DLSS Reprojection it'll be fucking wild when we are rendering games at 720p40 on a laptop, and reprojection to 1440p240 lol (edited)

exio4

wait, btw, you know the 6300 is more of a "single core with weirdly-segmented hyperthreading" right, the lawsuit was stupid on how they argued for it, but the amd lie was real but it's more like 40+W per core

@LukeTheVideoGamer $400 every 4 years gets you a better gaming experience over time than $800 every 8, I'm pretty sure lol (edited)

I actually got my 1060 on sale for $250, lasted me 6 years

exio4

i actually can't wait so hard for DLSS Reprojection it'll be fucking wild when we are rendering games at 720p40 on a laptop, and reprojection to 1440p240 lol (edited)

reprojection doesnt even need to be run on tensor cores to be good what the fuck are you smoking

Egdarska

I actually got my 1060 on sale for $250, lasted me 6 years

yea I mean, i picked my 2060 super for $330 ish, and a 4060 (if available for $300) would still be an upgrade for gaming lol @LukeTheVideoGamer it doesn't need it, but it would benefit for better image quality

it wouldnt significantly impact image quality if it was handled on tensor over just standard CUDA or whatever. how do i know? BECAUSE REPROJECTION IS ALREADY USED IN VR IT CAN BE DONE ON A PHONE PROCESSOR

exio4

yea I mean, i picked my 2060 super for $330 ish, and a 4060 (if available for $300) would still be an upgrade for gaming lol @LukeTheVideoGamer it doesn't need it, but it would benefit for better image quality

I still kinda wish i'd waited a couple months to buy the laptop with a 4060

LukeTheVideoGamer

it wouldnt significantly impact image quality if it was handled on tensor over just standard CUDA or whatever. how do i know? BECAUSE REPROJECTION IS ALREADY USED IN VR IT CAN BE DONE ON A PHONE PROCESSOR

??? reprojection in VR is extremely low quality, and even on a phone processor it has a massive frametime cost when done half-decently, Quest 2 needs like 6 ms to do AppSW lol (to do frame doubling) DLSS on my 2060 Super has a 1ms cost from 720p to 1440p, and that's old hardware now, 4080 is <0.3ms (edited)

six milliseconds--dude are you fucking hearing yourself? SIX milliseconds is literally ONE FRAME at 120hz. LESS THAN HALF OF A FRAME at 60hz. you dont need baby daddy Jensen to come down from heaven himself and grace your stupid outdated Turing GPU with AI accelerated reprojection just for it to be """""good"""""

exio4

??? reprojection in VR is extremely low quality, and even on a phone processor it has a massive frametime cost when done half-decently, Quest 2 needs like 6 ms to do AppSW lol (to do frame doubling) DLSS on my 2060 Super has a 1ms cost from 720p to 1440p, and that's old hardware now, 4080 is <0.3ms (edited)

>6ms bruh

LukeTheVideoGamer

six milliseconds--dude are you fucking hearing yourself? SIX milliseconds is literally ONE FRAME at 120hz. LESS THAN HALF OF A FRAME at 60hz. you dont need baby daddy Jensen to come down from heaven himself and grace your stupid outdated Turing GPU with AI accelerated reprojection just for it to be """""good"""""

Is your point that 6ms isn't a lot? because that's hilarious.

Egdarska

Is your point that 6ms isn't a lot? because that's hilarious.

no, it really isnt. could it be way better? yeah! does it NEED to be in the DLSS suite to actually be better? NO! NOT AT FUCKING ALL!

bruh, 6ms is more than most games' entire shading pipeline cost.

this is the frametime to do frame doubling, and it's "acceptable", on a first person view where you have very limited occlusion, and you don't have normal cinematics if you want to generate more frames it'd get more expensive @LukeTheVideoGamer 6ms for a "post-processing thing" is insane, if you have a game rendering at 16.66ms (60 fps) and you did AppSW you'd go to 22.66 ms so 44 fps (x2) ... 88, this is assuming things go well the only reason it makes sense for Quest is that games REALLY need it, and rendering at 36/45 fps + AppSW is still an improvement over native 90 lol

again, you're talking about reprojection, with 6ms you're essentially negating almost all gains from reprojecting, it would only be usable at very low frame rates, not even 60fps.

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AppSW is the high quality reprojection from Meta, FWIW you have very cheap reprojection that is uh, meh quality, but ~feels better~ than vomiting in your room due to motion sickness quality improvements become harder to get as you want higher and higher tiers of quality, I want DLSS Reprojection because I want it to "feel as good as native", and become a must-enable setting

HBAO+ had a 2.4ms cost on a flagship card when it was introduced, and that was considered insane lol

10:16 PM

Speaking of hbao @exio4 they removed it from witcher 3 rtx edition

10:19 PM

I think you're just confused about what the 6ms means, the gpu doesn't get to render one frame, then chill the next and show the frame in 6ms, it has to render this frame, prepare the next reprojected frame , and still try to render another frame, the 6ms is cutting into the time it has to render the other frame. At 60fps this means more than 33% of the time is spent doing reprojection. (edited)

exio4

AppSW is the high quality reprojection from Meta, FWIW you have very cheap reprojection that is uh, meh quality, but ~feels better~ than vomiting in your room due to motion sickness quality improvements become harder to get as you want higher and higher tiers of quality, I want DLSS Reprojection because I want it to "feel as good as native", and become a must-enable setting

i have no words. not because "i have no argument", but because nothing i can argue will get through to you. you're inconsolable. reprojection as a part of DLSS would be legitimately the worst addition to the GeForce RTX feature stack since RTX Voice. (yes i actually really dislike the idea of RTX Voice, you have so many other solutions that dont require spending $400 on a shitty gaming GPU just for noise cancelling on the microphone))

LukeTheVideoGamer

i have no words. not because "i have no argument", but because nothing i can argue will get through to you. you're inconsolable. reprojection as a part of DLSS would be legitimately the worst addition to the GeForce RTX feature stack since RTX Voice. (yes i actually really dislike the idea of RTX Voice, you have so many other solutions that dont require spending $400 on a shitty gaming GPU just for noise cancelling on the microphone))

Masterful gambit sir.

reprojection is about hitting 240, 480, 1000 hz

and you cant do that without tensor cores to be able to "feel better than native"? or maybe you just dont want to. (edited)

No one has tried. We can only base it on what has previously been done, and so far upscaling with specific hardware has been better, and frame generation with specific hardware has been better, that's kind of the thing about hardware acceleration.

then make a fucking vendor agnostic, hardware accelerated solution like fucking video decode!!! fuck!!!

video encoding isnt hardware agnostic bro

We do it for audio, we do it for video, we do it for textures, we do it for vertex data, software solutions are always inferior, specially at doing them really quickly. Video isn't vendor agnostic, the software needs to work with the hardware.

1

WHATEVER FINE YOU WIN anything to stop this stupid fucking argument honestly (edited)

That's just facts, I don't know what to tell you.

10:26 PM

That was the whole thing with intel's quicksync, it does decode video that exists, and it does create videos that can be decoded by other hardware, but you need to code your software to be aware of their hardware if you want to use it.

Egdarska

That's just facts, I don't know what to tell you.

gpus exist to do gpu things cpus are bad at

don't tell the "run yuzu on the gpu" fella

okay fine i accept that a hardware accelerated solution would be better than something handled more in software. i just really fucking dislike the idea of it being a part of DLSS because knowing nvidia they would find a way to make it work only on a fucking RTX 5090 Ti Super or whatever despite it likely being possible to work just fine on a 3050

LukeTheVideoGamer

okay fine i accept that a hardware accelerated solution would be better than something handled more in software. i just really fucking dislike the idea of it being a part of DLSS because knowing nvidia they would find a way to make it work only on a fucking RTX 5090 Ti Super or whatever despite it likely being possible to work just fine on a 3050

Hey how did Btrfs go? Did you find any game that compressed good?

not yet i kinda fell asleep lmao

10:36 PM

also i havent found a way to get compression working on a btrfs formatted external drive, not easily at least. very very frustrating day all around :p

LukeTheVideoGamer

also i havent found a way to get compression working on a btrfs formatted external drive, not easily at least. very very frustrating day all around :p

You need to add an fstab entry for that drive for the compression, I usually use the LABEL instead of the uuid for those. And if you already moved data to the disk, you will have to do a defrag to get it to compress the existing data, the fedora article I linked a while ago explains this part. (edited)

... but it's an external SSD... wouldnt any kind of defragmenting only harm it? (edited)

LukeTheVideoGamer

... but it's an external SSD... wouldnt any kind of defragmenting only harm it? (edited)

You still need the fstab entry. Doesnt really hurt, just that you will write the data again over for it to compress it When you installed the OS they did the right thing of enabling the compression during install to prevent this issue, other distros you have to do it afterwards with a defrag

10:44 PM

For example for my media partition (which can be a different disk) this is the fstab entry I use: LABEL=MEDIA /media/MEDIA btrfs rw,noatime,nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show,ssd,space_cache=v2,discard=async,compress-force=zstd:1 0 0

im a fucking moron. i dont understand any of this shit anymore.

1

LukeTheVideoGamer

im a fucking moron. i dont understand any of this shit anymore.

Just give it a LABEL to your external ssd with gparted or a similar tool, and use that label to mount it like the example above.

10:48 PM

In your case the PATH for the defrag would be just the one to where you mounted the external SSD. (edited)

lol, i didn't know userbenchmark was paid now

Egdarska

lol, i didn't know userbenchmark was paid now

Didn't know that either

Samueru

Didn't know that either

The testing suite is paid, you can still laugh at the reviews for free

Dang, 13600k is still the best cpu you can buy according to userbenchmark. And 4060 lol. (edited)

Egdarska

Dang, 13600k is still the best cpu you can buy according to userbenchmark. And 4060 lol. (edited)

Sus

@exio4 How does this ranking make you feel?

Userschmenchmark?

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/Vv6jCd rate my userbenchmark approved build

Part List - Intel Core i5-13600K, GeForce RTX 4060, HYTE Y60 Ouro K...

Part List - Intel Core i5-13600K, GeForce RTX 4060, HYTE Y60 Ouro Kronii ATX Mid Tower

Egdarska

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/Vv6jCd rate my userbenchmark approved build

Lol the case

Only the best for the best components

Bonus points for the GPU being a brand I never heard of before

deadlybydsgn

Bonus points for the GPU being a brand I never heard of before

Inno3D has been around for a long while

Inno3D, lol. They aren't really a NA brand (edited)

I guess that’s why

Really long time: https://www.guru3d.com/review/inno3d-geforce-6600-gt-(pcx)-review/

Inno3D GeForce 6600 GT (PCX) Review

It is really amazing how many manufacturers would like to have their 6600 products reviewed, this product is hot ! This week the turn goes to InnoVision / Inno3D.

1:15 AM

Omg they might be even be older than Evga lol http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/innogfmx/index.html

I just chose the scummiest sounding one, i didn't know it was a thing

1

I just haven’t seen them before

‍♂️

I don't even know any more, I'll make fun of some component made by s random string of letters and people will be like you really haven't heard of dhtejfbdk? They've sold ssds for 15 years.

Egdarska

I don't even know any more, I'll make fun of some component made by s random string of letters and people will be like you really haven't heard of dhtejfbdk? They've sold ssds for 15 years.

More like 24 years in this case kek

Egdarska

I don't even know any more, I'll make fun of some component made by s random string of letters and people will be like you really haven't heard of dhtejfbdk? They've sold ssds for 15 years.

Like all of these Amazon resellers

1:49 AM

Probably the coolest thing I've seen the Vision Pro do so far. https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1b5ipu7/i_made_a_vision_pro_app_that_turns_your_apartment/

From the virtualreality community on Reddit: I made a Vision Pro ap...

Explore this post and more from the virtualreality community

The coolest thing I've seen the vision pro do is get idiots to pay $3,500 for it

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2

But it's an investment for what it will be able to do in the future!

Btrfs+zstd:1 saves 20% on disk space for Ace Combat 7

Hello I got my hands on my old phone a poco f1 it's got snap 845 n 8 256 do u think I can like emulate basic 2d games on it (mainly to let kids play it )

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-VK_EXT_descriptor_buffer

Intel Vulkan Driver Lands Descriptor Buffer Support To Reduce Linux...

The VK_EXT_descriptor_buffer extension was made public in November 2022 with Vulkan 1.3.235 while finally this past week Intel's open-source Mesa 'ANV' driver has merged support for this extension

BaronCandy

Hello I got my hands on my old phone a poco f1 it's got snap 845 n 8 256 do u think I can like emulate basic 2d games on it (mainly to let kids play it )

Depends on the game. 2D does not necessarily mean less demanding. Stuff like Undertale will probably work, no clue how much higher you can go

So mario old ones should be ok?

Sonic Mania is a fairly well performing 2D game, but be weary of the Special Stages, they're full 3D and might not perform the greatest on older or weaker phones

it's on netflix btw nvm, not all regions lol (edited)

exio4

it's on netflix btw nvm, not all regions lol (edited)

i'd rather put a fanmade android port made with the RSDKv5(u) decomp than use Netflix since i still own the game that way (twice over! switch and steam for me)

Netflix i simply hate i would rather not play the game than give em money

There are some things Netflix does well, but their criticism is pretty warranted. It's just a little weird to see their arc from the mid-aughts to now.

So, real talk. Does this mean the discord will also shut down? Because I seriously love the discussions in the hardware channel.

Honestly probably will go down I’d imagine. They want Yuzu to not exist and this is the main channel from rheir website. Not to say someone can’t make another, but this one has a lot of history they’d have to remove and scrub for legal reasons

I mean, it might be healthy for my at-work productivity, but I've seriously learned as much about hardware here in 2.5 years than I have since I started tinkering with PC stuff a few decades ago. It really helped catch me up

The hardware channel discord when

I'll miss fighting with y'all over trivial shit

Githubs down. Time to play the titantic music

If only Discord let you talk with people who didn't share servers

Egdarska

I'll miss fighting with y'all over trivial shit

The good old days are even overer

I hate the slow mode

A minute isn’t too bad

i mean you have 1000s of people just meming in general so

Welp, there it is in #announcements. The wording makes me wonder about Citra (edited)

Just wanna have one last go. @exio4 i just found out that ipads have had usb c for years, what the fuck, why is apple so shit?

Egdarska

Just wanna have one last go. @exio4 i just found out that ipads have had usb c for years, what the fuck, why is apple so shit?

But not all of them! Heh. Pencil support is also all over the place.

7:25 PM

Seriously though, I'm going to miss this channel and occasionally wonder how some of you folk are doing. There's lots of interesting commentary and knowledge that bounces around in here

Gen is going wild. Thanks for all the hardware info guys (edited)

where are we all going to hangout now?

anyone make a server for this hardware channel please

deadlybydsgn

Welp, there it is in #announcements. The wording makes me wonder about Citra (edited)

the announcement advised dev for both is being discontinued

Guess that's due to them being under the same LLC umbrella. Dang But yeah, if anybody starts a new hardware server somewhere, I'd join to hear people argue over things and occasionally ask questions (edited)